Fighters Guild quest that involve editing Vvardenfell, yet has its place in existing lore.

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Undertaker's picture
Undertaker
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So, I think some Fighters Guild quests, possibly those of Baan Malur, should involve a plot of establishing Fighters Guild hall in Gnisis.

Why? Because there is no Fighters Guild hall in Gnisis and there is a book ingame that says there IS Fighters Guild hall in Gnisis. The book also mentions Erer Darothil who's master trainer of Illusion in game, so we can believe it's not work of a fiction.

Book is titled "Illusion" or "bookskill_illusion2" and here are some quotes.

(...)
“No,” said Silverthorn firmly. “I only have time to learn one spell. I have to kill Egroamaro, collect the award, and be back in Gnisis as quickly as possible. My wife worries when I'm away.”
(...)
His wife Liah was beside herself with worry. “All I could do night after night is toss and turn. I kept imagining you burned to ashes by that battlemage, and where would that leave me? Do we have enough gold that I could support myself if you, Saint Seryn let it not be so, were killed during one of these jaunts? I don't think so. Why couldn't you get a nice position at the Fighters Guild right here in town?
(...)

There would be some explanation how Fighters Guild hall in Gnisis got destroyed in fire or something and there is a need of rebuilding it, recruiting new members etc.
 

Kevaar's picture
Kevaar
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Hmm. I agree the quote in the book could use some attention, but we've had a pretty firm policy of not editing content in the vanilla game.

Instead, I'd propose establishing a Fighter's Guild in one of the other cities in the Baan Maur region (maybe Baan Malur itself), with the NPCs chattering about the failed Gnisis venture and will this one turn out similarly? Enter PLOT.

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Templar Tribe
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I could actually imagine that being a good plot line; trying to start up a fighter's guild in somewhere near Baan Malur, and having it start to take off only to wither and die (kind of playing on the whole feeling of hopelessness Morrowind has going for it). Perhaps the recruits you find to help with the start up have really good back stories and you actually learn to like them, and then they all die on an assault by the Redoran as a warning to the Imperials. Not out-right slaughter, but maybe a set up. Like you find their bodies next to some wild animals and at first glance it seems like they fell victim on a mission but once the player looks closer they find that there was foul play involed.

Maybe at one point the Redoran try to pin the murders on the rogue Redoran in the Hlaalu territory, but it ends up that it really was some Redoran in Baan Malur. When you try to get justice for the murders in Old Ebonheart or whatever, the head of the FG basically just says there's no real difinitive proof and his hands are tied? Not sure, just spit-balling here.

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RyanS
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The wiping out of an imperial guild is an interesting concept, though I doubt the Redoran would be so bold as to do it. House Redoran is known to be a bit friendlier to the empire compared to almost every other house except the Hlaalu, and I'd also imagine it would be fairly open to a new fighter's guild, considering the house's own warriorlike traditions. If we were to include a plotline like that, it'd likely be reserved for the Telvanni or Dres.

Despite all of that, I do think the opening of a new fighter's guild could work well in the Velothis district. I'd imagine Baan Malur would already have one from the beginning, so it'd likely be a separate, smaller city. Perhaps Kogomar or Kogotel? 

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Templar Tribe
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I am not so sure about that, while the Redoran aren't entirely anti-Imperial, they do have a pretty deep past with the empire and have some traditions they hold pretty close to them as far as being more aligned with the Temple than other houses; I could easily see some councilors in Baan Malur being offended by the opening of an Imperial guild so close to them, and one or more of them doing something about it.

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RyanS
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I do agree that the Redoran hold a deep grudge against the empire like the other great houses/Tribunal Temple. The main issue I see is that there are other great houses that hold substantially broader hatreds towards the Imperials, even to the point where the aformentioned role of attacking an Imperial guild would seem out of place in House Redoran's hands. A mass murder also would seem incompatible for a house much focused on honor and the like.

Overall I feel that there are many better scenarios where this event could play out, particularly in the Dres or Telvanni lands.

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Templar Tribe
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Well, that depends. Venym is very outwardly aginst the PC ever being named Nerevarine, and you must kill him to gain the respect of the Redoran. That being said, some of the councilors think he is too extreme, yes. But I would ask you to keep in mind that they recently (very) come over from Baan Malur, and I'm sure that Venym had more than a few cohorts that he left behind to have them "keep the status quo" as it were, and with a giant power vaccum the ideals of Redoran heratige may have been elevated to the levels of willingness to kill people. I'm not suggesting there is a mass murder and the Redoran are going around killing anything that isn't a Dunmer, but what I am saying is that if there were say 3 Fighter's Guild upstarts that were found out by some councilors in Baan Malur, there could have been a fake contract put out by them to lure these 3 people out into remote wilderness and then the attack was done.

In seclusion, in secret. At the same time, however, the PC is an exponentially lucky person and somehow stumbles upon the bodies and some evidence that leads to the councilors, who in turn try to lay the blame on the rogue Redoran who are in Hlaalu territory ("Us? No, we would never do such a thing. But, you know, old Kishmmar of the disbanded Yvethmar Clan has been roaming the hills ever since the Hlaalu took over parts of old Redoran terrioty with a group of his old kinsmen. They're basically a bandit group now, just dillusional to the fact because they still are stuck in their glory days.") but it finally turns out the councilors did do the crime, but no one can really do anything about it because red tape and etc etc. It sort of makes sense, really.

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Gnomey
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As far as the Gnisis guild is concerned, I suggest a fairly straightforward explanation: the Gnisis barracks was probably originally a Redoran garrison, but back before Dagoth Ur began to draw attention to himself and Venim moved the capital to Ald-ruhn, so it was very neglected if not empty. The Ordinators in the Temple protected the Ash Face itself, and that was that. At some point, perhaps even before Vvardenfell was opened for settlement, a fighters guild branch established itself in the barracks, and found a niche protecting locals, caravaners and pilgrims winding through the convoluted paths of West Gash. The membership was probably largely a mix of Orcs and Dunmer.
At some point after Vvardenfell was opened for settlement, as the Empire was trying to fortify the island against the threat of Dagoth Ur, building forts near the major settlements, a garrison was established at Gnisis, perhaps in part due to its position at an opening of the Inner Sea across from the major port of Blacklight (to the Imperials), and perhaps in part due to the local Fighters Guild already having established a steady though not outright cordial relationship with the locals. Between the Redoran and the Imperial Legion paying closer attention to the area and striving to keep it safe, the Gnisis branch lost most of its purpose and most of it got absorbed into the Legion, with a few remaining members scattering to other guildhalls.

As far as the Velothis Fighters Guild is concerned, I do think it provides an effective perspective for exploring the relations between the local Orcs, Nords, Dunmer and Imperials, which would not always be hostile, and which would at times work on a basis of give-and-take, but would often be strained to some degree. A few bad-egg Redoran willing to bend their own rules to oust the outlanders would fit into that theme, as well as resulting tensions between the local Legion and House Redoran, which otherwise usually do manage to get along in some form. (It's worth mentioning that, according to vanilla dialogue on the topic 'Fort Darius', "The Empire built a fort near Gnisis village with the help of House Redoran. [...]") On the other end, as in The Eastern Provinces Impartially Considered, elements within the Legion may be contributing to the tensions as well, justifying some hate towards outlanders and making the Fighters Guild's work so much more difficult. That's not even considering possible flaws within the guild itself.

As opposed to the Telvannis Fighter Guild, which has never found a proper foothold in the district, Velothis has been under heavily Imperial influence at the very least since the Armistice, so the Fighters Guild probably has a long history there, and a lot of really high-level and competent fighters. (Again, not ruling out possible flaws in the membership, but I don't think lack of competence should be one of them on the whole). I think we could expand on background information on the vanilla Fighters Guild, (Persius Mercius being the former Master of the Fighters Guild in Vvardenfell with Hrundi as his second-in-command, which may have been around the time, and perhaps even before, Vvardenfell was opened for (new) settlement), both to tie Vvardenfell and the mainland together as well as to provide fertile soil for characterization of TR NPCs. Perhaps we could have a few former fighters from the Gnisis guild, who operated under the ultimate leadership of Persius Mercius and might talk a bit both about the Fighters Guild branches in Vvardenfell and Velothis as well as expand on Gnisis' background. Perhaps the Velothis leadership worked closely with Persius Mercius, or was at odds with him.

Spectre's picture
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The option to sabotage the efforts to create the new fighter's guild could serve as a good RP opportunity for those neglected anti-Imperial players. For the player to be able to make or break the project (and for the player to be necessary in making it, regardless), I think it has to be in a precarious spot of some kind.

Possibly, local Dunmer are filibustering it by messing with shipments of materials or something like that. With the latter, the player would have the option to join the bandits filibustering the project, and after a raid or two, the Fighter's Guild gives up, and the guild isn't built, or stopping the raid as planned (with help from Fighter's Guild members, making a group-on-group fight.) When the player arrives on the scene, it should be clear that the Fighter's Guild has been struggling with this for some time, and is running out of the funds/morale to keep going much longer, and accordingly needs some fresh blood in the mix. Enter the player.

Or maybe the Camonna Tong has intervened in a way that demands some guile from the player to get around (or some collusion to sink the FG's operation for good.) (And yeah, this is far out-of-range for the Cammona Tong without moving the Fighter's Guild down into Hlaalu territory, but Orvas's brotherhood with Vadam tells me that operating in Hlaalu is a preference, not a cage.) (Not that I'm dismissive of moving to Hlaalu, but I don't know enough to make even a probing call on that issue.) In general, the power and influence of the Commona Tong goes underillustrated anyway; this would serve to nicely enrich the Commona Tong without polluting the Redoran by putting them in a role unsuited for them.