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Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Something someone should have done a long long time ago is develop a good and meaningful master plan for TR. My efforts to organize the worldspace (usually involving maps) were basically ignorant attempts to develop such a master plan.

A masterplan needs to cover 3 things:
    1.The World
    This was always what I was trying to fix when I was at TR, normally after the fact because of how fucked our claim-first-ask-questions-later workflow processes are. The world needs to be balanced on 3 fronts: settled locations need to be balanced to appropriately reflect the social and political character of the Morrowind we want to portray; regional divisons need to be balanced to appropriately reflect the natural and geographic character of the Morrowind we want to portray; dungeon sites need to be balanced to appropriately reflect the difficulty-limitations that create exploration path options for the Morrowind we want to portray.

    2. The Story
    Morrowind is not just an open-world game with a bunch of things happening. Morrowind is telling a story. Running through the main quest and factions there are consistent themes: Morrowind's stagnant social order, corrupt or incompetent power, overcoming outsider status, so on. Our long-running questlines should all work - not directly, but subtly - to reinforce the sort of themes that Morrowind did. We should also agree on what those themes are.

    3. The Project
    Lastly, a master plan needs to incorporate a plan for accomplishing these goals. We have organically developed the system we have in place right now, but frankly it is not meeting TR's needs. Clear control processes need to be put in place to confirm that each development portion of the project is working to meet the master plan.
So, who wants to work on this? A good place to start might be a description of the present state of things.

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Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:59 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

I've done some work on the difficulty part of #1 a while ago ( http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23780 ), and I'll come back to it once 8/8 is over. I have not been very systematic and I left most of maps 1-2 unchanged; now that map 5 is close to completion, it would be a good time to extend https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/83265276/map4-diff.png to map 5 (ironically, map 3 is not yet ready, since the mountain pass I wanted made from Othrensis to Roa Dyr is not there and some landscaping is still to be changed). Of course, the leveled lists will need lots of new monsters, so our 8/8 release post should come with an invitation for modellers.
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Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Sload wrote:
settled locations need to be balanced to appropriately reflect the social and political character of the Morrowind we want to portray
A useful metric to evaluate a settlement is the amount of player activity it is likely to generate - what portion of the player's experience will take place within it. I have created a system of tiers to classify settlements this way:
    Tier I: Faction capitals, great cities, with a host of quests and services, likely over 100 interiors, just the basic 8 (vivec, necrom, OE, and the house capitals).
    Tier II: Secondary faction cities, which contain guild halls and a variety of shops; comparable to Ald-ruhn, Balmora, and Sadrith Mora.
    Tier III: Contain multiple different kinds of shops, very limited faction quests (Gnisis, Suran, Pelegiad).
    Tier IV: The kind of town that has a tradehouse rather than multiple shops, very limtied services and probably no faction quest givers at all (Seyda Neen, Khuul, Tel Aruhn).
    Tier V: Any non-aggressive settlement that doesn't even meet Tier IV standards.
Attached is a spreadsheet documenting the name, faction (and faction irregularities), district, exterior claim number, coordinates, approximate number of interior claims (or equivalents), and tier ranking for each settlement Tier IV or above contained in Morrowind.esm or TR_Mainland.esm.

Once all currently made settlements have been documented in a spreadsheet like this, it is much easier to keep track of our present state and to make adjustments as needed.



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Post Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:01 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



updated to include every major settlement


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Post Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:47 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Tamriel Rebuilt needs a master plan. This plan will be the highest level organizing document for the project, against which all content will be judged to ensure that it is contributing successfully to the whole of Tamriel Rebuilt's goal. This thread is for taking the first steps toward writing that master plan.

I think an effective means of organizing the master plan is the structure which follows.

Preface

§1 - Tamriel Rebuilt's goal and purpose
what are we actually trying to accomplish. what does a "completed TR" look like?

Part I - Worldspace Planning
(Level production; how the mod extends across the game's 3D space)

§2 - Physiographic Worldspace
The physical/natural geography of the project. Mountains, rivers, regions, flora, fauna.

§3 - Anthropographic Worldspace
The cultural/political geography of the project. Faction regions, cities & their scale, roads (major & minor), etc.

§4 - Ludological Worldspace
The gameplay geography of the project. Difficulty levels, dungeon types, etc.

Part II - Storycourse Planning
(Story production; how the mod extends across the game's time length as the player interacts with characters)

Here I am less clear on the breakdown of this part, but I think some of the basic elements of this are:
-determining what role each quest and quest line has in the narrative of the game
-the themes of the questlines
-how their interaction and conflict is sorted out

Part III - Implementing this Plan

What steps do we take to actually reach our goal, now that we have clearly laid it out?

-----

The first step I think will be to actually firmly figure out what TR is doing, and then for people to form breakaway groups to brainstorm each part of the plan. Toward this end I would like to have a skype meeting soon.

More feedback on what elements make up the storycourse of an open-ended RPG would be great too.

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Post Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:02 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

This is all great Sload. I can't really add much right now without delving too much into detail, but I'd like to get the project on the same page on this. Given the importance of this, a Skype meeting would be nice. The fluidity of a live conversation will benefit the deliberation of such important issues, moreso than having a forum discussion would. Since this is so important, I'm posting the Skype details here in this thread.

The topic of the next skype meeting will be Establishing the Master Plan's Preface.

Date: Sunday December 29th, 2013, 2PM EST/7PM GMT | Agenda | Countdown

Hope to see you there.

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Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

I agree with this and like the notion of a Skype meeting, but this is a bit short notice. How many people can attend Swiftoak's time? I hopefully can, but would probably be an hour or so late.
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wollibeebee
Developer
29 Apr 2010



I can, if anyone wants to talk about models and textures, although it's at nine in the morning, so I'll have to eat breakfast at the same time.
Post Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:25 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

I can be there
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gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Looks like an interesting agenda. Internet connection permitting, i'll be there (although I may disappear to have dinner at some point).
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Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I guess I can be there.
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Aeven
Lead Developer
17 Aug 2008

Location: Groningen

I probably won't attend but if I can I'll make sure to do so.
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Post Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:43 pm Send private message       Send e-mail       Reply with quote                   up  
immortal_pigs
Developer
15 May 2008

Location: Utrecht

I'll be there.
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Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



So when we talk factions we're talking about a couple of different things. What I would call the faction-trope is distinct from the joinable faction. It has three parts:

-Scenes, created through exteriors & interiors. Only a minority of faction-tropes have "scenes," those which have enough power to rule spaces.

-Characters, NPCs as people regardless of their role in quests and plotted storylines.

-Quests, those factions which are joinable by the player and which they advance through.

This is a breakdown of the different faction-tropes:

Dunmer

Houses
Hlaalu (scene, character, quest)
Redoran (scene, character, quest)
Indoril (scene, character, quest)
Dres (scene, character, quest)
Telvanni (scene, character, quest)

Non-House Dunmer
Temple (scene, character, quest)
Ashlander (scene, character)
Velothi (character)
Slaves (character)*1

Outlander

Imperial Institution
Legion (scene, character, quest)
Cult (quest)

Settlers
Guilds (quest)
Settlers (scene, character)*2

*1 - Not usually Dunmer race.
*2 - Broken up by the different races.

We should find a way to discuss each of these, and also sign up to be the person who actually writes up the documents on each one. I think a good break down of documents is:

-House Hlaalu
-House Redoran
-House Indoril
-House Dres
-House Telvanni
-Dunmer Society other than Great Houses
-Institutions of the Empire
-Outlanders in Morrowind

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Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I am thinking about a different division for the plan that moves from the general to the specific, building upward from a foundation. This is based on the discussion during the meeting today.

Master Plan 1: The Foundation

§1 - Tamriel Rebuilt's goal and purpose
Building off the mission statement concept from earlier today, this briefly states what Tamriel Rebuilt is trying to accomplish.

§2 - Themes of Morrowind
This outlines the general characteristics and themes that are being presented through the game of Morrowind including the Tamriel Rebuilt mod.

§3 - General Physiology of Morrowind
This outlines how we should determine what regions are like and where they go. It does not get into specific regions. It also lays out any classification tools we need for describing regions in a quantifiable, comparable way. It deals with the wilderness-spaces.

§4 - General Anthropology of Morrowind
This outlines how we should determine the different factions & cultural identities which each settlement & character have, but no specifics about each faction. It lays out any classification tools we need to describe any component of it (such as the settlement tiers). It deals with the settlement-spaces.

====

Master Plan 2: The Aspects of Morrowind

This, divided broadly into physiological and anthropological and probably subdivided further for readability, describes in turn the characteristics of each region and faction as they need to be laid out at this level. These concepts are built off of the foundation of the first section of the master plan.

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wollibeebee
Developer
29 Apr 2010



Another faction I'd like to see - only in map 6 - is the Argonians (and maybe a Hist for Dres quests) living within the Black Marsh land conquered during the Arnesian War. I thought that this would be separate from the "settlers" faction, so I want to just put it out there, although plans are likely already in place for the Lizard Men.

Sorry if this next part belongs in another thread.

I have a few requests for the master plan to take into consideration in regards to the art department.


1.) I'd like to see the design and unclaimed Objects of Tamriel forums merged. By the time something makes its way into the unclaimed forum it typically has some concept art to go along with it, as the claim originated from concept art that has come from outside the design forum (just look at the regional design threads). Claims should either have art from the get go, or a description and if art has not been made and needs to be, then it can be made elsewhere and promptly added to the claim. It might seem counter-productive, but anything that slows down the pipeline is even more so. Another thing is that models are almost always quite different from the original art, so usually the concept art and models have to evolve together (so that when a concept looks unusual as a model, the concept can be updated to become more reasonable, this can often be seen with concepts that begin very alien or bug like, and are then forced to become more normal due to Morrowind's lack of special graphical effects and low poly requirements) and the best way to do that is within a single thread. Also, a lot of good concepts are drawn by modelers, usually the easiest ones to recreate. As such it would make more sense for the concept art to be actively discussed alongside the model claim. This is not to say that the concept should not be made before, but during, but instead that it should continue to remain a relevant and flexible topic during the creation of the model.


2.) Another desirable change would be the ability for senior artists to upload new files directly to the OOT review forum by themselves. It can then be reviewed by a lead artist before being archived into the BSA. The current lack of use of the OOT claim system is really bad, just look at all the recent uploads in my "A Thread for Wolli" thread, not one of those files is in the OOT Finished claims forum or has even been reviewed (except by Haplo as he adds the files). If seniors could upload their assets - which have not originated from a claim - into the claim system, then the system would be much more stable. For obvious reasons the claim forum would be skipped and files would go directly into the review forum if the artist is uploading an already finished file. This would be a brilliant change as it would allow people to "donate" files much more easily to the project - without being scared off by the claim system, something I'm told has long been desired. The only problem here is that the showcase limits would still exist, although I'm sure there is a way around that too. On the other hand, if a modeler begins work on something that they believe will take time, and they wish to begin a discussion about it, then the claims forum is the place to post it in. The claim forum will obviously still be used to open standard claims.
Currently the modeling claim system is on par with the rumors of heard regarding 2002's claim systems; basically anyone (srsly, I'm not even in the modelers group...) Can upload anything anywhere (I've uploaded a few files into an exterior claim...) Everything should be found within the finished art forum, not in random modeler's personal thread, such as my own, Ashstaar's or Melchior's.


3.) The "Objects of Tamriel" name should just be removed at this point, we all know the forum is for. The same can be said for the names of claims themselves. Currently things appear to be numbered with a faction tagged on the end, which doesn't make sense to me. The name of the OOT claim "n5-4-Dre" probably makes sense to someone, but I personally have no idea what the n5-4 mean, and why dre (which I have assumed to mean dres?) has been used when the claim is for Nordic Menhirs in the Redoran territory. It would make so much more sense - to me- if the claim was called "Nordic Menhirs" instead of whatever this cryptic tag means. Actually, speaking of tags, ones such as: flra, terr, ext, int, cre, char, furn and item would be much more useful for the system when it comes to categorizing and searching. The Nordic Menhirs would be known as "Ext: Nordic Menhirs" and the Nixmount would be: Cre: Nixmount. This just makes much more sense to me.


4.) Due to the integration the Master Plan offers between members of TR, both within the same department and between them, I would like for the ability to allow certain (often large) art asset claims to be capable of being claimed multiple people at at the same time. I'm either absolutely insane, or a genius, so read on. When designing a region (and map 6, and eventually map 1 and 2 will need quite a lot of these) a lot of work needs to go into the design process: rocks need to be create or selected and retexture; the flora, including container plants, shrubs, grass and trees all has to be created; various ground textures have to be made, including 2 or more grass, dirt and scrub textures and roads and rocks; the region has to be mocked up in the CS so that the modeler can create meshes that will improve the overall feel and creation process of the region, such as models that act as borders, detailing, fillers, and the odd Swiss-Army-Model and over such highly needed and generic pieces. This entire process is pretty tiresome; I've done it. Leaving it all to a single person is somewhat cruel and having multiple claims for each aspect of the task is simply barbaric. For example: if a set of trees were to be made for the Shipal-Shin, then reviewed and finished, but then later-on they were found to visually conflict with the preferable rock models or ground textures made 2 weeks later, the claim would have to be moved back or remade and the trees would have to be reworked. It would be much easier for everyone if the entire region was developed as a whole by a group or of people all at the same time under the same claim to ensure maximum compatibility and a artistic standard between assets. One problem with this is that an artist may lag behind the others, but that is much more desirable than a single person who was making the entire claim suddenly vanishing due to stress ("real life").


I know there are not many modeler around at the moment, but given the new life (to the eyes of the public) this new site layout and the "master plan" has given TR I hope to see a few more dropping in. As such I'll be writing a few tutorials in the following weeks (and nagging people to delete the old ones...) I want to ensure that in the case that some do arrive they'll be able to get straight into making important claims (whilst I continue to grind away fixing all the older models so that they can make us new ones... Razz ) The art department needs bringing up to the same standard that the quest and worldspace departments have been in during recent years, and I think now is the best time to do it.


Also, first ti[m]e posting, be gentle.
Post Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:55 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



I said this to wolli in IRC but before moving on to the body of my post I want to acknowledge that wolli's suggestions are spot on. They're organization-focused so I think they're outside the topic of the "Master Plan" (which is content-focused), but we should talk about how to implement them somewhere.

----

I have a first draft done of the Master Plan Foundational Document. It is incomplete. Its primary point of incompleteness will be discussed further down this post.

This document is focused on structuring the reasoning by which we decide what is the best way for Morrowind to be. It tries to avoid, as much as possible, a discussion of actual implementable decisions - such as specific regions or factions - in favor of examining what criteria we should use when evaluating questions of that sort. It is structured in five sections:

-The first section is a brief statement of Tamriel Rebuilt's goal.

-The second section is a description of the themes of Morrowind which we want to continue to include in our project.

-The third section is a description of the wilderness & dungeons, and how to properly balance the attributes that each of those have across the project.

-The fourth section is a description of the settlements & NPCs and how to properly balance the attributes that each of those have across the project.

-The fifth section deals with quests as elements of the game narrative, including identifying the five structural ways they can influence the player's narrative engagement with the game.

The second section is as yet unwritten. I want to talk to all of you: what are the themes of Morrowind? What is Morrowind about? Please respond with thoughts if you have any.

Using this document as a basis for making right decisions, we should begin producing qualitative descriptions of our mods' regions & faction-tropes. I think for now, given where our productive emphasis is heading, we should focus on producing documents about these:

-[Faction] House Hlaalu
-[Faction] House Indoril
-[Faction] Outlanders
-[Faction] Empire
-[Region] Thirr River Valley
-[Region] Alt Orethan
-[Region] Lan Orethan
-[Region] Roth Roryn



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Post Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:30 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
gro-Dhal
Lead Developer
05 Nov 2006

Location: A charter'd street

Posting some very basic notes i've made about some of the outlander races, why they would be in Morrowind etc

Orcs
Many of the Orcs of Morrowind arrived as soldiers of the Imperial Legion. Service in the Legion guarantees imperial citizenship, and is the best bet for Orcs looking for the privileges and protection that come from being part of the Empire. Those who serve in the Legion mainly have no particular interest in Morrowind or its people. Some, however, grow attached to the country and decide to settle there once they’ve mustered out and become citizens. Thus the majority of Orcs in MW are military veterans. They tend to be straightforward, reliable people, although they can be prone to violence and have little regard for the niceties of law. A sizeable number of these Orcs remain worshippers of Malacath, and are drawn to the Daedric shrines of the province.

Redguards
The Redguards are wanderers and adventurers by nature, and many become traders and mercenaries. As such, they travel far and wide in search of new opportunities and experiences. Redguards outside of Hammerfell are rarely ‘settled’, and are often already making plans to move on somewhere else. Redguard wanderlust means they readily adapt to life in Morrowind, although they are boisterous and outgoing by the conservative standards of the Dunmer.

Altmer
The Altmer are an insular people, and those who leave Summerset are considered eccentric by the majority. The rigidity of Altmeri culture means it is fairly easy for an Altmer to fall foul of esoteric regulations or political manoeuvring, and exile from the homeland often follows. Leaving Summerset is a major culture shock, and it can take centuries for an Altmer adapt to a strange environment like Morrowind. Many of the province’s High Elves, while appearing outwardly normal and civil, are nursing private neuroses and a general resentment of their circumstances- Morrowind is a squalid and impoverished land compared to home.

Argonians
While it is possible for Argonians to interact cordially with members of other races, they are the most truly alien of all the Empire’s citizens and perceive the world very differently to everyone else. Consequently their true motives and feelings are impossible to discern. Many arrive in the province as slaves and some are subsequently released, or escape to an area under Imperial jurisdiction where they rely on the inability of other races to distinguish between them to forge a new identity. Some come as free Imperial citizens, but they must remain constantly on guard to avoid being seized by opportunistic Dunmer slavers.

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Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



This pdf is an example of a region Master Plan document, using the Thirr River Valley - which we mostly have figured out already. This document is written hastily and is probably imperfect. It should be improved by someone. It serves as an example of the structure of similar documents which should be drafted for every region.


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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:17 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Jule
Reviewer
01 May 2007

Location: Wilderness

I believe one of the major problems with TR is the lack of coordination between the various steps of building the world. Since this is too vague a statement, I'll try to be more precise: what struck me as weird was the fact that Almalexia, which is now a major obstacle that has to be conquered, was planed without a coherent vision as to what it should look like. Since I'm part of the Interiors department, I'll only speak from my perspective: this course of action has created a big-ass city where buildings are thrown in without actually considering the content of these buildings. While this problem is obvious now, I think it would be best avoided in the future by:
1) stating what a city should generally look like,
2) realising what the city should actually contain,
3) then (and only then) the exterior department should start work on the city.

I believe this to be an absolutely necessary step away from the present system (General Planning -> Exteriors -> Interiors -> Quests would be substituted by General Planning -> Planning of crucial Interiors + Quests -> Exteriors -> Production of Interiors + Quests). I am of the opinion that we should have a clearer vision of what one should be able to see, hear and do in a city before starting any actual work on that city. This could save us a lot of work in the future and prevent further conflicts.

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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:14 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Nemon
Developer Emeritus
18 Oct 2003

Location: Bergen

Jule wrote:
what struck me as weird was the fact that Almalexia, which is now a major obstacle that has to be conquered, was planed without a coherent vision as to what it should look like.


I did absolutely have a coherent vision as to how it should look like, and it seems people are very good at forgetting the revisions that took place during the construction of current day Almalexia. The general idea of having MH raised to emphasis the levitation border issue was generally agreed upon as a valid idea - and yes I kickstarted Alma by cutting a few corners. It would never happen otherwise. I'm fucking tired of having all the blame for the "problems" (I don't see the big issues really, but that is another story in another thread) put on me when, interior discussion wise, fuck all happened for ages. Had this been up to spec during the process, fruitful conversations could have been made - good decisions taken during a period of actual productivity.

As of now the main alma issue is the northern entrance part, which I admittedly don't even like now. The waterworks could have turned out nicely but I don't see a good solution to them now and they should be reworked. Lowering the MH hill would also make it easier to provide a workable entrance to the northern terraces part. Easy work although boring.

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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:39 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Jule
Reviewer
01 May 2007

Location: Wilderness

My intention wasn't to blame you, Nemon, but to point out how it should've been handled and how I believe things should be handled in the future.
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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:15 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Why
Lead Developer
04 Jul 2009

Location: Utrecht

Nemon, Almalexia's redesign has been TR's greatest accomplishment in years and you personally deserve most of the credit for it. Whatever issues remain with the city pale in comparison to your amazing work and we are incredibly thankful for your it. Don't take the criticism personally. And indeed, we've had numerous discussions about the layout of the city before, during and after the redesign process, many of which influenced the final layout, so while I believe that Nemon deserves credit and major props for the creative vision and implementation, he should not be blamed for any layout issues that might remain.

Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to make a proper assessment of what we still want to see changed in the city and to have an open mind while we do so. But, let's save that discussion for an actual section thread.

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Mwgek
Developer
11 Apr 2008



Quote:
(General Planning -> Exteriors -> Interiors -> Quests would be substituted by General Planning -> Planning of crucial Interiors + Quests -> Exteriors -> Production of Interiors + Quests)


General Planning -> Art assets/planning + Planning of crucial Interiors + Quests -> Exteriors -> Production of Interiors + Quests

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immortal_pigs
Developer
15 May 2008

Location: Utrecht

I tried my hand at mocking up a master plan document for Andothren. I know it's not perfect, just trying something out. Obviously, everything in the document is just a suggestion and not a set in stone(falls) rule. I was mostly trying too look at what questions might need to be addressed when designing the look and feel of a city.


AndothrenMasterPlan.pdf
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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:34 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
arvisrend
Lead Developer
04 Oct 2010

Location: substitutional world

Ohkay, some very good points in there. I'd cut down on the Balmora analogies a bit because let's not make this too much of a mirror image, but hopefully with our NPCers they won't shine through too obviously in the final game.

You might have noticed that there are some plantations (including Othras) in the flatlands near Andothren, bordering Roth Roryn. They could be a quest hub and also feature some noticeable presence of guards to protect Andothren from critters from the Armun Ashlands and bandits from the Roth Roryn.

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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:57 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I think it would be best to avoid human and Elvish slaves here. Those always struck me as more of a Telvanni thing (the only human and elvish slaves in vanilla that I remember were at Tel Aruhn), and the Hlaalu probably wouldn't want to offend Imperial merchants by keeping human slaves.

Cammona Tong people/smugglers hanging out at the Dwemer ruin? Good idea?

Good stuff here, IP. I'll try my hand at making plans like these for Almas Thirr and Othrensis. Maybe Roa Dyr too, while I'm at it. Even though I technically completed NPC work for two of those cities already, I'm not completely satisfied with the way they are, and will open them up for review and discussion once the new sections are implemented.

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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:08 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Gnomey
Lead Developer
19 May 2006

Location: In your garden.

Yeti wrote:
(the only human and elvish slaves in vanilla that I remember were at Tel Aruhn)


There was an Altmer slave in Suran, but the Nordic slaves also struck me as a little off. They should probably be rare, if present at all. (Maybe captured outlaws and pirates operating in Uld Vraech and the Velothi Mountains would be sold to Andothren as slaves?)

Yeti wrote:
Cammona Tong people/smugglers hanging out at the Dwemer ruin? Good idea?


I'm not sure why the Cammona Tong would operate out of Dwemer ruins when they generally function just fine in Hlaalu cities.

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Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:52 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
wollibeebee
Developer
29 Apr 2010



A bit nitpicky, actually it's very nitpicky, but can we please call enviromental assets "environmental assets" instead of tile sets? In 2D games tilesets do included rocks and trees (Pokemon), but in 3D games tileable assets are only for things that tile together (most interiors, imperial forts, etc.) Trees and rocks do not tile together, they're not part of a tiling system.

The rest of the document is fine, but that part kept me up all night.
Post Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:54 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



Good to see your plan immpigs. Gonna save discussing it though for when we actually have a space for the sections implemented so we can talk about it in a way that is more structured.
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Post Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:00 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Haplo
Lead Developer
30 Aug 2003

Location: Celibacy

Mwgek wrote:
General Planning -> Art assets/planning + Planning of crucial Interiors + Quests -> Exteriors -> Production of Interiors + Quests


I think art asset planning should go after interior planning (which I think should be after quest planning, frankly) because we don't know what all we will need in terms of assets until we have all the world spaces planned, which includes interiors. It doesn't make sense to do art asset planning and then do interior planning only to find out you can't implement various plans/desires because there aren't art assets for it.

wollibeebee wrote:
A bit nitpicky, actually it's very nitpicky, but can we please call enviromental assets "environmental assets" instead of tile sets?


I've never called trees or rocks part of a tileset before and I don't know of anywhere it's been called that in TR. Tilesets very clearly mean architectural pieces in Morrowind.

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Post Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:11 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Sload
Developer Emeritus
06 Feb 2005



How about

Planning all the things, together -> Making assets -> Making exteriors -> Making Interiors -> Making NPCs -> Making Quests

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Post Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:16 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Mwgek
Developer
11 Apr 2008



Sload wrote:
How about

Planning all the things, together -> Making assets -> Making exteriors -> Making Interiors -> Making NPCs -> Making Quests


That's about it. As long as we don't start exteriorizing when a region is not fully conceptualized and all "new" TR art assets are double checked.

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Post Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:26 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Sload wrote:
Master Plan 1: The Foundation

§2 - Themes of Morrowind
This outlines the general characteristics and themes that are being presented through the game of Morrowind including the Tamriel Rebuilt mod.

====

Master Plan 2: The Aspects of Morrowind

This, divided broadly into physiological and anthropological and probably subdivided further for readability, describes in turn the characteristics of each region and faction as they need to be laid out at this level. These concepts are built off of the foundation of the first section of the master plan.


These parts of the Master Plan need to be thought out and completed. This is really high priority, and we shouldn't really be discussing section-specific things like regions and towns before we finish getting this stuff down and having useful guidleines to work with.

I am proposing we have a Skype meeting very soon on this.

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Post Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:22 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

I'm down for having a Skype meeting on this soon. It's a lofty topic to discuss, and a lot of Morrowind's themes (such as widespread xenophobia and colonialism) are probably second-nature to a lot of us. I agree, however, that codifying them is of vital importance.
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Post Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:41 am Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

So can we set a date, and I can start working on an agenda?
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"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
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Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:53 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Yeti
Lead Developer
15 Feb 2009

Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes

Sure. This weekend is fine with me. Anytime will work, really. At least that's my schedule.
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Post Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:25 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
Swiftoak
Developer Emeritus
02 Feb 2005

Location: Kah-nah-duh

Alright so it looks like the next skype meeting should solely regard The Themes of Morrowind

Details being worked out.

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Post Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:43 pm Send private message             Reply with quote                   up  
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