6-26-Dre

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horodnicdragos
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Post by horodnicdragos »

Wow!That's not nice...But you can go to bed later or wake up earlier as I do.Here the school began again so I have to make my time for TR.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Thanks a bunch!
In a cruel twist of fate, my dad is so swamped with work of his own that I have to do all of my schoolwork at my mom's. I'll be returning when im done though, so if my brother doesn't have any homework to do I'll try and finish up the OOT stuff. GOD I wish my new computer were here already...

EDIT: it's thursday, and school is crunching down on me rather unkindly. I'll try to do as much as I can tomorrow - saturday i'm gone all day (but here to crunch in the morning). No matter my progress, I'll have the newest claim file uploaded by lunchtime-ish on sunday.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

I've got all of the OOT stuff done. Should I just upload the slightly-messy file I have on hand, or finish up some small bits of business (some cells are only half-filled with rocks, for example) to make it easier for whoever picks this up? oh, and the new computer is going to be here and running around new year's.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Merry general holiday season!
Attachments
6-26 OOT files.rar
(2.74 MiB) Downloaded 141 times
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by Haplo »

ahh! Bright greenish blueish vertex shading must go! *makes cross symbal w/ fingers*

list of what's left to be fixed (meshes)

TR_Terrain_rock_AI_36
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_28
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_32
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_22
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_38
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_21
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_35
TR_Terrain_rock_AI_25
TR_KL_ind_pavgate
TR_MH_furn_planter_02

Flora_tree_MH_01
flora_tree_wg_01
flora_bush_01

That's only a partial...I stopped when I noticed you must have a lot of stuff in wrong directories. Like...Beth stuff.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Heh, whoops... I did that shading a LONG time ago and kind of forgot about it :P... which reminds me, what's a good way to make the water look murky without that evil shading, or without using weird green land textures for the bed?

About those meshes... what the fuck?? I TOTALLY cleaned my claim with TESAME, and I'm sure that i've never used any of those meshes (meaning I would have deleted them with it). Maybe my version of the program's broken... I've got a non-TESAME'd file, but it's from before I did all of the search/replace and mesh re-organising.

Also, just a warning, there's an interior cell that I did to tie in with that broken bridge. I figured I'd separate that from 6-26 and submit it seperately once interior claiming came up, but I didn't remember about that till just now. in fact, while i'm at it, I should make a list of odd things that would otherwise jump at your face...
- there's an extra cell that would be part of Argonia, south of the pass. I added it because without this cell, there was a MASSIVE HUGE GAPING HOLE just beyond the border, and EASILY within sight as it was on a sure-to-be-frequently-traveled path, that looked absolutely vomitworthy ingame.
- I mentioned this in the OOT stuff readme, but there's an argon jungle cave entrance model that I didnt have time to update in the CS, so you have to find the mesh "TR_terr_AJ_cave_entrance" and change the mesh to the one in TR/x with the exact same filename.
- The "Esurio Viridis" meshes/textures are missing, because I figured those models are ugly/outdated and should be removed anyway... but since it's a creature, the game will crash if you try to load it up. just delete them in the CS before you load up the claim.
- the numerous cave entrances/"random" dres walls/etc are confusing as hell unless you read the readme, which I'm going to repost below after doing some minor edits.
- Yes, the daedric tower is freaking big. I'm really trying hard to think of a good replacement that's more realistic, equally aesthetic, and doesn't require a new mesh.
- The dwarven ruin's tower is very bulbous, yup. I was hoping a special interior mesh could be made for that, when and if the time comes.
- THere's a shack in the swampy area just over the cliffs in the southernmost (21, y) cell. I figured there'll be invisible walls, so DONT make it an interior, izz jus fo dekorashiin.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

erm, what's the progress on finding new blood for 6-26? my OOT submission hasnt even been looked at yet...
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by PoHa! »

Are you dropping this Wooty?

Might I get my hand in some more jungly fun? I don't have the time exactly right now, but after finals are through, I plan on getting back to my 6-8 claim, and I could just as well finish this up.
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Post by Zalzidrax »

I might be able to provide assistance as well. Once finals are done of course... :?
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Post by Dexter »

PoHa! wrote:Are you dropping this Wooty?
Yep.
Here's what needs to be addressed with this claim:
First and foremost, the rock textures are too green. Wooty was trying to achieve a mossy rock look, but just tinting them green isn't sufficient. Someone needs to take the textures and do some work on them to make them look more realistic.
The wilderness looks good, but it could use more references in many parts. Also, playtest the entire claim, to ensure that areas with lots of mist generators don't slow up the game too much.
Someone might want to consider cutting down on the reference count of Balsan Mar. The three highest Bethesda-made exterior reference counts are 581 for one cell of Lake Fjalding, 486 for another, and 454 for Balmora. By contrast, Balsan Mar has 686 references.
No major changes need to be made to the claim itself. It is mostly finishing work from here on in.
Consequently, I will only be granting this claim to someone who I know is capable of finishing it. So don't be offended if you claim it and I revoke it.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

Someone needs to take the textures and do some work on them to make them look more realistic.
Oh, I can easily still do that. Photoshop doesn't require a 32-bit-capable video card like the TESCS does. :-P
About balsan mar, most of the excess references are lights - this was something I know needs to be fixed, but hasnt been yet. what I would do is change the "dres_winlight" to have a much bigger radius and use one light for multiple widnows, as opposed to the ludicrous amount I had previously. also, some windows that would be harder to see in-game, or provide ugly views from the inside, could be totally removed.

About the argon jungle wilderness, somewhere on this HD I wrote a guide on how to build the jungle areas, meant for PoHa, and judging by how kickass his 6-8 work is it was a well-written guide. I'll post it once I find it.
The rest of the wilderness is just about 100% done, but the AI-ish areas need container plants and the mountains (cliffs arent mountains, by the way) need smaller rocks.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

FOund it! It was written from the point of starting new areas from scratch rather than finishing, so i've modified it a bit.

There are very few totally complete Jungle areas. The best example is just SW of where the river bends around the big-rock-island. All the rest of the jungle area is between 50-100% covered with all undergrowth. The bolded areas are very important bits of info, and the areas that are underlined in addition to being bolded are so freaking important beyond words that I will kill you if you dont listen to them. :-P

JUNGLE

statics
-All Flora_Bc_.... meshes except for the trees with leaves
-Flora_BM_Grass_0(1,4)
-TR_AJ_cave_entrance
-TR_fern_db0(1,2)
-TR_flora_AJ_F0(1-3)
-TR_flora_AJ_T0(1-8 ) (ones without leaves or on rocks are considered undergrowth)
-TR_flora_AJ_shrub_0(1-6)
-TR_flora_bitterroot_0(1-6)
-TR_terrain_(AJ or BC)_cliff_(01-06)
-TR_terrain_AJ_rocks_0(1-4)
-TR_terrain_AJ_rock_01 (use it as a "joint" for cliffs and general mountain cool-ifier. its big)

containers
-(whatever plants you would see in BC non-muck areas)
-Flora_bc_fern_01 (should be used ALOT - as much as F03 models)

other tips
-in the mountains, use no plants except for small grasses.
-For the argonian border, use the cliff meshes.
-for the northernmost mountains in the claim, use WG, not AJ, textures.
-The small AJ rocks 01 and 03 should be used in the jungle floor, while the 02 and 04 rocks should be used on
steep hilsides and the lower-slanted parts of the mountains.
-The bamboo plants aren't on my list for a reason. They are WAY too high-poly, and eat FPS like a fat man eats cake. Use them if you want, but keep in mind how brutally they rape FPS rates.
-Make sure that everything except the Flora_AJ_T's (ones with leaves) is totally done before you add them - because when you do, they should make a COMPLETE canopy with basically no gaps between each tree's leaves. try and fit the leaf-edges together almost like a puzzle, and vary each tree's scale slightly to add variation. The only places in the jungle where there should be gaps in the canopy are wherever there is muck - don't use ANY actually inside the muck, the muck-ponds have a totally different style to them.
- The process of adding the statics that I used was this: F03s, leafless AJ trees, shrubs (some bigger than others, done by adding roots on the edges), rocks, scaled-down leafless BC trees, grass/small ferns, container flora, main trees. When adding the main trees, make sure at all costs that there are no major gaps between each tree's leaf-edges. Also, the main AJ trees MUST be the tallest ones in the main jungle area. the muckpond trees are an exception, because there are no main AJ trees for them to dwarf in those areas.
---------------------

MUCK (also Black Marsh (white on the map) areas)

statics
-Terrain_BC_muck
-Furn_mist_512 (2x scale, "carpet" all the muck with it)
-All Ash Trees (2x scale)
-All leafless BC trees (flora_BC_tree_...) and stumps, logs
-All BC small plants, including containers

other tips
-dont use any rocks. period. natural erosion would either turn rocks into sediment, or make them sink.
-on the very small "islands" that rise out of the muck, use the plant scheme of the main jungle instead of that of the muck lake.
Makhetos Pass. go to that cell to see the best example of what the muck areas should look like when fully done. All other muck areas aren't quite filled in yet, and either need more trees or containers or something.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by PoHa! »

I'd like to take this, if I may. :P
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Post by Dexter »

Yah!
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

WOOO! I'm glad you were quick, PoHa! you're definitely the first person I'd choose for best-able-to-do-this-without-pissing-me-off. :-D
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Post by Dexter »

Wooty, something you need to realize, this isn't your claim anymore. Just like Old Ebonheart wasn't your claim anymore after I took over. This belongs to PoHa! now, and he has complete creative control. He doesn't have to run anything through you for approval. In fact, since this claim and 6-8 boarder each other, I am considering merging them together into one claim.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

That would probably make sense, to merge them.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

how's this coming?
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

I'm getting worried... PoHa hasn't been on in nearly a month, or posted any progress. I can only hope that he's on some sort of long vacation without internet access, or something like that.
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Post by Dexter »

PoHa only has Internet access when he is at college. Winter break began for on the 16th of December. He told me that he is able to work on the claims over the break, but not update them.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

ohhhhh, okay - that's good news. I know alot of christian-oriented places have their breaks last until the 8th due to epiphany or something, so I'd assume he'll be back any day now. :)
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Post by Dexter »

Winter breaks in college last six weeks...
He'll be back at the end of January.
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Post by PoHa! »

Actually, I only get 3 weeks... I think... 4? Bah... I'm in college, I can't count.

Anyways, yeah, I'm back. I hit some snags over the break though, so while I worked on it some, I was worried about working on it too much, because I think I still had some of SirWoot's Non-OoT meshes in there, and I couldn't figure out which ones.

Plus, I wanted to run these proposed changes by anyone (Dexter in particular) who may have any objections.

Code: Select all

1.) The Waterfall:

Already done. The blasted thing was huge, the sound cut in and out and was more annoying than realistic sounding, it didn't look at all natural, and something so large would surely have been mentioned in lore. If it is mentioned somewhere, then we need to find a better way to make large, wide, waterfalls.

I've tried to create a more natural looking, subtler waterfall in its place.

2.) The ruins:

	A.) The Daedric ruin:

		a.) The thing is huge! It needs to be smaller.
		b.) What's those blue light-smokey things coming from the towers? Surely such important looking things would have a big important role in something...? Or, we could just remove them.
		c.) I counted 5 entrances. Granted, this IS a big ruin, but the most I can remember for a ruin in Morrowind was 2. Some of those entrances need to go.
		d.) The largest tower is too tall. Period.
		e.) This is supposed to be a ruin, right? I don't get that impression when I look at the majority of it. Daedric ruins are still supposed to be weirdly shaped with odd angles and walls in every which direction, right?
		f.) Such a large ruin, so close to a plantation? That strikes me as incredibly odd.

	B.) The Dwemer ruin:

		a.) Its too big.
		b.) Since the bridge has fallen down, it doesn't lead anywhere. When it was up, it lead to... a ruined Dres tower? The bridge is pretty big just by itself, anyways.
		c.) Yet another structurally sound ruin, with the occasional fallen tower for affect.
		d.) The largest tower looks more like something that was created after the Dwemer disappeared, oddly. 
	
	C.) Two BIG ruins so close together? What makes them so special? The jungle?
	D.) Ruins of Morrowind are usually much simpler on the outside, with the deep complexities hidden below ground or in the mountains.

3.) Balsan Mar:

	A.) Difficult to navigate. (Go through Prison to get to strider port? etc...)
	B.) Dres architecture mixed with rickety looking rope bridges? Yuck.
	C.) Why is a statue of Boethiah standing over the city? Certainly seems odd
Anyways, I thought I'd hear anyone's thoughts regarding those, especially since there COULD have been a lore-based reason that those things were built the way they were, and I'm not exactly a lore master.

And uh... Welcome back me!
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Post by Dexter »

If you think there may be a lore reason for any of that, well, there isn't. Wipe away anything you think is ugly, lore-breaking, or confusing, and replace it with something more suitable. You've got the green light from me to do whatever you need to do.
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

go ahead and remove the weird tower (make it more normal) in both ruins, the flames, the boethia statue, the bridge, and if you can find a better way to make Balsan Mar's areas accessed, the rope stuff can go too. I only kept it because I couldnt for the life of me find a better solution that wouldnt block the main path. maybe the strider platform could be an interior with a staircase to the main level?

and about the waterfall, I agree it looked weird; should've had a single custom mesh. I hope you didn't remove the cliff though; I can't imagine anything else that would work as well other than clumps of rock_WG_12 meshes...
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Post by PoHa! »

Thanks Dexter, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. :D

I'm not certain what you meant about the cliff, SirWoot. If there was a cliff behind/underneath the waterfall that you're talking about, then I deleted it. Maybe a [url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/6-26Waterfall.jpg]pic[/url] would best show what I did?

Ah, and one other thing...

Those Dres meshes... are the new ones still being worked on, or should I use the ones I have, or... ?
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

simply beautiful. :-D
Perhaps you could find a way to stick some vegetation up there though? like little ferns and scrubby things. that'd add to it quite a bit, IMO, but it's your call.
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

oh, and the new dres meshes are still being worked on. I'd probably just wait till they're released to make any changes, because it'll all need a total revamp anyway.
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Post by Zephyr »

No, actually it was voted for that the old set be used.
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Post by PoHa! »

Oy, too bad. I really liked Vernon's model's more than the current set. Oh well.

I've found quite a few little non-OoT things wrong with this section (apparently the AJ cliffs and rocks were taken out of OoT, or were never actually there), so before I can make any real progress, I want to fix all those little yellow diamonds. Then I'll start work on the three problem areas that I mentioned above.

Edit: And now I wonder what geographic region the TR_terr_cliff...'s are supposed to be used in, for I couldn't locate a matching terrain texture, and I think their dark color would look nice in the Argon Jungle...

Edit2: and one last thing... does an interior tileset for the Dres exterior pieces even exist?

Edit3: ...and since it appears (from my own personal checking into it with members through IMs) that the Dres interior tileset does not exist, and the exterior tileset is even below TR standards (that's why a new one was started, correct?), I wonder if it can't be decided that Dres use Velothi/Vivec architecture instead?

It would certainly kill two birds with one stone, at least...
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

DO NOT use any velothi architechture in balsan mar!
from a lore standpoint, it's a new city (built in the third era) - and all velothi cities are ancient by human standards. it has to use dres architechture. Besides, I imagine that everyone will be working on hammerfell by the time map 6 interior building would have rolled around. :-/
About the cliffs, I simply cannot imagine how their removal can be covered without a total revamp. it'd crush my heart to see bulbous vvardenfell-style mountains in their place, but it's your call if they were truly removed. I have all the meshes the claim needs in a handy pack that I can send to you, if it's not still lurking in the OOT forum.
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Post by Gez »

PoHa! wrote:Edit3: ...and since it appears (from my own personal checking into it with members through IMs) that the Dres interior tileset does not exist, and the exterior tileset is even below TR standards (that's why a new one was started, correct?), I wonder if it can't be decided that Dres use Velothi/Vivec architecture instead?
Velothi's not a good set for exteriors, unless you always go all cantony like Vivec and Molag Mar. Reasons are that houses never have foundations (so you have to use the ugly blocky foundations like what was done in Vos) and most of them lack a back wall (so you have to find another way to close the hole, remembering that the existing velothi walls are not tall enough).
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Post by PoHa! »

SirWoot wrote:from a lore standpoint, it's a new city (built in the third era) - and all velothi cities are ancient by human standards.
Is it? I couldn't find anything about "Balsan Mar" or even "Balsan" in TIL. I would heavily appreciate any lore information you have regarding the city.

Besides, the architecture wouldn't have to be ancient, just a representation of it.
Gez wrote:Velothi's not a good set for exteriors... Reasons are that houses never have foundations... and most of them lack a back wall
Ah, but you forget that restrictions are the best way to make something creative. I could easily work my way around those problems.
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Post by PoHa! »

UPDATE!

Balsan Mar has been destroyed as it was, and is being rebuilt in Velothi. I have all of the basic layout, and I just need to add some fine details and maybe a few more houses. It is still a Dres town as I see it, they just have Velothi architecture.

Pics:
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/SlavePens.jpg]- Slave Pens[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/SlavePens2.jpg]-Slave pen, top view[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/RichSection.jpg]- The rich section[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/PoorSection.jpg]- The poor section[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/Port.jpg]- The strider port (old pic, but gives an idea)[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/BalsanMar.jpg]- Layout (old pic, but gives a general idea of the layout) (the left side of the photo is south)[/url]

And some more pics of that waterfall that I edited, but better, closer pics, I think:
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/Waterfall2.jpg]- Pic 1[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/Waterfall1.jpg]- Pic 2[/url]

I've also deleted many parts of the Daedric ruin (its still big) and it now has but one entrance, the one I thought SirWoot had put the most time into, and by far the best, hardest to find entrance, instead of the several entrances.
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fanfas
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Post by fanfas »

Wow very nice poha, i love the waterfall.
MAP 3 -> Interiors
Map 3 -> Interior Fixing
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Lady Nerevar
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

yep, the waterfall is quite sexerific. i especialy like the second picure :mrgreen:
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Dexter
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Post by Dexter »

Brilliant job on the slave pens. What did you use for the ceiling?
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sirwootalot123
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

It's horrendousifically depressing to see my old baby gone, but I like the direction your vision is going in. THe slavepits are especially boss... just remember to make the weather sunny all the time to avoid issues with the weather.
And is the entrance you kept the one with all the steps from the marshy area? I hope so, it's meant to be the one actually used most of the time. :)

A big suggestion of mine would be to think Z-axis, not X and Y - build doorways (or whole small buildings) into the cliffsides and canton walls. that was my whole original vision of Balsan Mar, which never really worked with the dres tileset. Also, try using the vivec bridges between different "blocks" - I wished there was a dres-like version of them for me to use in Balsan Mar, but there was not.

Oh, and you REALLY need to totally redo the entire cliffside areas, seeing that my rocks and cliffs are gone. it looks horrible-licious in its naked stretched state - try making mountains, like the ones I have in the middle of the claim, instead.
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Post by kebra »

Just great. May i steel you some ideas? :)
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Post by sirwootalot123 »

I just realised - why are you using WG trees by the waterfall?? It's still AJ region, only the rocks are west gash-style (it'd be pretty dumb-looking to have a mountian be different regions on each side :-P). Maybe you could use a bunch of bittershrubs instead?
"Crashing the game is an innovative way of alerting the player that they've finished the quest, but I'm not sure that's the kind of innovation we're looking for." - Sload
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