q1-77-Tel

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Why
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Post by Why »

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q1-77-Tel (#1703)
Faction: Telvanni
Parent claim: TR_1-37-Tel (#61)
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 40%)
Location: (4020, 1473)
Files: TR_q1-77-Tel_Faalen_1.esp; TR_q1-77-Tel_Faalen_2.esp; TR_q1-77-Tel_Faalen_3.esp; TR_q1-77-Tel_Faalen_4.esp; TR_q1-77-Tel_Why_1.esp; TR_q1-77-Tel_Why_2.esp

---

ON HOLD -- These should be around 3 quests. It is playable after the main quest and these should be played to get Dral to vote you as councilor. These involve the pocket world, a new interior can be created but it needs to be based upon the already made pocket world.
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Post by Jedak »

Could someone tell me what the pocket world is?
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Pocket Worlds are like daedric realms. They exist in the voidstreams of Oblivion, and fall into and out of creation. Men and mer sometimes find these whilst in creation and bound them into permanent existance through the use of anchors and magicka wells. But doing so is incredibly difficult and in most cases relies on the support of a Daedric lord.

If you really want to know about them (better than that rough description above), go to the Imperial Library and read the Battlespire storyline. Both the Soul Cairn and the Battlespire are actual pocket realms, and some of the other places such as the Shade Perilous are part of the Daedric realms. Be warned, the storyline is quite involved.
<insert witty signature here. i might spend time trying to come up with something, but its not like anybody reads these anyway>
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Post by Jedak »

Thanks, Nomadic. I just needed to be refreshed :]
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Post by Theo »

One of the quests could involve rendez vous with Hermaeus Mora in one of pocket words and asking him several questions. As Hermy is supposed to be lord of secret and weird knowledge, Dral will have some questions for him and will send you to one of pocket worlds to question him.
Dral will tell you 3 very weird questions full of strange words, he wants to ask you to Hermy. He will also give you some present for the Daedric prince. Then he teleports you to the pocket world, where you have to fight some daedra and complete some puzzles to reach Hermy. Depending on your intelligence you will have choice of questions to ask (the bigger intelligence, the lesser selection). If your character is not intelligent enough, you will have to pick the right question from selection of very similar ones, so you need to memorize it word by word. You receive similarly cryptic answers from Hermy, whatever you ask. In the same way you deliver Hermy's answers to Dral. I would suggest creating brand new pocket world for this, but possibly smaller then that for Main Quest.
Yeah - lets do Hermy's realm!
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Post by theviking »

Good idea, Dral is just the person to be interested in Hermaeus Mora. Maybe the quest to ask something to Hermy would lead you to two sidequests; Hermaeus Mora wants you to do two tasks for him. All that together would lead to 3 quests and a very happy Dral. Do you want to design this, Theo? A pocket world isn't the realm of a daedric prince however, although it can be dedicated to one. I also believe there was a Hermaus Mora element in the original pocket world for the mainquest. You might want to check that out before we have two duplicate quests.
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Post by Theo »

Well, I could design it I suppose. Hermy has no direct role in MQ, I am sure.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I'd be wary though. I'm not up on the lore of pocket worlds, but a) can a Daedric Prince make an appearance there, b) would Hermy want to make an appearance there, and most importantly, c) can we make this not be underwhelming. Any meet up with a prince as cool as Hermaeus Mora has to be blindlingly cool. Anything less just makes it terribly underwhelming.
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Post by theviking »

You can use the statue of Hermaeus Mora, thats in TR_data. and it should be cool, even cooler than the oblivion quest but that is easy. Oh, and granted.
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Post by Theo »

Here come my first suggestions. Please lore-check and discuss.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Seems good, but again, I fear that last quest would just be insanely underwhelming, and very hard to do as cooly as it deserves to be done. And again, why would Hermy show up 'on demand'?
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Post by theviking »

The first quests seems solid to me, but I agree with BC that the last quests still need to be improved. Also perhaps instead of a meeting with Hermaeus Mora the guys of the Hermites could give you a location were he sometimes dwells. Then when you go there you still have to find him and get him to talk to you. That sounds more like a daedric prince. Oh, and can the mudcave with daedric ruin be somewhere on the big Telvanni island; that place still is really empty. The beginning is good, Theo!
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Post by Theo »

I would also like this quest not be underwhelming. Big part of the task will lie on the interior maker and the person who will write dialgoues and journal to give it the proper feel. I agree with thevikings suggestion. Hermite guy could just give you directions to Hermy's resting place. There you would have to find him first and then do some favor for him. I am still not very sure what could you do in favor of daedra prince. Suggestions?
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Post by Gnomey »

Hm, how about this for an ending: One of the Hermites, one of the more important ones/the most important one, teleports the PC to a pocket realm and tells him to find a hidden shack in a very remote section of the realm. (I suggest giving the realm a somewhat path-like shape with cliffs, large rocks and small nookes flanking a central path which runs between some sort of main shrine/sigil tower and the entrance area, with the shack being hidden along the way).

When the player enters the shack he finds out that the interior is large and made of Daedric architecture, with a huge statue of Hermaeus Mora sprawling across the floor from wall to wall. Between two tentacles there would be a little shrine type of place with braziers along the outside of the area and a censure hanging down from above. There the player will find the Hermite who gave him the directions. When the player comes close, the Hermite would fall into a trance (set fatigue to 0), and would forcegreet the player. The question asking would then follow. When the PC is done, the Hermite will regain his fatigue, teleport back to Tamriel with the player and tell him to return to Dral with the answers.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

I like that. However, only Dral is uber enough to create/manipulate/teleport people to/from the pocket realm.
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Post by Gnomey »

Oops, I thought that the pocket realm was supposed to belong to the Hermites, or was a pocket realm of Hermy's. (By which I mean a realm which is not part of his main realm, Apocrypha, but which he aquired later on through whatever means). My mistake. A pocket realm isn't very important to my idea anyway.
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Post by Gnomey »

I'll never get over the lack of an edit button... Anyway, how about this:

Dral says that you can use one of his older planes/his old plane to summon Hermy, but to do so you will probably need the help of one of his worshippers. Then come the quests in which the player gets access to the Hermite cave. After the player does him some favours, one of the Hermites will agree to go to the pocket realm with the player. He will then have to go back to Dral with the player, (teleportation?), who will bring them both to the pocket realm. Dral will have prepared a shrine-y place where the Hermite can do his stuff, and the trance part will follow.

For this idea, I'd imagine the pocket realm having two platforms, both with a (purple?) carpet and surrounded by braziers and dead trees, with a tree-lined path linking them. The first would be the teleportation area and the second would be the "open air" shrine. I'd especially like it if the branches of the trees reach over the path, only leaving two spots in the middle of the platforms where the player could squeeze through with levitation, if it was enabled.

The Hermite would escort the player to the second platform, stopping in the middle of it and falling into the trance as described. When they're done the player and the hermite would return to the first platform and be teleported back, though the Hermite would not reappear beside the player, but in the Hermite cave.
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Post by theviking »

Theo, how's this going?
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Post by Theo »

I believe all needs to be done for this to become claimable is to bring some specifications for quest 3. I suggest this:

1) The leader of the Hermites will agree that he will be teleported with you by Dral to a pocket world, where Hermy is known to rest sometimes and help you to find him and ask away your questions.
2) Your first goal is to find Hermy's chamber in pocket world and make sure your companion survives on the way there.
3) Then your companion tries to call Hermy to meet you there. You have to protect him from Daedra attacks, which appear as he tries to summon hermy.
4) Finally when Hermy is reached he will ask you to do a service for him and kill some particularly annoying blasphemous worshiper, which exited his cult and retrieve a book he has stolen from his library.
5) Hermy teleports you back to the real world, find the guy (it might be one of Hermites, but also can dwell elsewhere). Once you retrieve the book you are teleported back to the pocket world.
6) Now you can ask your questions, if you remember them and then Hermy disappears and you have to find your way back to Dral. Your companion wishes to stay and worship his lord from this especially interesting place.
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Post by Jedak »

Maybe it would be best if hermy was only contacted by voice.
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Post by theviking »

Sorry for my late reply, but I checked the previous versions of the pocket world and none of them were dedicated to Hermaeus Mora. That's actually a good thing, because that means you quests will be very original. For the last quest, I feel that it needs a devious twist. One idea I have is to make the companion the stealer of the book somehow. I mean, who will suspect him. The one who gets the solution to that riddle is wise indeed and that is just a sort of thing a daedric prince of wisdom will get pleaure from. As for the book, maybe he had it in position all his life and Hermy foresaw this occasion. There should be clues, but they should be very vague, like a riddle hermy speaks out to you.
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Post by Theo »

Good Idea! It might go on in the following way:
1) Hermy will hint that he once gave his sacred book to a potent mage, who was so hungry for secret knowledge, that he pledged to serve Hermy in exchange for book of his wisdom. However he took the book and withdraw to solitude igonring is Lords order to initiate new candidates into his secret.
2) Dral will remember, that there was such a mage and give his description (resembling the follower), but will suggest asking hermites again.
3) From several cryptic clues of hermitesplayer will find out it was his companion, who Hermy had in mind and discovers his secret stash with the book.
4) As he touches it he is teleported back to pocket world, but has to slay his companion who claims the book for himself.

But I would not complicate this quest any further... It is long and complex enough as it is now.
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Post by theviking »

If you make a summary or add it all together, I think it is designed sufficiently. Using the past in the last quest makes it more explainable and layered (couldnt find better words to say it.) Could you also make descriptions for the new interiors needed for the claim? I thought those were the hermites cave and the Hermaeus Mora pocket realm.
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Post by Theo »

Here it goes (with some more twists in first two quests).
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Wonderful.

For the claimer (if it's not me) TEMPLE_MEMBER should be Ratagos.

Two issues: I'm not sure about Ratagos confronting the player upon leaving the Hermite's cave. Some Temple 'mercenaries' are okay, but Ratagos shouldn't be put in danger as an important quest character elsewhere, and also he has better things to do than lurk outside this cave waiting for the PC to turn up. I'm unsure about this whole part in general (the Temple ambush) too, because I don't really see the Temple hiring mercenaries either. More likely it'd be Ordinators with this kind of thing, but again, they have better things to do.

Finally, the reward is batshit insane! (And I use that in it's strongest possible sense :P)

Remember, the player can just take it off when they go outside and then be invincible in any place other than an exterior. That would be the most uber piece of kit ever, gamebreakingly so.
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Post by Theo »

Well - for this purpose I believe another member of Temple could be introduced to keep Ratagos out of business and saving him for temple quests (the same goes for Thieves guild). And yes instead of mercenaries some temple inquisitors should intervene.

Well, the player could still be wounded by magic or magical weapons (or those made of more precious materials), but perhaps it is quite uber and sufficiently high chameleon effect will be good enough for the robe. It is up to the maker, anyway.
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Post by Gnomey »

"Dral say he knows of no other Hermy worshippers, but those in the cave, but if he understands what Hermy said correctly, the
worshiper managed to gather some community around him before he started to rebel and closed it of the world. He suggests it
must be somebody from the community."

Didn't the Temple leader seal the cave? You make it sound as though he was the one who stole the book. (Not that that's a bad idea either; he could have actually been the first leader of the Hermites who later left, perhaps leaving the book behind for the next leader to study. In that case, the player would have to talk to him first before arriving at his conclusion).

I also agree that the cloak is too uber, and I don't find it too likely that he wanted the player to answer questions so that he could create a robe for the player, even if he can make another one for himself. IMHO he doesn't seem the type to create new items, rather to study old words and items. Personally, I suggest this for the ending:

Dral will agree to support the player and will tell the player to leave him in peace so that he can research the player's findings. If the player presses him, Dral will tell him to return in a week.

If the player answered his questions correctly: Dral will be pleased and will give the player a rather powerful artifact. (Maybe some item connected with Hermy, making some comment like "Take this. I have kept it in my study for a long while but you are the first to have shown yourself worthy of owning it.")

If the player gave false answers, Dral will seem preoccupied and will simply shove some "pocket money" (some low random number, like 132) into the players hands, saying something like "My research isn't doing as well as I had hoped. Here, take this for your troubles and leave me to further contemplate the answers of Hermaeus Mora.
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Post by theviking »

Theo, if you can implement the latest requests and press finish, I can send it to unclaimed... Thanks for designing this.
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Post by Theo »

Updated and finished.
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Post by theviking »

Sending to unclaimed. Oops your latest text file seems to have dissapeared. Can you attach it again to your latest post?
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Post by Theo »

The attacment is still there (in my attachment control panel), but suddenly I am not authorized to download it. What a mess :x
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Post by Gez »

Upload it again with another name, and delete the bogus one from your control panel.
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Post by Theo »

New version... (I cannot upload attachments here)

Well, this quest should be VERY creepy and weird. I have also idea for several new locations, which should
support this feel. You may want to create new NPC for TEMPLE_MEMBER, but to not use Ratagos due to quest conflicts.
This guy should be just a sidekick and librarian (must not be in Ranyon-Ruhn temple base neither). The LEADER might
be some Dunmer looser guy anywhere you wish. You can use some of the existing NPCs.

1: Hermites
Lord Dral has several questions for Hermaeus Mora. However he is unsure how this secretive daedra could be reached.
He knows there has been rumors about group of strange people calling themselves "Hermites", who are dedicated
to this daedra and perhaps would know how to reach him. It is not a proper cult, but rather bunch of weirdos,
who have been inspired by strange revelations and decided to separate from human society and spend their lives
meditating on the arcane secrets in complete isolation.
However Dral is unsure about their current doings and whereabouts.
He remembers a long time ago cavedwelling of hermites has been discovered, but the Temple decided that the cave
will be sealed of magically and hermites will be left to their fate. You are to go to Ranyon-Ruhn and ask Temple
member TEMPLE_MEMBER, to allow you to look into archives.
TEMPLE_MEMBER is first very unwilling to cooperate with you, but you have to persuade him somehow (if you are member
of the Temple he agrees, otherwise he asks you to go to some Ancestral Tomb and cleanse it of the vampire infestation
(with Lost Boy deleted this can be the ruinous crypt north of Gah Ouadaruhn.) You should also mind to kill vampires
which are hiding in the sarcophagi (key has to be added for the back room)).
If your reputation is high enough, TEMPLE_MEMBER allows you to look into the Temple archives (where???) (some creepy
diary has to be written for this purpose). There you find out approximate location of the cave, and also information
that former leader of the temple LEADER was responsible for sealing the cave. TEMPLE_MEMBER will tell you that LEADER
is already retired and lives humble life in Gah Ouadaruhn. You have to go and speak with LEADER, if you want to know
more about the way how, to open the cave.
However if you find LEADER, you find out he is rather senile and babbling nonsense. You have to fortify his intelligence
so that you could speak with him and even so it is very difficult. He hardly remembers some additional information about
the caves location and tells you that the cave was sealed by magical amulet, which is in possession of the Temple. Go and
speak with TEMPLE_MEMBER, he will say this amulet was stolen from Temple unfortunately and he is not going to give you any
more information where to find it as he is not happy about the idea of opening of the cave. He also makes you promise him,
that even if you recover the amulet, you will not use it to free any of the Hermites.
Ask Thieves Guild member (The argonian do not use Silironwe - she is already overloaded with quests and this argonian has no
quest on it) and it will admit they stole it for Eldale (Again, you need to have good reputation so that Eldale agrees to sell
this amulet to you for 1000 gp, if you pay her she gives you key from tombs under her tower, where the amulet can be picked up
and warns you, that you shouldn't touch anything else). Or you can break in and steal the amulet.
Once you have the amulet and you approach formation of menhirs east of PT, they suddenly start to submerge under ground (effect)
and reveal entrance to Hermites dwelling.

2: Rendez vous
Hermites dwelling is half mudcave half daedric ruin full of scum, weird mushrooms, moss and azure lights. Lots of bookcases
are everywhere. Several cavedwellings can be accessed from the main cave. Most of the hermites is shaggy, some are blind and
most are slightly mad, living only on the mushrooms growing in the cave. Most of them are however magically very potent and
some may be aggressive.
Among those ruined existences you have to find someone who is still capable to speak with you. He will tell you he can speak
with his master and negotiate conditions of rendezvous, if you do him small favor. He had a revelation of you and knows you
are the one who comes from Vvardenfell. As this guy is fond of "divine disease", he would be fascinated to study effects of
this illness on himself. You need to bring him some corpus weepings so that he can infect himself with this disease.
If you do so, he will agree that he will be teleported with you by Dral to a pocket world, from where Hermy could possibly be
reached and will help you to find him.
He accompanies you on your way to Dral. If your companion survives and you manage to bring him to Dral, he teleports you both
to the pocket realm. Before he urges that you ask Hermy proper questions.

3: Questions for Hermaeus Mora.
Pocket world should look like a maze of narrow valleys made of BC-cliffs just as wide for stairs to go down and up again. (You
can use daedric or BC rock-stairs and natural terrain of course). Levitation should be disabled and there should be permanent
Fog (or better permanent clear night if possible). From up of the cliffs winged twilight and other daedric fliers come down
to attack you and your companion. Hermy's chamber will be a daedric ruin with his statue situated in oval valley. The cliffs
should make impenetrable surroundings to make it claustrophobic and the level should be really maze-y. Black LavaSquares can be
used to cover whole map and render it invisible.
Your first goal is to find Hermy's chamber in pocket world and make sure your companion survives on the way there. Then your
companion tries to summon Hermy. You have to protect him from Daedra attacks, which appear as he performs lengthy summoning
ceremony. Once Hermy appears, he will ask you for a favor.
Hermy will hint that he once gave his sacred book to a potent mage, who was so hungry for secret knowledge, that he pledged
to serve Him in exchange for book of his secret wisdom. However he took the book and withdraw to solitude igonring is Lords
order to initiate new candidates into his secret. He tells you also this was the founder of the Hermite community, but had
decided to leave it before the cave was sealed. He wants you to find and retrieve a book from this guy. Then he teleports
you back to the Hermites cave. However all hermites are dead and there are aggressive Ordinators inside. Within dwelling of
your companion there is broken hidden stash, but inside are only some soulgems and scrolls. It is obvious from the placement
of the items, that book was taken from there (Journal). You need to go back to TEMPLE_MEMBER.
He will admit it was him, who received the book from Hermy and founded the community. However soon he realized that the
secrets in the book could be used to acquire great power and became discontent with the order, that the knowledge should
remain secret and known only to chosen followers of Hermy. However other hermites rebelled against him and he had to flee the
cave and leave the book behind. Still he learned much from it so that he could influence minds of other people. He has joined
Temple and advanced in the ranks, becoming great inquisitor and witchhunter. He persuaded the LEADER to seal the cave, until he
will be powerful enough to come back and reclaim the book from cultists. Now the time has come and PC served as his instrument
in persuading Temple leaders in Necrom to send Ordinators to wipe out the cult. He has the book now and will demonstrate the
PC power he gained studying it. Kill him. (The book should teach some powerful spell, not in BoT spellbook selection yet).
After claiming the book, PC has to get back to the pocket world. He comes back to Dral, but he is curious what was PC's
business with Hermy:

1) Tell him, that Hermy asked you to get the book.
- Dral will suggest that you bring the book to him instead and will not teleport you to the pocket world, unless you really
persuade him. If you give him the book, he says he will study it and will tell you to come back in a week. However if you do
so, you find out he has disappeared. No explanation given.
2) Tell him that you promised Hermy to deal with a blasphemous revenant.
- Dral will believe you and will teleport you to the pocket world if you ask him to do so.

Stupid replies, possibly do not include:
3) Tell Dral Hermy already gave you the answers. Then he asks you away and you have to make the answers of your head. You probably
fail (see failure).
4) Tell Dral you failed to reach Hermy. He is angry and tells you to get lost.

If you return to the pocket world, you are attacked by your follower there, who claims the book for him (he wants it for himself
as well). Kill him and bring the book to Hermy. He is pleased that you have shown your intellect finding the book and the leader.
Then lets you to ask the questions of Dral. The more intelligent your character is the lesser is selection of questions you can
ask to Hermy (if it is stupid, it can confuse them). After receiving answers you are teleported back and you have to answer Dral's
questions as Hermy did (again low intelligence will give more options).

After answering to Dral, he will say he will start his research and tells you to come back in a week.
If you are successful Dral is pleased and will give you mentioned cloak of night.
If you give him wrong answers, Dral says his research is not going as well as he hoped, but blames it on his wrong understanding
of the answers and not on you. However you still have less powerful artifact in the end (Several degrees of spoiled robe can be
made (sun damage, slow fatigue drain, lesser effet...), depending on how many wrong answers you gave or how "stupid" they were.)

Even if you fail, you should get other reward then money. It is an Telvanni Archmagister quest and to complete it you need to be at
least level 25>. At this point money is completely useless to you as you cannot buy any worthy equipment for them.
THEO
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Post by Hemitheon »

While I was modding the pocket realm for this questline, I thought of some revisions and wanted to share. I think my idea would add that next step of depth. But then again who doesn't think that of their ideas.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

Hmm. I rather prefer the old one, but there are some elements of both that I like/dislike.

In the old one, I'm not a fan of 'Temple Member' being the founder of the cult, nor the 'mindless violence in the Pocket Realm'.

However, in your one, I don't like the fact that its not Dral's Pocket Realm and that some other dude takes you there. (This rules out the "tramps' souls" bit)

But in your one, I much prefer the idea of Hermy's task taking place in the Pocket Realm. Seeing as it's Dral's realm, we could imagine that there's something of Dral's in there acting as a keystone or whatever, that Hermy wouldn't normally have access to. (Perhaps the book you spoke of early in yours) Hermy can have a laugh enjoying how 'this realm pales in comparison to my own' and how Dral's attempts at 'Apocryphising it' are a bit patronising, like the room of books (which is a classy touch, BTW, but to Hermy its far from the real thing).

This makes Hermy seem far superior to everyone else, and is better than him 'not knowing where Book 2 is', even though its in his own realm, and allows him to get the 'one-up' on Dral.

Finally, I think the wording for your questions and answers are too simple - it's got to be hard for the player to remember them.
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Post by Hemitheon »

Well Dral's pocket realm is so vast it could belong to him technically. Perhaps Dral had created this pocket realm as a gift or offering to HM in exchange for secret wisdom. That would fit into your idea.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

I doubt Hermy would take up that offer. He would be more than satisfied with his own realm.
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Post by Hemitheon »

Personally, I agree with you, Nomadic. Why would HM assume control of something belonging to Rilvin Dral, a mere mer. HM knows the mysteries of existence and creation but he need Dral's pocket realm? I say its a realm created by HM in order to study his theories.

Besides that, this would mean Rilvin Dral has 3 pocket realms. And Im sorry but he is no where powerful enough to sustain that much. Maybe Sotha Sil or Vehk could but Dral, no.
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Post by theviking »

Keep in mind that the second one is almost destroyed (i1-66) but still Hemi is correct in that this would not be Dral's realm. I mean, he is looking for some knowledge from HM and he would have found it by now if it was his own pocket realm. Not to mention that a pocket realm is limited to the knowledge that the person had when it was created. In my opnion it should be vague to which one this belongs, but this is the place were HM occasionaly travels so you maybe can catch him here.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Or perhaps this is a pocket world created by the Hermites? It is doubtful a Daedric Lord would leave their own realm to go to another for a holiday. So maybe the Hermites created this world with Hermy's help so that they could do their research more effectively. It would kinda mirror TESIV's Daedric shrine quest where he has the PC trap the souls of the different races so that his followers could study them.

Dral might have been searching through Oblivion (either by some scrying technique, research in obsured texts or interviewing wayward and elemental daedra) for the existance of various pocket worlds and have discovered this particular one. Seeing then its association with Lord Hermaeus Mora, he sends the PC there to take care of his business, being too busy with his own pocket world experiments.

But what is the reason behind Dral's obsession behind pocket worlds? Sure it would be great to have one and all, but I doubt a powerful Telvanni lord would go through as much effort as he does just to have a holiday home or a lab which glows blue.
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