q1-52-Mis

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q1-52-Mis

Post by Lud »

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q1-52-Mis (#1140)
Faction: Misc
Parent claim: TR_1-37-Tel (#61)
Claimed by: Theo
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Location: 1:(4020, 1473):0
Files: TR_q1-52-Mis_Theo_1.esp; TR_q1-52-Mis_Theo_2.esp

---

4 quests needed for here.
Here are Theo's original ideas; discuss!

Let me suggest 4 quests for Gah Sadrith:
1) There is a helper of Mistress Eldale, who will ask you for bribe to improve your stance with Telvanni. Depending on how much you willf offer him and if you really pay he will change dispositions of certain NPCS. Easy dialogue-journal only quest.
?) In rumors people will direct you to local wisewoman, which wants to speak to you. If you visit her she will tell you very odd and mystic prophecy and will refuse to speak to you anymore. Later some parts of this prophecy may start happening or they don't have to. Depends if I (or someone else) would like to continue in this quest.
2) Nordic Barbarians fiance was kidnapped. You have to ask around (lots of dialogue for local NPCs to make them worth talking to) to find out she was kidnapped by daedric cultists and is held at Yashazmus. You can
I) Go there, rescue her and lead her back to her lover. The lover rewards you with his knowledge of position of some famed weapon + some gold and stuff.
II) Tell the lover and let him save her alone. He rewards you with gold and stuff for your brainwork.
III) Tell the lover and offer to join him in his quest. Fight easily through and have the same result as in I with less effort.
3) There is a necromancer in town. Do some Sherlock Holmes to find out who it is and then I) Report him to inquisitor
II) kill him III) warn him
4) Mistress Eldale likes riddles. Answer her questions with witt to increase her otherwise very low disposition.
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Post by Theo »

I have made quest 1 if someone cares to test it. It is a dialogue only quest as promised, but there is a hell lot of new dialogue while bargaining the bribe so took me quite long. Hope the function are in correct form. I still didn't master the syntax and need to check it with scripting for dummies all the time.
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Post by Lud »

You'll have to come up with a new location for (2) The rest will be fine, if you're ok with them.
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Post by Theo »

I know you count with this ruin for your main quest, but I would like to ask you kindly to move the Daedric septis into another ruin, because:
1) The NPC mentioned (Melie) is already there inside the ruin in the cage. I just follow interior makers plans and explain how did she get there.
2) There is no proper dungeon anywhere near Gah Sadrith. If there was not Yashazmus and that overgrown Dwemer ruin and possibly Sadas plantation there would be no other place to venture for quest. I do not envy the one who will make PT quests as they will all have to be restricted to this small area.
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Post by Lud »

Actually, you're right, I remember seeing that int thread.
Go ahead with making that quest in Yashazmus. (It's not fair for me to take all the best locations anyway ;) )

Oh, and I just remembered something: the wise woman in Gah Sadrith was changed to a commoner, because the "my trade" topic for wise women is spoken from the point of view of an ashlander. You can still implement the quest, but that NPC will need to have some extra dialogie included in your quest esp.
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Post by ch85us2001 »

I'll take a shot at these here.

So, 1 is done, right?

On 4, could I offer some kind of Intelligence boosting item as I reward if you get all of them right? (I'm thinking amulet with 15 pts)


By the way, we are using Map .957, right?
It's not so much working with computers as it is tricking them into doing what you want them to do.

[url=http://z13.invisionfree.com/Chus_Mod_Forum/index.php?]My Mod Site[/url]
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Post by ch85us2001 »

Did a stupid, pressed reply instead of claim.

I'm going senile.
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Post by Theo »

I am actually working on these already, but if you want you can download my latest esp with GS quests in private tavern "Gah Sadrith quest degustation thread" and have a look at it. If you want to continue in my job it is no problem for me, but I have to warn you that the situation is quite messy in Gah Sadrith right now.
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Post by Lud »

It might be better to let Theo keep Gah Sadrith, if he agrees. He has a good handle on the place and what needs doing, etc.

Why not try Gah Ouadaruhn, Bal Oyra or Sadas Plantation?
Nobody has those. Download the latest map1, and walk around the town, getting feel for the place and it's dialogue.
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Post by Theo »

Here is the quest file. Until it is reviewed and compatible bug free version of map 1 is provided I refuse to work on it further.
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Post by Theo »

Well, so far only quest 1 is truly done. There are some parts of quest 2, but it will be more complicated then I expected. I am still not sure about quest 3, if you have any ideas I would be grateful for your help. The possible actors are:

1) Gwynern. An High Elf warlock outside of GS market, who came to study mistress Eldale's arts. Has a lot of dialogue already, perhaps would give you some info only.
2) Ilwen. Telvanni spellsword and hand to mistress Eldale. He has no quest yet and no special dialogue yet.
3) Arellis Loran. Big mouth Dunmer crusader in a pub, who boasts about his famous successes in witchhunting.
4) Eranil. A wichhunter. Arellis Loran's hand and a more down-to-earth companion. He does the thinking part.
5) Adalerine. Mistress Eldale's personal enchanter. But more likely I would use her for quest 4.

I need some ideas mainly for 2,3,4. Thank you.

Quest 4 will be a little bit expanded so that getting of mistress Eldale's favour will be more complicated (other way is doing quest 1 or using standard procedures like increasing personality and speechcraft etc.) so that she even spoke with you (her initial disposition is very low) and so it could be subquest for MQ 1.

I did one more quest above the plan.
- If you speak to Anirwen he will tell you about his idea of a perfect blade and that he will swear his warrior services to anyone who will bring him a sword of his dreams.
- The sword, which he will accept, has been created and put into a shipwreck in a see abyss NW from GS. Location of a sword will be hinted as a reward of quest 2.
- If you recover the sword and give it to Anirwen, he will equip it and pledge is lifelong protection to you.
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Post by Lud »

Hey Theo, what's the story with this? Are you still working on it? You still want it?
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Post by Theo »

I am still waiting all the time for people to submit reviews or at least comments.
I feel uncomfortable about making 4 quests and then someone comes and tells this is all crap - do it from scratch.
As I said 2 quests are finished, 3rd one might be finished quite soon, but the fourth one may take a little bit of time as it is quite epic and needs some non-trivial scripts.
I am a little bit busy with exams right now. Is there some deadline until which it is necessary to submit? I mean is there a huge line of bored reviewers waiting for this quest to review it or I will work on this quest like crazy instead of studying for the exam to make it ASAP and then it will rot in review forums for another one month? That is the question all depends on.
I can finish this until end of February at ease, but can hurry a little bit if there is a reasonably justified rush.
EDIT: (But I will finish the third quest tomorrow though)
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Post by Lud »

A half-finished file can't feasibly be reviewed, as it will have to be merged first to make sure no changes happen after merging. If you could submit a file with just 2 of the quests I'll give it an informal review.
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Post by groza528 »

To answer your question about reviewers, we are just starting the review process, but reviewers are regular modders who can do other stuff to allay their boredom. When you're ready to submit, it probably won't be long before it gets a review, but don't rush if you have real life to contend with.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Theo »

Alright. I will try to submit "mergeable" file with 3 short GS quests sometimes during this week. The long epic quest will be finished until end of February.
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Post by Theo »

And here they come:

TELVANNI MANNERS:
Just speak to Belas Kasihan at Tel Darys Lower Entrance. To test the quest properly be ready to have a lot of gold with you (5000 gp). But I already did and it seems fine.

PERFECT SWORD:
Speak to Anirwen in his house and ask him about perfect sword. Your disposition needs to be above 60 so that he spoke with you about it. The blade he seeks is hidden in Entrenched shipwreck in sea abyss just west of Sadas Plantation (seek properly it is VERY WELL hidden). Its location will be hinted if player finishes the kidnapped fiancee quest.

DUEL OF RIDDLES:
Speak to Ultern in Mistress Eldale's chambers. You may need to do TM ques first or use some Telvanni Bug masks so that Mistress Eldale was even willing to speak to you. The riddles used are just of my head and some of them are quite dull. If you know some better, go ahead and lets discuss them.

LOST FIANCEE:
In next version

WICHHUNT:
Will become part of LF quest.

These are fairly simple quests, but I still need to get used to this kind of moding and soon I will be able to make more complex ones.
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Post by Lud »

Theo, please use the proper naming conventions for new items: TR_m1_Q_whatever. It allows me to merge to main without troubles.
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Post by Theo »

Sorry, I don't know the recent naming conventions. Is there some sticky with these?
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Post by groza528 »

It is in the Quest Guidelines thread, but it's only one line. I missed it too. Basically, journal entries should be TR_m1_[CityInitials]_[NameOfQuest] and everything else you add should be TR_m1_Q_[Description]
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Theo »

Most of Lost fiancee quest is done:

1) Ask townsfolk about Melie to find out Fernil Yantus was the last person to see her
2) Ask about Fernil Yantus to get suspicious that he kidnaped her and that he has some other means to leave the island then the riverstrider service. Finding his boat on shore with a weird amulet.
3) Asking witch-hunter Eranil about the amulet and being told that it is used by Mehrunes Dagon worshipers.
4) By interrogating a jeweler and Belas Kasihan finding out that it was local spellsword Ilwen who enchanted the amulet with Mehrunes Dagon charm and gave it to Fernil Yantus so that he could kidnap Melie.
5) Confront Ilwen to find out that the cults base is at Yashazmus and that is a place where Melie will be sacrificed to Mehrunes Dagon. Ilwen and Fernil Yantus teleport there.

Remains:
- Scripting final climax and rewards
- Writing additional - non essential - dialog and checking for logic
- In game testing
- Review and grammar check

Now I would like Eranil and Alleris Lloran (inquisitor) join you in cleaning out Yashazmus and saving Melie, but I am not sure how to script it. I can make them follow you there, but then NPC can forget about the quest and just walk on map 1 with two badasses on his side until they get killed. If I make them leave you after some time the quest complicates too much.
OR they can teleport to Yashazmus directly and fight the cultist there independentely on your lead, but then they cannot change cells and are not much helpful as Yashazmus have 4 of them full of cultists.
(What to do? And when Melie Ilwen is killed they should stop their actions)

Also there is a chance that Mjording would like to follow you into the ruin to help you save his fiancee (after all he is brave Nordic barbarian), but then he can get killed there and Melie cannot be saved by teleporting back to Gah Sadrith with you as in original version if Mjording will be with you there. There would be lot of alternative endings then.
A) Save Melie before speaking to Mjording first, she teleports to Gah Sadrith and Mjording rewards you there.
B) Save Melie without Mjordings help in the ruin. She teleports to Gah Sadrith and Mjording rewards you.
C) Saving Melie with Mjording. They leave you in the ruin and reward you. (Hard to script)
D) Mjording dies during save attempt. Melie gives you her blessing (she is a healer) and teleports away.
E) You kill Mjording just out of fun and then save Melie without finishing the quest properly. She curses you and commits suicide.
F) The cultist manage to sacrifice Melie. Mjording gets mad at you. (Pehraps this option should not be included not too complicate the quest too much.)

What do you think?
Do you think these options should be included? And how should I script Ilwen and Arellis Lloran so that they helped you effectively at Yashazmus, but nowhere else.
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Post by groza528 »

I love when quests have multiple endings; I definitely think you should add them in. If you're concerned that F may be too complex (in terms of scripting?) then I would say just script it so if you leave the sacrifice room with any cultists still alive, they complete the ritual.

Have Eranil and Lloran teleport to Yashazmus, and *then* trigger them to follow you with dialogue. Put an activator somewhere outside the door, undergroundand if the player gets too far from it, they stop following and wait for you to come back. When the quest is over, have them teleport back to their rightful places (or wherever you want them yo go) on CellChanged.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Theo »

Yes, probably the cleanest solution, but lot of scripting. I just have not to be lazy... :(
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Post by Theo »

And on the top comes "Lost Fiancee". The uploaded ESP is NOT DIRTY. Please leave all the changes in there as they are. I had to change some old dialogue topics as well and even some exteriors slightly so that NPC could follow you smoothly. (No drastic changes though). There are still three unsolved issues:

1) I let Eranil and Arelis Lloran follow you simply as long as you need them wherever you go. If it is too big problem I will try to find some simple solution. Their AI is set to Wander once Ilwen is killed, even when there are some cultist left in another cells of Yashazmus and even if you don't save Melie. Then they disappear when you change the cell completely (their's mission is finished, but perhaps they could give you some nicer goodbye and rewards as well.)

2) If you kill Melie accidentaly before starting the quest you may play the quest and ask people about her as she was still alive until you find out all about her story. Only then your action is revealed. (Perhaps I should add another branch of the quest later.)

3) If you bring Mjording to her prison (the chances that he would survive all the way there are relatively low) he will not detect her and you have to save her alone and then tell him you did, even when he stands few meters from you and gazes at you. I didn't want to complicate that with difficult scripting, although meeting scene could be touching (but he can't get on the ramp anyway so...)

But for now I am fed up with this and would like if somebody kindly tested and reviewed this quest (Initiates by speaking to Mjording in GS Market). Enjoy.
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Post by Theo »

And here comes newer version with fixed bugs and smart solution of problems 1-3, adding even more thrilling action.

After creating my own key of Melie's bracers I realized that one of the former leaders of the cult (now being replaced by Ilwen) had already his version of the key called Shackle key (TR_m1_i2_...) I had to delete it from his inventory, because it would cause mess. The new key is placed on an altar and can be picked up and used to release Melie without having to kill the cultists first (sneak version of the quest and another branching.) Please delete the old key from esm as well as it is redundant now.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I have recently had a check over the versions of these quests included in the latest quest beta, and my report can be found in the thread in the Downloads/Private Testing section.

Should I have a look at the latest versions of these quests, or does nobody care?
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Post by Starcrunch »

We do care :P . In about a weeks time Lud's RL will calm down and quest fixing will commence in earnest. I'd really only worry about reviewing the versions of quests already merged. Testing quests posted in the submission forums usually requires you to do a bit (and maybe a whole lot) of editor work that Lud does when merging.

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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Right, so it's best to wait for the next quest beta to be released?
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Post by Lud »

I like the sound of the promised "thrilling action" :)
Will get to work on merging. (Along with the rest of the completed quest backlog)
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Post by Theo »

Great. Make sure your character is 30+ level to play this as the cultists in Yashazmus are pretty tough already and not even your companions can handle the final showdown without your substantial aid.
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Post by Lud »

merged
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Post by theviking »

Error reports for these quests:
"Gah Sadrith: Telvanni Manners"
Fairly simple, but only very nitpicky things to point out. (Groza tells me that English is not the native language of the Gah Sadrith quester, so all these languagey errors (which are the majority of what I've got to report here) are excusable, but need fixing)
Firstly, the journal entries call Belas a man, and secondly dialogue and journal entries in general could do with some grammar check ups etc.

"Gah Sadrith: The Perfect Sword"
Again, very simple, but also mind-bogglingly hard aswell. Perhaps it's intentional, which is fair, but surely some hint as to where the sword might be is only fair? I had absolutely no idea as to where it would be without checking the CS. It could have been anywhere on map 1! Perhaps savants could say "I have heard of such a sword", or something, and say that it was lost when the warrior Roderick was drowned on a boat voyage etc., just so the player knows to look in shipwrecks.
Again, some grammar checking required.The clue as where the sword can be found will be revealed as a reward for the last of GS quests - Lost Fiancee.

"Gah Sadrith: Riddles"
Nothing too bad here, again very simple.
Once more, grammar checking needed.
Also, just one general 'complaint' is that there are two very 'flippant' journal entries, one where the player says "But what the hell!", and another where the player says "Eldale will consider me mentally retarded forever."

have tested the version of "Lost fiancee" quest I made (Gah Sadrith) and found these errors:- The dialogue topics in greeting 5: "I WILL BE PART OF LOCAL QUEST..." May be finally removed. (And should be).
- Some of the greetings 5,1 and 7 are at the bottom of the list due to previous merge. Perhaps it could cause some collision with less important greetings. I am not sure.
- Starcrunch remade Llernele Yantus home, but in this version of map 1 it is not linked to exterior, which is bad as you need to go there as a part of the quest. Also Tel Darys is not linked properly, but this is just a side note as it has to do nothing with this quest.
- I have changed the outcome of the reward. When you finish the quest, Mjording now tells you only the first part of the rewarding dialogue and offers you to tell you of the 'perfect sword'. That topic already exists, because of the linked quest. If you click it, he tells you the whole story.
If you click it once more (Journal 110) he summarizes the plot and tells you the location more directly. If you click if before (Journal <100) He tells you that he perhaps knows about such sword, but will tell you only after you help him to save Melie.
His greeting 5 for Journal 110 stays the same.
This way it is: A) more elegant B) You get your reward even if you are sick or naked C) connects the quest to "perfect sword" quest in more obvious way.
- The biggest problem is the Yashazmus. The entrance I made was deleted by Ludovic and he just removed the obstacles from the old stairs, but because of their rotation it is impossible to climb them. The another entrance is accesible only through levitation. I do not know if this is an error or if Yashazmus was meant to be accesible by mages only, but it sucks. There should be at least one proper entrance there so that you could enter it without levitation or acrobatics at 100 and so that some NPC could follow you in there.
- Also the forcefield inside was meant to keep player INSIDE the ruin until he finishes the quest (so that he does not lead his companions outside) - not to keep him OUTSIDE. That is why the doormarker was placed BEHIND it, not IN FRONT OF it.
It also disabled levitation and teleport, however now I realized player could enter through the second entrance and leave again so it would cause great mess (my fault, I didn't realize there is another entrance).
I suggest moving this field to the Shrine level (with only one entrance) and putting Eranil and Arelis in there. This way you cannot lead them out of there or leave until you do your business.
(The doormarker must be placed BEHIND the wall.)
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Post by Theo »

I think all those things have been fixed in the most recent version. I will upload it again just to make sure it is the correct one.
EDIT:
I am afraid I do not have the file anymore - it has been already merged into newest version of map 1 as the fixes needed for the quest to work (ie. linking the interiors) required modification of map 1. If you want to test it, you need to use this file.
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Post by theviking »

TESAME: Clean

Fits exterior: No



Northmarker set: No
Loading errors: No



Review: Wow it takes long to quest review. We can certainly use some help here. I think the following tactic works the best: One reviewer fixes the dialogue and spelling, as that takes enough time, and another one checks if the quest works properly (checks in dialogue and in the scripts if the quest works). This is only the lost fiancee and that has taken me long enough to check for grammar and spelling.

Comments This is where I would normally give a rating, but I haven't even begun with fixing the actual quest. With quests there should be no rating, we should just try to fix everything and if the quest works, it is good enough.

Rating
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Post by Theo »

Unfortunate Viking! What file did you review!? It is the wrong one! In my post in this thread I have explicitly said that the actual (and functional) version of the quest has been already merged into map1.vxx file (in internal downloads).
This quest you have uploaded might be free of grammar errors, but will lead to logical errors in the plot under certain circumstances (ie player first going to Yashazmus and then speaking to Mjording, etc.), as there are complex interactions and conflicts with other Gah Sadrith quests.
What sense does it have to spend time reviewing quests for grammar, if you are not sure whether they work properly in the first place?
Well, Perhaps I could export the dialogue and import it to the correct file...
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Post by theviking »

Well, for me it just was testing out quest reviewing and making a start with that. I don't have a lot of knowledge how quests work so this was the best I could review. Let this be a lesson: Wait with merging of a quest until it has been properly reviewed!
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Post by groza528 »

The quest reviews that have been done have been post-merge because a) they were done by outsiders who didn't have access to the review board and b) quest claims were required to have no cell references, and therefore any NPCs etc that had to be added for the quest to work were only added upon merging. The latter condition has been repealed, and I think that it is a very good policy to merge *after* reviewing, but don't fault Theo for this.

For the record, if I am not very much mistaken the current state of map 1 is that there are two files available in the internal downloads section; one has some quests merged and the other does not. I recommend that once we get quests reviewed more officially, we merge them into the one that currently doesn't contain any quests, instead of trying to figure out where to update the one with quests.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Theo »

I am sorry for the trouble this might have caused, but it is probably not completely my fault. Quests have been merged into map 1 by Lud so that anybody could test their functionality. As there are still some quests which do not work and require some fixing (among those I know about: Disobedient husband, Kill or be Killed, Which witch, Clannfear in Firewatch...), I took initiative in testing my own quests and fixing them myself and if I didn't miss anything they should work fine.
Because of the policy of non-altering maps I made the changes directly to the file and saved it as a new version alongside with many other fixes of map 1.
The Lost Fiancee is very complicated quest with lots of branching and possible ends as non-linear as possible and it took me quite a while to figure out how to make it so that it worked as I imagined.
I suggest this... Because I have made many fixes to version 22, which are not in MAP1 (setting proper AI to some outlaws, making dialogue checks, fixing floaters, connecting interiors in Gah Sadrith and many others) I suggest that I unmerge all quests (beside mines, which are most up to date in there) from version 22 and you can use it to merge new ones in there.

EDIT: Or if it was possible just to use this file for testing the merged quests and fixing them right in there it would be more convenient then to merging them again to map1.
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Post by theviking »

My head cracked at this puzzle: At the one end we want the quests to be reviewed properly and indiviually (or claims-wise) and at the other end we dont want to lose the fixes that have been done. Isn't it possible to review the fixed quests themselves? And I believe there is a way this can be done. You open the claim with TESAME and then you begin to review the quest itself in the map1quest version. The only problems i foresee with this method are that some aspects of the quest are difficult to find in the big map1 esp like the greetings. The other problem is that two reviewers simutaniously begin to fix a quest with the map1quest version. That makes two different versions which should be hard to merge. But because it is very hard to find quest reviewers, I think the second problem isnt an issue. For new quests it should be the policy to review it first and then merge it.
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Post by Theo »

It probably was not the luckiest decision to review quests in this way, but it has been made and I took it as a matter of fact.
But the situation is following: As far as I am concerned only with functionality, I have tested many other quests merged to the quest version and they work perfectly (those which do not can be fixed quite easily by competent person, usually just wrong references in the scripts). So what I suggest is to do this:
1) Assign one person responsible for map1Q quests. I volunteer to take this responsibility as I have produced the most recent version of map1, but first I have to finish my final exams so I am afraid I will not have much time until end of September.
2) Let several people (possibly members applying for moder status could prove their ability this way) have assigned quests merged to map1Q. Those people will play-test these quests (using Map1.Q22 version) and report any serious functionality error they find (and possibly some striking Dialogue errors as well). What would be different from previous round of testing would be that the quests will be assigned to each particular tester directly, not just that everyone will be to free to review any quests he wants (ending with Bal Oyra quests, which work perfectly, being reviewed 4 times by different people and serious errors in Disobedient husband not being spotted by anyone, as I was obviously the only person who has ever play-tested it).
3) The responsible person will attempt to fix reported errors and upload new version for another round of testing.
4) Dialogue review. Now the file will be passed to one reviewer, who will do brief dialogue review (most striking errors should be removed during first round of testing). When he is fed up, he can pass it to somebody else, but there is no need to read through all thousands lines of new dialogue, because...
5) There is no need why this version should be totally bug free, provided the quests work. Lets make it public as we did with Map1 Exteriors and have some Map1 quest dialogue error reporting thread. Everybody can report "Eror" should be "Error".
6) Other quests will be reviewed properly within this map and merged only after being bug free. There should be no problems with dependancies as no objects have been removed from the map1Q version.

Novel approach is required to solve this situation, but once it is settled we can use standard review procedure for rest of map 1 quests as the nonsensical requirement of non-altering the map was lifted.
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