[Gnomey]

[Haplo]

Please see MMMowSkwoz' last post in this thread immediately, before you use the save your progress using the latest TR_Data:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21429&start=80

[MMMowSkwoz]

If you've already saved your file with the most recent version of TR_Data (1st March), the replacement is slightly more complicated:

- Download the TR_Data_intermediate.esm from the other thread and rename it TR_Data
- Locate the last backup you made which was dependent on the old TR_Data (January)
- Open this file using the version of TR_Data you just downloaded
- Find all references of any Yilgamseh books in your claim region. Note down their locations and which book it was
- Now close the CS, remove the version of TR_Data you just downloaded
- Open up your most recent file using the most recent version of TR_Data
- Go to each of the locations where a Yilgamseh book was removed (the ones you noted down) and fill the gap with the appropriate Gospel (see list in other thread).

You only need to do this if you've already saved your file with the newest TR_Data loaded. If you haven't done this, please follow the instructions in the other thread.

>Other thread<

Sorry about this.

[blackbird]

I have some points of notice:
1. Tomaril manor upper chambers, upper floor. There is a desk and maybe atable blocking the doors.
2. I've posted a border match issue which I had created. http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21205&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40
Maybe you should agree with Nomadic to tackle this issue.
3. There are lvl 25 witchhunters which are hostile (attack rating 100). Those guys are annoying. I suggest you remove, unless you have a better idea.

[Theo]

Thank you for your notice blackbird. I will look at it. Currently top 3 rows are done (45%), but I am busy writing an article, so probably I will not be able to complete this until next month.

[Haplo]

It's now the month after next; how goes progress?

[Theo]

Very slowly, I am very busy, but I at least try to keep pace with other modders working on map 3 to which this claim now belongs. The northern half is finished including such places as Akamora. Also I had to remove the exterior passage and place it in an interior which was a pain in an ass. All that remains to be done is Dun Akafel, the souther steppes and detailing the southeastern rocks. Still a lot of work.
I also had to slightly modify bordering cells of neighbour claims to make this claim border them smoothly. I will probably post the whole bunch and the redundant cells can be cleansed away. I am going to switch the progress bar to 70%

[blackbird]

What do you mean with 'I had to remove the exterior passage and place it in an interior which was a pain in an ass.'?
The only thing I can say about is that I didn't change much after I downloaded kebra's work, beside detailing, adding and fixing some parts.

[Theo]

Well, I remember consensus about this was that the passage had to be moved to interior, while some minor passages were kept. I was asking specificaly for this in this thread and got an approval from Haplo.
I too do not change much to Kebra's amazing exterior work, but I simply had to remove some of his wild ideas like trees growing from rocks in funny angles, extensive exterior tunnels and mixture of 5!!! (GL,WG,AI,MH,TR_Oaks) different kinds of trees in one small area consisting of 3!!! cells, while everywhere else in the region, bordering to this claim only proper GL trees are being used.
So I am more fixing and tuning down some parts, while detailing others, like is the southeast of the claim.
Considering that such places as Narsis, Riverbridge and Blacklight had to be rationalized and Ouada-Garidur and the Kebra's canyon city removed it is not such a crime that I plan to turn this into more standard looking, though still amazing exterior by replacing major inconsistensies.
If you think this is something should not be done, your's version still can be used instead of mine, but I am confident I can provide comparably nice exterior, keeping major Kebra's jewels and achievements, but making sure the final result does not punch into one's eyes so much.

[Hemitheon]

Would you plan on removing or redoing the acropolis? I have been arguing for that change for a while.

[Haplo]

[Nomadic1]

The Logoth Mouth in Map 4, just south of Verarchen Hall. It's built over a canyon of lava.

[Haplo]

No consensus was ever reached about that. Despite it being a crappy name and for some reason people not liking it, the "inhabited cliff" part of the work should stay, if without the lava or on such a grandiose scale.

[Theo]

Canyon city: I am sorry, I thought it was going to be removed, though I would be unhappy about it. It is good if it could stay.
And yes, the Dun Akafel acropolis kinda sucks, but as Dun Akafel is older then Kebra's work and is somehow considered TR jewel I do not plan to implement any major changes to it.

[Yeti]

I agree with Hemi. If the acropolis in Dun Akafell uses the temple of Mournhold, than it should be removed and changed. Theres no way that the home of a living Godess should have aduplicate anywhere.

I'm sure it can be redone without wrecking Dun Akafell and made to be better.

[Hemitheon]

All I ever wanted was the removal of the sewer meshes. I could give you the long version of why they should be removed, using images and crap, but I won't.

Here's the short version: MH_Sewer came from the intermediary period of rebuilding and was not a contemporary style of Old Mournhold/Indoril. Since the OM set has been a fav of mine for years, I have studied it enough to give you a rough timeline for the rebuilding of Mournhold--the sewer set comes after MD's attack, meaning after the beginnings of Sotha Sil's reconstruction of the city, meaning it was not a contemporary style, but rather an offshoot reusing some motifs but adopting newer ones as well. Instead of paving the wreckage over and starting from scratch, the architects build in, under, through, around, and over the ruins (thereby creating the argument that they were contemporary). Then the surface city was built using Sotha Sil's designs and voila an Indoril facelift. That's around 1/3 of the long version. The other 2/3's can also prove that the OM set is directly connected to House Indoril, a belief TR has ignored.

[Theo]

So what if I finished only the mountaineous part and left Dun Akafel to Hemi to do in his liking. I think he would be the right person to fix that, not me. I am more into cliffs, canyons and forests than OM ruins, because I know not how to work with that set.
Would you agree to do that?

[Hemitheon]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Theo, but I'm not an exterior modder. I'm sure you'll do an excellent job.

[Yeti]

wait, is the Temple of Almaelexia in Mournhold used here in Dun Akafell, or did I read something wrong?

[Hemitheon]

It was indeed, Yeti. It's buried under the hillside and has a large crystal in the middle of its courtyard because House Indoril are suddenly into crystals.

[Yeti]

Then I definately stand by removing it.

[Nomadic1]

It's the Old Mournhold temple of Almalexia, not the (new) Mournhold temple of Almalexia (in case there is confusion).

[Yeti]

There's an old mournhold temple? Okay sorry I haven't finished Tribunal yet so I've probabily never seen it.

[Theo]

OK. Here is an update. (I had to merge this with surrounding claims so here comes the whole map2-3 without Necrom). Cells with red vertex mark still need detailing. I am currnetly working on that rivermouth.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Hey Theo, I see you're still using an old version of Data. Can you do the Yilgamseh replacement before changing to the newest version of Data please? Here's how:

1. Delete your current TR_Data.esm file
2. Download the TR_Data_intermediate.esm file (from this post)
3. Rename it TR_Data.esm
4. Load up your claim .esp in the CS using this new version of TR_Data
4. For the Yilgamseh books VI and IX, do search and replace to replace it with the appropriate book:
TR_bk_YilgamsehVolumeVI -> TR_bk_GospelofSaintSeryn
TR_bk_YilgamsehVolumeIX -> TR_bk_GospelofSaintAralor
6. Save your file
7. Delete this TR_Data.esm file (the one you just downloaded and renamed)
8. Download the latest version of TR_Data from the site as normal
9. Load up your claim .esp in the CS using this newest version of Data, save, and continue modding.

[Theo]

Oh, thank you. This must have escaped my attention.
EDIT: Silly question - where do I download the latest TR_DATA file. In the appropriate thread there are several fixes and updates but I can find no recentmost version in there.

[MMMowSkwoz]

[Theo]

Ah!

[Haplo]

Theo - By Map2-3, what do you mean? What all does this encompass?

[Hemitheon]

Which also means that all OM fortresses in Maps 1,2,3,4 and 5 were once in the control of House Indoril, extending their borders north beyond Baan Malur in the west and Llothanis in the east.

Also, our former Head of Lore argued that the motifs found on the OM style were not indicative of Indoril, but were generic like velothi. For this reason, there are OM ruins on every map, except 6, which hasn't received detailing attention, but I'm sure we'll find some.

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21232&start=40

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Haplo needs to stop saying things authoritatively solely for the purpose of being defensive.

What he actually meant to say was that we don't really care what you have to say. It has been decided that it is what it is and we aren't going to change it because of some bullshit thing that you don't even bother to post.


One of the things I truly hate is when people leave things vague with the intent of getting people to inquire further. It shows a great deal of insecurity and an annoying need for attention.

I trust sload's lore over yours any day of the week.

final note: I didn't really want to make this post, but I am tired of haplo being authoritatively wrong, and I am tired of Hemi being so needy. JEEZE GUYS! COME ON!

Haplo Edit - Actually I meant to say what I meant to say. And what I said was House Indoril & the OM set are related because the Indoril built stuff in OM style. Sooooo I'm right. And Hemi it doesn't mean anything beyond what I said.

[Sload]

Your former head of lore doesn't give a shit about that pedantic, obnoxious, tight-assed bullshit that you are always fucking whining about because it doesn't fucking matter. This is not lore, it is idiotic, asinine nonsense that no one in their right mind has any time for.

I thought you left, Hemitheon.

[Theo]

@Haplo: By map 2-3 I mean those southern parts of map2 detailing claims that were moved to map 3, except Necrom claim. (4S - Lud, 5S - Me, 7S - Nomadic and 8 - Kebra).

Personally I would prefer not to do anything with Dun Akafell at all, not so much because of lore reasons, but because the exterior sucks perhaps the most of the whole area (and I am not speaking about Dragon Nest Inn now), so drastic changes would have to be done, but I don feel fit to implement them.

Dun Akafell is about five times shittier then (for example) original Akamora was, before Kebra decided to remake it from scratch. However I am hesitant to make drastic changes to it out of respect to the it's creator and it's sentimental value to TR. (I know, it's silly!)

You decide whether and how Dun Akafell should be fixed or remade and how. I will probably just finish fixing the mountainous part and pass this 50-cell behemoth consisting of perplexing terrain full of bugs and tons of crap to someone else. Finishing 80% of this is gargantuan amount of work will be a sufficient accomplishment on my part already.

[Haplo]

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards a bottom-up redesign of Dun Akafell. The only part of it that is considered a jewel of TR is simply the fact that it exists; architecturally and aesthetically it's a complete mess. As far as who could do it, I think blackbird could do good things with the space.

[Haplo]

Oops, I forgot to ask in my last post, Theo- how much is left of the mountainous part?

[Theo]

I did some work on it, so now there are just about 6 mouintaneous cells that need major revision. There are 12 cells of plains and Dun Akafel, which I didn't intend to work on originaly, but now I have started redoing Dun Akafel (I have stored the old version though). That means 30 cells of 48 of this gargantuan claim should be already finished including Akamora (and not including some needed detailing in the surrounding areas - about another 6 cells). I intend to bring this to perfection until end of August.

[Theo]

I am somehow overwhelmed with Real Life now. So I ask politely for revoking of this claim as I will leave TR for a while (six months or so). (Will I ever finish some job for TR?)

There is not much cells left in this claim that need attention (Including Dun Akafel, I have mostly marked them by red vertex shading, it is the southwestern part of the Kebra's claim), but still they are the most intriguing.

Still, I am a little bit afraid that the person after me will not give them the attention the plainy cells really need, but nobody cannot be replaced and if I have the feeling this area needs still some work I can do it once I return.

I have tried my own version of DA, but it sucks even more then the previous one, so you can revert to the old one or remake it from scratch. Nomadic or Hemi would be great for this.

I will be looking forward to the progress TR will make, while I am gone. So good luck and do not forget to clean this file, I am not very competent at this and always screw something up.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Hope you can make it back soon Theo.

[Haplo]

Poppycock; every file you upload is as good as a finished piece of work. Without your work, we'd be hundreds of modding hours behind where we are now. Revoked by user request.

[blackbird]

As promised, I'll redo Dun Akafell. I could claim this now, but after I've completed Dun Akafell I'll give this claim back. I think I'm in no position of completing the rest of the claim, because Theo was fixing my work.