[Tyrion]

Two things to address:

The spit of land could be removed. Nemon, I think you mentioned the river was too narrow at that point, and thats a good way to make the river wider and bring the castle directly to the mouth of the river.

Secondly, I gave most of the houses chimneys because I thought it made the roofline of the city look really neat and old-fashioned. You can remove some if you think its a problem, just watch which ones already have interiors, or simply make it so that not all have smoke.

[Haplo]

If someone wants to create a stitched-together mesh of the imperial tower meshes to replace the ones used at OE for the sake of MGE, feel free to do so, and I'll add it to TR_Data.

[Nemon]

Yeah, I don't know. I made the river mouth approx one cell wide and it looks nice now. The most narrow point was south of that spit of land anyways, and I like the way it is different than the cliff sides of the castle island. I also have plans for the U-shaped canals it contributes to.

I also added NPCs for reference in terms of lag and stuff. Right now it's getting crowded, and I haven't even started adding lights and details in the city center, so some smoke will have to go. The chimneys will all stay since they make a nice scenic view.

[Nemon]

99% complete. Plus a few screens.







Last WIP up as well, next one will be filed for review.

[Scamp]

looks great as always, Nemon!
Also, nice screenshotz

[blackbird]

1. Is the castle already finished?
2. Judging from the screens, I believe a bit more clutter (like crates) could improve OE.

3. I forgot to say, that you have uploaded nice screenshots!

[Haplo]

Awesome! I think it would be nice to have a little more light in the town (Lanterns/torches) by the time the finished product rolls around.

[Tyrion]

Did you think about adding lanterns to upper story windows, not just doors? That might improve things a bit.

[Cathartis]

Pwitty Pickcha!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9897526/TR%20Files/MGE%20Screenshot%2064.jpg

[Nemon]

[Aeven]

I'm not sure how relevant this still is, but is A1 still following the rivermap properly?

[Nemon]

[Nemon]

Off to review! I've been in game so many times now... I might have gone claim blind on this one, so forgive any mistakes here.

I added lots of crates, containers and stuff, as well as upgrading the lights, and adding a few extra here and there.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Nemon, I was just running through the TRV area today and I have to say that Old Ebonheart is an absolute masterwork which surpassed all my expectations of it; it is absolute awesomeness. Even without texture replacers or MGE it is a feast for the eyes, so much lovingly crafted detail.

Anyway, I think there is maybe room for one medium-sized addition and improvement, to add the finishing touch to TR's brilliantly realised Thirr Valley, if someone has the time. (I'd almost be willing to give it a shot myself because I think it would be so worth it)

At present (see attached screen) there's a slightly odd cliffy peninsula jutting out west of OE, which jars heavily with the rest of the entire TRV, and makes its mouth look slightly odd and narrow given how much the place opens up to the south. More importantly it also seems to separate OE and its present (and relatively small) docks from the valley, when it (and they particularly) should be one of its most integral parts.

I'd advocate removing the promontory and adding in some extra (no new ints if not necessary) docklands to OE, to really emphasise the Thirr's place as the hub of Morrowind's trade, and the fact that the Cyrodilic Empire is really built around trade, not cliche-fantasy-empire swords and castles. (in pic: red = remove, yellow = rough area of suggested docks)

[Thrignar Fraxix]

yes do away with that bit of inexplicably jutting land. I am less certain about adding additional docks though. Seems to me like it would be quite strange to have 2 sets of docks, even if they are for different bodies of water.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Mmm, I see what you mean. We could remove the other set then (although I actually quite like the metropolitan feel of multiple economic centres, again trade is the lifeblood of the Empire and it would really emphasise that) - because there should definitely be some major docks at the mouth of the Thirr, which is far more important as a trade route than the Inner Sea.

[Cathartis]

There is Andothren on the other side of the Thirr mouth, I think more docks would be overdoing it. The trade would be taking place at Narsis, Almas Thirr, Roa Dyr and the Dres cities down Lake Andaram.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I still think the existing docks at OE should at least be moved so they're on the Thirr (though again, would personally advocate two docks). OE needs to have a direct visual impact as a vital economic centre, controlling Imperial trade on the Thirr, which at present it doesn't. Players aren't counting port cities, they're looking at each one individually. To get the right image for OE across, it needs more prominent docks.

You're right about the number of trade sites: Hlaalu get Andothren and Narsis, 'Morrowind' gets Almas Thirr, Empire gets Ebonheart, Dres get their many cities. This creates the sense of a bustling economic region with multiple factions heavily involved. That's not a bad thing - that's the exact image we want to get across, and is ripe for exploitation through dialogue and quests.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

That would require a retooling of the entire city, moving or adding new ones. I do not think it is unreasonable at all to have ships sail over to the docks. I am still in favor of removing that land thingy, but moving or adding new docks seems like a terrible idea.

[Haplo]

The docks stay.

[Nemon]

The docks stay x2. We're currently delving way too deep in the realm of nitpicking here, not to offend anyone dear friends... In my mind the "gods terraforming of Tamriel made the dock placement easier on the north east side since the cliffs were too bad on the west side". I see BCs point, and if anyone is willing to make the opening wider then ok, feel free to have a conceptual go at it.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I don't think I ever suggested the removal of the docks. For me it's just a point of 'show don't tell' - it's all very well saying there's bustling trade on the Thirr and that Ebonheart's the capital of Imperial trade, and we can have some dude mention it in dialogue, but none of that would be as impressive as having an actual busy set of docks (which at present doesn't exist anywhere in the Thirr on Maps 3 or 4).

Just for the purposes of reinforcing NPCing and dialogue, would you guys also be opposed to a little bit of expansion work on the existing docks to make them look more active? (At present, even Necrom has more impressive docks)

[Haplo]

I figured adding NPCs would bring it to life. Some extra cluttering would be okay, though. I don't know the current state of the docks.

[Nemon]

Extra detailing could be done, yes.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

As much as extra detail, there just needs to be a little bit more dock 'space' as well, to expand it a little bit. Again, for TR's last major Imperial settlement and the most important trade centre of the Empire in Morrowind, the present docks are awfully small. (And to reiterate, I'm not being nitpicky about 'logistics' or whatever as if I think this is a realism issue - I'm talking about visual impact and the wider goal of 'art' and getting a message across)

There ought to be some room for smaller river craft and smallholders to dock with their supplies, alongside the existing big transport type ships, maybe a little bit of space for market traders as well, and other dockside activities.

[Tyrion]

You can't put docks on the Thirr side, that's the side with the cliffs. You can't put them around the castle or otherwise. You could expand the docks to the east if you wanted to, but I tried to keep the city from taking up too much space. Expanding the docks would probably require renaming another cell for just a little bit of dock space. IMO, not worth it, the docks there are big enough already. I think we have what, 5 large ships? That's pretty many as far as Morrowind ports go, and there's still space to add some smaller skiffs as well. There's even a strand to the west below the castle outside the town walls where you could have poor fishermen or whatnot drag their boats up or add a ramshackle quay if you really wanted to.

Also, as per the cliff promontory beside the castle, I think Nemon said before he liked the way it made the river mouth look, and that the narrowest point is actually a bit south from there.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

that's just a checklist of reasons why doing nothing is easier than making changes, which is obviously and necessarily true, i can hardly deny that, but none of it really addresses my point.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

We aren't adding any more docks, holy hell and if Nemon likes that land jut well guess what, he's the HoE.

[Tyrion]

Uploaded the file with new Factor's manor and chapel here.

[Aeven]

Small note: replace the fountain's spray activator with a clone that doesn't have the fabricant disable script, so not all fountains across Morrowind disable when the Fabricants attack Mournhold

[Leon]

Review



4/8/2012 (15:35 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (6, -18 ) "Terrain_rocks_AI_02" 53020 -141710 1313 "Needs to push the "X" Position few times"

4/8/2012 (15:39 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "TR_barrel_01_cheapfoo20" 63029 -150316 494 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:40 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 64353 -149846 488 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:41 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_pos" 64352 -149732 491 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:42 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_saltrice" 64635 -149788 524 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:43 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 60821 -147689 161 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:43 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "barrel_01_empty" 60753 -147683 156 "bleeds in ground"

4/8/2012 (15:44 ) TR_Map_3_Detailing_A1_10.esp 5/28/2011 (01:32 ) TR_M3A1 (7, -19 ) "TR_furn_barrel_empty01" 60689 -147685 152 "bleeds in ground"



EDIT
The Fabricants attack script on "Ex_MH_Pav_Water_Spray" in the fountain is still there and should be removed, what Aeven said in his latest post.

[SamirA]

When this is ready for the next step I need the Fighter's Guild sign moved from building #15 on this map http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/7383/oewestmap.jpg to building #3. The provincial hq being tucked away in an ordinary building needed a move.

[arvisrend]

So, what is the status of the old plans to have a complex canalization system partly used by thieves under the city?

[Nemon]

Sounds interesting, I've forgotten about that. It shouldn't be too difficult, the layout of the city makes it easy to add a few grates here and there - a "main" entrance in one of the backalleys and we have ourselves a win.