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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Okay, tested Flin Galore, it's very good. I have a few comments.

Firstly, some variation could be used in the 'cargo of Flin' topic - rather than everyone giving the same 'you think I'm a theif?' response. Just add some Random100 variables. On this note, Adosi Venith could do with some unique dialogue here (being the expert boat scav), as could the guard.

In the quest, it's unclear why the player should follow blokey, other than that 'journal said so'. Give a reason through dialogue hints or something, and then let journal clarify. But don't let journal ever know more than the player does.

Typo in journal on finding the Flin: "I followed an Vilyn..."

EEC guys says 'find me in Helnim and I'll give you more jobs'. This sounds unrealistic. I think it's more likely that he'd 'put in a good word for you', and get you some FacRep or something. Even if the player does work with him as part of the EEC, I don't think that'd be without having gone through the Factor etc. first.


Otherwise, pretty much perfect (and your scripting skills are intense, it's unbelievable! TravelAI is my worst nightmare, and yet you've got it flawlessly). Only slight wobble was potential problems on failing/retrying several times, which potentially screw up the sneaking AI? Not sure how replicable this is, though.

I will test the other one soon. Well done. :)


EDIT: Checked out 'Shackled by Love'. It's pretty much perfect. Hard to go wrong, really. :P

Anyway, my suggestions are as follows:

Give Nileno some 'begging dialogue' in the Oblivion style. Just so that she doesn't look like a pointless NPC, or that she's just been loitering in Helnim for kicks all this time.

Give some reward (even just hackle-lo or other lame thing) for the quest. Otherwise it's a bit offputting, or just confusing.

Change the title, maybe? I don't see it as having even a slight relation to the quest. :P (It doesn't have to be punny or 'cool', if you can't think of anything suchlike)

Otherwise, fine. Your questing is impressive and quality stuff, and I look forwards to seeing more of it. :)
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Post by Haplo »

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:EEC guys says 'find me in Helnim and I'll give you more jobs'. This sounds unrealistic. I think it's more likely that he'd 'put in a good word for you', and get you some FacRep or something. Even if the player does work with him as part of the EEC, I don't think that'd be without having gone through the Factor etc. first.
Perhaps if he said "If our paths ever cross again, I may have more work for you." Or something like that?
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Post by immortal_pigs »

A couple of suggestions for the "shackled by love"[?] quest:

The reward for the quest could be that 200g value star's eye on Mithas' table in his shack.

Instead of saying "She's Dead" [When meeting Mithas without meeting Nileno], perhaps make it a more tragic option like:
"I found her slain on the streets of Helnim.", "I found her at the bottom of the sea near a shipwreck.", "I found her frozen to death in a narrow alley.", etc...

Perhaps you could give multiple options [all with the same result], or just one very harsh one?
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Post by gro-Dhal »

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:EEC guys says 'find me in Helnim and I'll give you more jobs'. This sounds unrealistic. I think it's more likely that he'd 'put in a good word for you', and get you some FacRep or something. Even if the player does work with him as part of the EEC, I don't think that'd be without having gone through the Factor etc. first.
How about: if the player isn't a EEC agent, Galvix gives them a "We could use someone like you" type speech. That'd be nice.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Yay for testing!
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Firstly, some variation could be used in the 'cargo of Flin' topic - rather than everyone giving the same 'you think I'm a theif?' response. Just add some Random100 variables. On this note, Adosi Venith could do with some unique dialogue here (being the expert boat scav), as could the guard.
Good idea. Will do.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:In the quest, it's unclear why the player should follow blokey, other than that 'journal said so'. Give a reason through dialogue hints or something, and then let journal clarify. But don't let journal ever know more than the player does.
If you ask around town, the locals tell you that Vilyn Avani is often sneaking around at night. I'll try and make that more obvious though.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Typo in journal on finding the Flin: "I followed an Vilyn..."
Cheers.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:EEC guys says 'find me in Helnim and I'll give you more jobs'. This sounds unrealistic. I think it's more likely that he'd 'put in a good word for you', and get you some FacRep or something. Even if the player does work with him as part of the EEC, I don't think that'd be without having gone through the Factor etc. first.
There are different responses for EEC and non-EEC. If you're not EEC, he should just suggest you join ("We can always use a talented %PCRace like yourself."). If you are, he tells you to come back to him for more assignments. I'd planned to cook up an EEC line soon, and he would be able to offer some small side quests once this one was complete. The faction rep would be increased if you returned to the EEC quest giver (if you did this as an EEC quest).
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Only slight wobble was potential problems on failing/retrying several times, which potentially screw up the sneaking AI? Not sure how replicable this is, though.
Did you have an issue on repeated trips? It was working fine for me. I was quite worried about this, so any feedback would be awesome.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Give Nileno some 'begging dialogue' in the Oblivion style. Just so that she doesn't look like a pointless NPC, or that she's just been loitering in Helnim for kicks all this time.
Will do.
immortal_pigs wrote:The reward for the quest could be that 200g value star's eye on Mithas' table in his shack.
I think this sounds like the best option.
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Change the title, maybe? I don't see it as having even a slight relation to the quest.
How about "A Lover's Plea"? Sorry, I'm not much good with names.
immortal_pigs wrote:Instead of saying "She's Dead" [When meeting Mithas without meeting Nileno], perhaps make it a more tragic option like:
"I found her slain on the streets of Helnim.", "I found her at the bottom of the sea near a shipwreck.", "I found her frozen to death in a narrow alley.", etc...

Perhaps you could give multiple options [all with the same result], or just one very harsh one?
Will try the multiple options.

Will probably be after Christmas before I get another chance to work on this. I'll fix everything and post up a new version then.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

MMMowSkwoz wrote:There are different responses for EEC and non-EEC. If you're not EEC, he should just suggest you join ("We can always use a talented %PCRace like yourself."). If you are, he tells you to come back to him for more assignments. I'd planned to cook up an EEC line soon, and he would be able to offer some small side quests once this one was complete. The faction rep would be increased if you returned to the EEC quest giver (if you did this as an EEC quest).
Yeah, maybe my notes were confused. Anyway, regardless of that, he says something along the lines I gave (even if the PC is non EEC) if the player does then visit him in Helnim. It seems like he's giving out 'freelance' jobs, rather than being an official part of the EEC. Anyway, we can come to a conclusion on this once we see your plans for his role in the EEC (and that faction in general). I look forwards to it! :)
MMMowSkwoz wrote:Did you have an issue on repeated trips? It was working fine for me. I was quite worried about this, so any feedback would be awesome.
Well, once he just started walking on top of the crates by his house, but then seemed to get back to normality, although seemingly assuming that I'd caught him when it wasn't clear that I had. Because I don't know the exact parameters of the script, it wasn't something I was able to test in-depth. If you've tested it, it was probably alright. (Certainly, nothing catastrophic happened in my tests)
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ok, I'll give the dialogue a good check.

There are checks built into the sneaking script that should get him back on course if he decides to do anything odd. Should I make it more obvious when you get caught? There should be a journal message the first time, but if you get caught again he just stops sneaking instead.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

This doesn't really belong in this thread, but is there any chance we could set up a quest design claim for the EEC questline? I've had a few ideas and I thought it would be good to get them up on the forum.
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Post by theviking »

You can always start a thread in the quests and lore forum. I was planning to update the map2 factional and mayor thread soon, so it could go in there. I had some plans for the Morag Tong faction myself.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ok, new file uploaded. All the above issues should be addressed and I also found a bug caused by sleeping during the sneaking-around, which should also be fixed.

The Merro Galvix dialogue may need some minor tweaking once the EEC line has been done, but it's fine as a stand alone quest as it is.
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Post by Stryker »

Not sure if it was needed but I decided to it anyways... Besides, its about time I got more involved with the questing department... after all its what I original joined for.

I played Flin Galore, and it played flawlessly from everything I did. The only thing that puzzles me is that I got a reward for not telling who the culprit was, the quest design says that there should be no reward. Was this changed within the time the quest was designed (Didn't really read the whole topic, so sorry if its says so...)

I did not manage to finish Shackled by Love. Its rough playing it with a map cut off and not being at all familiar with the map yet (And I can't remember how to fix the map, nor can i find it.)
I got as far as having to escort Nileno back to AO... But everything up until that worked perfectly. I'll try to finish it up soon.
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Post by Faalen »

Stryker wrote:(And I can't remember how to fix the map, nor can i find it.)
[url=http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19510]Morrowind Code Patch[/url] ftw. And playtesting is always needed and desirable. The more eyes the better; play all you want.

And MowSkwoz, you are eating these claims like popcorn. I only have one claim in Finished and that's an interior. :-P
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Thanks Stryker. The more input the better.
Stryker wrote:The only thing that puzzles me is that I got a reward for not telling who the culprit was, the quest design says that there should be no reward.
That's me taking liberties with the quest design. I thought it a little unfair for the player to get no reward, despite doing what they were told. If anyone has strong objections, I can change it.

And just to clarify, the issue was not knowing where to go with Nileno? Yes, it is a bit of a slog, but with the code patch's expanded map it's not too bad. I've memorised the route now I've played it so many times..

Faalen: Your quest is about 20 times bigger than mine though.. :P
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Post by Stryker »

MMMowSkwoz wrote:That's me taking liberties with the quest design. I thought it a little unfair for the player to get no reward, despite doing what they were told. If anyone has strong objections, I can change it.
Nah, I was just wondering if I missed something in the quest design. I think its better that the player does get a reward, just not as big of reward (Just like the way you have it implemented.)

Once I get the chance later I'll try to finish up the other quest.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Stryker wrote:Nah, I was just wondering if I missed something in the quest design.
As long as it's sensible, questers are free to take some liberties with the design. It would be a bit boring for the quester if they were allowed no originality or input of their own.

So as long as things are reasonable, and stick close enough to the plan, we're usually alright with it.
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Post by Stryker »

Faalen wrote:[url=http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19510]Morrowind Code Patch[/url] ftw.
I completely missed this post before. :?
Thanks for the link Faalen, I finally got it working now.

MowSkwoz: I finished up Shackled by Love and I must say from everything I did it worked flawlessly as well.
The only suggestion I have is perhaps allowing you to tell Nileno to wait for you. But of course that is pretty minor.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

"Wait here" option added as requested.

Done. Use version 5.
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Post by theviking »

first map2 claim to review, yay!
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Post by Stryker »

Both quests ran flawlessly from what I did.
The only errors I found were mostly minor spelling and grammar errors.

Merro Galvix, initially talking to him about Cargo of Flin.
"perhaps you could help me find it?"
The 'P' in perhaps is not capitalized at the beginning of the sentence.

Confronting Vilyn Avani after talking to drunk Dunmer (I forgot his name, oops :P ) Cargo of Flin topic:
"That s'wit is too drunk to find his own shack, never mind know who's giving him a drink."
Should probably be changed to, "That s'wit is too drunk to find his own shack, much less know who's giving him a drink."
Just slightly easier to understand.

Telling Nileno Dralora about Mithas she says, "... I assumed since I was gone so long he would have found another."
Changing it to "... I assumed since I was gone for so long..." makes it again slightly easier to understand.

After getting the flin from the stash talking to Vilyn Avani before he makes it back into his house results in the same response, "Have you been following me?..." and the same journal update, "Vilyn Avani has caught me following him... Perhaps I should try again tomorrow night?"

All these 'errors' are minor and easily fixed. But otherwise these quests were nearly perfect. :)
Since I'm not really aware of how this works, should I make the fixes or will you, viking?

I'll get to testing the other quests hopefully tomorrow or monday. :)
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Post by Stryker »

Mithas Vemyn, Background
"I have been waiting for her here ever since."
Changed to "I have been waiting for her ever since."


Moved furn_de_shack_basket_01 in Mithas' home. Sometimes when you find him dead he ends up bleeding into the basket.


Nileno Dralara, Nileno Dralara
"I never thought he would stay. I assumed since I had been gone for so long he would have found another."
Changed to "I never thought he would stay. I assumed that since I had been gone for so long he would have found another."


Another more minor thing I noticed: If Nileno dies, there is no additional dialogue and choices for telling Mithas about it. You still have to lie and say she died on the road near Firewatch.

Flin Galore!

Merro Galvix, Cargo of Flin.
"perhaps you could help me find it?"
Simply capitalized the 'P'


Confronting Vilyn Avani after talking to Dreynis 'cargo of flin' topic:
"That s'wit is too drunk to find his own shack, never mind know who's giving him a drink."
Changed to, "That s'wit is too drunk to find his own shack, let alone know who's giving him a drink." Just slightly easier to read, IMO.


After getting the flin from the stash talking to Vilyn Avani before he makes it back into his house results in the same response, "Have you been following me?..." and the same journal update, "Vilyn Avani has caught me following him... Perhaps I should try again tomorrow night?"
Added another dialogue entry with filters for the appropriate journals, to avoid getting the journal update.
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