q1-56-Mis

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q1-56-Mis

Post by Why »

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q1-56-Mis (#1216)
Faction: Misc
Parent claim: TR_1-9-Tel (#25)
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 0%)
Location: 1:(5457, 2069):0, 2:(3252, 2217)
Files: TR_q1-56-Mis_Lud_1.esp; TR_q1-56-Mis_Lud_2.esp

---

ON HOLD -- Master Quest for Rathra and corresponding and contrasting Imperial line.
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Post by groza528 »


Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Lud »

So that the duchess uses her own miners to dig down deeper in the mine amd be slaughtered.
The duchess doesn't know about the presence of the daedra, but wants the mine itself. In order to force the Telvanni out of the mine, the duchess uses the Twin Lamps as her tool. Rathra sees through this and gives her the mine, after letting the slaves escape to make the duchess think that she won. (Rathra was originally planning to sacrifice her own mine-workers) She then sells the mine in order to get a butload of cash and to kill some Imperials. (And of course, for the amusement she get from Imperials dying)

Heh, just realised how convoluted this plot-line is.
But then, I waqs trying to show both Telvanni deviousness and untrustworthiness. (Thus all the possible betrayals)
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Post by Starcrunch »

This is a really nice quest line Ludovic. I really like the way the Telvanni strategy plays out. Clever and underhanded...you really feel like they are playing one a whole other level than the imperials.

EDIT: A few questions.

What is the final dispostion of Bal Oyra along the Telvanni line? i.e. is it part of the treaty?

What will prevent the PC from murdering all of FW while transformed? How will normal NPC's react?

How tall do you plan on making the PC during the transformation? Too much size can make for some annoying trouble with maneuvering the PC.

-Starcrunch
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Post by Lud »

Starcrunch wrote:This is a really nice quest line Ludovic. I really like the way the Telvanni strategy plays out. Clever and underhanded...you really feel like they are playing one a whole other level than the imperials.
Thanks. I really wanted to show the Telvanni "being Telvanni"; sacrifcing minions to achieve an objective, betraying each other, using powerful magic and just being devious in general.
EDIT: A few questions.

What is the final dispostion of Bal Oyra along the Telvanni line? i.e. is it part of the treaty?
Rathra doesn't really care all that much about BO. (Pun intended :P )
The treaty is designed to limit Imperial power and how they can interfere in Telvanni goings-on. After the treaty, a new NPC will be enabled in FW and much new local dialogue for Firewatch will appear. The Bal Oyra stuff is simply a useful feint and a way to get rid of a rival.
What will prevent the PC from murdering all of FW while transformed? How will normal NPC's react?
The player won't actually go to Firewatch, they will go to a duplicated copy of the interior of the castle. This will be mostly filled with guards and other fighters, but I'll add some civilians that simply run away when they see the PC. They will be stopped from going into the city proper by virtue of the gates being "barricaded" (Original plan was to huge the city proper, but that had to be cancelled for FPS reasons and Fiewatch being empty becuase everybody is dead reasons.
How tall do you plan on making the PC during the transformation? Too much size can make for some annoying trouble with maneuvering the PC.

-Starcrunch
About .1 or .2 taller than an Altmer and a couple of points wider than an orc. Not a giant but noticeably bigger than they would usually be.
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Post by Lud »

Ok, here's the quest plan for the Imperial side as it now stands. (Can't update the top one which is now out of date)

Imperial Side

1)If the player has a high reputation, or is a high rank in FG/MG/Legion and is not in House Telvanni, then they will be told by various people in Firewatch that the duchess is looking for him/her. (Go to step 3)

2) Asking around in Firewatch will reveal that Listiele Rirne, a breton noble, is a good friend of the duchess and has her ear. Talking to him will activate a quest to find out some useless piece of information about Wayrest from the library. (It's about the War of Betony) On completion of this, you will be sent to the duchess with his blessing.

3) The duchess sees that though you seem to be reasonably loyal to the Empire, and of sound mind and body, etc, you would do well to learn some loyalty and discipline from Senillos Tulnus, the pretentious Knight Brother.(the duchess will cryptically warn you that he is a moron, albeit loyal, and to check your orders with the Legion Captain too) Senillos' first task is to test your strength in unarmed combat with one of the legionaires in the barracks. You can retry this many times, but cannot progress until you succeed. (It won't be hard)

4) Tulnus then sends you to learn some loyalty from the prison warden in the nearby prison, which basically amounts to brutalising prisoners. The prison guard will start telling you how loyalty and fidelity to the Empire is a quality that can only be beaten into some, when one of the prisoners calls out an insult to him. If you refuse to brutalise them, you can still advance by telling the Legion Captain about the order you have been given, Tulnus' disposition will drop when you tell him what she (the legion captain) told you, but he will continue.

5) You must then help to "defend the citizenry of this noble empire" (or some such guff) by protecting a caravan heading to Gah Ouadaruhn. Along the way, you are attacked by bandits (yes, the same bandits that you bribe in the Telvanni side) These bandits have some distinctive gear. If you speak to Mages' Guild people about this, they recognise it as Telvanni stuff.

6) Telling this to the duchess only makes her angrier at the Telvanni. She cuts your training short; you are told to go help out her associates in the Twin Lamps, she doesn't really care about their cause, but they have their uses for her. The first twin lamps mission is just a simple "go free this slave" one, where you have to free slaves from Orelu Plantation, near Tel Ouada.

7) The second Twin Lamps mission is to go to Port Telvannis and spread rumours among the slaves there about slaves who have escaped. Not actually true, but helps keep hope alive among the slaves in Port Telvannis.
8) The third Twin Lamps one is to go free the slaves from the mine over the daedric shrine. You have to dress up in Molecrab armour, and pretend to be relieving the guards. As soon as you free all the slaves, the duchess calls you back and is very happy, the Telvanni will surely sell the mine now that they have no slaves to work there. Sure enough, a courier arrives, selling the mine to the duchess.
9)You are sent to Bal Oyra, where you are told that there is some kind of trouble brewing. Tibera Rone, the head honcho of the local legion, isn't terribly bothered about the rumours of insurgency that are being bandied about. She tells you to go bring her some proof before she'll lift a finger. You ask around the town and eventually you are led to a dunmer (Rathra's assistant), who offers to become a double agent, something that pleases the duchess no end. He tells you where to look to find the rebels. You report back to Tiberia Rone at the keep to enlist the help of some legionaries and eliminate the rebels.

10) The duchess sends you to check on the progress at her new fort and to have a look at Hanitabi mine, as she's worried about more "bandits", etc. The only news from the fort is that some dodgy characters have been seen in the area. Setting out for the mine, you arrive just in time to see the last of the mine workers being massacred. You get to work killing the daedra wandering around, and descend into the daedric shrine under the mine. You find there a huge daedra (I'm thinking Dridrea, just to be different), get to work killing it. When it's health starts getting low, Rathra's contact appears. He casts something at you and you're paralysed (scripted) He then proceeds to soultrap and finish off the daedra. Wondering what this is for, etc. At this point it is suggested that you ask at the Mages Guild about what could be going on. Digging in various books by the mages yields some worrying info on this daedra and what could be done with its soul.

11) The player is sent to check on Balachen Fort once again, this time it emerges that some bandits have been making guerilla-style attacks on the fort and those who are working on it. The player helps to hunt them down, in the process recovering a piece of paper on which a couple of words can be distinguished. "Lambinatha", "book",

12) The player has to go looking for what and where Lambinatha is. The sources of info for the Telvanni side won’t be willing to tell an Imperial player. The player has to collect a few cryptic clues in order to try to piece together the info from various incomplete sources. Gindaman in the Mages’ Guild will help the player here if they get stuck. Eventually the player will be provided with a location for Drenka (but not a name) They retrieve the book from Lambinatha. It is clear at this point that Rathra is planning something devilish, as the book contains pictures of a particularly fiendish daedra being summoned and a man (/mer) actually turning into a daedra. The members of the Mages’ Guild all go very quiet when they see this.
13)The player has to go find Nadril Lerdys, and ancient hermit who is said to know an awful lot about such daedric things, having been thrown out of the Mages' Guild for pursuign dangerous lines of study. As well as being a genius, he's also completely insane. The player has to get some clues from him about what the book means. They bring this info back to the MQ heads to ponder over.
14)Meanwhile, the fort at Balachen is attacked by the Telvanni root stuff that was foreshadowed earlier. The player must rescue the suviving soldiers from the ruined fort.
15)When the player returns, they find out the full extent of what Rathra is planning. However, they also find the mage who worked it out dead and the book gone. A messenger arrives with a note for them along the way. This note is from Rathra, asking to meet the player and promising great rewards. Here, they can choose to betray the duchess and help Rathra. (Switch to the Telvanni attack ending) If they refuse, they have to fight off Rathra's minions.

16)First, the player is asked to help prepare the defenses for the coming assault. They go around giving speeches to the guards and being given choices on where people should be stationed, etc. However, panic ensues when it turns out that the attack is coming from underneath the palace.

17)The player now has to defend Firewatch, which involves a big battle under the city, in the old 2nd era fort. If the player manages to defend Firewatch well, preventing Daedra from getting into the duchess’ chambers, they have “wonâ€Â￾ and she will not give in to their demands. If not, they lose, and the place gets new “woe is usâ€Â￾ dialogue
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Post by Stryker »

Claiming, I guess... I'd like to give this a shot, hopefully get it more in the direction of finished, if not finish it off completely...
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Post by Haplo »

Woot. Granting!
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Post by Stryker »

*Cough* If so... Forgive my inability but every attempt at changing the dependency has ended in various script errors and missing references. Soo, having never done this before... How does one do that, anyways? xD
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

In the long run it would be helpful but probably irrelevant because plugins have their dependency removed before they're merged anyway.

In fact the probable new way of doing things from a while back, which MowSkwoz discovered, is that it might be easier not to make the file dependent at all, but to instead run it off Mainland.esp (without selecting that as Active). Regardless, for old files, probably safer to stick with a standard dependency.

Anyway, to do this, create a blank .esp with a TR_Mainland.esm dependency.

Go into TESAME, and export that TES3 header data block as a .esd file (there's an export button around somewhere)

Then, in TESAME delete the header from your file, and import the .esd header.
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Post by Haplo »

here's how, in order:

load the quest .esp in TESDTK. Add a dependency to the proper file to the quest .esp. then delete the old dependency. save.
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Post by Stryker »

In current state, I can't really effectively work with Lud's file for this. My progress would go faster if I started the entire implementation over again... Sooo... I am doing just that.


(Posting this by order of Thrig.) xD
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Post by Haplo »

Alright. Stryker is going to redo it based on the original design unless someone speaks up.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

If we're gonna redo it, we might want to replan it as well. I believe Ada and Sload have some thoughts. I will try and talk to them about it soon.

If you want to start some work on this anyway, go ahead Skah. But it might be worth waiting a few days?
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

Looking back on the quest line, it feels awfully uber. Even if it will delay this somewhat, I'd like to see if this couldn't be rewritten.
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Post by Haplo »

If anyone has a "plan" for reworking the MQ, it needs to be posted last year.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Ideally yes. But in the scheme of things, the 'House Telvanni' release comes after both quested2 and Map3. So we have plenty of time to go.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

and to be fair, it wasn't long ago that this was indefinitely stalled. I don't think that we have to necessarily rush forward recklessly just because we can move forward at all.
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Post by Haplo »

I'm only speaking to the fact this has been "in the works" for like 5 years now, and posting said plans will help to facilitate work being done on this quest that has been far too long in coming.
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Post by Yeti »

Is all the work on the MQ being scrapped, or just the Telvanni side?
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

All of it. The file has turned out to be completely unworkable.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

For re-planning:

Imperial Side

I see no major issues with any of the quests except 16 and 17, which are too uber and will need to be clarified or reworked.

Telvanni Side

Quest 6 is odd. Why does Rathra care if a few slaves die? It's not really clear why she's getting one over on the Imperials here (at least not to me).

Quest 8: We need to check that the group is still there. Weren't they used in another quest line?

Quest 10: Faruna could be dead / gone from her quest line. Also there are still issues with the stupid plant creatures.

There is no quest 11?

Quest 12 is very vague. More details are needed about Dral's request.

Quest 13 is too uber in my opinion. Player turning into a giant dremora and destroying loads of shit?


I'd love to write a full plan for this, but as always these days, I can't guarantee I'll have the time.. :(
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Post by Sload »

You guys don't get it.

Its my understanding that the opinion of Adanorcil and Bloodthirsty Crustacean is that the current conception of the "Map 1 Main Quest" is fundamentally, conceptually, and structurally flawed. This isn't a matter of changing a few quests: the thing stinks.

Like so many times in the past, the administration is stepping in far later than it should have. This may be a painful experience, but serious changes will be made.
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Post by Why »

Ow, sorry about that, thanks for pointing it out. Yea, it might be the right course of action to rewrite it entirely though I'll be sad to see it binned, I liked the story. Sure we could recycle bits though. Anyway I'll shut up 'till confirmation is given. :)
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Post by Haplo »

Sload wrote:Its my understanding that the opinion of Adanorcil and Bloodthirsty Crustacean is...
You don't have a plan already?
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Post by Sload »

As I told BC, I'm not willing to commit to writing this quest.
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Post by Theo »

As much as I didn´t like the overarching plot, some of the missions were quite original and introduced new game content. Also lots of breath-taking interiors were created solely for the purpose of this questline. It would be great shame just to throw them away. If someone could rewrite this so that the behavior of main characters was less naive and the course of events more logical, while saving the nice tidbits and having in mind using those interiors, this quest could tur out to be sufficiently epic, but believable.
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Post by osiris »

I agree with Theo. Some parts of the questline really need to be redone, but losing what's good would be a shame.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Sload wrote:Its my understanding that the opinion of Adanorcil and Bloodthirsty Crustacean is that the current conception of the "Map 1 Main Quest" is fundamentally, conceptually, and structurally flawed. This isn't a matter of changing a few quests: the thing stinks.
Could someone (Sload/Ada/BC) expand on this? I assume Rathra would still need a quest line. Are we talking about pruning it down in size? Removing the Imperial line? I would be keen to help planning once we have a steer on this.

I wouldn't say the quest lines were fundamentally flawed. There are some good quests there. I have no objection to a restructuring, but just scrapping it all would be a waste of a lot of time and effort.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I basically have the same opinion as you, Skwoz. This is a slightly hypothetical and confusing discussion to be having whilst me and Ada are still 'in discussion' about our thoughts here.

Adanorcil or Sload are really the ones who would have to elaborate on their plans, which I am not fully party to. Last time I spoke with Ada, there were some rather dramatic ideas talked about that I was not particularly keen on. Because I'm not keen, it's probably best if Ada or Sload present the ideas themselves.

But in the bigger picture, I had given my assent to Ada when several months ago he suggested that he wished to consider changing/scrapping elements of the MQ/Telvanni questlines. I have no particular attachment to the 'MQ', and as indicated would be willing to see it go. But personally I have no plans or ideas in mind. I for one would very much appreciate your input on a restructuring of Telvanni, but Sload and Ada's plans would go somewhat beyond that.

For now, this discussion, as I said, is really too hypothetical for me to say much. If anyone wants to continue discussions, PM me or Sload or Ada until this thread can settle down and decide where it actually wants to be heading first.
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Post by Stryker »

*Prods the thread* Any word on this yet? :P It's getting dull without ze claim.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

I'm up for an IRC discussion on this about 22:00 GMT today if anyone else is?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Being at uni means I can't get on IRC, sorry Skwoz. You could perhaps see if Ada is on: he sometimes is.
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Post by Haplo »

I mean come on we have a whole thread for this discussion aside from this one. Let's get something done.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

to be fair, that discussion has stalled
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Post by Haplo »

This needs to be designed so people who design quests, start doing it. I'd send this back to Design but an odd forum error is preventing me from doing so.
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Post by The Greatness »

So what, is this whole thing being scrapped? If so, do we have a good idea of the aims of each party (Telvani and Imperial) in this quest. I can certainly see why you'd want to scrap the current plans but it would be nice to have some idea of what this questline should acheive.

I realise I'm probably not the sort of guy who should be designing stuff like this, but I just can't sit and watch this claim lie abandoned.
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Thrignar Fraxix
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

I don't see why this is unclaimed and not locked as we are still trying to decide what this should be.

It is indeed terrible that this is just sitting here, hopefully the fact that this was posted in will get the internal thread where this is being discussed moving again.
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Post by Haplo »

Well I was trying to put it in "Design" but there is some random-ass error preventing me from doing so. I didn't want to lock it in hopes that Adan would just post his redesigned claim, but he hasn't yet.
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Post by Adanorcil »

I beg your pardon for my continued failure to deliver that redesign. It involves more than just writing up a few quests, which makes this a complicated task.

However, I'm working on it now and I'm hoping to have it all showable in a couple of days. Is this acceptable to you?
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