[WIP/Proposal] Map 2 Data Update

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

If this is okay with everyone, I think it would be useful if I create a 'Map 2' .esp that can be merged into Data, with all the stuff people need (mainly for NPC placing).

This includes:

Wilderness Levelled Lists
Roamers (They were introduced in Map 1, so it'd be weird if they just disappeared)
Scripts for NPCs (e.g. TR_m2_NPC, TR_m2_NoLoreNPC etc.)
The meshes for Darconis.

This, along with any other stuff anyone cares to put forwards can then be merged into TR_Data, and all NPC-makers can download the updated version and be able to use all the aforementioned stuff.

Just getting this stuff in now should lower the amount of times people need to re-download Data.

Is this a good idea?

[aro101]

I guess everything that is a step forward and can speed up the work is a good idea

[theviking]

I think it's a very good idea. When I claim detailling claim 5 or 8 in the future, it is really handy that these things are already done. By the way, can I remind the NPCérs through this way to inlude some pieces of my map to traders in your claims?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Cool. I'll get started then (I've got a bit of time to spare whilst Scumbago makes any tweaks to Ranyon-ruhn's MQ).

As it stands, the regions I'll be making levelled lists for in Map 2 are:

Inner Sea [Already done for Map 1, so I won't really do this. Just noting that I know it exists]
Boethian Mountains [""]
Sea of Ghosts [""]
Helnim Fields
Boethian Lake
Mephalian Mountains
Sacred Lands

Any suggestions for what should be in those regions?

My Plans:

Helnim Fields:
On Land:
Low-Chance: Moth (lv.1), Alit (lv.3), Muskfly (lv.3)
Medium-Chance: Beetles (lv.6)
High-Chance: Guar (lv.1), Nix-Hound (lv.2)
Coast:
Equal-Chance: A crab (lv.1), Ornada (lv.1)
Critter Caves:
Low-Chance: Parastylus (lv.7)
Medium-Chance: Rat (lv.1), Beetle (lv.6)
High-Chance: Nix-Hound (lv.2)
Water:
Low-Chance: Tully (lv.2)
Medium-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)
Grotto:
Low-Chance: Dreugh (lv.5)
Medium-Chance: Barfish (lv.1), Tully (lv.2)
High-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)


Boethian Lakes:
On Land:
Low-Chance: Cliffracer (lv.4), Kagouti (lv.4), Muskfly (lv.3), Beetles (lv.6)
Medium-Chance: Alit (lv.3)
High-Chance: Kwama Forager/Scrib (lv.1)
Coast:
Equal-Chance: A crab (lv.1), Ornada (lv.1), Netch (lv.4)
Critter Caves:
Low-Chance: Ornada (lv.1), Beetle (lv.6), Parastylus (lv.7)
High-Chance: Crab (lv.1)
Water:
Low-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
Grotto:
Low-Chance: Dreugh (lv.5)
Medium-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)


Mephalian Mountains:
On Land:
Low-Chance: Cliffracer (lv.4), Kagouti (lv.4), Muskfly (lv.3), Beetles (lv.6)
Medium-Chance: Kwama F/S (lv.1), Alit (lv.3), Guar (lv.3), Rat (lv.1)
High-Chance: Nix-hound (lv.2)
Coast:
Equal-Chance: A crab (lv.1), Ornada (lv.1), Netch (lv.4)
Critter Caves:
Low-Chance: Parastylus (lv.7)
Medium-Chance: Rat (lv.1), Beetle (lv.6)
High-Chance: Nix-Hound (lv.2)
Water:
Low-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
Grotto:
Low-Chance: Dreugh (lv.5)
Medium-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)

Sacred Lands:
On Land:
Low-Chance: Moth (lv.1), Alit (lv.3), Skeleton (lv.3)
Medium-Chance: Beetles (lv.6)
High-Chance: Guar (lv.1), Nix-Hound (lv.2)
Coast:
Equal-Chance: A crab (lv.1), Ornada (lv.1)
Critter Caves:
Low-Chance: Skeleton (lv.3)
Medium-Chance: Rat (lv.1), Beetle (lv.6)
High-Chance: Nix-Hound (lv.2)
Water:
Low-Chance: Slaughterfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)
Grotto:
Low-Chance: Dreugh (lv.5), Slaughterfish (lv.1)
High-Chance: Barfish (lv.1)

In Sacred Lands and Helnim Fields areas, NPC-ers should handplace the odd silt-strider and plain-strider.

[Andres Indoril]

I can has more stuff to merge soon?
Wheeeee!




*Andres waits for Bloodthirsty Crustacean's little fun esp and Nalin's stuff now

[Haplo]

It also needs to include all the custom items on Map 2 that are not in TR_Data. Meaning anything starting with TR_m2 or so.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

What are those? Can I have a list/location, so they can all get in this .esp?

And remember, this is a Data update. If you're talking about items that are unique to only a few areas in Map 2, then they can just be in the Map2.esm. It's stuff that all folks (NPCers etc) need access to, like levelled lists, that needs to go in here.

I don't really know what you're talking about. Are there any examples you can think of?

[Haplo]

The latest Map 2 download should have all of them; but to be sure to see them all I would download all the latest detailing claims/NPC claims and load them all together. But that's a good idea. I didn't think about the m2 and m3 and m* references being unique to the maps... doh Haplo X-P

[Theo]

This is definitely a good idea. If you are going to include Roamers please use the version from the version with merged quests I have tuned their stats and AI so that they are not nuisance for low-level PCs.
Also if you wish you could add few more magic oriented and high leveled versions - I am sure you will enjoy creating these universal baddies as I did.
I already placed many Roamer encampents into claim 2-19, which is being detailed by Swiftoak and he told me of his plans to populate these during his NPC detailing.
Those encampents are positioned in remote mountains and not easily reached so more high level bandits could come handy for this purpose.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Cool. Contrary to what was written previously, I will not use levelled lists for Roamers. I don't want identical dudes running around because they've been spawned together. I give a bit of choice as to level and looks for individual Roamers, though.

What should I do re: 'will they, won't they' attack scripts though? Should we scrap that, or is it gonna be kept?

Also, I have finished up my ideas for levelled lists for the various regions (see second post). Any comments/suggestions? Or are they fine?

[blackbird]

Aren't you going to include some deadra in Map 2 exteriors or will you use the other deadra lists?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm not really sure on the use of Daedra in random wilderness. My conscience keeps telling me not to, but they are there in some other lists. Which ones do you think could do with a bit of Daedra?

On the subject of NPC scripts, I'm going to add a second 'control' cariable to each script ('controlQ') that can be used exclusively for quests, so that dialogue writers can have fun with control, without worrying about nullifying it for quest writers. Quest writers can also use both, provided that the first hasn't been used in misc. dialogue for the NPC in question.

I just think that control variable is such a damn good idea, and so useful, that we should get as much out of it as we can.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Right, well I have now got all the stuff mentioned at the top done. I have also included the Darconis wall, now with the name "TR_ex_Imp_WallCr45_01B" under Statics. Merger, please delete "TR_ex_Imp_WalCr45_01B" from the TR_Data.

Also, please note that the mesh is "TR_ex_Imp_Wall_Cr_01B.nif", and is found under sub-folders "TR/x".

That file, and the currently complete .esp are attached.

If any changes need to be made (Daedra in levelled lists etc.), or anything should be added, it'd be nice if people could speak up sooner rather than later, so that Andres can do his thang.

Oh yeah, and this'll need a slight .bsa update for the wall, too, Andres. I assume you've been doing .bsa updates with all your past updates anyway, though.

EDIT: Old file removed.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Well, if noone has any further suggestions, I would like this to be merged soonish, 'cos I'm probably going to finish the RR MQ and be wanting to work on another NPC claim soon.

Also, Andres, when you merge, could you check the icons for the various 'fancy beverages/wines' of TR? In-game they show up as a smily face, wheras in the CS they show up properly. That needs sorting.

[Nomadic1]

Is it a good idea to add plain striders and silt striders to the levelled lists? IIRC there were definately problems with the Silt Striders in them (they have to be placed by hand).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Oh. They were in the Molagreahd lists, though, and I'd never encountered any problems there. EDIT: Actually they weren't.

I will remove them from the lists, then.

EDIT 2: New file attached.

[Andres Indoril]

Umm, does the new one just exclude the plain and silt striders from the leveled lists?
If it does, then I am just going to edit the TR_Data.esm a bit as I already merged the previous esp

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yah, that's all. Damn, you're fast Andres.

Tell me when the latest Data's up will you? (Unless someone else has objections/ideas)

Oh, and do that thing re: the wines, if you can see what the issue is.

[Nomadic1]

That reminds me. Something has to give on those TR wines. Now we have Oblivion, we can see how far off we were when those got added. They should still be expensive, import duties and all that, but as they are now is completely ridiculous.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Any ideas? Andres can include that in this Data update. (I assume you can handle Alchemy in the CS, Andres. I'm sure you can)

[Nomadic1]

Hmm... asking a bit.

Nibenay Valley Holy Wine: Not really sure. Bump its price down to 100 and keep the religious link IMO. Nibenese Chapel Wine? Maybe something better.

Colovian Wine: Always a dumb name since we always knew most of the cities mentioned in the next wines were in Colovia. Name it after the Tamika winery and price it around 75.

Anvil Wine: "Cheap Wine"? 30? 40?

Skingrad Wine: "Surilie Brothers Wine"? 50? 60?

Kvatch Wine: Maybe a keeper on the name, unless I forgot a winery. 30? 40? 50?

Sutch Wine: Jale wrote a book about how crappy this wine is IIRC. Keep the name, price about 20 or 30.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

What about the effects? Just halve them or something?

And change the Holy Wine's effects totally, IMO. Sanctuary and Curse Removal. From wine?!

Frankly I'd keep the names the same, BTW, as there's dialogue about them. Even if it is slightly 'weird'.

[Nomadic1]

I didn't even check the effects. Copy those from Oblivion for sure and change the crappy ones. Anyway, I'm going to bed now.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Has the latest version of Data been uploaded yet, or are things still going on?

[Andres Indoril]

Nope, been quite busy with stuff not related to TR

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

No problem. Just wondering whether I needed to download it or not. Take as much time as you need (within reason ).

[Andres Indoril]

My awesome memory makes me ask what I was supposed to put in the next version anyways?
-The leveled creatures
-Aro's door
-Cheapify the wines


Anything else?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I have some ideas for a couple of extra things, so wait a bit, if you can, but apart from that you're right. (As long as by "levelled creatures" you mean the whole of the .esp I uploaded here.)

[Andres Indoril]

(As long as by "levelled creatures" you mean the whole of the .esp I uploaded here.)

Aye, that I did.

[Andres Indoril]

So, anyways, I will now mention that I will not update TR_Data again, so these updates have to be added by someone else

-The leveled creatures
-Aro's door
-Cheapify the wines
-MAH BANNER!
-Dunmereth Meshes
-Necrom Meshes

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Bugger. At least that gives me time to get my extra stuff together, but we do really need someone else who knows how to do this, though.

[Haplo]

I'm updating it now. I'm adding Andres' Banner, fixing the Wines, adding the Dunmereth meshes, Aro's door, any Necrom meshes that I can, and checking out that .esp you uploaded above (any info on that?)... what is it you're getting together?

[Haplo]

OMG it's been like totally been updated!

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

The file I uploaded was:

"Wilderness Levelled Lists
Roamers (They were introduced in Map 1, so it'd be weird if they just disappeared)
Scripts for NPCs (e.g. TR_m2_NPC, TR_m2_NoLoreNPC etc.)
The meshes for Darconis." (From OP)

I am also working on a number of Data related tweaks: several levelled lists need changing to be lore/gameplay friendly (e.g. no Bats in interior Daedric levelled lists), female Redoran guards to be created, toning down the Armor Centurions (they're way too hyped up for Dwemer mechs: speed 80 on the Sentinel? WTF? Make 'em more similar to other similar levelled creatures, and fittingly slow and mechlike, not athletic sprinters), add "BEGIN TR MAP'X' TRADES" dividers in 'my trade' topic, and I've asked Jellew if he could mesh some statue plans I came up with, for some Saints and also some Necrom Ordinators for the Necrom causeway. He's working on those currently.

If you need the plans, here they are: (see below)

I assume there's no problem with some bonus cool statues, but if there is, I'll tell Jellew not to worry about them. I couldn't find any appropriate place to put concepts, so I just PMed him straight off. (Various other stuff like the Ayem and Seht trioliths were done by him on an impromptu basis too.)

[aro101]

I do love the idea of adding such statues. It really would give some climate. They should be quite easy to be made (If we go with vanilla meshes). All that it would need is importing the right nifs into the modelling software, putting them together into the desired statue and then extreme filtering of the used textures. Sounds easy, but I would like to hear also jellews opinion. The only problem might be how busy and small our modelling department is right now.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yep, Jellew's got started. And it is that simple.

Problem is how busy he is, so it may take a little while. I told him not to rush it. The main issue is getting a good texture for the statue (so it's like the vanilla St. Delyn/Olms statues, stony but also maintaining original texture detail)

[Nomadic1]

Looks good.

I just have a couple of things about the St Veloth one to type about. If you look at his depiction on shrines, his armour is only on his upper body - his lower body is covered by robes.

While I am impressed by the quirk of having St Veloth always point east, I have no doubt that TR modders wouldn't use the statue in that manner. Reason being that on Vvardenfell, every single Temple has its door on the western side. But in TR, the only Temple I know of which has its door on the western side is the one in Kragenmoor - which I put there.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I am also rather unsure about Veloth's lower body myself. I don't entirely like how it looks currently. The problem is, there's no 'easy fix' way to get cool robes and stuff going on down there.

Much as I like 'em, the TR 'skirt-robes' (as seen on Redorans) don't really look right, and also would constrict his pose (you can't really pose the skirts), and I want him to look domineering and in-charge, so a 'spread, securely planted feet' look is essential (IMO). He is the famous leader, after all.

If anybody had the time to make some unique robey stuff for there, that'd be awesome, but I'm pretty sure Jellew's pressed as it is, what with RL work and all.


Oh, and I don't quite get what you mean about him not being able to be pointed to the east. Can you possibly explain your reasoning again? I'm not entirely sure why where the entrance of the Temple is affects it. (One example place I was thinking of having one put would be to re-dedicate the large 'Chapel of St. Felms'/whatever, in Almalexia to St. Veloth, a figure more fitting of such a prominent Chapel. There, the statue stands on the roof, so would be no problem to point east)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Speaking to Jellew, he says that he is still under pressure right now, so do we have any other people capable of doing modelling for Morrowind?

He can finish the St. Seryn statue soonish, but the other two being done by someone else would probably give the man a little less stress.

Is there anyone with the requisite skills (namely the tiniest bit of modelling expertise, enough to modify the hands of Veloth and Ordinator to point, and to merge the needed body parts (I've got lists of the right ones for anyone who is willing)) who would be able?

Also, if anyone'd be able to get anything done about getting Veloth some 'ash-cloak/robey-ness' going on, that'd be awesome-awesome. Perhaps one of our concept guys could whip up a sketch of what it'd look like? (I don't have the artistic skillz) Not necessary at all, though, for it to be added.


If no-one is willing, Jellew should be able to get the others done, just it'll take a bit longer.

[Haplo]

So, there are no errors in the version I uploaded? Excellent. If you haven't checked... do so!