q1-57-Mis

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theviking
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q1-57-Mis

Post by theviking »

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q1-57-Mis (#1217)
Faction: Misc
Parent claim: TR_1-18-Tel (#36)
Claimed by: MMMowSkwoz
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Location: 1:(4201, 1720):0, 2:(3251, 2110)
Files: TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_1.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_2.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_3.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_4.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_5.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_6.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_MMMowSkwoz_7.esp; TR_q1-57-Mis_groza528_1.rar

---

This is an old plot line that I would like to see implemented. The plan is very detailed, so making it will be no problem. (If nobody wants it, I'll just claim it myself when I'm finished with the MQ)

Quest Title: Mudlap and the Mosslog.

Quest Maker: Silvone Elestahr

Story: Your character encounters a lone npc by the name of Mudlap on the peninsula on the east of Llothanis standing near two mudcrabs. After speaking with him you learn that he had lived in Port Telvannis(spelling) and had aspirations to join House Telvanni. They told him that he did not meet their requirements. In anger he fled the city to find someone who could train him in the arts of magicka. Instead, he encountered the talking Mudcrab (the one you can find in the original game). He does not say specifically that it is that same mudcrab, but hints at it. He then tells you that he made a journey to Ma'iq(spelling?) the Liar to learn about talking mudcrabs. The Liar told him that the mudcrabs hold a grudge against House Telvanni, and with the proper steps, Mudlap might convince the mudcrabs to join his side and overthrow the House.
Mudlap asks you if you would be willing to join him in raising his army. If you refuse to help him, or if you insult him at any time, he will become extremely angry with you and threaten you. You will no longer be able to help him, and he will disappear after you leave the cell. If you choose to say yes, he will ask you to find a legendary log to help you recruit the mudcrabs. This log is known as Mosslog, and can be found across the river from Tel Ouada, near a normal log static. I will need someone to model this for me: just a normal looking mossy log that someone can wield. It should have pretty low stats, but an OK enchantment. The enchantment should be something along the lines of command creature so that your character can make the mudcrabs follow you. After retrieving the log, you return to Mudlap. He then asks you to find four more mudcrabs (bringing the total in the area to six). He tells you to travel north along the coast to a lighthouse. He remembers seeing a few over there. Head north and you should see four mudcrabs right by the lighthouse. Using the Mosslog, you bring the mudcrabs back to Mudlap. He thanks you for your help and then takes the Mosslog from you. He tells you that he will make his attack in three days, and that you may join him if you wish. At this point the quest branches off in several directions, depending on your actions. I will try to make it as orderly as I can.

1.) You travel to any Telvanni town and warn the guards of Mudlap. They send you to Port Telvannis to speak with a Telvanni Wizard (rank) by the name of Verrac Odrethi. He gives you a bit of background information on Mudlap, laughs at his measly attempt at revenge, and tells you that it will be taken care of. He offers you 500 gold as a reward. You will not be able to recover the Mosslog.

2.) You come back in three days to join him on his conquest. But, “inexplicably,â€Â￾ the mudcrabs turn on Mudlap, and he screams out to you for help. You would then have the choice of allowing the mudcrabs to kill him, or helping him kill the mudcrabs. If you kill the mudcrabs, he gives you back the Mosslog. If you let the crabs kill him, you can take the Mosslog off of his dead body.

3.) If you don't return in three days, Mudlap and his mudcrabs will disappear, and if you speak with anyone in the Telvanni House about Latest Rumors, they will mention a madman that tried to conquer House Telvanni with a few mudcrabs, Et cetera. That topic can only be read once, and then it disappears, being recorded in your journal. You will not be able to recover the Mosslog.

NPCs Involved:
Mudlap (Temporary NPC)
Verrac Odrethi (Telvanni Wizard (rank))
Any Telvanni Guard (for Mudlap topic)
Any Telvanni NPC (for Latest Rumors)

Locations Involved:
1. Cell 32,14: Location of Mudlap
2. Port Telvannis, Odrethi Manor: Location of Verrac Odrethi
3. Cell 25,17: Location of Mosslog


Dialogues:
Encounter with Mudlap
I. Greeting: Hello there, @pcrace. Would you be interested in helping out a fellow traveler?

I.A. {No, I don’t have the time.}
I.B. {Sure, why not? What do you need?

I.A.1. You dare refuse the request of a Telvanni wizard! I should have your head! I should summon all of Oblivion to feast off of your ignorant corpse! Leave me, before I do something I will regret!
{Goodbye}

I.B.2. I’ve traveled across every corner of Vvardenfell searching for a specific item. You see, I’ve recently developed an obsession with…mudcrabs. Yes, I know that sounds crazy, coming from a powerful Telvanni wizard like myself, but its true.

I.B.2.a. {What is this item you are searching for?}
I.B.2.b {You don’t look very powerful…}

I.B.2.d. How dare you insult a Telvanni wizard! I should have your head! I should summon all of Oblivion to feast off of your ignorant corpse! Leave me, or I just might do so!
{Goodbye}

I.B.2.c. I am searching for the legendary Mosslog. It is a sturdy piece of wood that appeals to the tastes of any mudcrab in Morrowind. How they would love to lay their belly on a damp, mossy log like that. All one would need to do is wave it in front of a mudcrab, and it would follow them anywhere.

I.B.3.a. {Where could I find this Mosslog?}
I.B.3.b. {I think you’re crazy!}

I.B.3.bb. How dare you insult a Telvanni wizard! I should have your head! I should summon all of Oblivion to feast off of your ignorant corpse! Leave me, or I just might do so!
{Goodbye}

I.B.3.aa. So you have agreed to help? Great! I’ve heard that it can be found right across the river from Tel Ouada. The problem is I’ve run into…trouble there. So I can’t get it myself. It shouldn’t be that hard to find. The fools don’t even know what is sitting right under their noses! And it will be there downfall!
{continue}
Look for a pile of logs near Tel Ouada, probably to the west of it. The Mosslog is unmistakable, trust me. Once you have the Mosslog, bring it back to me. I will have more orders…err…requests for you. Hah.
{Goodbye}

Return of the Mosslog
II. Have you found the Mosslog yet?

II.A. {No, I am still searching}
II.B. {Yes, here it is}

II.A.1. Well then get back out there and start searching!
{Goodbye}

II.B.2. At last! The key to my success, and to the downfall of my enemies, is in my hands. What I can do with this! I give you my thanks, &pcname. Were it not for you, I would have remained a lonely wanderer, bereft of station and power for eternity. Now I must give you back the Mosslog, and ask you to bring me four more Mudcrabs using it. Just walk up to them and show them the artifact. They will surely follow.

Question: How will he know when you have brought four mudcrabs? Can it be scripted? If so, this is how it will continue.

To war…

III. You have found four of them for me? Great! Now I must ask you for one more favor, &pcname. Join me. I plan to make war upon the Telvanni for their stupidity. They rejected me! They told me that I was not strong enough to represent their House! But I will show them. Now that I know Ma’iq(spelling?) was not lying…completely, I can recruit an army of unstoppable mudcrabs.
{continue}
Do you know how long the mudcrabs have wished to retake their land from the Telvanni, &pcname? This is their chance, and mine! Join me, and I will reward you well.

III.A. {Where did you learn all of this?}

III.A.1. Haven’t you ever encountered a talking mudcrab? I have, though I cannot reveal his location. It was a personal request of his. But he has a wealth of knowledge, as well as Ma’iq the Liar. So, what do you say?

III.A.1.a. {I am sorry, but I must decline. I…uh…must speak with…someone.}
III.A.1.b. {Add me to your ranks, Wizard.}

III.A.1.c. I understand. War is a gruesome thing. And mudcrabs have no thought for the weak of heart. I thank you for your services, &pcname. Take this gold as compensation for your valiant efforts.
{player receives 500 gold}

III.A.1.d. Wonderful. Come back in three days. By that time I should have my army ready. Thanks again, &pcname.
{Goodbye}

Three decisions
(Only if you agreed to fight)
1. You have the choice to report Mudlap to the guards. In any Telvanni town, walk up to a guard and select the topic Mudlap.

IV. Greeting (Guard): Mudlap, you say? I’ve never heard of him, personally. You should take this to Verrac Odrethi in Port Telvannis. He usually deals with these sorts of things. Look for him in the Odrethi Manor.
{Goodbye}

IV. Greeting (Verrac Odrethi): Mudlap! Ha! That sniveling worm thinks he can oust the Telvanni? Do you know why he was rejected? Because he is weak. He couldn’t cast a single spell that he had been practicing for nearly a year. So he told you he was a wizard, eh? I will show him personally what a real wizard is. Thank you, &pcname, for this information. I would reward you more, had this been more serious.
{player receives 500 gold}

That is the end of the quest from that branch. The player loses the Mosslog, but gets 500 gold. Mudlap is no longer an NPC.

2. You have the choice not to return in the three days. In this case, Mudlap will have disappeared. Return to a Telvanni city and select the topic Latest Rumors. If you are in Port Telvannis, the NPC will respond:

IV. Latest Rumors: Did you hear of that crazy Dunmer who tried to attack our city with an army of Mudcrabs? The fool! I’ve seen some crazy Dunmer in my life, but that one tops it. I hear an Imperial sailor accompanied him, and House Telvanni is out looking for his ship. He will pay dearly.

If you are in any other Telvanni city, the NPC will respond:

IV. Latest Rumors: Did you hear of that crazy Dunmer who tried to attack Port Telvannis with an army of Mudcrabs? The fool! I’ve seen some crazy Dunmer in my life, but that one tops it. I hear an Imperial sailor accompanied him, and House Telvanni is out looking for his ship. Last I heard he was heading south toward Necrom. Rumor has it he is affiliated with the Thieves Guild. If he is caught, he will pay dearly.

Following this branch will leave you without 500 gold as well as without the Mosslog. The Latest Rumors topic can only be read once, and will then be recorded in the players journal.

3. You have the choice to come back in three days to join Mudlap in his conquest of Telvanni territory. As you arrive, Mudlap is being attacked by his Mudcrabs. You have two choices: to save him, or to let the mudcrabs kill him.

IV. Greeting (Mudlap): &pcname, help me! They are attacking me. Please, do something!
{Goodbye}

If you let him die, you can loot his body for the Mosslog. You will also receive a not that reads as follows:

Mudlap,
Everything is ready and I wait for your word to cast off. Should anything go wrong, I will return to the south. I am sure the Thieves Guild will help me. If you happen to make the trip on your own, remember to stay out of sight of Necrom. They are not too happy with our little group right now.
Good luck,
C.T.

If you save him, the following dialogue ensues:

IV. Thank you, &pcname. I don’t know what went wrong. Bah! I admit it! I’ve been lying to you all along. I am no wizard…I can’t even cast a simple spell. House Telvanni rejected me because I am incompetent when it comes to casting spells. I wanted to show them I could be stronger than any of them, and I wouldn’t need spells. But I couldn’t even control a mudcrab!
{Continue}
I apologize, &pcname. Take the Mosslog. May it come to more use for you than it did for me.
{Player receives Mosslog}

This is the end of this branch. The player receives the Mosslog, and Mudlap disappears after you leave the cell.

Additional Information: If you continue to speak with Mudlap after receiving the Mosslog, the topic Mudlap will be available. Selecting this topic will produce the following dialogue:

Mudlap: Yes, I am Mudlap, a crazy old Dunmer with no magical sense whatsoever! I guess I am done here, but I have one more offer for you, in thanks for your help and your friendship. I am returning to my friend’s ship, so that we may return to our group in the south. You may follow, if you wish to join us. Head south, along the eastern coast, until you reach the grand city of the Tribunal. Contact the Thieves Guild, and ask for me by name.
{Goodbye}
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groza528
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Post by groza528 »

I'll take a crack at this, but I'll probably change the name to "Mudlap and the Mosslog."
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by groza528 »

I may change the PT noble since I believe the Odrethi's figure into one of Starcrunch's PT quests.
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Morden
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Post by Morden »

Are we allowed to edit the NPC dialogue to make it flow better?
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Post by groza528 »

As far as I know, yes. I might also add something to make it clear that only those particular mudcrabs will work, unless some scripting master knows how to handle random mudcrabs without adding a script to them.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Starcrunch »

Yes it's probably best to avoid Verrac, it's possible to end up offing him in murder and intrigue (though it's more likely the PC will just piss him off and he won't talk to the PC).

No way to target the script at generic mudcrabs without using something that extends the scripting functions (which is contrary to TR policy about using third party software). There is an alternative however:

1.) Create a new mudcrab and attach the script to it (otherwise it is identical to the old mudcrab).
2.) Create a new set of leveled lists identical to the old ones that contained mudcrabs, only they use the new mudcrab creature.
3.) Use those new leveled list to place leveled creatures on the mainland within say 5 cells of the mudcrab quest.
4.) Use the old lists everywhere else.

Now if the player goes too far afield it won't work, but it will at least function on ALL mudcrabs within a certain radius of the quest (make the radius such that the player wouldn't reasonably leave it).

-Starcrunch
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Post by groza528 »

I would also like to change the location of Mudlap, for a few reasons:
a. The cell designated is part of a small peninsula, and if you travel north along the coast you will reach the northern end of the peninsula, rather than the Boethian lighthouse. When I tried in-game I was unable to find the lighthouse, and without a world map it is difficult to know that the two landmasses are connected.
b. Mudcrabs are very slow. It would be *painful* for the PC to have them follow him as far as outlined. Also, there's a good chance the Mosslog effect would wear off by then.
c. As hinted at by a., the terrain is a bit odd. In order to get from Mudlap to the lighthouse you must either corss a small inlet in the Sea of Ghosts or go south and around and over mountains. It can be hard for the player to traverse mountains; try getting a mudcrab to do it. Four times. Note: despite the fact that they are crabs, I could not get the mudcrabs to follow me very far in the water.
d. The current location is wilderness. It's wilderness behind mountains, and it's near two pairs of outlaws. As such, the player may not go anywhere near Mudlap, and if they did, could very well attack him on sight.

For the above reasons, I would propose moving Mudlap to the sandy beach area just off the road at (30, 15). This is the cell directly south of the lighthouse. It's much closer, easier to traverse, and visible to players traveling on the road.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by groza528 »

Plot's the same, but I have changed the dialogue tree rather significantly. Mostly I made it up as I went along, as I didn't have internet access when I was working on this mod.
Also, as mentioned above, put Mudlap in a different cell. Because of the afore-mentioned slowness of the mudcrabs, I think that it would suffice to put the new levc within two cells in any direction, and have identified all such in the readme.

Edit: attachment deleted because it has been updated
The slot that was originally filled by Varrac Odrethi is now filled by Weikal Urenim, who just received a TR_Telvanni promotion (one rank) courtesy of yours truly.
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by groza528 »

This is safe to return to the reviewing forum. Thanks!
Imagine my insult to find that "Raw Glass has no effect on you." I became very huffy at the implication that my intelligence could not be lowered further. Then again, I did just eat a piece of glass.
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Post by Lud »

Merged
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
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theviking
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Post by theviking »

These are the error reports for this quest:

Mudlap and Mosslog

First, the nitpicks: Refers to Alendu Plantation as "Arendu" Plantation.
More 'double spacing'.
Mudlap doesn't fully explain why M'Aiq's story "piqued his interest" (i.e to build an army to defeat his rivals in House Telvanni. Very nitpicky, but this dialogue just didn't sound right to me)
No in-quest greeting
Now, the actual problems: First, it is very easy to accidentally kill the four mudcrabs that he wants. You are given no warning he wants them, and they are aggressive. Perhaps only enable them once you've shown him the Mosslog?

Secondly, the Mosslog isn't good enough for the job, I found. I often needed to use it more than the charge would allow in order to calm the crab down, so I'd either make the crabs passive, or add a "Calm Creature" effect to the log. Also, for the love of all that's holy please put a Fortify Speed effect on it!
Also, I found that the crab who I delivered to Mudlap first just started to follow me again when I delivered the others, causing buggy dialogue from Mudlap. Perhaps change his conditions for telling you you've got all the crabs so that it's based on a variable set when all crabs are nearby, not just following him?
EDIT: By forcing the crabs AI to follow Mudlap, it would appear that the script or whatever is broken anyway, as I still get no response. I'm looking into it now.
EDIT: I have looked at the scripts, and all appears to be in order. I shall have another go in-game.
EDIT: The problem is definitely the variable not being set, which is odd. (When I type "show TR_Crabsgathered, it's always 2) Sometimes, upon loading, the crabs follow me again, so perhaps they are resetting because of a load?
Other bugs discovered: crabs don't dissapear when Mudlap leaves once you've got all the crabs.
Sometimes Mudlap doesn't show up outside the council hall.
Also, there is a spawn point near Mudlap that spawns mudcrabs, and the player might not know they can't bring him just any mudcrabs.
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Post by groza528 »

Revoking from myself so I can focus on Stirk MQ

These are the error reports for this quest:

Mudlap and Mosslog

- Refers to Alendu Plantation as "Arendu" Plantation.
- More 'double spacing'.
- Mudlap doesn't fully explain why M'Aiq's story "piqued his interest" (i.e to build an army to defeat his rivals in House Telvanni. This dialogue just didn't sound right to me)
- No in-quest greeting
- It is very easy to accidentally kill the four mudcrabs that he wants. You are given no warning he wants them, and they are aggressive. Perhaps only enable them once you've shown him the Mosslog? (Note from questmaker: I believe these crabs respawn)
- The Mosslog isn't good enough for the job, I found. I often needed to use it more than the charge would allow in order to calm the crab down, so I'd either make the crabs passive, or add a "Calm Creature" effect to the log. Also, for the love of all that's holy please put a Fortify Speed effect on it!
- I found that the crab who I delivered to Mudlap first just started to follow me again when I delivered the others, causing buggy dialogue from Mudlap. Perhaps change his conditions for telling you you've got all the crabs so that it's based on a variable set when all crabs are nearby, not just following him?
EDIT: By forcing the crabs AI to follow Mudlap, it would appear that the script or whatever is broken anyway, as I still get no response. I'm looking into it now.
EDIT: I have looked at the scripts, and all appears to be in order. I shall have another go in-game.
EDIT: The problem is definitely the variable not being set, which is odd. (When I type "show TR_Crabsgathered, it's always 2) Sometimes, upon loading, the crabs follow me again, so perhaps they are resetting because of a load?
- Crabs don't dissapear when Mudlap leaves once you've got all the crabs.
- Sometimes Mudlap doesn't show up outside the council hall.
- There is a spawn point near Mudlap that spawns mudcrabs, and the player might not know they can't bring him just any mudcrabs. (Note: All of the close mudcrab spawnpoints should be tameable mudcrab spawnpoints. If any are not, they should be changed.)
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Post by theviking »

sent to NA. Not necessary and can't be made in any other map.
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Post by theviking »

Since there are no claims in unclaimed, I want to see this implemented again. The file made by groza had some errors (see above) but you can use it as a base or start over again.
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Post by Faalen »

groza528 wrote:Weikal Urenim
A request for whomever happens to claim this:

Please remove Weikal Urenim from the questline; he plays an integral role in q1-77 and I'd rather not have him modified in a way that might conflict with his responsibilities therein. Thanks.
Q1-77-Tel current progress:
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=266462#266462]Journals 100% done.[/url]
Practical implementation is now underway.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

< I am foolish and didn't realise that pressing 'claim' also produces a post... >
Last edited by MMMowSkwoz on Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Claiming. I'll have a look at Groza's file and get back to you with any questions.

Since both Weikal Urenim and Verrac Odrethi are otherwise occupied, who can I use for the Telvanni Wizard? Do you want me to create a new one?

Edit: Apologies if I'm being really stupid here, but where is the TR_Map1.esm file for download?
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Post by Faalen »

Unless there's been a change in policy that no one's informed me about, just use the public Map 1 file (You did play the mod before joining, yes? If not, there are links on the "Downloads" page). However, do not use the public TR_Data. Use the latest file under the Objects of Tamriel link. You need both the archive and the esm. The new Data throws up some errors with the public Map 1, but none of them are fatal (or even actually errors, for that matter) so you'll be able to use it anyway. There isn't a more recent esm for Map 1 than the public file AFAIK.
Q1-77-Tel current progress:
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=266462#266462]Journals 100% done.[/url]
Practical implementation is now underway.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

This is very odd:
If I load up groza's file straight off, I get loads of 'could not find cell' errors and CS crashes, but if I load up Map1 and then load Groza's file, there's no problem at all. Is this a known problem at all?

Anyway, I've done a quest outline and written everything barring scripts up in notepad, and I have questions:

- What race is Mudlap? The description has him as Dunmer, but Groza has him as a Wood Elf. Does it matter?

- Is the final hint:
Yes, I am Mudlap, a crazy old Dunmer with no magical sense whatsoever! I guess I am done here, but I have one more offer for you, in thanks for your help and your friendship. I am returning to my friend’s ship, so that we may return to our group in the south. You may follow, if you wish to join us. Head south, along the eastern coast, until you reach the grand city of the Tribunal. Contact the Thieves Guild, and ask for me by name.
supposed to be some sort of easter egg? Only the wording is quite odd and you need to do something a bit obscure to get it. I suppose I'm really asking if there's a 'sequel' to this quest that I would need to note in the journal. Groza hasn't mentioned it in his journal entries - is it something I need to know about?

- Can someone confirm these are the correct naming conventions? I'm fairly sure they're right, but I don't want to mess it up and have to change everything later.
objects: TR_m1_q57_[object name]
scripts: TR_m1_q57_[script name]
journals: TR_m1_wil_[quest name]
(journal doesn't need to include q57?)

- The mesh for the Mosslog looks rather thin to be a log. Do you still want me to refer to it as a log, or I could refer to it as 'a branch of the famous mosslog tree' or somesuch.

Sorry if I'm asking a lot, but I'm not really sure how much freedom I have to change things from the original plan without getting permission. I've made a few minor changes to the dialogue already. Is that sort of thing ok?

Thanks.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Changes are totally fine. The reason this quest didn't make it in to the final release is because there was a lot of hassle with scripts, and a tad substandard dialogue. So feel free to do anything you want, as long as it makes sense and stays roughly to the original idea.

'Kay:

1 - Map 1 loading is a known issue - the CS only likes to load four .esms automatically. If you load more, you need to manually select the last .esm.

2 - Mudlap is a Wood Elf

3 - 'Final hint' should probably be scrapped. It sounds a bit unusual. :P

4 - Naming conventions - that, yep, but please could you put an extra underscore between the 'q' and the number. (so, q_57) That's how I want it to be from now on.

5 - Call the Mosslog whatever you want. Just don't be silly, don't change the mesh, and don't change the name. :)



Hope that all helps, and you have as much freedom as you're comfortable with, certainly on misc. quests anyway. :)
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ok, thanks for that BC. I'm actually a decent way into this now. Everything is drafted out and all the scripts written. I just need to put it all into CS and test / correct errors. Is there a reason this is still pending? Anything I need to do?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Wait for Viking to show up. That, or PM an admin to get it moved to your name. :)
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

I was holding off until someone questy said it could be granted.

granting now.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ace.

Am I ok to use the following npcs?

- Melisan Endureth in the Council House Entrance as the person you report Mudlap to.

- Llathros Edri, the pawnbroker in Port Telvannis

I've added a tiny section to the middle of the quest:

Mudlap wants only the biggest and fastest mudcrabs for his army so you must first obtain an item called the Feather Spear which can be used to guide you to the most powerful mucrabs in the area. He has heard that Llathros Edri in Port Telvannis has obtained this Feather Spear and asks you to get it for him. When you talk to Llathros Edri, he's very happy to be rid of it and only asks for 3 gold. The item is actually a quill pen with a sort of simple compass script which guides you to the right mudcrabs (thus giving a good reason why the player can't just bring any old mudcrabs to Mudlap with the Mosslog).

It only adds a few lines of dialog to Llathros, no scripts or anything, and it doesn't look like he's currently involved in any quests.

Melisan also doesn't appear to be used for anything, but I thought I'd check with you cats first. If necessary, I can easily make a new NPC to replace Melisan, but I need the other one to be a merchant, thus Llathros.

Thanks.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

For the Council Hall guy, use Vero Renim. As long as his dialogue is very dry and sarcastic (just check what he's got already, and copy that style), he's the ideal candidate (being the 'admin bloke' in Port Telvannis).

Hope that's not too much trouble.


If you can get the 'crab radar' up and running, that sounds just great, and like some impressive scripting as well. :)
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Thanks for the speedy reply. Ok, Vero Renim it is. And Llathros Edri is ok?

I've written the script for the compass already, but I'll have to wait until I can test it in game to see whether it's actually practical.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

More questions, sorry:

- What's the purpose of the 'control' variable attached to all the npcs?

- Am I supposed to place the npcs and items in the game? Only Lud's post [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18016]here[/url] suggests not, but otherwise how can anyone playtest it?
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Llathros is fine. Any NPC is fine, unless they are killed/otherwise voided by another quest. Or are used so many times that it becomes illogical overkill (see: in old questlines, the ridiculous overuse of Green-Eyes the Firewatch apothecary. Counter-example: Vero Renim, frequently makes appearances, but all are logical, and all maintain the same dialogue style for him, so he becomes a fun recurring character).

Purpose of control variable is because, due to the fact that TR needed to attach a script to every single NPC it created, to give them the TR_Map variable, some cunning soul thought we might as well take advantage of this to make a universally availiable short variable on all NPCs, that would allow all kinds of dialogue funkiness. It is used a lot in some quests that require funky dialogue, not at all in others. (Can't think of any Map 1 examples right now, but in my Map 2 claim, I use it a lot to make fun 'sequential' dialogue, e.g. your greetings with the governor, the mind of the Mad Lord, or mini 'semi-quests' (tell Mirabelle the password, she barters with you)) As of Map 2, all NPCs will have both a 'control' and a 'Qcontrol' variable, the latter reserved exclusively for questers, while the former can be used by any dialogue writer.

The only rule (and reason for the introduction of a second variable) is that you have to check an NPC you're looking to 'control' to see whether they already have their 'control' used in other dialogue/quests, to ensure that no horrible bugs ensue. Best way to check is to do a text search for "control to", and check out manually any results that look like they could belong to the character in question. Most people don't have their control used, but the potential for greatness is there and readily availiable, so please do use it!



As of the latter days of questing before Map 1's release, that rule has been rescinded. Previously, there were all kinds of complex procedures (aided because no one ever tested quests :P - except for the questers themselves) about what went on, but now - you place everything you want, just must make sure your mod is clean!
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Okeycokey.

Hm, I've already written Mudlap's script with a dialogue variable. If I'm feeling keen I might go back through everything and switch it to 'control', but I'll probably just leave it as it is. Good to know for the future use though.

Thanks for all the speedy replies :)
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Heh. It's nice working with a fellow Brit again. Things are so much more efficient. ;)
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Post by Faalen »

I resent your implication, sir. I can be just as efficient as you; I just don't care to be. :-P

(Plus I spend more time in classrooms now than I did in high school, not to mention the homework load.)
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Post by theviking »

Its good to see you guys working together so well. I think this claim is in the right hands; with complex scripting and all. I really like the feather spear solution, it also adds an easter egg. (Think about the fork of horripilation)
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Right, after various frustrating problems, its now in a state where it can be played all the way through. WIP uploaded. I still need to do more thorough testing though, and I have a list of little things I might add in. I have a busy week next week, but I might be able to get it completely finished and ready for playtesting next weekend.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

General protocol is (or was) that you have as long as you want to work on the file (within reason), and do a first couple of rounds playtesting yourself (because you know the quest better than any tester).

Then, when you're all ready, you say it's finished, and it gets merged with Map 1, and eventually we get round to playtesting it. :P

These days, official playtesting is a bit more efficient, but that's the general scheme of things.


Thanks for keeping us updated.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ok, can I just confirm something? I want to use Vero Renim's control variable to fiddle with some dialog from him so I need to make sure it's not used in any other script. Is there any way it could be changed unless it appeared in:

- his script
- a dialog result box
- any other script as "TR_m1_Vero_Renim.control"

I'm fairly sure those are the only ways of changing a variable in a local script, but I want to be 100% sure because screwing up another quest just for an extra line of dialog would not be cool.
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Post by Gez »

If there's other ways than those, the people who know these other ways have never shared their arcane scripting knowledge with the rest of the world.

(Well, there's the console. And using the dot-indirection in other NPC's dialogue's result scripts.)
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Ace, I'll go ahead and control him up then. Thanks.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

Hey ho disco cats,

Pretty much all done now. The quest is complete and plays all the way through with no bugs that I can find. New version uploaded and bumped up to 90% complete. I still have a few things I'm considering implementing though, so I'd like some input.

The crab collecting is done as follows:

*A special 'supercrab' is enabled when you start the search
*This crab has a script on it which gives you directions towards it (north, north-east, etc) as long as you are holding the Feather Spear (crab compass)
*When supercrab gets within a certain distance of Mudlap, he is replaced by a special passive crab and supercrab teleports to a different place (chosen randomly from 5 'spawn points')
*If supercrab dies for any reason, he spawns to a random point and is replaced with a dead crab
*Once he has been brought and replaced three times, supercrab gets deleted and the journal updates


1) Now, this can mean that the player gets directed to the same location multiple times, which obviously isn't desirable in terms of believability (although unless the player kills supercrab, the chance of this happening is only 1/5). Ways around this are:

- More spawn points, reducing the chance of repetition. The downside of this is that I'm fairly limited it places the crabs can be, so the new spawn points would be very near the old.

- A 'no repeats' clause in the script preventing supercrab spawning at a point the player has already been to. The disadvantage of this is that if the player kills supercrab a few times, the number of possible spawn points goes down and there always need to be at least two possibilities to prevent supercrab spawning within sight of the player.

Doing both of these is also an option, but I'm aware that this script is pretty complex already and don't want to add obscene amounts of complexity for relatively little gain. Anyway, what would people prefer?


2) I'm worried someone might get confused and still bring a normal mudcrab to Mudlap. I'd like to have a script so that if the player did that they receive a message (such as Mudlap telling them their mudcrab was too puny). Unfortunately, I can't think of any way of making this work - if anyone has any ideas, let me know.



On an unrelated issue, I'm getting a crash when resting in Map1 areas. It doesn't always happen, but seems to be much more likely if the rest period is only 1 hour. Has anyone else experienced this? I don't think it's anything added by my plugin because I tried again with just Map1 and TR_Data and still got it.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Surely it would be easier just to place manually five supercrabs, and have the crab compass direct you to them in a certain order. If the player happens to get them out of order, Mudlap will accept it as he normally would, and the compass will just skip directions for that crab.

The whole replacing business just sounds destined for bugs. :)

Re: the resting crash, I think Hemitheon encountered this and fixed (?) it in his thread about that Map 1 int he was revisiting.

EDIT: No he didn't. Hmmm... If anyone else knows where this came up, I'd be much obliged if you could point Meeshka there.


EDIT2: I've just tried to replicate this with the most recent Map 1 file, and don't think I could (I did get a freeze after having repeatedly pressed rest for one hour multiple times consecutively without much pause). It would be useful if someone who has experienced this (that could be you, MowSkwoz) would download the most recent Map 1 file from me in the Definitive Map 2 Checklist thread, and see if the error is there as well. If it's there, then we need to worry. If not, we're probably okay.
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Post by MMMowSkwoz »

With the replacing, I wanted to make it a little less predictable. If the player reloads/repeats the quest, the crabs won't be in the same place as before. Having five supercrabs has disadvantages too:
- more crabs means more scripts running
- the compass scripts on each crab would have to be started/stopped at different times and since the supercrab is no longer unique, that means having some sort of global factor keeping track of it (or making 5 unique crabs, which obviously isn't desirable)
- if the player kills 3 of the supercrabs, there would need to be some form of respawn anyway or the player wouldn't be able to complete the quest

Overall, I thought the supercrab solution was fairly neat and efficient. But I'm probably just being defensive because it took me ages to think of it.. :?


The crash I mentioned is a freeze - everything just locks up and I have to close via task manager. I'll check it with your Map1 file later today.
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