[Aeven]

It may appear Almalexia is the new Necrom. This place is hell. Nonetheless, this is coming along.

I am missing one or two interiors that have been reworked: Alma Rula palace, and the new Indoril Council House, but that one is claimed by Lud, who also dropped this and has been gone for 2 months.

[The Greatness]

I would never describe their wares as meager, just working man's grub if you know what I mean. I was thinking of London markets when I suggested the porrer markets, although that probably doesn't help you. They sell fresh fruit and vegetables displayed in crates in a more casual way than shops. The NE area of Almalexia would indeed be suitable, either that or the small plaza with the statue (gasp) to the south of there. That would also explain where people in Almalexia get their food, as I find it a little hard to imagine a grocers in Alma.

As to the craftsmens market perhaps the raised area in Velothi Avenue would be suitable. it seems raised for no particular reason at the moment, exept perhaps for the hospital. If you had four or six stalls in the same fashion as the ones in Mournhold's Great Bazaar it would bring the area to life a little. There is already a cart there which looks quiet at home. You could have a few armour sellers, a few weapons sellers, an alchemist, a jewellers etc.

Other than those two small locations though, agree that there shouldn't be any other stalls. As you said Haplo, it is the holy city of Amalexia, not a farmer's market.

And good luck Aeven, I'm sure it's certainly no small task.

[blackbird]

What is going to happen with Tayonis castle? Is this going to be axed?

[Aeven]

I've moved it into the Indoril Quarter. Is that okay?

[Haplo]

Screenshot plz

[Aeven]

He's a file of what's been done so far. I've consulted with Adanorcil for practically every major change.

A new question though: could I replace the theatre placed in Velothril with a Bazaar building? Adanorcil and I have a different plan for a cultural place already.

(I wanted to upload the file but it tells me: No post mode specified)

[blackbird]

What is your different plan?
Why should there a bazaar building?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Greatness, as Haplo suggested elsewhere, this claim is too massive and important for a first timer. I'd advise against it.

At one point there was talk of splitting the city up into districts for NPCing. Still on the table? I looked at the claim's gargantuan interior list whilst on holiday and threw up a little.

Also the exterior looks weird, when did that happen? The entire place is covered in red/grey vertex shading which looks ugly. The massive stone road around certain parts outside the city walls also looks silly and just bad. Finally, did there ever get created new seperate exteriors for the Fighters and Mages Guild HQs?

Aeven, replacing the theatre could be a good idea. I didn't like the repitition from Mournhold, especially as we'd always be outshone and made irrelevant by the fully-voiced quest there.

[Aeven]

The old reddish grey shading is something I want to replace.
I did build new exteriors for the FG and MG. I'd upload a file but the forum won't let me.

[Haplo]

s.c.r.e.e.n.s.h.o.t.s

That's not a request. If you don't comply as was stated when the claim was granted, this will be revoked.

[Adanorcil]

[Aeven]

Adanorcil: I changed the images into links, because they were stretching the thread.




Dumb little screens. I've satisfied your needs.

House Indoril area
Sarethan quarter
Sandil plaza

And finally a shot of the theatre I'd like to replace with a bazaar. Adanorcil and I have a really good idea for the culture of the city, making this somewhat redundant.
Threatre
And what I have in mind for a replacement. Think of the Narsis bazaar, but grander (Indoril opulence)
Bazaar proposal

[Haplo]

Thank you. These screens are very helpful and a lot quicker to work with than an actual file. The first three could do with some labeling. And I'll be the judge of when my needs are satisfied; you're certainly not qualified for that. As for file uploading problems, I will look into that.

As I recall, the theater was added because there wasn't enough culture in the city. How would replacing the theater (culture) with a bazaar (commerce) satisfy the need for more culture, also considering the fact that we have a veritable craftsman hall to the east of that location already?

[blackbird]

I agree with Haplo that there should be no bazaar. There are many shops at Almalexia, so don't create more. I created every banner and I recall something about 30 shop and tavern banners.
BTW what is your alternative? I wonder what it is, because there aren't much good alternatives. An arena or indoor theater is very hard to create without new indoril sets.

[Nemon]

Art gallery? It could go with Aevens idea of adding a building.
Sculpture park? It would probably require new statues.
Strip club? THAT'S culture.

[Aeven]

Adanorcil and I have a stellar idea, but it's best if he explains it. The problem with this theatre is that it'll never match up to the fully voiced one in Mournhold.

(Also, that shell idea I posted could easily be an arena. We can do atriums et al these days, and this makes the set really versatile)

[blackbird]

What are you going to do with your 'bazaar' building?
Remove it, or making a library from it, or the new culture building?

[Aeven]

I haven't actually removed the theatre as of yet.

[Cathartis]

Can't the theatre be kept and moved somewhere else? I recall the interior for it being fairly good.

[Aeven]

It could actually. We have I believe 2 small plazas left.

This big one is the only sensible location for an arena or bazaar. This is the most commercial district, by the way.

[Nomadic1]

Arenas are cool.

[Aeven]

Right, a new thing to discuss: district names. A couple are fine, but others could stand a name change.

Sarethan Quarter is a rich area, with the Alma Rula's palace, and the epitome of High Indoril culture. Western Gate has been renamed to be included in this district.

Indoril District is, as the name would suggest, the area owned House Indoril. Technically this includes the Grand Ascendant's Cloister, but that cell is uniquely named. To the south of it is a poorer district, which could possibly use a unique name.

Velothril Avenue is the area where a lot of the big commercial activity happens and where artisans live. A reasonable number of foreigners live here too. The name would be OK were it not for that the avenue (which IS there if you look really closely) isn't very obvious and only a tiny part of this two-cell area. I'm not too fond of the -il extension either.

Manor District is a lame name, in my opinion, and somewhat incorrect. It's a middle-class/parvenu district, and the name suggests much more grandness. It's home to a large monastery with a park.

Triffith Sandil Plaza is the area where the (new) foreign guilds are housed, and generally a rich/middle-class area. Its primary importance is that it's the path to Mournhold. I'm not fond of the name, and Adanorcil earlier said it feels weird to have two named plaza's so close to one another (in Mournhold, Plaza Brindisi Dorom)


I'm curious to what people think are good replacements.

[gro-Dhal]

I think 'Indoril District' at least needs to be changed. What with the entire city being within another Indoril District, it seems a little confusing.

What's the Indoril emblem? A wasp?

[The Greatness]

Well the Indoril District is the district in which they are based, and what with it being the capital it wouldn't really be fair for them to have bases everywhere.

I'm not sure about the name for Velothril Avenue. It's not so much the 'avenue' bit that bothers me (I find it's quiet common to name an area after a street) but the name 'Velothril' which is a bit hard to pronounce thanks to the 'ril' bit, and easily confused with Velothi, which is something different entirely (although I don't know what it actually is). How about Romara avenue? Something like that.

Manor district is indeed rubbish, and not very suitable. How about something gardens? Delyn Gardens? Devine Gardens? Moratha Gardens? You get the idea.

Other than that I think the districts are fine.

[Aeven]

Sneaking in a file here. I've uploaded it externally, because this thread seems to have uploading issues.

[blackbird]

There is already a guild of craftsman which acts like a semibazaar.

[Aeven]

Which is I believe why we decided an Arena would be best. (and it IS doable. I'd do it myself just to prove it )

[The Greatness]

I'm no lore expert but an arena doesn't sound very Indoril-y. I thought they saught to help and purify people in the name of the Tribunal (or something like that), and watching people fight each other doesn't exactly further that aim.

[Aeven]

An arena is entertainment for the masses. Also, who's to say they don't fight in order to prove their worth to the Tribunal in combat?

[The Greatness]

[Aeven]

Also, remember that this is the capital city, and not every inhabitant is a member of Indoril (probably far from it, though a lot would feel affiliated with them in some way). Also, the Temple owns the Arena of Vivec City too...

[Haplo]

I'm just going to go ahead and let you know that it will not be an arena. I am leaning toward placing altars or places to give thanks to Temple wherever there are empty locations in the city that need something filling them up.

[Adanorcil]

I am rather flat out against an arena, because:

- Indoril don't do arenas.

- Frankly by and large the Arena in vanilla was kind of a bad idea and only there to give you something to do as a warrior.

- The fact that this is the capital should not be a reason why it should have an arena and really it's quite a good reason why it shouldn't have one. 'Big city, therefore arena' is the typical kind of gameplay-drenched formulaic design that we need to steer away from.


I'm going to explain the rest of this discussion a little bit, because it could fits in a slightly larger redesign and could thus use some clarification:

The guilds have been moved from the heart of Dunmer culture (Sarethan) to the Sandil Plaza, which is a great location for them. They have very nice exteriors there on opposite sides of the bridge to Mournhold. This now leaves that big tower in which the guilds used to be empty. There is a roughly symmetrically tower next to the ex-guild tower, which is currently 'storage'. That is to say: a huge interior wasted on crates. This is exceptionally dull and makes no sense whatsoever in the most cultured and refined part of the city. (Just like Ordinator barracks and an Ordinator prison.)

So here's the idea. Right by the Indoril Council House is an 'Ordinator Fortress' which potentially runs on indefinitely below-ground. We already agreed that this old-school interior with six candle-holding statues in the entrance hall needs a redo anyway. Obviously the Sarethan quarter can do without an 'Ordinator Prison'. (Because, you know, there's an Ordinator fortress on the other side of town.) Obviously the Sarethan quarter can do without 'Ordinator barracks'. (Because, you know, there's an Ordinator fortress on the other side of town.) Need be, either interior can be partially recreated in the Ordinator fortress, but that one probably has both barracks and a prison already.

This leaves us with some much-needed maneuvering space in Sarethan. With one of the buildings (barracks) around the Alma Rula's palace gone, the place can be made a little more spaced out and rich and less gray and Manhattan-like. With ordinator prison gone between the ex-guild tower and the Great House Embassies, the Embassies can now have an entrance that isn't wedged into an minutely small corner behind two other buildings. Instead, the entrance can be properly grand, and now gives out on a terrace. (This will require some very small changes to the interior, but nothing more than switching a few tiles around.)

Finally this leaves us with the issue of the ex-guildtower and the useless storage tower. One fleeting idea for this was to incorporate both into the cultured environment of Sarethan. The building closest to the Embassies (and connected to them via the terrace) could be a kind of luxurious hotel. The other would be a large indoors elitary/high-brow cultural center. Think like an opera building, but obviously not an opera building. The next closest thing was obviously a theater, but there is one on Velothril (which should indeed be renamed) already.

Now if the interior for the existing theater is decent, I'd really rather like to keep it where it is. Replacing it with a bazaar seems superfluous too, we have plenty of shopping already. The tower could certainly be turned into something non-theater, but cultural. On the other hand, though, I am not very comfortable with labeling the other tower as a 'hotel', because that is a concept that translates very poorly into Dunmer terms. I'm going to ask you all for some ideas for these two towers. Remember, they have to fit with the Sarethan mood.

[Why]

I understand your reservations about a "hotel". It seems a bit out of place in what is supposed to be a cultural center. But if we can't come up with something more fitting it's probably okay as long as it is indeed a rich hotel surpassing the other inns in town in grandeur (think, giving the guest their own private TR_furn_Basin_01 ). The richest hotel would naturally want to stand in the most sophisticated region of town.

For the cultural center, what exactly did you have in mind to put in there? Back on page two, Lud suggested a school of Law. We could make it one big educational center, housing a writing school, musical academy, sculptor's school, official temple banner/mural/fresco making academy, school of law and temple doctrine, et cetera.

Removing the Ordinator prison and barracks is a good idea.

[Adanorcil]

[Jule]

If I understand correctly, there is a plaza that needs to be filled somehow. Why not have a pavilion there, where the Indoril intelectuals and Temple elite would meet and discuss current events, share their thoughts, have philosophical debates and such? A place to show that it's not all about entertainment (albeit highly cultural entertainment), but also about enlightenment.

[Why]

[The Greatness]

I rather like the idea of a hotel. Surely in the capital city there would be plenty of rich visitors seeking somewhere to stay. As for the empty buildings, one idea that struck me is a library. As long as we can find plenty of books I think this would work rather well, and give us a nice go-to destination for a few quests.

[Aeven]

The thing about a library is that we'd have 200+ copies of A Game at Dinner, to make a generalization.


For the small plaza in South Sarethan, how do people feel about a forum-style building? Like the debate thing suggested.

[The Greatness]