I'm Concerned

Negrodomous · Post by **Negrodomous** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:36 pm

Stalker wrote:Let's do it Stumpy-style...
And once again Rian you have proved that you're the biggest prick ever.

stumpy must have been in a good mood

but seriously... stalker's right...

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:46 pm

Let's try to keep the discussion in this thread mature, people...

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:50 pm

Do we honestly need to go through all this once again? I mean really, these kinds of posts pop up every couple of months talking about how things were in "the good old days" and how much it sucks now and how crappy the core is. Everyone gets all worked up, and we only end up learning two things each time, and it happens to be the same two things.

1. Ender likes to write too damn much in his posts. He apparently thinks since he doesn't post much anymore he has to write alot when he does. All though he does manage to be right most of the time.

2. Nothing is going to change because of this thread, maybe it will for a week or two but not permanately.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:10 pm

Actually I agree with Noir now. A day or two before I was about to drop TR. It was boring, I hated my claim, I hated core, I hated everybody and everything here. Than I found something I'm interested in. Hello ppl. You're so nice and core is so productive. No, really. Find something interesting. And I think that these kind of threads help a lot. How ? Look at my example. This thread pushed me to finally dropping my claim and starting to work on something more fun.

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:25 pm

Heh, well this thread is well worth it if it kept Stalker at the project

.

Also, we have decided some new things based on what people were saying in this thread which I think will be worth it as well. We'll be creating a 'New Members Forum' (soon...) because of what Ender said and the model reviewers forum has been opened (was already planned but because of this opened immediately). That's only a few things we've decided.

Although I agree with you Nazz, that mostly these kind of threads have little result in the long run, I think it's better if people talk about their concerns here than say nothing at all or just leave the project.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:45 am

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with yaou, Nazz, at least on point number two. I think it ias really helpful to get our frustrations out in the open sometimes, as long as it stays civil. Even if it only does help for a week or two, its better than nothing, and even if we have to complain to each other some more a few months down the road, we're still going to be happier until then, and happier after then, than if we just said nothing and statyed frustrated.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:13 am

It may seem repetitive to some of us who have been here for a long time now, Nazz, but for most of those who complained today, it was new, and urgent, and needed to be done.

Better have frustrations vented and have some improvements - small as they may be - gained from the threads that come from that frustration than have discussing that suppressed and drive dedicated and skilled memberys who are frustrated with how things are away.

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:41 pm

the fact that the core resposibility thread hasn't beenupdated in some time is a problem.

and tell me this. (I'd rather core members don't answere this question I want to know if the regular members now this.)

Whis is in charge of, Tranprotation roughtes, Guilds and Factions, Npc's. just to name a few.

also were would you go to find out what A building is is it a house, A store or what since the master lists haven't been updated since before I left the core?

(I hope I haven't offened anyopne that is not what I'm trying to do so If I did I'm sorry.)

Mr. Alligator · Post by **Mr. Alligator** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:11 pm

Bah, poppy cosh. Party down with your bad self! I don't get much involved with the core. Right now everyone is complaining, "I like it in the olden days." Well, why don't you take the first step and try it? We make the place boring, we can make it exciting. So, let's make that first step now.

The_Writing_Wraith · Post by **The_Writing_Wraith** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:47 am

With all due respect to those who've start these kinds of threads, please can we perhaps not do this anymore? It is the same thing over and over, one of the more outspoken non-Core members starts one of these things, vents their frustrations at existant or percieved problems with the Core/TR/New Members/etc. and the thread explodes into what can only be called an angsty mess. The end result usually seems to be only increased hostility on both sides.

If you start to feel that you need to post one of these threads or feel the need to attack/defend the subject of these threads, I'd suggest you finish whatever you are currently doing for the program if it is vital, temporarily abandon it if it isn't, and take a couple of weeks off from TR. Both sides are taking this way to seriously, it is after all only a mod for a game.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:08 am

Hostility? I considered this thread quite civil. It was seemingfly nescessary, helped TR keep a couple of engaged members ... if that was what was nescesasary, I see no trouble in going through such a mini-cartharsis.

Katoth · Post by **Katoth** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:22 am

Only a mod eh?
I agree with you Hermit
Its important to get your frustrations out, while being civil about it, as it was posted earlier...yet I agree with you that sometimes its good just to take a break for a week or two.
In my opinion good came out of this thread. There is now "The New Members Forum", I myself have decided to come back to the project, Stalker hasn't left, issues were adressed that needed to be.

Thats just my opinion of course.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:30 am

... and vernon and stalker are now models reviewers. That's good, too.

Mr. Alligator · Post by **Mr. Alligator** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:37 am

I have been gone a long time haven't I? So much has happened.

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:32 am

One good point in this discussion was the idea about taking care of new members better. Personally, I know this works very well. And actually, I've already started out on this in a minor scale by offering to tutor unexperienced modders if they want to join the map 4 detailing team. The only ones who've actually made use of it is Kodel and Shogun, but they're full fledged exteriormakers now and help me out when fixing map 4.

If we want more quality modders, this is the one way to go I believe.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:38 am

Yeah.

Maybe, if we made an effort, all newbies who want to contribute could get a "TR friend", an experienced member who shows them the ins and outs of the project.

Of course, we'd need experienced members to step forward and help new people. And not freak out when they ask the things all new people ask, not because they're stupid or slow or otherwise below any seasoned member, but simply because they're new here and, like a foreign city, TR is alien and scary to them.

What do you think, guys?

The_Writing_Wraith · Post by **The_Writing_Wraith** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:12 am

hermit wrote:Hostility? I considered this thread quite civil. It was seemingfly nescessary, helped TR keep a couple of engaged members ... if that was what was nescesasary, I see no trouble in going through such a mini-cartharsis.

I hadn't read the entirety of this thread when I posted this, and I've been getting sick of these things for awhile. Every time I come back here it seems like there's one of these threads ready to greet me, so I guess I was a bit... annoyed to find another one. Sorry if I seemed a bit snappy.

presh · Post by **presh** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:21 am

I'm keen to help out new members. I think it is the right way to go. And any who join and are advanced with the TESCS already can say so, and they won't need the guidance.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:32 am

Arcadea, I mean you no offence when I say these things. I know you were once an important member and I am sure you did some great things for the project, so you deserve a little respect for that.

However, I really hope you can stop putting this project down. Two things to remember:

A poor workman blames his tools;

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

I believe that the more you say about this project having intrinsic problems, the more your opinion becomes that of a minority.

While you have raised important issues, why don't you do something about it? If the master list needs updating, why don't you do it? You know a lot about the project and so would be able to do this with relative ease. The project has obviously changed since you were a major contributor, but it is not going to go back on itself because of your defeatist commentary.

If you want to change something as major as what you describe, these posts you make will have little difference. Stop being a nay-sayer and jump back onboard with the rest of us!

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:27 pm

Vernon I take no offence to your words. The thing is I'm trying to get back by organising the Modder Intials and Guilds and factions but the core won't reply or even tell me what needs to be changed or redone or even if I can continue. I'm in limbo right now and realy realy want to help. I release I have hurt the core and mu friends and I want to repent but it doesn't look like I will be given that chance.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:18 am

Veet is technically in charge of guilds and factions, but Majra's been doing most of the work. I'm sure that he'd appreciate the help if you offered it to him.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:47 am

I hadn't read the entirety of this thread when I posted this, and I've been getting sick of these things for awhile. Every time I come back here it seems like there's one of these threads ready to greet me, so I guess I was a bit... annoyed to find another one. Sorry if I seemed a bit snappy.

No offense taken.

I know how an older member can be irritated by repetitive threads. But as I explained, I underastand these as part of a cyclical process (which Ender explained muchz better than I ever could have), and thus, a phenomenon that, like mondays, hangovers and wet snow rainfall, is beyond my control and thus, has to be accepted as a part of life.