On Stirk

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On Stirk

Post by Sload »

THIS POST IS BEING UPDATED WITH SLOAD'S VERSION OF THE QUEST. OTHER VERSIONS AND OTHER THINGS OF DISCUSSION ARE LOCATED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE THREAD




I. The Department of Backstory

In the Merethic Era before recorded history, the island of Stirk had a small Aldmeri fort. This fort was abandoned after a short time and more or less forgotten, except for the occasional ship's crew resting in its ruins. Eventually, the Yoku who come to Hammerfell use the island as a burial place for their dead criminals. The fort's ruins are buried by then, but they are uncovered by the Yoku digging a new body pit. Either being effected by Aldmer magick, or being superstitious of this strange underground hall, the Yoku stop burying their dead there. While the reason why is forgotten to time, to this day legends of dead Redguard criminals haunting Stirk remains.

A Dragon Break and some centuries later, the Thrassian Plague strikes and Bendu Olo of Anvil calls the forces of Tamriel to destroy the Sload. One surviving Sload named Y'vaknir hopes to continue his arts in solitude, just like N'gasta would in the distant future on Stros M'kai. Y'vaknir was found not long after his practice began, and he was killed by Olo's army. His lich servant, calling himself Maugrue the Steward and claiming to wait for Y'vaknir's return, finds one of his documents on necromancy and learns the art well enough to summon himself servants who assist him and live with him in the ancient remains of the Ayleid fort.

Time passes. The Remans and the Potentates rise and fall. It is the day of Tiber Septim, the aspiring ruler of all of Tamriel and one of the fiercest generals ever to live. Anvil no longer has a navy like it did in the days of Bendu Olo, though it is still the main dock for the Imperial navy, and Tiber quickly realizes that its capture by his current enemy, the Aldmeri Dominion, would open up the whole of Colovia, the western of the two Cyrodiil states. He could not allow this, and so he had a fort built on Stirk for protection. Ironically, the island that had originally been inhabited by the Altmer and Bosmer's ancestors now was maintained to defend from them. This fort, eventually named Fort Stirk after Armondian Stirk, the military leader placed in charge of the island, is able to send word to Anvil of an attack and also attack such ships from behind.

After the war ends and the Empire is declared, the now aged Armondian sees a chance to earn a fair bit of gold. The island feels the warm Abecean tides and sun, and is a beautiful little paradise. He buys property rights from the Empire and has manors constructed. They are sold to rich families, mainly from Cyrodiil, and it is quickly turned into a resort town. More recently, another entrepreneur found gold north of the city. Not telling Armondian's descendants of his discovery, he buys the land cheap and builds himself a mine with poor working conditions which is the reason for the discontent the island is now facing.

After all of this time, Maugrue the Steward still livse with his undead minions, now deep under the earth with no way to escape, waiting for Y'vaknir's spirit to return to him and claim what he calls Y'vassa for his own and eventually bring the dead - or so Maugrue believes - Sload customs back to life. During the heat of all the current trouble, a wayward mine passage has found itself dangerously close to Y'vassa, and the moaning can be heard in the lower parts of the mines. A miner named Samalt, coincidentally the brother of Marks (the rebel), is very curious about these moanings, and is the only one who will go into the lowest parts of the mine. In town, meanwhile, Cartello Stirk and his guards are worthless to enforce good conditions in the mine or stop the mysterious robberies in the city, and all of Stirk's history is about to burst forth in a gush of insane quest!

II. Characters

Nobles

The Eulius family is most interested in these events, especially the matriarch Horacia. Here's there current family tree.

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                  Unnamed Man--+--Unnamed Woman
                               |
                         +-----+-----+
                         |           |
Unnamed Woman--+--Unnamed Man    Horacia Eulius
               |
         +-----+-----+
         |           |
Alenion Eulius     Amarion Eulius
Horacia Eulius (WHORE-ay-she-uh YOO-lee-us) - You may remember her from my failed idea, I just liked the name and the character's basic identiy. She's the main activist in stopping this crime spree. A very matronly woman and the only character I am absolutely adamant about the appearance of; I've already made her rather homely face. She is getting fed up with the guard's uselessness.

Alenion Eulius (AGH-len-ee-on YOO-lee-us) - A historian who is very interested in the history of Stirk. The onle one who knows about the original Aldmeri structure, and who finds out that a Sload was found and killed there during the Thrassian War.

Amarion Eulius (AGH-mar-ee-onYOO-lee-us) - Alenion's brother. Also interested in history, but not in the booky way. He's an adventurer, and Alenion's a more stay-at-home guy. They make a good enough team.

Miners

Marks (Full Name: Marksinn) (MARX) - Angsty rebel. Rather than writing long and boring papers about a new political structure that could change the world, this revolutionary has taken to stealing things from the people he believes to be responsible for his problems and causing mischief. This is all well and good, but there's been some crossed wires and the noblefolk aren't actually responsible for the situation at the mine.

Samalt (SAM-alt) - Marks' older brother. He's a very down to earth fellow who accepts his place in the mine (whether he likes it or not), but is willing to help his brother and have some good fun. He's also very curious about the moaning in the newer sections of the mine.

Guards

Lieutenant Orenius Philo (ORE-en-ee-us PHI-lo) - A very busy lieutenant who is being heckled by Horacia Eulius and has way too much needing to be done. His forces are undermanned and not able to search the robberies well enough.

4 Other unnamed guards

Other Character

Captain Cartello Stirk (Car-TELL-oh) - An ineffective captain who has almost no guards at his disposal and doesn't really care about the richies outside his fort. He doesn't even know much about the state of the town because he's such a terrible leader.

Therander Polle THAIR-and-er Pole) - Breton owner of the Polle Gold Mine. An asshole, a crook, and a bookcooker. Treats his employees like floormats and doesn't care that half of his miners are dead. After all, he can always get more.

Maugrue the Steward MOG-roo) - A long dead lich created by the long dead Sload Y'vaknir. He has spent the past two eras waiting for his beloved master's spirit to return and claim the underground kingdom as his home.

Orandos Ore-AN-dose - Maugrue's wraith servant. Really only has one scene.

Drunk Tom (Full Name: Tomaeus Albin) - Drunk messanger and gatewatcher for Pole, just does what he says. Could be used for comedy.

Brodey (Full Name: Brodigoth) BRO-dee - Thief who only does things for money and isn't involved in "the cause

Fears-the-Dark - Argonian accused of vandalism

Father Ambrogio Am-BRO-jee-oh - Priest at the chapel.

III. Quest Outline (Stage A)

Summary of Stage A: You learn about the factions.

Eulius Brothers and Samalt Pre-Path

1. Amarion will tell you that his brother Alenion is looking for an assistant.

2. Alenion explains that he believes he has found documentation of a fort here under the reign of the Aldmer. He has heard a report of a miner named Samalt who has found some strange things in the lower parts of Polle Gold Mine.

3. Samalt will explain that they found what looked like an old door buried in the wall while digging a new tunnel. The door appears to be sealed, but could probably be picked. When the player gets it open through multiple means I haven't clarified yet, he will find what looks like a small tower room for an old fort, confirming that there was once an Aldmer structure there.

4. Amarion and Alenion will suggest you speak to their aunt (See Noble Path)

5. Samalt will suggest you speak to Marks. (See Miner Path)

Noble Path

1. Anyone you talk to in town will mention the robberies. It becomes a topic. They with either tell you that Cartello isn't living up to the name of Armondian and his family and that they are very disappointed or that Horacia Eulius is the one who is most upset about these events.

2. Horacia Eulius will expound on the problem, directing the player towards Orenius, hoping he or she will annoy the captain into agreeing. (The player now has been introduced to the stance of the Nobles)

3. Orenius talks about his overworked staff and says that if the player wants to help further the robberies, he should get another complaint about a miner vandalizing something at the mine. (The player now has been introduced to the stance of the Guards)

4. At the Polle Gold Mine, there is an aged miner sitting outside who gives the player the basic information about the mine - that Polle is a bitch, the mine is unsafe, and Marx is the one to talk to about what the miners are doing. (Basics of the stance of the Miners)

5. Marx doesn't like the player, and tells him if he wants to help the pigs he needs to speak to Polle. Other miners say that Marx doesn't trust outsiders. If the player talks to Polle, he'll tell them it was an Argonian called Friend-of-Dark "or something kind of like that" (his name is actually Fears-the-Dark), and he wrote "DRES" in sheep blood on the wall (with Blood decals, thanks PoHa).

6. Fears-the-Dark is also a claustrophobe, making for a terrible miner. He admits to the paint, and says he wrote it because of the slavelike conditions of the mine. The player can sympathize with him or try to arrest him (F-t-D will attack). Marks will trust the player if he does the former.

So the player now knows about the three different factions and can make his choice - will he join the common man in his quest to get revenge against the rich? will he join the harrassed guard in trying to keep the town under control? or will he join the vigilante and stop this terrible crime spree that the guard is being useless about? Ofcourse, the two paths I haven't written yet will give the player the story starting from other points, which gives each faction an equal chance of being joined.

Miner Path

1. If you go to the mine, Polle will just be trying to sell you some of the gold he has. Talking to any of the miners will, of course, tell you about how Marx is their leader and prompt you to talk to him. He is angsty, but asks you to do him a favor. He wants you to hide Fears-the-Dark so that the guards won't drag him off, and he can try to make his way back to Argonia. He's already set up a quick correspondence with a ship going to Senchal, and they will be there at midnight.

2. Escort F-t-D to the ship, so he can escape. Unfortunately, a guard was at the lighthouse, and you will be caught, though F-t-D will get away on the ship.

3. Lieutenant Orenius will speak about his difficulties and explain that he only was going to send someone to deal with F-t-D to appease the captain, who was surprisingly interested in anything Polle complained about (Hint: He's getting some palmgreasing). He has a lot on his plate and all that, so he would like it if the player would do him the favor of calming Horacia Eulius down. If he doesn't the player will be jailed and all that.

4. The player goes to speak to Horacia Eulius, who is terribly distraught. She calms down if you speak to her properly, but rants about the lack of crime. She thanks you for your kind words and would love it if you helped her.

So through this one the player is introduced to the three factions, and they can chose who to go back to.

Guard Path

(Since this is pretty much the same thing in a different order, I was much mroe brief)

1. The player speaks to Lieutenant Orenius. He explains his situation and asks the player to calm poor Horacia Eulius.

2. Player does so, blah blah blah, she tells him to go report back to Orenius that she will be working on the problem herself rather than bother him all the time.

3. Thank goodness, says old Orenius! Now, please, go deal with some vandalism at the Polle Gold Mine.

4. Talk to Marks, talk to Polle, talk to Fears-the-Dark who says he is innocent. Choose if he's innocent or guilty.

Now you can take sides.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/stanley/StirkSPC01.png[/img]
(Assume that there is a red arrow in the opposite direction everywhere there is a black arrow.)

You'll notice one major discrepancy with the text and the imagine. In the image, I have updated it so that no matter what path you take you can chose to take Fears-the-Dark to the ship, rather than just let him go.

IV. Quest Outline (Stage B)

Summary of Stage B: Player can work for all three factions, but by the time it is done they are locked into working as part of a single group.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/stanley/StirkSPC02.png[/img]

V. Quest Outline (Stage C)

Summary of Stage C: Main part of the quest. The player makes necessary discoveries and leads up to the climax.

Zaphod=Player. Eaten by a grue=Cannot complete the quest.
I was vague on some parts mostly because of laziness. I promise I have an idea of many different options for all the different quests and they will be written out in time.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/stanley/StirkSPC03.png[/img]

VI. Quests Outline (Stage D)

Summary of Stage D: The climactic scene in Y'vassa.
1. Everyone is arguing in the entrance to the tunnel in the fort.

2. 4 zombies with an assortment of differing body parts remaining appear from the tunnel. "Other Guard," Amarion, and Samalt all rush to the defense. After they're killed, Samalt says "Now we know what that moaning was."

3. The wraith Orandos shows up. Here is his dialogue:

Code: Select all

     Intruders!  You stand now at the entrance to the kingdom of Y'vassa, which only the dead may inhabit. You are in luck, Maugrue the Steward has mercy on you.
     If four will follow me, there is a chance for you to live.  My master wishes to speak with the living who have inhabitted the Y'vaknir's island in our absense.

Response topics:
1. Who are you?
     I am only a servant.  Maugrue is my master, and he will explain everything. Follow me.
2. Who is Maugrue the Steward?
     My master.  He will explain everything in time. Follow me.
3. Y'vassa?  Y'vaknir?  What are you talking about.
     It is neither my place nor my duty to explain. Follow me.
     Come, Maugrue will make everything clear.
4. "Other Guard," Amarion, and Samalt will follow. One will urge you to come.

5. Zombies, Skellies, Ghosts, oh my! They're filling this ruin to the brim. The wraith magickally seals the door behind him. They are in a large chamber with a table that has five chairs at it (two on each side, one at the end). Maugrue the Steward is sitting in the one at the end. His dialogue:

Code: Select all

     Ah, welcome to Y'vassa, my humble home. Please, have a seat.
(3 other characters sit, player is forced to as well player cannot move for the duration of this "cutscene")
     There we are.
     Now, I imagine you are wondering why you are here.
     My name is Maugrue, and I have lived in this hall for a time unknown.  I live and I wait.
     I wait for the return of my master, Y'vaknir the Sload.  Many years ago, an evil man named Bendu Olo destroyed the land of the Sload, and Y'vaknir fled here for safety.
     Shortly after granting me lichdom, Y'vaknir was found by Olo and slaughtered.  I, however, survived.
     So I waited for eons, raising the other bodies found on this island to build a kingdom for Y'vaknir.
     Finally, he did return, but these ancient bodies are too rotten for his spirit.  I needed fresh meat.
     And so I have found it atlast. (pulls out of conversation with player)
     (To whatever character is on the player's side)
     You, stand!  Yes, you will be the one.  You will be priveleged enough to hold Y'vaknir's soul.
6. A ghost rushes for Other Guard, fading as it goes. They drop dead. Maugrue says

Code: Select all

     There now, Y'vaknir.  I have your body for you.
7. Other Guard is revived. He begins to speak.

Code: Select all

     Thankyou, Maugrue.  You have remained faithful to me for so long.
     I can only do one thing for you in return.
     You and your children will feast, like never before!  Attack the living.  Let these three be just the first of their meals.
8. Player can once again move, and should, because all the zombies, skellies, and ghosts WANT 2 EAT UR BRAINZ!

9. Super-mega battle with the Zeds. When they're all dead, the key to a chamber Y'vaknir and Maugrue escaped to is on Orandos' body, and the player is told by the surviving others or a journal entry to go there and finish them off.

10. Maugrue is dead, Y'vaknir tells the player

Code: Select all

     Fool. Did he really think I would let him remain, after all the time he had controlled the others?
     No, he would have been too likely to defect.  Besides, he tasted delicious.
     But what is this?  You have destroyed all of my citizens!  Fool, I can revive them in time (and there (is another/are two more) bod(y/ies) for my use as well).
     I cannot let such a crime go unpunished.  You must die.  I hope you will be a better fight than Maugrue.
11. Kill him for the win!

VII: Quest Outline (Stage E)When I refer to total pot, I mean about what the player's reward is worth. The reward is only given to players of that faction.

After you come out everyone will be gone except for another unimportant guard (probably not even named). He'll tell you that they're all upstairs talking to Captain Cartello.

When the player enters, he will be frozen (again). All the guards are there and Orenius is speaking to Cartello. Cartello is stuttering between Orenius' acusations and finally admits to accepting money from Polle to ignore the poor conditions of his mine.

When the player speaks to Orenius, he will tell him the rest of the story is best left to the others. If the player is a guard he will give him Armondian Stirk's Longsword and enough gold to make it equal to the total pot.

When the player speaks to Horacia, she'll tell him that she is terribly sorry for the miners and the condition they were in. She has made sure that Polle will be dealt with and she is very greatful for the player's help. She plays the player the total pot, minus the worth of the Sloadish Mace. She suggests the player speak to Alenion, who will finish his history (and publishes it later. It should be available for purchase from him or from the bookseller in Hammerfell cities nearby enough). He will give the player the Sloadish Mace he found.

When the player goes to the mine, Drunk Tom will excitedly tell him that Polle is being confronted at last. At Polle's place, a guard to make the arrest and the miners are all there confronting him. Polle is confronted similar to Cartello and when they're done, Marks will give the player his share of Polle's worth, equal to the total pot.

Both Marks and Horacia will speak on how they didn't communicate, despite being only a few minutes away, and how if they had none of this mess would have happened. They both are astounded that they were arguing over this when they should have been looking into the fact that there were undead right underneath them instead.

Note: In any reference to a secret passage from the mine to the fort, it now goes to the chapel, where Father Ambrogio misguidedly allows the miners to pass.
Last edited by Sload on Tue May 09, 2006 11:46 pm, edited 21 times in total.
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Nomadic1
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Keep in mind that I do not have Oblivion. Here's an idea building on from something you said:

Stirk is an island ruled by some Lordly or Baronial family (Family A). Also on the island is another family which doesn't rule, but wants to desperately (Family B). All the soldiers have been sent to the mainland to defend against the Daedra per order of the empire. Family B sees its chance, but can't do things thuggishly.

As it turns out, there is an enchanted item (Item X) of fame buried on the island, and somehow the Mages Guild has discovered someone is looking for it. They inform the Family A (to whom they are very loyal) who immediately suspect Family B.

When the PC arrives on the island, they are told the Fighter's Guild is looking for skilled warriors to fill the void left by the gaurds being sent to the mainland and defend against possible Daedric portals, thugs arriving, and any pirates taking advantage of the situation. The PC signs up, and through options ends up loyal to either Family A or B. During the quests, the PC is also introduced to the Theives' Guild and the Nine Divines Cult.

As it turns out both Family A and B know someone is looking for Item X, and they suspect each other - neither was actually looking for it. Depending on their loyalties, the PC will find themselves involved with Family A or B through contacts in the Fighter's Guild. If the PC sides with A, they are sent to the Mages Guild to help them stop B. If the PC sides with B, they are sent to infiltrate the Mages Guild and help them stop A. Eventually suspicion falls on the Cult as their actions on the island start appearing suspicious.

Either way, it eventually works out that a Sload necromancer was actually looking for Item X, who finds it before the PC can stop them and intends to use it to help capture the souls of the entire island for favours with the King of Worms or Clavicus Vile. The PC is then involved in an uber fight with Sloadie. When killed, the PC takes Item X, and can kill Family A or Family B, or both, or any variety of outcomes. Throughout the time, the Thieves Guild eventually is discovered to be siding with Family B (how B found out about someone looking for Item X), and the Cult keeping the peace.

***

This would require the island to have a fairly established settlement. It would need all three guilds, a Cult shrine or temple, and two manors. Also some cool hidden dungeons, maybe Dwarvish or ancient Hammerfellian, for the item to be in.
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Post by Stalker »

Have in mind that we don't have Nif tools and probably won't have them in quite a while so we must eliminate the use of new meshes completly.
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Post by Morden »

Agreed. Avoid new meshes...we'll need our modellers working on Hammerfell architecture anyways.

Try not to think of anything too epic. We should keep the island, the towns, the quests very small. Perhaps the quests can flesh out an island atmosphere of tension, nervousness and fear, without having the PC overthrow the rulers or some such thing. There could be large overshadowing plot, but the PC doesn't have to be a part of it.

I would prefer making an island filled with small towns such as Seyda Neen, and Pelegiad, and learning how the citizens of both these places interact on the island during a time of instability. As opposed to having a large complicated city-state island filled with plots of politics and monarchy. There's plenty of room for that in Hammerfell.
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Post by Sload »

Do you really think its large enough for more than one town? I was thinking of a town the size of like Firewatch and that would fill it up.
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Post by Morden »

You could fit both Seyda Neen and Peligiad inside of Firewatch. ;) Two small villages on either side of the island with wilderness and an interesting road between them would give Stirk a diverse yet quaint feeling.
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Post by Sload »

I doubt that claim because both of those cities are two cells :P

In any case, that would leave Stirk without an actual government, unless it was just at a fort. I really think having a city-state town like a smaller Anvil or Kvatch or whatever else is in Cyrodiil would be good. It wouldn't have any guilds, but it would have a chapel, inn, prison, and some shops.

And without a large city, there really isn't a way to have an upper-class.
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Post by Stalker »

Well Stirk must have something on it to justify the existant of a city-state...
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Post by Morgoth »

Morden wrote: I would prefer making an island filled with small towns such as Seyda Neen, and Pelegiad, and learning how the citizens of both these places interact on the island during a time of instability. As opposed to having a large complicated city-state island filled with plots of politics and monarchy. There's plenty of room for that in Hammerfell.
What if we never finish Hammerfell? That's the point, we should really try to do the works with this, as our first official release. An involving plot, even on a small island, can be extremely fun to play. Look at Solstheim. I agree with Sload on ths one. And, new meshes can be introduced, if they are absolutly needed. (In fact, we'll need a Sload mesh.) My qustion is, what is the final outcome of the quest, and what real significance does Item X have with the two families. Actually, what would the item be used for at all?
Last edited by Morgoth on Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Morden »

An involving plot, even on a small island, can be extremely fun to play.
I never said there shouldn't be one. You can do this without epic quests which involve the rise and fall of monarchs and demi-gods.
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Post by Sload »

For clarity because the discussion in IRC may have given this impression, I don't think there is any need of "demi-gods" or "monarchs," unless a monarch is someone in charge of Stirk and only Stirk.
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Post by Stalker »

I'll repeat it here. Stirk being a city-state has no backing up because city-state suggest being independent, self-sufficient and able to support a big population. And why would Empire suddenly want an idependent city watching over Anvil and with possibility to join the enemies of Empire and simply block Anvil ?
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Post by Morden »

I'll repeat it here. Stirk being a city-state has no backing up because city-state suggest being independent, self-sufficient and able to support a big population. And why would Empire suddenly want an idependent city watching over Anvil and with possibility to join the enemies of Empire and simply block Anvil ?
City states don't have to be powerful. They need only to be sustainable through trade, commerce, and natural resources... in a moderately defensible position.. an Island is perfect. Believe it or not, you don't actually need a large population.

Questwise, I think I'd be happy with anything so long as it was regionally focused. That pretty much negates anything too insane. And for further clarity, I don't really mind what shape the city/village takes, so long as we do it well, and we do it right. :D
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Post by Sload »

If you know a way Stirk can be dependent on a city in mainland Cyrodiil without being totally prohibited in what we can do and without changing the original game, I'd love to hear it.

I'd also like to understand why being independent means being huge and allpowerful to you, Stalker. Monocco certainly isn't.
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Post by Stalker »

Why there must be a fort there

Let's move back in time to the war between Aldmeri Dominion and Cyrodiilic Empire.
Altmer were known for their good navy. They could have taken only 2 routes to attack Cyrodiil (and Anvil being the obvious target to kill Cyrodiilic navy with one blow):
1) Directly to Anvil
2) Near the coast of Valenwood hoping from port to port

In case one an assault launched from Stirk would weaken the navy or Stirk could be simply used to spot the fleet and warn the mainland.

In case two the fleet from Stirk could simply rape the forces attacking Anvil in the ass.

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Post by Stalker »

Sload wrote:I'd also like to understand why being independent means being huge and allpowerful to you, Stalker. Monocco certainly isn't.
Fucking because this a VERY important strategic place and to resist the Empire from taking over you must be powerful. And you tell me I can't read while you blantly ignore my posts :\
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Post by Sload »

Okay okay, I think I see the problem at last.

Our terminology is screwed up. By "independent city-state" I meant - and I think anyone else who used the term meant - a city state that is part of Cyrodiil and at the same level of Anvil or Kvatch. It is loyal to the Dragon and it is part of the Imperial Province. It is the exact same thing as one of these cities, but much smaller.
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Post by Stalker »

That's basically a big city. Still the fort is essential there. And to support a fort AND a city the island must have something in it.
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Post by Sload »

Great, progress is being made. A fortified docks and then having a fort/palace thing where the governor lived and worked and also where the main fort stuff was sounds good to me.

I imagine mining could support the city, and because fun is greater than realism to a point where your disbelief is still suspended, we don't need to go into the nitty-gritty of the economics that won't even be included in the game. Simply, there could be something big to mine and some fish to feed the people and everything would be fine. If there aren't any ore models, we can have an excuse for the player not to go to the mine for some reason.
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Post by Adanorcil »

I agree. The term "city-state" is very popular in the fantasy genre and even in the Elder Scrolls, which is otherwise often very non-conformistic.

Real city-states were for example the ancient Greek polises. They were cities with nearby lands that formed its own kind of kingdom. In Tamriel, large cities such as Sentinel, Wayrest and Daggerfall are city-states. They are large cities which clearly control a part of the Empire, yet are subject to Imperial supremacy. Personally, I think that Stirk is too small to be a city-state, lest it controls area on the mainland.
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Post by Morden »

What about the possibility of a feifdom of some sort. Those exist in the Empire. Eitherway we have a great deal of latitude with Stirk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiefdom
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Post by Sload »

Yes! Fiefdom is the word I should have used all along. There's the lord who serves the Empire like any normal person and he rules his little island city that fights of pirates and used to fight off Mer.

EDIT: And if Stirk is on the southern side there probably should be a small lighthouse on the northern side that was built before they built up Stirk so that they could watch for any attacks they thought would come from Hammerfell during the revolution at Stros M'kai, even though none came.
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Post by Stalker »

Stros M'Kai is also a fiefdom. Speaking of Stirk I think to support a fort and a city we'll have to make it at least Stros M'Kai size and looking at the map we can say that it is 4 times as big as Stros M'kai...
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Post by Sload »

Ofcourse, Stros M'kai may have to be upsized, but yes, the island is atleast the size of Stros M'kai's island.
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Post by Sload »

Here's a very basic idea for a beginning tier of one of the sides of the quest. It's an example of how the player's actions can effect things.

Lady Herface is an important character on one side of whatever struggle this is. Before the player can do anything for her, he has to gain her trust because times are hard. There are a few ways this can happen.

1. Her cousin Archibeldo loves pumpkins and hates <insert generic pests>. If the player walks by his house, he will call out and ask him to kill the <generic pests> that have infested his pumpkin patch. If the player does so, he doesn't have to worry about gaining Lady Herface's trust, because she knows he's a decent person for helping out her cousin.

2. If player speaks to Lady Herface before 4 PM the second day he is there, she will tell him that she doesn't trust him, because you can't trust anyone in times like these. She says that there's no one but her old and rather unhealth uncle working at the lighthouse, and asks the player if they'll help her uncle keep watch on the second night the player is there. If they assist her uncle, she'll know they're a good person. If they don't, atleast the ship doesn't sink.

3. The Lady Herface is unavailable between 4 PM and 10 PM on the second day. At 10, she will take a walk across town, and be mugged because of the lack of security. If the player sees and stops the mugging, she will be eternally grateful.

4. If the player missed that chance-meeting and speaks to her after she runs home on their second day at Stirk, she'll beg the player to get her things back, as this has affirmed her belief that something must be done about crime rates in this city without guards.

5. The player may see beggars as soon as they come to shore. If they give them money, she could have heard about it and trust them for this reason.

Clearly, this Lady Herface likes the player for being helpful and clearly a good person, who wants to improve the lives of the people or something. Here is a Sociographic Progression Chart of this example section.

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Post by The Old Ye Bard »

Is there still going to be staight forward misc quests on the island that don't relate to anything else?
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Post by Morden »

Goood first example Sload. We'll know how feasible it is once people have put down the game and start to play in the CS for us :P I really like the diversity and range of options. It reminds me a lot of the original Deus Ex, where you could complete the task any number of ways and its consequences culminate in a variety different endings.

Say on the Isle of Stirk there is a quest where you have to free some prisoners from the local jail. In a hypothetical, and ideal, scenario we want one player on a forum somewhere to say something like:

"I killed the captain in a back alley, took his key, and freed the prisoners"

While another player says:

"I used my charisma and a few septims to charm his disgruntled wife and she got the key for me".

And a third player who does the quest admits:

"I picked the lock on the back door of the building, walked inside, and proceeded to pick the lock on the cell."

Pure replayabilty. I know that you're aware of this already Sload, but I'm just sort of thinking aloud to everyone.
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Post by Sload »

Yes, that's exactly the idea! :D

About Deus Ex, I believe that was Orix's first response. Never played, but if its like this I should.

Also, I've expressed this in a few IRC conversations, but my favorite aspect of any game in history was the schedule aspect of Majora's Mask, in which at different times on different days different NPCs would be in different places. A lengthier, larger, and more complicated version of this would make for the best game ever, so if anyone knows a game heavily based on that kind of thing I'd love to hear about it.

Anyways, yes, having as many ways for the player to do it, and what's more not explicitly giving the player any hints, other than clues like "I hear the guard at the prison's been having marital troubles."

Also, we should probably have only guards at the richest shops, the fort/palace thing, the prison (probably included in the fort) and the docks. That way it's clear that most guards are gone.
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Post by Stalker »

Let's just decide what we'll have on Stirk first. Fort and lighthouse are quite essential (maybe even 2 lighthouses on different sides of the island). But I am still against a city.
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Post by kebra »

İ'm a bit late on this...

İ really like the first idea of a commercial independant city-state.

Stalker, Rhodes (in english ? Rhodos...) was exactly that kind of state and because it was a strategic place all the others powers (Roman, Macedonien, Seleucide...) let it free. Think about switzeland and the place of there banks during all the Europeens wars. (Sload, Monaco is not completely independant from France.)
İ don't like the idea of a feifdom, history proove that a feifs becomes always independant when not under a direct control. And a little independant island let more place for play. Or, it could be a place who is theoricaly a feif, but independant in the fact. That let a lot of space for political plots.

Anyway it must be, or a commercial place (who can be independant) or a military one (under the control of empire)
İ prefer the first solution, because trade don't need big structures.

For the rest i will wait to see Oblivion... Today if my computer accept it.
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Post by Stalker »

Kebra you don't seem to get it. Tamriel is not Earth. On Tamriel there is only one power and that power is Empire. Empire needs ebony ? It conquers Morrowind. Empire needs timber ? It conquers Valenwood. Empire needs Hist resin ? It conquers Argonia. And because "it conquers..." was in the time when Empire was very strong not a single island (especially such strategically placed as Stirk) would remain independant.
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Post by Morden »

Stalker and I discussed the possbility of not exactly a full city, but an Imperial fort with a surrounding town. 'Town' obvously being smaller then a city, but bigger then a village like Seyda Neen. This town could be run by a Lord or governor who is also an Imperial officier. His involvement in the legion is part of his fiefdom. Continued rule over the strategic island in exchange for loyalty and military service.
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

i think that there should be a fort surounded by a small city, like moreden said, but unlike morden i think the town should be around seyda neen sized. i dont want uberness, especialy since there is no mention of it in the PGE.

as for quests, i dont think we need a long quest line. a few quests, say, 5 to tie teh whole thing together would sufice, and then we could have a couple of miscs as well.

(please note that i was to lazy to read teh whole thread)
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Post by The Old Ye Bard »

Actually it would make perfect sense that if Stirk had a town or city that it would be reasonbly big, one because it would be a logical trade route for ships, which would generate alot of money, secondly if it had a fort and govenor i would expect it to be aleast the size of Caldera(sp), thirdly it would need to be a good size because it is the gateway to the west of the Imperial Province.
It would likely also have a census office aswell.
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Post by Sload »

Lady Nerevar wrote:(please note that i was to lazy to read teh whole thread)
Lovely.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about the semantics of how logical a city is. It boils down to everyone filibustering about their opinion of what a large number of imaginary people would or would not do and does not have any factual base that isn't "I think.." disguised as fact. My arguement is based solely on modding.. you know, what we're doing.

Quite simply, a large city is more fun to mod and more fun to play. It is definitely not beyond possibility that a large city has developed on the island, and by "large city" I mean a city that has a chapel, a fort with a prison, an inn, a reasonably sized number of houses, some shops, and a dock. It has no guilds. This will be far more interesting to the player than a trader, a census and excise, and some shacks. I think you can all agree it'll both take more time so that the architecture set will be done and we'll have less waiting and will be more fun to mod for.

In addition, it is more effective to organize how we will mod with a large city and a few non-towns than a small city and a few non-towns. A fort and tiny town cannot possibly sustain a complicated enough social dynamic for the new quest idea to be tested and worked out effectively.

Based on these two arguements, I cannot see a small city being in any way better than a large city. Oh wait, "Blah blah blah, this is my interpretation of a sentence of lore and blah blah blah so it doesn't make sense." If you think a large city is beyond possibility, you clearly don't believe enough.
especialy since there is no mention of it in the PGE.
This I will explain. If you modded a whole province and suddenly remembered there was an island you had forgotten, would you mention your mistake anywhere?
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Post by PoHa! »

As a note, I'd like to point out that each one of the "major cities" that I've visited so far has had a chapel and a castle (a fort with a prison) and a ruler of some sort therein. Now why not talk about the quests more now, eh?
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Post by Orix »

I heartily endorse Sload's view. Economics are restrictive, but a place like this would also make sense. Whats the point of spending time on this place if it doesn't allow for creativity? Our first release should not be some pathetic Seyda Neen Mk 2, it should be impressive, or else people are only going to get the wrong impression about the rest fot he project.

Sload's storyline in mind for the place is imaginative and allows for a heck of a great questline with multiple outcomes (3 fairly powerful people aiming to control the island in a nutshell), but I can only see it making sense in a city, not some shacks.
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Post by Morden »

by "large city" I mean a city that has a chapel, a fort with a prison, an inn, a reasonably sized number of houses, some shops, and a dock.
Thats what I meant by Town.. the few shacks and a C&E is a village like Seyda Neen.. so no more use for ranting.
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Post by Sload »

Oh yeah, here is the brief outline for my idea I sent in IRC.
The governor is an ineffective ass and the people aren't happy. Another wealthy family that has the people's supports plans to take over. Some trading company who profits from some resource on the island also wants control so they are in total control of their resource.
While this is in no way the official idea, it is my idea. Feel free to post your own.

Also, I imagine my Lady Herface example could work well as a member of the second family. She should be Lady Heracia Eulius (Huraysheeuh Yooleeus), and sport a matronly face and a large nose.

Sload,
hoping we've finally gotten over that hitch and can start thinking about what this thread was intended for

PS, morden sniped me
Morden wrote:
by "large city" I mean a city that has a chapel, a fort with a prison, an inn, a reasonably sized number of houses, some shops, and a dock.
Thats what I meant by Town.. the few shacks and a C&E is a village like Seyda Neen.. so no more use for ranting.
Yes, it was intended to be exactly like Seyda Neen, because others had been like seyda neen 4tw
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Post by Indoril »

I have an idea (perhaps not the best one) that might be fun or something: Sload mentioned earlier about the two families quest idea. If there were more than two settlements, say a village on the north side and a village on the south side, with the "castle" between them, maybe each family rules one village and answers to the fiefdom in question. Perhaps with some history of the families feuding with one another before the empire put a stop to it. The Fief-Lord him/herself could be the one you are answering to for the "main" quest.

One other idea is for possible misc. quests to add: Since the Imp. Legion and most fighters would be on the mainland with the imperial army at this point, wouldn't their probably a spur in the crime rate? There could be something about having to find a "jack-the-ripper" sort of criminal running about the island.

Just some thoughts.
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