[doemaarwat]

Regarding Lud’s Idea

I really like some of your ideas, including the scandal that will greatly embarrass the imperials. I think the imperials are not really interested in meddling in local politics, so forcing them to become involved by means of a scandal seems like a very good idea. However, I don’t really like the idea of allowing the IAS to play a major role in the Mq, since they have no political influence, and no political motives.
The idea of a fanatic imperial archaeologist attempting to uncover a dwemmer artifact from Necron ancestral tombs is good in my opinion, since it seems sufficient reason for House Indoril and the temple to become really upset (especially considering the archaeologist is the son/daughter of a local imperial ruler).

I really like the idea of the Boethiah Cult playing a large role in causing this scandal, and would really like to see it play a large role in this political turmoil. What if they aided the archaeologist in his tomb raid? They could suggest the idea to him/her, give directions for an alternative route to reach the artifact, or in some other way.
The Cult would gain from this because of the scandal it will cause, and the resulting political instability. The Cult can ensure he/she is known to have stolen it by tipping somebody of (anomalously ofcours). The archaeologist could trust the Cult, because they could simply remain anonymous, and that the archaeologist would not be able te recognize the cult, because of her lack of knowledge of Morrowind (he/she thinks it’s fine to steal something from an ancestral tomb, because the objects ended up there in an illicit way, against imperial law that forbids trade in dwemmer objects). It would make since if the archaeologist cannot rely on the IAR to support her in her tomb raid, so it would make sense if he/she would accept help from a third party.

It has been argued that the Boethiah cult is very vulnerable, and therefore cannot really act, however, I would argue against that. I agree that they can’t perform openly hostile actions, like suggested in my concept (the attacking of a village), Because the temple and House Indoril are military superior to them. However, they can be fairly protected by:
-acting anonymously, and subtle (or pretending to be someone else)
-having hidden bases of operation
-having most of these bases in Telvanni territory

If those bases are in telvanni territory, the temple and House Indoril can’t send a large force out to destroy it, because house Telvanni would not allow a large armed force in their territory.

This could also allow opportunities for house Telvanni (is Master Mithras the only Telvanni presence on map 2?) to use the Cult as a tool. They could refuse armed troop in their territory, on the bases that it’s a threat to them, but in secret to prevent them for destroying the cult. In exchange, they could ask for a service (all in secret of course) from the Boethiah cult. For example, what if Master Mithras desires a certain artifact from the Necron ancestral tomb? The archaeologist could be asked to to take it (he/she could be told that it’s not very valuable and that it does not really belong to the Indoril family, so in return for the information, the archaeologist is asked to “return” this small trinket”.

Another way for the Telvanni-Boethiah cult deal would be that Master Mithras discovered a major base of operation, and threaten to reveal it to the temple (and give permission for passage for Temple troops) unless they give in to his demands.

Could somebody give me some info on Vaerin by the way? (or a link would do fine)

[blackbird]

The leader of Tel mothrivra is Dralothas Omothran. His personality has been created by TF and has been detailed a bit by me.

I don't know if house Indoril or the temple sold tel mothrivra to the Telvanni. Tel Mothrivra is lying at the north op map 2. This city is just like Ranyon ruhn a velothi city within telvanni territory.
I haven't made a dialogue topic about master Vaerin.

Dralothas Omothran is the new patron of the town. He lives in the old monastery which is protected by a door with a high lock and only those who have permission may enter. The monastery is being built that way that it fits a telvanni 'lord'.

The local priest almost hate him. The main reasons are: He had to leave the old monastery (his former home) and Dralothas Omothran is specialised in conjuration (read necromancy). Some skeletons are walking in the monastery. This is blasphemous for every member of the Temple and house Indoril. Dralothas Omothran has also no respect for the temple and shows it.

There is also a telvanni tower in Tel Mothrivra. This tower is occupied by Kammus Uvayn. He is the apprentice of Dralothas Omothran and has also a skeleton walking in his tower. He is a cynical or a bit snobbish seperatist. He dislikes the imperials and other races and wants them gone. He wants to become a magician which should be powerful enough to drive those Imperials away. However he doens't like House Indoril and the Temple very much.

[Lud]

@BC:It's really just people being worried about Daedra worshippers. Particularly in Necrom, I would see the Temple overreacting to such things. Remember that Necrom has been a holy place for ancestor worship since before the Tribunal. I reckon that that head priest of Necrom is aware of how worship of the Tribunal usurped that of the Daedra and as such would be quick to crack down on such heretics.

@doewaarmat:
-Mithras doesn't play a role here, he's the nice cuddly Telvanni lord. Vaerin is the Temple-hater who uses the cult.
-The IAS doesn't play a political role in the quests, they're mostly a vehicle for the start of Imperial quests. Their quests could even be optional, if you have done something else.
-I don't see the Boethian cult as causing much of anything. The scare about them is mostly Imperials drawing the blame away from themselves, they didn't really have a role in what happened in Necrom. They would just do small-fry shit, arsing around with petty plots and be manipulated by Vaerin. (He's much smarter and more powerful than them)
-I disagree about the Telvanni hiding them. Only Vaerin has any use for them, and that's only in selling their lives to fuck with the Temple.
-Personally, I like the idea of portraying them as fairly nice and ensuring that people are capable of identifying with them. The talk about the threat they pose would be hot air, imo.
-I have a few reasons for this:
1) It's the Sacred Lands we're in here. The Temple would be extra-vigilant about powerful cults.
2) I want to contrast them with the Molag Bal cult, who'll be spreading fear amongst the people of Telvannis and having much more reach. This will emphasize the lawlessness of Telvannis.
3) It's unexpected. People will hear about this "evil cult" and imagine an underground network of informants and agents controlling everything. In reality, they'd be more similar to the witches of Salem. They won't be innocent, but I want the player to feel regret when he finds out that they were all butchered.
-I do like the idea of blackmailing Vaerin with info about the cult and his involvement. I'd see this as being Telsaran blackmailing Vaerin.

Check out the map1 major & factional thread for info on the councillors.

@Blackbird: Could you add topics about how Omothran is Vaerin's former apprentice along with some cryptic statements of gratitude towards him from Omothran?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Dralothas Omothran is a young telvanni lord who took over Tel Mothrivra when the telvanni bought it from the temple. He does have ties to Vaerin, but isn't really a lap dog. I sort of pictured him in a similar role to Divayath Fyr in that he is respected, but not on the council. He would very much like a seat, but he is ATM more concerned with consolidating his power in the town. He, like any other good telvanni, wants take out darconis, but his contribution should be minimal.

His efforts in consolidating his power currently consists of getting people away from the temple. He periodically tells the people such things as "if your gods are so powerful why don't they come here and give you your village back." By creating this atmosphere if despair for the temple, the temple population is waning. There is a disgruntled priest, but he probably should be killed in an early misc quest. (perhaps the player even has to get him to follow them out into the plaza before they do it) [note: This should happen regardless of whether the player does it. If the player doesn't do it then the apprentice should.]

A Retaking of Tel Mothrivra would, by the time it would be happening, require some sort of miracle that could be falsely attributed to the tribunal. Omothran will paint anything short of this petty politics with the people of the town merely as pawns and the people being either converted from the temple or in absolute despair are in the frame of mind to believe this. Also... you know... it IS true. The temple isn't above such utilitarian tactics, but it should in no way be easy.

Who is the Telvanni lord who has defacto control of fort windmoth? is this decided yet?

[Lud]

The Eldale/Rathra duo, I presume. It's those two that are the main driving force behind undermining the Imperials (MQ, Darconis Gambit) and that kind of shit is right up Rathra's street. Nobody else really takes much interest in beating on the Imperials.

Regarding Vaerin & Omothran, it's important to note that these guys are natural allies; they both hate the Temple. In my mind, the two of them are a faction (Like Rathra & Eldale)
Though it is important that Vaerin has the leading role, (He is a higher rank, after all) this guy can be a bit more of a player if you like. He would have received help from Vaerin in getting his place in Tel Mothrivra. As far as comparing him to Fyr goes; remember that Fyr could have one if he wanted. The Vf council is very different to that of the Telvannis. Fyr is also the super-mega-uber-wizard.

[Nomadic1]

The whole reason I could get Tel Mothrivra built was if it was a bum city ruled by a bum lord. The story o the place is as follows:

- It was an ancient Temple-run fortress to guard against Akaviri attacks and the Telvanni
- A monastery, possibly dedicated to Sotha Sil or St Llothis, was built there
- Old fortress fell into ruins, monastery thrived
- Before or after the above: Akaviri invasion. Either way, monastery declines
- Third era: few dithering old monks left. No economy or strategic value to the Temple left. Temple sees no point in keeping the place any longer. Offers to sell the city
- Dralothras Omothran, an ambitious and wealthy Telvanni (though personally strong and rich, is not respected or noticed) buys Tel Mothrivra so he can finally be a Telvanni lord

The above is the only real way to tie up all the threads of the story together. It can be added on, for example having Vaerin assisting Omothran in purchasing the town, and Omothran being Vaerin's former apprentice. Omothran, logically, wants to get on the council even though he has no chance. It is the next step. Vaerin would definately use this desire to further his own plans.

EDIT: I like Lud's idea for the Map 2 MQ and Boethiah Cult.

[Gnomey]

I always thought that the Daedric cults, though naturally not lead by their god, have strong ties to him, what with summoning him etc., and this is the major base of Morrowind, and Morrowind is one of the few places where people can openly worship Daedra. I do not think that Boethiah would let such an important headquarters in Tamriel go to waste, even if it is full of weaklings. I have nothing against their being weak, (actually, I really like the idea), but I don't think that they should completely die out either.

What I suggest: Boethiah knew of the attack and told the leader of the cult. The leader picks the most powerful cult members and leaves under the guise of doing something for Boethiah. (By "most powerful members" I mean most powerful in relation to the other cultists). The rest are slaughtered by the temple who think that they have killed them all. The player may or may not notice that a few have gone missing, but either way they won't be rearing their weak little heads for a long while. (As in, as far as TR is concerned, only if we make Morrowind for another engine, and by then it will probably be a completely different cult anyway, even if we do end up adding them).

Actually, is there even anything wrong with a cult of Boethiah? To come to think of it he's a good Daedra, and unless there was solid proof of bad behavior attacking them would probably cause a scandal and would be a really, really undiplomatic move. The Tribunal specifically said that the Good Daedra are anticipations of the Tribunal, if only to appease the more traditional Dunmer. If we do have a raid, as in killing everyone, it should either be led by a very radical priest or the Boethiah cult had to have done something really bad in a very public way. Just my opinion.

And by the way, all of the Daedric cults will be playable, right? Because at the moment the Boethiah cult just seems like a plot ploy. Going with my a-few-members-escape idea, I'd assume that in the end Boethiah would decide that the player was the strongest member and let him choose four (for example, or something more like three if the cult is as small as it is weak) cult members who would go with him, not including the current cult leader, who is probably known by the temple and whose disappearance they would notice. He would then have to find a good new spot to hide in and, perhaps, rebuild/build the shrine there.

Edit: I just wanted to mention that my earlier idea doesn't require the Boethiah cult to be powerful, if it seems like it. They just have to be good at underhanded dealings and, in the end, the only thing that is really insured is their safety, and their having the item that they were looking for. The player and the TG would probably do most of the work while they just try to keep in the shadows while rousing the factions up.

[Lud]

On the Boethian cult:
As far as the cultists go, I would think that the Temple would be quick to crack down on anybody that wasn't part of either the IC or the Temple. If you look at religious war in general, it's not like people tend to go easy on each other just because they share some beliefs. Particularly in Necrom, I'd see the temple as fearful of Daedra worship and eager to spill their blood.

As far as the playability of the cult goes, I would be in favour of giving them a quest or two, but it wouldn't be a priority, in my opinion. Similar to the IAS, I'd view them as joinable in the same way as the blades are in the original game.

As far as their objectives go, I really wouldn't like to see these guys being victorious. This is the Temple heartland and so they should fail miserably in everything they try to do. Boethian cultists trying to survive attacks from the MB ones might be a good idea.

On Tel Mothrivra:
In order for the Temple to be angry over the loss of this place, there would need to have been some underhand dealings in its loss.

EDIT:
On the main meat of the MQ:
-The part that appeals most to me is the most freeform part. It's set in Necrom and it revolves around the dunmer anger at what this Imperial kid has done. I see the foreign quarter as somewhat of an Imperial embassy in Necrom and the dunmer might be tempted to bring some "righteous justice" to bear on the godless imperials. Possible implementation would be partly based on my "variable quest system". There would be a number of quests, but also events and additional events relying on such abstract concepts as public opinion, etc.
Quests:
-Influencing each of the House Reps to push for a certain action. The player could influence where the anger of the dunmer was directed.
-Redoran: establishing the truth of what happened, whether the dude was actually brainwashed, etc.
-Telvanni: unsure whose faction the Telvanni rep would fall into, dunno what to do here.
-Dres: wants the Imperial's head. That simple. The player can't influence him, but will get a taste of the Dres style and beliefs.
-Indoril: would be quick to blame the cultists, but could be persuaded if shown the right evidence.
-Hlaalu: this guy wouldn't be as pro-imperial as most Hlaalu, he'd be trying to get ahead by playing the factions against each other.
Redoran, Hlaalu and probably Telvanni would all be influencable, allowing the player to change how the Necrom leadership responds. (I'd see all these guys as having a role in a Necrom committee of some description, allowing them some oversight powers, etc)

The citizens would also be furious, with the player having a choice in how to deal with beatings of Imperials and attacks on Imperial interests, with dialogue choices allowing them the choice of whether to help stir things up, to deflect criticism towards the cult or to try to keep a lid on anger.
These choices would be implemented in a few ways:
-quests that would offer a choice in what way it ended, pro, or anti violence, etc
-quests that if completed would create more violence
-dialogue choices that would influence people's beliefs

After a certain amount of time, the quest would move towards a resolution, with things reaching a head in one direction or another. The player would have the choice of another couple of quests in whatever direction they chose and the distribution of powers in the map would change as a result.

[Nomadic1]

Re: Boethiah Cult
Boethiah doesn't seem to care too much for his followers. If you read the Invocation of Azura (?), he enjoys the girl accidentally killing her brother. He would probably take the opinion that if his followers aren't strong enough to survive, they don't deserve to. I can't imagine him assisting anybody in the cult at all.

Re Tel Mothrivra
The Temple might be angry about what ended up happening to the monastery and the evicted monks. The religious books and stuff, which wasn't salvaged by the old guy, would have been burnt. It was probably inevitable the village would be sold to the Telvanni in the end, and while the Temple might have been ripped off a little I don't think there would be any reason at the sale itself to cause resentment.

Re: Necrom
Maybe Necrom is ruled by a Grand Council of sorts - one representative from each of the Great Houses and a few Temple big wigs (boss of the Necrom Temple, boss of the Necrom Ordinators, boss of the catacombs) The Temple people might be too busy running the city to actually deal with the matter in detail leaving the Great House people free to influence their decisions on the matter, with the PC influencing the choices of the Great House people.

It might be funny if the PC can buy the Hlaalu guy's position on the issue, but then if the PC does something wrong (or didn't do something right) he just takes the PC's money and takes a contrary position in the end. The Telvanni guy might not care in the least.

[Gnomey]

[Andres Indoril]

I thought I would randomly mention that there is a small Tribunal temple in Hlersis as well... Might be just a small non-quest giving one?