Imperial Archeological Society - Guild Discussion

[Starcrunch]

It has been decided that the Imperial Archeological Society (IAS) will be a player joinable faction for Map 2. The IAS will be principally involved in the exploration of the ruins of Kemel-Ze (for those who do not know this is a huge labyrinthine Dwemer ruin near the Imperial city of Darconis where the IAS has their principal base of operations). The purpose of this thread will be to work out the faction information for this group. This means we need to work out their two favored attributes and six favored skills. We also must determine the ranks and decide such things as how high the player may climb in the faction. I will attempt to keep this first post updated with the relevent worked out information, but nothing in this first post should be taken as final. The initial choices reflect an IRC discussion between Vegor, Stalker, and myself.

Favored Attributes:
Intelligence
Luck

Favored Skills:
Speechcraft
Mercantile
Athletics
Alchemy
Unarmored
Security

Ranks:
????????

That's it for now, time for everyone to jump in and have their say!

-Starcrunch

[Arthmodeus]

Favored Skills:
Speechcraft
Mercantile
Athletics
Acrobatics
Unarmored
Short Blade

[Lud]

As recently as 100 years ago archaelogy as we know it now didn't exist. In these days "archaelogist" was simply a fancy word for a treasure hunter who travelled around looking for treasures.
The Imperial Archaelogical society would probably be something similar and wouldn't be very interested in contextuallising their finds or real scholarship.

Suggested ranks:

Low-
Treasure Hunter

High-
Curator,Dean,Academic

[Stalker]

Ranks:
9 - Head Expeditor
8 - Expeditor
7 - Junior Expeditor

[Anonymous]

Blunt weapon would probably be most appropriate, since the members are likely to carry a staff for getting to sites whihc are out of the way.

[Starcrunch]

As recently as 100 years ago archaelogy as we know it now didn't exist. In these days "archaelogist" was simply a fancy word for a treasure hunter who travelled around looking for treasures.
The Imperial Archaelogical society would probably be something similar and wouldn't be very interested in contextuallising their finds or real scholarship.

There is evidence that scholarship is important to the IAS, there are a few mentions of them and the book The Ruins of Kemel-Ze certainly indicate that they are rather different from the Victorian era archeologists (at least in my eyes).

-Starcrunch

[Haplo]

I second Arth's suggestion of Short Blade for the final attribute, or, if that doesn't work, then Blunt Weapon.

[Anonymous]

I dont really see the purpose of it being short blade. If you are fighting rats then a stick would be better, you dont have to run the risk of a bitten hand. If you are fighting something dwemer you want a real heavy weapon like a long blade. I think it would be better just to have a staff or a torch which acts as a weapon.

[Vegor]

Meaning blunt weapon indeed. I can't decide, I've not seen a very good argument for or against either. Could be any of both, I don't think it's much of a problem. I'd go for Blunt Weapon, but for no particular reason.

I think the archeologists are actually very sophisticated in their research. Nowhere near modern archeologists, but still genuinly interested in the origin of the items they research. That in contrast with mere treasure hunters that are out for loot and fame.

I imagine the lower ranks to be diggers and people carrying off debris and heavy parts of uninteresting artifacts, instead of real archeologists. I like the expeditor ranks for the highest ranks as Stalker suggested.

[Nairb]

some of the quests could be like hide and seek. hide a intem in a ruin

[Sload]

I really like the idea Vegor brought up over IRC once with most of the quest being about Kemel-Ze and escavating it..it'd be interesting to reveal more and more of the ruin as the player went on.

I prefer blunt weapon for two reasons. First, short weapon gets a lot of attention, blunt weapon not so much. Second, if you needed to smash through something because the slave you hired (though you consider it a totally unethical practice, ofcourse) just fell and cracked his skull a blunt weapon is much better.

Oh, and the folks in charge should be very much like the auther of Ruins of Kemel-Ze.

[Stalker]

Let it be Blunt Weapons than.

[Nomadic1]

I agree that blunt weapons are better, and they'd certainly be more useful. I am a bit surprised that Armourer is not a favoured skill, but I can understand it looking at the other ones.

[Theo]

I would suggest reflecting academical structure.

Undergraduate (bachelor)
Postgraduate (master)
Enquirer (doctor)
Researcher (docent)
Tutor (professor)
Academic (Head of department)
Expeditor (Dean)
Expedition leader (Archdean)
Project Manager (Prorektor)
Supervisor (Rektor)

Until reaching status of enquirer, PC would just study historical books and pass (or fail) tests of Tutors.
As an enquirer he would be asked to do his own enquiry in some specified field of problem or topic, including some fieldwork, but most of library work.
As a researcher he could do his own research, but he would have to persuade Tutor about his worthiness in the end.
Tutoring and academical quests would consists in fieldwork, and following tutoring of students. As an Academic you could write a book (or at least have some assistant to whom you would dictate results of your research)???
At the rank of expeditor he would be allowed to join some expedition for which he would become responsible as a project manager. and as a supervisor decide on sending his own (building of the camp there).

Just brainstorming...

[Sload]

That looks more like rising through the ranks of a college. The Imperial Archeological Society seemed ENTIRELY about being an archeologist, not about teaching and things. Sure, they bragged to eachother and whatnot, but no schooling.

Besides, I don't think there are a lot of players who like reading books and taking tests over and over again, once is a nice novelty, but if it looks like that's all your going to do for a faction, most people are gonna quit.

[Dexter]

Athletics I agree upon, but acrobatics? Since when do you need to be able to do backflips to dig holes? I say replace acrobatics with alchemy, as there would most likely be some sort of alchemy tests being done upon recovered artifacts.

[Stalker]

You need to jump when you want to get some unreachable stuff. Also when a centurion comes close you'll be doing all sorts of dances to stay alive

[Starcrunch]

I think Dexters argument is good. But I can see the counter argument running along the lines of Acrobatics is needed to scramble through ruins and climb over stuff. What does everyone else think?

-Starcrunch

[Animunculi]

Athletics I agree upon, but acrobatics? Since when do you need to be able to do backflips to dig holes? I say replace acrobatics with alchemy, as there would most likely be some sort of alchemy tests being done upon recovered artifacts.

I agree with Dexter. Alchemy seems more sensible for archeology. I can even imagine one quest where you need to find a special item from a ruin and then later conservate it.
When a centurion approaches the archeologist gulps an invisibility or camouflage potion which he or she cooked up previously and waits until the centurion leaves.
But why not have both of the skills and remove something like mercantile since it is not allowed to trade with dwemer items anyways.

[Anonymous]

If not alchemy then restoration...just for the name of it

Security would also be a useful one to have, since most stuff is found in locked boxes.

[Dexter]

I think mercantile should stay, since we could pass it off as the ability to appraise the item.

[Sload]

I agree, Alchemy would be better. However, I think that mercentile isn't the best skill for them. They're not so interested in selling them as they are in studying them.

[Anonymous]

Yes they are more likely to have a broker who would sort out anything that they want to sell. They are more likely to put them on display in a museum, and if its anything really interesting it would probably get shipped to the Capital.

[Starcrunch]

Mercantile is very important. Remember that it is also a skill used when buying artifacts, something they most certainly would do to obtain them.

-Starcrunch

[Anonymous]

Do we really need both speecraft and mercantile though? They are very similar.

[Dexter]

We could drop blunt weapon and add security, since I fail to see how blunt weapon would be a vital skill. Maybe with using shovels... but that would be more of an axe skill, and that's a big stretch of reason.

[Stalker]

Blunt weapons is for defending yourself.

[Starcrunch]

Yes, they are two of the most sensible skill picks for this guild. The IAS is interested in knowing facts about history and those are the skills that further this ambition the most. I do rather agree that security seems sensible as well.

-Starcrunch

[Dexter]

But as Animunculi said, I think the archaeologists would be more likely to try and hide from the Dwemer constructs than destroy them. Either way, I really think that security needs to be in there.

[Sload]

Mercantile is very important. Remember that it is also a skill used when buying artifacts, something they most certainly would do to obtain them.

-Starcrunch

But would they USUALLY be buying their artifacts? No. So, yes, it's useful, but it's not as vital as security.

[Starcrunch]

Yes, it would be. I would guess that a vast majority of their artifacts are purchased from private owners. Kemel-Ze is a very special place, but they can't mount expeditions everywhere and most of the time they will need to get things from people who already own them. As I see it Mercantile and Speechcraft stay. This means that 2 skills need to be changed from Athletics, Acrobatics,
Unarmored, and Blunt Weapon. The two will be replaced by Security and Alchmey.

-Starcrunch

[Anonymous]

Lose acrobatics...and i suppose that blunt weapon would go, i mean if you are mounting an expedition wouldnt you think to take a couple of fighter's guild people?

[Dexter]

That's something I didn't think of, but you're right, the archaeologists probably would hire a few bodyguards to protect them. This would also make for some easy Fighters Guild quests.

[Anonymous]

I dont think they would have thieves along for the ride so security is still necessary, though it would be fun for a Map 2 TG quest to have you swooping in and taking the prize before the archeologists get to it.

[Starcrunch]

I have edit the initial post to reflect that Security seems better than Acrobatics. I have also replaced Blunt Weapons with Alchemy, because I do see the IAS as hiring the FG (or even maybe getting Legion support) for dealing out death when it is needed. Let the debate continue [maybe some more thoughts on ranks?].

-Starcrunch

[Dexter]

Undergraduate (bachelor)
Postgraduate (master)
Enquirer (doctor)
Researcher (docent)
Tutor (professor)
Academic (Head of department)
Expeditor (Dean)
Expedition leader (Archdean)
Project Manager (Prorektor)
Supervisor (Rektor)

I like the higher ranks, but I think the lower ranks could be a little more "grunty" sounding. The first rank could be something like "digger". You would have to start out doing the bitchwork, like digging up stuff here, moving rubble there, searching through entire ruins for one specific item, before you got to do the cool stuff like actually examine the artifacts.

[Gez]

Security is a necessity for them, so many old doors and chests are locked and traped.

As for ranks, I propose this:

9 - Head Expeditor
8 - Expeditor
7 - Junior Expeditor
-- As Stalker said

6 - Archaeologist
5 - Explorer
4 - Treasure Finder
3 - Treasure Seeker
2 - Assistant
1 - Digger

The proposed progression makes you start as a grunt, then you become a sort of "tomb raider", as the IAS acknowledges your skills in finding ancient items while still denying you the full dignity of an actual enlightened scholar. Reaching the status of Archaelogist is thus the pinacle of one's research career, with the Expeditor ranks once you join the top-level hierarchy.

[Animunculi]

Security is a necessity for them, so many old doors and chests are locked and traped.

As for ranks, I propose this:

9 - Head Expeditor
8 - Expeditor
7 - Junior Expeditor
-- As Stalker said

6 - Archaeologist
5 - Explorer
4 - Treasure Finder
3 - Treasure Seeker
2 - Assistant
1 - Digger

The proposed progression makes you start as a grunt, then you become a sort of "tomb raider", as the IAS acknowledges your skills in finding ancient items while still denying you the full dignity of an actual enlightened scholar. Reaching the status of Archaelogist is thus the pinacle of one's research career, with the Expeditor ranks once you join the top-level hierarchy.

I think Treasure Finder and Treasure Seeker are the only ones that don't suit. These names hint more to looters than archeologists. Treasure Finder and Treasure Seeker mean pretty much the same thing anyway.

[Sload]

1. Hireling
2. Assistant
3. Senior Assistant
4. Junior Archeologist
5. Archeologist
6. Senior Archeologist
7. Junior Expeditor ( Is there a better word for this, it sounds..off)
8. Expeditor
9. Senior Expeditor

[Haplo]

7 - Maybe 'Expeditor's Assistant'.