Map 3 NPC Claim #2 [Yeti]

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Map 3 NPC Claim #2 [Yeti]

Post by Haplo »

Map:

[url=http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9596/map3detailingclaim2hl4.jpg][img]http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9596/map3detailingclaim2hl4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Almas Thirr & Dondril & Roa Dyr
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TR_Map_3_Detailing_A2.esp
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Last edited by Haplo on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:16 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Nemon »

I am taking this for the moment, in order to create a concept for the Thirr river region I'd like both sides of the river. But I will mainly focus on the Thirr part of this, since not all of it is being Thirrified.
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Post by Katze »

Are you actually making these, or just planning? I'd really like to do a Thirr River Valley claim myself at some point.
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Post by Nemon »

Cathartis wrote:Are you actually making these, or just planning? I'd really like to do a Thirr River Valley claim myself at some point.
Hehe, I'm not doing the entire Thirr region no. It's mainly the planning. I need to see how it looks on both sides of the river.
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Post by Haplo »

Unlocking. Detailing time! For the coast, please match it as close as possible to the latest file for 4-13-Hla. Note that 4-13-Hla's latest file includes a lot of Map 3 land. Also, the Minas Tirith-looking cliff topped with a giant Daedra statue needs to go. Again, please change it to something similar to the area in 4-13-Hla.
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Post by alex25 »

I'd like to claim this if possible since my ext is going well and dosen't have all models done so i can't realy finish it.
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Post by Haplo »

What models do you think you are waiting for? I'm not aware of any you should be waiting on. Also, since you are a new exterior modder, and since your current claim is your first one, and it's a very important claim, I am going to say no to your claiming this.

EDIT: I also would prefer the claimant to cut off the extra cells from 4-13-Hla and use them here; there's a lot changed for the better in Nemon's file.
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Post by Aeven »

Claiming. Will do as requested by Haplo concerning Nemon's cells.
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Post by Haplo »

I would like to see what your plans are for finishing Almas Thirr first. Dondril and Rouaf Duhr are done exterior-wise, but might need some bug-checking.
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Post by Aeven »

I wasn't aware Almas Thirr needed any reworking. What kind of work would you want me to plan out?
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

it is just a canton, no detail has been done. Might be other things as well
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Post by Aeven »

Well, for Almas Thirr, by idea is as follows:

Move the shack village to the east bank, as they're Indoril (or so the claims claim). Add a small velothi style harbour to the canton building (north side) and possibly add some sort of lighthouse, in velothi if possible.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Why would it need a lighthouse?
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Post by Aeven »

So ships at night know how to follow the river.
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Post by Katze »

A full-blown lighthouse seems a bit much for an inland river. Signal fires, maybe. Plus, aren't lighthouses to warn ships of dangerous waters?
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Post by Haplo »

Don't move the foreign quarter, that's completely unnecessary. It is Temple; the claims just were never updated. The "shack village" is the Almas Thirr Foreign Quarter (as specified in the cell in the .esp, IIRC). Almas Thirr just needs detail; I was asking what your plans were for detailing it (adding scaffolding, clutter, a gondola ramp?)
Cathartis wrote:Plus, aren't lighthouses to warn ships of dangerous waters?
Yes.

I would never get on a boat captained by someone who couldn't navigate a straight line.
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Post by Aeven »

Well then, I'd make the gondola ramp accessible, or replace it with a dock. Otherwise, I think this should be similar to the cantons in Vivec, but maybe give this some small market stalls.
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Post by Bloodthirsty Crustacean »

If you could make some Velothi extensions that looked like a natural part of the canton city, that could look quite nice?

Also, haven't 'shack slums' things been overdone? Doesn't really seem in keeping with this high-political location... but this is only a suggestion. Maybe there's a reason for it.
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Post by Aeven »

I do think I could do some velothi additions that look good. But to be entirely honest, I need to know what people really want from this place.
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Post by Yeti »

Aeven wrote:I need to know what people really want from this place.
Though I don't have much expertise with exteriors, I took a look at Almas Thirr and I would have to say that the foreign quarter would look better in Velothi. The shack village just doesn’t look right to my eyes next to a grand canton. It would take a bit of work to redo since all the interiors for those shacks have already been made but there will at least likely be plenty of places in the future where those can be recycled.

Just a suggestion... :)
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Post by Aeven »

What I do know is that one of those Vivec-style banners, but with Almalexia on it, would look really good here.
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Post by Tyrion »

nix the shack village

A collection of velothi buildings away from the canton surrounded by a wall would do a deal better for a "foreign quarter"
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Post by Katze »

Aeven wrote:What I do know is that one of those Vivec-style banners, but with Almalexia on it, would look really good here.
Almas Thirr is Temple, not Indoril. A banner depicting all three triunes or a combined Tribunal symbol would be good, though.
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Post by Adanorcil »

As another suggestion for the (ex-) shack village, for everyone's consideration: do we need a foreign quarter? Really, a foreign quarter is something that should be restricted to just the very biggest cities. In other cities, foreigners would live here-and-there, or just be absent entirely.

I don't really see why this place would need one. I suppose it was the whole canton thing that suggested it. But either way, it's been done before and in more suitable locations. I imagine Almas Thirr is more of a temple stronghold like Molag Mar, conveniently situated on the river. Otherwise it's at risk of just becoming 'another city'.
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Post by Tyrion »

I agree with Adanorcil's post above. A foreign quarter would seem awkward and un-natural here, even more so if it were a shack village.
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Post by Aeven »

Couldn't this just be granted? I can start work on the Thirr valley areas first, and allow the discussion about Almas Thirr to continue first.

What I could do it move the shack village closer to the mouth and put it on the east bank, and make it an ordinary village, perhaps added on to with a max of five Velothi or Indoril buildings. Otherwise, make Almas Thirr a bit like Molag Mar, functioning purely as a Temple fortress.
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Post by Yeti »

Aeven wrote: Otherwise, make Almas Thirr a bit like Molag Mar, functioning purely as a Temple fortress.
Isn't Almas Thirr suppose to be a trade center? That's more or less what Sload had it outlined as here: [url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20019[/url]
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Post by Katze »

I was trying to describe that to Haplo earlier, but didn't know where the thread for it was.
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Post by Tyrion »

Trade center or fortress, it should just be the canton and maybe a cluster of Velothi structures. Remember, the cantons are pretty big.
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Post by Haplo »

Sload's post doesn't mention anything actually happening at Almas Thirr except the tariff, which is what I said on IRC, if I recall correctly. There should be some Velothi structures or whatnot around, but if you can't find a suitable location for the shack village as a whole, break it up into chunks/individual shacks spaced around. The canton proper is still stronghold-centric.

But look at the interiors already in existence for the canton, and place your "Velothi growths" accordingly (think of what isn't already there that needs to be, and add as needed, built-to-fit per se).

Also, have some patience dude.

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Post by Aeven »

If anyone cares to see my idea for Roa Dyr. If people hate it, I'll do something else to it.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Sorry to say I personally don't like it. It takes up three exterior cells, which is overkill. You'll never get it to look right and consistent that way with those pieces. The town doesn't have any "flow" for want of a better word. I'm also left wondering why someone would build a town like that in a place like that in the first place.
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Post by Aeven »

It was always three cells. Anyway, the concept for this originally was to have an Indoril town with canals, but I didn't like the original.
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Post by Tyrion »

It's far too angular, and as the angles are all very odd and not regular it just ends up looking very eclectic and not very pleasing to the eye. I like the idea, but it would be nice if you followed a more natural pattern, like having the town built over a collection of natural islands. I also think it would be really cool if you could terrace the island/platforms, like have two levels, but I don't know how feasible that would be.
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Post by Aeven »

I've restarted work on Roa Dyr, using the old version and going from there. I'm interested in what people thing of it.
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Post by Nomadic1 »

Sorry to say this but I still prefer the original.
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Post by Aeven »

Nomadic, the original is unworkable due to various issues, among others the ind_plat_01 one.

I have rearranged various stuff now, and once it's fully detailed, it should look a lot better.
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Post by Why »

Quick question, is Almas Thirr going to stay as high and bulky as it is? I think it would look way better and more elegant if you brought it down and extended the bridges onto the balcony floor instead of having such a sky-high base. It'd also allow for some easier transition to a hypothetical harbor area attached to the canton.
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Post by Katze »

The bridges need to remain high enough that ships can pass under them, as the river Thirr is the centre of Morrowind ship trade.
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Post by Aeven »

Almas Thirr is no longer getting a harbour, as nearby Roa Dyr will now have a small one.
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