Daedra Hold the Answer?

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:07 pm

Okay, I have a few questions, and I couldn't figure out which forum to post in since this contains a little bit of everything.

I'll ask the second question first, as this is in chronological order:
2) Gods in the Elder Scrolls universe are created by people right? If so, how? Any details?

3) Some gods in some of the Tamrielic relegions are not really real, is this correct?

That's all I'll ask before I ask my first question.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:11 pm

If I remember my lore correctly...
2: At some point I remember hearing that the dwemer tried to make a god. (I don't remember if they succeeded) (I think this might have something to do with my answer to three)

3:Correct. The Tribunal Temple gods are really just mortals being sustained by the heart of Lorkhan. (The thingy you slice in the end game)

As for the Daedra I think they are the real deal.

EDIT: I have no idea about the Aedra or Tiber Septim

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:11 pm

The NAMES are created by people, each race has it's own set of names. The ENTITIES are all the same, though. The Aedra all chipped in part of themselves to create Nirn, the Grey Maybe.

The only 'god' who is, in fact, not a god...is Tiber Septim.

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:15 pm

2) Thanks.

3) I meant, they don't really exist at all, just completely made up.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:32 pm

2) This requires a simple story:

The Aedra created the world in the Dawn Era. These are the gods most worship. They can be killed and represent stasis. Lorkhan was killed, and with his heart the Dwemer tried to build the Amoncula, a new god (I believe that's its name.) I believe that Tiber Septim recieved the body for this creation when he got Morrowind with the Armistice. He then used the Mantella (some say Jagar Tharn's sole, some say an Ancient Nordic king) instead of the Heart of Lorkhan to power it. This was the Anumidium with which he conquered Tamriel. I believe that someone tried to rebuilt it in Daggerfall. Dagoth Ur tries to use the Heart to build another god but you defeat him in Morrowind.

So yes and no. They can use something powerful, like an Aedra's Heart, to create something very godly that can be considered a god.

3)No. All gods are real, I believe. Tiber Septim did ascend to godhood, which we know because the player can meet him in an Imperial Cult quest.

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:37 pm

Sload Lord wrote:3)No. All gods are real, I believe. Tiber Septim did ascend to godhood, which we know because the player can meet him in an Imperial Cult quest.

Okay, then this eliminates my first question. Are you serious? You can meet Tiber Septim?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:44 pm

I don't remember the criteria but if you meet it (if there is any) an imperial named Wulf (is that right) will be in ghostgate and he will give you a lucky coin that gives you a luck increasing spell.

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:49 pm

What's that got to do with Tiber Septim?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:55 pm

if you tell some imperial temple quest giver then they will say that the person was probably an incarnation of Tiber Septim. (note: I am only posting what I remember from religeously reading they players guide.)

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:01 pm

Ah, I see. Another question, this one having more to do with in-game play and possibly quests.

The attitude of the Daedra of the Aedra, what is it? The same question for the Tribunal.
I'm sure Azura and maybe the other good Daedra are neutral to the Aedra, but what about the rest?

How did Tiber Septim die?

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 10:06 pm

Most TES gods are 'real'. nearly every set of gods are the same as the aedra and daedra but with different names. There was an imperial monotheistic religion that's nearly dead at the time of the TES games, not sure about that one.

The dwemer tried to make themselves gods, but they unmade themselves instead.

Mr. Sorry of Balmora · Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:37 pm

Eraser wrote:
The dwemer tried to make themselves gods, but they unmade themselves instead.

i thought it was taught that the dwermer were trying to make themselfs gods and the adrea(the origional gods?) got mad and destroyed the dwermer race entirely.

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:43 pm

There are several theories on it. They probably tried to ascend to a higher form in some way, as it is also said they retired behind math and theory and thereby abandonned their physical form. Another theory said they were destroyed for trying to do this.

But it is a certainty they tried to create a god (Akulakhan), using the heart of Lorkhan as power source. But the term 'god' in the TES universe is not what we would consider a 'god'. In our world, the existance of gods is based on believe and speculation. In the TES world they are true entities, acknowledged by everyone. But most people prefer a certain god over the others.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:37 pm

So is Dagoth Ur stuck in Akulakhan's Chamber? And what prevents him from leaving the Ghostfenced in area? Any character with a potion can hop over it, so how is it going to stop some powerful semi-god?

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:54 pm

Because it's magicaly made to keep him in. Though if Neravar hadnt shown up, he probably would have escaped soon.

Razorwing · Post by **Razorwing** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:47 am

Sload Lord wrote:2) This requires a simple story:

The Aedra created the world in the Dawn Era. These are the gods most worship. They can be killed and represent stasis. Lorkhan was killed, and with his heart the Dwemer tried to build the Amoncula, a new god (I believe that's its name.) I believe that Tiber Septim recieved the body for this creation when he got Morrowind with the Armistice. He then used the Mantella (some say Jagar Tharn's sole, some say an Ancient Nordic king) instead of the Heart of Lorkhan to power it. This was the Anumidium with which he conquered Tamriel. I believe that someone tried to rebuilt it in Daggerfall. Dagoth Ur tries to use the Heart to build another god but you defeat him in Morrowind.

So yes and no. They can use something powerful, like an Aedra's Heart, to create something very godly that can be considered a god.

3)No. All gods are real, I believe. Tiber Septim did ascend to godhood, which we know because the player can meet him in an Imperial Cult quest.

This is what I think.

I think the name of the 300 feet tall dwemer 'robot' was Numidium. By constructing it, the atheist dwemer tried to create a God. For this provocation against the true gods (the Daedra lords), Azura annihilated the dwemer.

Tiber Septim came into possession of the Numidium, and with it, he conquered the whole continent which signaled the dawn of the third era. I don't know what happened to it after that.

As you say, I think Dagoth Ur tried to create his own version of the Numidium.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:43 am

I was under the impression that the soul was that of either Tiber Septim, or Zurin Arctus.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:42 am

Tiber Septim used the Numidium, he can not be the Mantella (his power source).

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:59 am

Anumidium is the god the dwemer tried to make with Lohrkan's heart as power source. Dagoth Ur later tries to complete it and calls it Akhulakan.

The Numidium is a giant robot that Tiber Septim used to conquer Tamriel. It's power source is the Mantella, the heart of the King of Worms, later called the God of Worms. He was once a ancient Nordic king.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:38 pm

From TIL

Dear Qwerty,

Numidium was Tiber Septim's secret weapon in his bid for supreme power: a thousand foot tall automaton, a golem or an atronach of sorts powered by a gem called the Mantella. The Mantella was infused with the life force of Tiber Septim's Imperial Battlemage, and with it, Septim crushed all who stood in his way. After the complete and total defeat of all his opponents, Septim began using Numidium to crush the neutral royal families of Tamriel so that he could enthrone only persons he knew to be loyal. His Imperial Battlemage was furious at this use of his creation, and fought to reclaim the Mantella. In the ensuing battle, both the created and the creator were vanquished: the heart they shared blown out of this reality into the netherworld they call Aetherius. Numidium's body was scattered throughout Tamriel and the Imperial Battlemage, without his life force went into a semi-slumber in a subterranean vault. In the centuries that followed, the Emperor's elite soldiers, for generation after generation, collected the pieces of the Numidium and became known as the Blades. Tiber Septim's Imperial Battle Mage became known as the Underking, and sent his forces out to find the Mantella.

Be warned, therefore. Those who search for the Totem of Tiber Septim are searching for the mechanism the first Emperor of Tamriel used to control Numidium. Should Numidium return, he or she who holds the Totem will control Tamriel's fate.

A Friend

I seem to recall from somewhere that it was uncertain whose soul was actually used, but don't remember where.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:20 am

I am sorry, it is indeed the Underking's heart, not the heart of the King of Worms. But the Underking was once a Nordic king.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:27 am

The "Real" gods
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Daedra Princes

Sanguine - Little is mentioned. One would assume craftsmenship, since he forged 27 tokens for Mephla to giver her followers (these are the "Sanguine Items" in Morrowind). Also, a god of trickery.

Boethiah - Dark warrior; Heralded by the Prophet Veloth, Boethiah is the original god-ancestor of the Dark Elves. Through his illuminations, the eventual 'Chimer', or Changed Folk, renounced all ties to the Aldmer and founded a new nation based on Daedric principles. All manner of Dark Elven cultural 'advances' are attributed to Boethiah, from philosophy to magic to 'responsible' architecture. Ancient Velothi allegories are uniformly heroic successes of Boethiah over enemies of every type, foundation stories of Chimeri struggle. Boethiah is also known as the Anticipation of Almalexia.

Molag Bal - Schemer Prince, Daedric Lord of Rape, father of abomination, namely Vampires. Daedric power of much importance in Morrowind. There, he is always the archenemy of Boethiah, the Prince of Plots. He is the main source of the obstacles to the Dunmer (and preceding Chimer) people. In the legends, Molag Bal always tries to upset the bloodlines of Houses or otherwise ruin Dunmeri 'purity'. A race of supermonsters, said to live in Molag Amur, are the result of his seduction of Vivec during the previous era.

Sheogorath - The Mad One, Daedric Lord of Comedy and Insanity. The fearful obeisance of Sheogorath is widespread, and is found in most Tamrielic quarters. Contemporary sources indicate that his roots are in Aldmeri creation stories; therein, he is 'born' when Lorkhan's divine spark is removed. One crucial myth calls him the 'Sithis-shaped hole' of the world.

Azura - Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, Queen of the night sky; more specifically; Azura was the god-ancestor that taught the Chimer the mysteries needed to be different than the Altmer. Some of her more conventional teachings are sometimes attributed to Boethiah. In the stories, Azura is often more a communal cosmic force for the race as a whole than an ancestor or a god. Also known as the Anticipation of Sotha Sil. In Elsweyr, Azura is nearly a wholly separate entity, yet she is still tied into the origins of Khajiiti out of Altmeri stock.

Mephala - Mephala is the Spinner, or the Spider God. In Morrowind, he/she was the ancestor that taught the Chimer the skills they would need to evade their enemies or to kill them with secret murder. Enemies were numerous in those days since the Chimer were a small faction. He/she, along with Boethiah, organized the clan systems that eventually became the basis for the Great Houses. He/she founded the Morag Tong. Also called the Anticipation of Vivec.

Clavicus Vil - little is known. He once made a mask (the Mask of Clavicus Vil) for an ugly woman to help her look beautiful. Assumably a god of vanity.

Vaernima - Evil (torture), little else is known, know major refrances.

Molacath - Malacath is the reanimated dung that was Trinimac. A somewhat weak but vengeful Daedra, the Dark Elves say he is also Malak, the god-king of the orcs. He always tests the Dunmer for physical weakness.

Hoermius Mora - Daedra of knowledge, learning, gums & varnishes, little else is known, know major refrances.

Namira, little else is known, know major refrances.

Juggalag, little else is known, know major refrances.

Nocturnal - Night mistress, Unfathomable, little else is known, know major refrances.

Mehrunes Dagon - Evil (natural disasters); Popular Daedric power. He is associated with natural dangers like fire, earthquakes, and floods. In some cultures, though, Dagon is merely a god of bloodshed and betrayal. He is an especially important deity in Morrowind, where he represents its near-inhospitable terrain.

Peryite - Evil (pestilence): Little is mentioned of him, since his last apperance was Arena. He is usually in form a dragon, and slave to the four "Corners" of the "House of Troubles" (See Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath, Molag Bal, Malcath (Malak)).

Hircine - Little is mentioned: Primary refrance is Blood moon. He is the god of the hunt and the father of werewolves and lycanthropy (the disease of werebeasts or the mental conditions of animal-likeness). He once awarded his flesh as a token to his acolyte who made it into armor, ie. the Cuirass of the Savior's Hide.

The Altmer/Bosmair gods (Including AEDRA):

Auri-El
(King of the Aldmer) The Elven Akatosh is Auri-El. Auri-El is the soul of Anui-El, who, in turn, is the soul of Anu the Everything. He is the chief of most Aldmeri pantheons. Most Altmeri and Bosmeri claim direct descent from Auri-El. In his only known moment of weakness, he agreed to take his part in the creation of the mortal plane, that act which forever sundered the Elves from the spirit worlds of eternity. To make up for it, Auri-El led the original Aldmer against the armies of Lorkhan in mythic times, vanquishing that tyrant and establishing the first kingdoms of the Altmer, Altmora and Old Ehlnofey. He then ascended to heaven in full observance of his followers so that they might learn the steps needed to escape the mortal plane.

Trinimac Strong god of the early Aldmer, in some place more popular than Auri-El. He was a warrior spirit of the original Elven tribes that led armies against the Men. Boethiah is said to have assumed his shape (in some stories, he even eats Trinimac) so that he could convince a throng of Aldmer to listen to him, which led to their eventual Chimeri conversion. He vanishes from the mythic stage after this, to return as the dread Malacath (Altmeri propaganda portrays this as the dangers of Dunmeri influence).

Magnus
(Magus) The god of sorcery, Magnus withdrew from the creation of the world at the last second, though it cost him dearly. What is left of him on the world is felt and controlled by mortals as magic. One story says that, while the idea was thought up by Lorkhan, it was Magnus who created the schematics and diagrams needed to construct the mortal plane. He is sometimes represented by an astrolabe, a telescope, or, more commonly, a staff. Cyrodilic legends say he can inhabit the bodies of powerful magicians and lend them his power. Associated with Zurin Arctus, the Underking.

Syrabane
(Warlock's God) An Aldmeri god-ancestor of magic, Syrabane aided Bendu Olo in the Fall of the Sload. Through judicious use of his magical ring, Syrabane saved many from the scourge of the Thrassian Plague. He is also called the Apprentices' God, for he is a favorite of the younger members of the Mages Guild.

Y'ffre
(God of the Forest) Most important deity of the Bosmeri pantheon. While Auri-El Time Dragon might be the king of the gods, the Bosmer revere Y'ffre as the spirit of 'the now'. According to the Wood Elves, after the creation of the mortal plane everything was in chaos. The first mortals were turning into plants and animals and back again. Then Y'ffre transformed himself into the first of the Ehlnofey, or 'Earth Bones'. After these laws of nature were established, mortals had a semblance of safety in the new world, because they could finally understand it. Y'ffre is sometimes called the Storyteller, for the lessons he taught the first Bosmer. Some Bosmer still possess the knowledge of the chaos times, which they can use to great effect (the Wild Hunt).

Xarxes
Xarxes is the god of ancestry and secret knowledge. He began as a scribe to Auri-El, and has kept track of all Aldmeri accomplishments, large and small, since the beginning of time. He created his wife, Oghma, from his favorite moments in history.

Mara
(Goddess of Love) Nearly universal goddess. Origins started in mythic times as a fertility goddess. In Skyrim, Mara is a handmaiden of Kyne. In the Empire, she is Mother-Goddess. She is sometimes associated with Nir of the 'Anuad', the female principle of the cosmos that gave birth to creation. Depending on the religion, she is either married to Akatosh or Lorkhan, or the concubine of both.

Stendarr
(God of Mercy) God of the Eight Divines, Stendarr has evolved from his Nordic origins into a deity of compassion or, sometimes, righteous rule. He is said to have accompanied Tiber Septim in his later years. In early Altmeri legends, Stendarr is the apologist of Men.

Lorkhan
(The Missing God) This Creator-Trickster-Tester deity is in every Tamrielic mythic tradition. His most popular name is the Aldmeri 'Lorkhan', or Doom Drum. He convinced or contrived the Original Spirits to bring about the creation of the mortal plane, upsetting the status quo-- much like his father Padomay had introduced instability into the universe in the Beginning Place. After the world is materialized, Lorkhan is separated from his divine center, sometimes involuntarily, and wanders the creation of the et'Ada. He and his metaphysical placement in the 'scheme of things' is interpreted a variety of ways. In Morrowind, for example, he is a being related to the Psijiic Endeavor, a process by which mortals are charged with transcending the gods that created them. To the High Elves, he is the most unholy of all higher powers, as he forever broke their connection to the spirit plane. In the legends, he is almost always an enemy of the Aldmer and, therefore, a hero of early Mankind.
Phynaster Hero-god of the Summerset Isles, who taught the Altmer how to naturally live another hundred years by using a shorter walking stride.

Herma-Mora
(The Woodland Man) Ancient Atmoran demon who, at one time, nearly seduced the Nords into becoming Aldmer. Most Ysgramor myths are about escaping the wiles of old Herma-Mora. Also called the Demon of Knowledge, he is vaguely related to the cult origins of the Morag Tong ('Foresters Guild'), if only by association with his brother/sister, Mephala.

Jone
(Little Moon God) Aldmeri god of the Little Moon. Also called Secunda or Stendarr's Sorrow. In Khajiti religion, Jone is only one aspect of the Lunar Lattice, or ja-Kha'jay.
Jode

(Big Moon God) Aldmeri god of the Big Moon. Also called Masser or Mara's Tear. In Khajiti religion, Jode is only one aspect of the Lunar Lattice, or ja-Kha'jay

Gods of Men: Cyrodil

Akatosh
(Dragon God of Time) Akatosh is the chief deity of the Eight Divines (the prescribed religious cults of Cyrodiil and its provinces), and one of two deities found in every Tamrielic religion (the other is Lorkhan). He is generally considered to be the first of the Gods to form in the Beginning Place; after his establishment, other spirits found the process of being easier and the various pantheons of the world emerged. He is the ultimate God of the Cyrodilic Empire, where he embodies the qualities of endurance, invincibility, and everlasting legitimacy.

Dibella
(Goddess of Beauty) Popular god of the Eight Divines. In Cyrodiil, she has nearly a dozen different cults, some devoted to women, some to artists and aesthetics, and others to erotic instruction.

Arkay
(God of the Cycle of Life and Death) Member of the Eight Divines pantheon, and popular elsewhere as well. Arkay is often more important in those cultures where his father, Akatosh, is either less related to time or where his time aspects are difficult to comprehend by the layman. He is the god of burials and funeral rites, and is sometimes associated with the seasons. His priests are staunch opponents of necromancy and all forms of the undead. It is said that Arkay did not exist before the world was created by the gods under Lorkhan's supervision/urging/trickery. Therefore, he is sometimes called the Mortals' God.

Zenithar
(God of Work and Commerce, Trader God) Member of the Eight Divines, Zenithar is understandably associated with Z'en. In the Empire, however, he is a far more cultivated god of merchants and middle nobility. His worshippers say, despite his mysterious origins, Zenithar is the god 'that will always wins'.

Mara
(Goddess of Love) Nearly universal goddess. Origins started in mythic times as a fertility goddess. In Skyrim, Mara is a handmaiden of Kyne. In the Empire, she is Mother-Goddess. She is sometimes associated with Nir of the 'Anuad', the female principle of the cosmos that gave birth to creation. Depending on the religion, she is either married to Akatosh or Lorkhan, or the concubine of both.

Stendarr
(God of Mercy) God of the Eight Divines, Stendarr has evolved from his Nordic origins into a deity of compassion or, sometimes, righteous rule. He is said to have accompanied Tiber Septim in his later years. In early Altmeri legends, Stendarr is the apologist of Men.

Kynareth
(Goddess of Air) Kynareth is a member of the Eight Divines, the strongest of the Sky spirits. In some legends, she is the first to agree to Lorkhan's plan to invent the mortal plane, and provides the space for its creation in the void. She is also associated with rain, a phenomenon said not to occur before the removal of Lorkhan's divine spark.

Julianos
(God of Wisdom and Logic) Often associated with Jhunal, the Nordic father of language and mathematics, Julianos is the Cyrodilic god of literature, law, history, and contradiction. Monastic orders founded by Tiber Septim and dedicated to Julianos are the keepers of the Elder Scrolls.

Shezarr
(God of Man) Cyrodilic version of Lorkhan, whose importance suffers when Akatosh comes to the fore of Nibenay religion. Shezarr was the spirit behind all human undertaking, especially against Aldmeri aggression. He is sometimes associated with the founding of the first Cyrodilic battlemages. In the present age of racial tolerance, Shezarr is all but forgotten.

Talos
(Tiber Septim, the Dragonborn) Heir to the Seat of Sundered Kings, Talos is the most important hero-god of Mankind. He conquered all of Tamriel and ushered in the Third Era (and the Third Empire). Also called Ysmir, 'Dragon of the North'.

Morihaus
(First Breath of Man) Ancient cultural hero god of the Cyro-Nordics. Legend portrays him as the Taker of the Citadel, an act of mythic times that established Human control over the Nibenay Valley. He is often associated with the Nordic powers of thu'um, and therefore with Kynareth.

Reman
(The Cyrodiil) Culture god-hero of the Second Empire, Reman was the greatest hero of the Akaviri Trouble. Indeed, he convinced the invaders to help him build his own empire, and conquered all of Tamriel except for Morrowind. He instituted the rites of becoming Emperor, which included the creation of the Amulet of Kings, a soulgem of immense power. His Dynasty was ended by the Dunmeri Morag Tong at the end of the first era. Also called the Worldly God.

Gods of Men: The Nords:

Alduin
(World Eater) Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Eight Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, ravaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one. Nords therefore see the god of time as both creator and harbinger of the apocalypse. He is not the chief of the Nordic pantheon (in fact, that pantheon has no chief; see Shor, below) but its wellspring, albeit a grim and frightening one.
Dibella

(Goddess of Beauty) Popular god of the Eight Divines. In Cyrodiil, she has nearly a dozen different cults, some devoted to women, some to artists and aesthetics, and others to erotic instruction.

Orkey
(Old Knocker) A loan-god of the Nords, who seem to have taken up his worship during Aldmeri rule of Atmora. Nords believe they once lived as long as Elves until Orkey appeared; through heathen trickery, he fooled them into a bargain that 'bound them to the count of winters'. At one time, legends say, Nords only had a lifespan of six years due to Orkey's foul magic. Shor showed up, though, and, through unknown means, removed the curse, throwing most of it onto the nearby Orcs.
Tsun Extinct Nordic god of trials against adversity. Died defending Shor from foreign gods

Mara
(Goddess of Love) Nearly universal goddess. Origins started in mythic times as a fertility goddess. In Skyrim, Mara is a handmaiden of Kyne. In the Empire, she is Mother-Goddess. She is sometimes associated with Nir of the 'Anuad', the female principle of the cosmos that gave birth to creation. Depending on the religion, she is either married to Akatosh or Lorkhan, or the concubine of both.

Stuhn
(God of Ransom) Nordic precursor to Stendarr, brother of Tsun. Shield-thane of Shor, Stuhn was a warrior god that fought against the Aldmeri pantheon. He showed Men how to take, and the benefits of taking, prisoners of war

Kyne
(Kiss At the End) Nordic Goddess of the Storm. Widow of Shor and favored god of warriors. She is often called the Mother of Men. Her daughters taught the first Nords the use of the thu'um, or Storm Voice.

Jhunal
(Rune God) The Nordic god of hermetic orders. After falling out of favor with the rest of that pantheon, he became Julianos of the Eight Divines. He is absent in modern Skyrim mythology.

Shor
(God of the Underworld) Nordic version of Lorkhan, who takes sides with Men after the creation of the world. Foreign gods (i.e., Elven ones) conspire against him and bring about his defeat, dooming him to the underworld. Atmoran myths depict him as a bloodthirsty warrior king who leads the Nords to victory over their Aldmeri oppressors time and again. Before his doom, Shor was the chief of the gods. Sometimes also called Children's God (see Orkey, above).

Ysmir
(Dragon of the North) The Nordic aspect of Talos. He withstood the power of the Greybeards' voices long enough to hear their prophecy. Later, many Nords could not look on him without seeing a dragon.

Herma-Mora
(The Woodland Man) Ancient Atmoran demon who, at one time, nearly seduced the Nords into becoming Aldmer. Most Ysgramor myths are about escaping the wiles of old Herma-Mora. Also called the Demon of Knowledge, he is vaguely related to the cult origins of the Morag Tong ('Foresters Guild'), if only by association with his brother/sister, Mephala.

Mauloch
(Mountain Fart)

Orcish god of the Velothi Mountains, Mauloch troubled the heirs of King Harald for a long time. Fled east after his defeat at the Battle of Dragon Wall, ca. 1E660. His rage was said to fill the sky with his sulphurous hatred, later called the "Year of Winter in Summer".

Gods of Men: The Redguard:

Satakal
(The Worldskin) Yokudan god of everything. A fusion of the concepts of Anu and Padomay. Basically, Satakal is much like the Nordic Alduin, who destroys one world to begin the next. In Yokudan mythology, Satakal had done (and still does) this many times over, a cycle which prompted the birth of spirits that could survive the transition. These spirits ultimately become the Yokudan pantheon. Popular god of the Alik'r nomads.

Ruptga
(Tall Papa) Chief deity of the Yokudan pantheon. Ruptga, more commonly 'Tall Papa', was the first god to figure out how to survive the Hunger of Satakal. Following his lead, the other gods learned the 'Walkabout', or a process by which they can persist beyond one lifetime. Tall Papa set the stars in the sky to show lesser spirits how to do this, too. When there were too many spirits to keep track of, though, Ruptga created a helper out the dead skin of past worlds. This helper is Sep (see below), who later creates the world of mortals.

Tu'whacca
(Tricky God) Yokudan god of souls. Tu'whacca, before the creation of the world, was the god of Nobody Really Cares. When Tall Papa undertook the creation of the Walkabout, Tu'whacca found a purpose; he became the caretaker of the Far Shores, and continues to help Redguards find their way into the afterlife. His cult is sometimes associated with Arkay in the more cosmopolitan regions of Hammerfell.
Zeht

(God of Farms) Yokudan god of agriculture. Renounced his father after the world was created, which is why Tall Papa makes it so hard to grow food.

Morwha
(Teat God) Yokudan fertility goddess. Fundamental deity in the Yokudan pantheon, and the favorite of Tall Papa's wives. Still worshipped in various areas of Hammerfell, including Stros M'kai. Morwha is always portrayed as four-armed, so that she can 'grab more husbands'.

Tava
(Bird God) (Bird God) Yokudan spirit of the air. Tava is most famous for leading the Yokudans to the isle of Herne after the destruction of their homeland. She has since become assimilated into the mythology of Kynareth. She is still very popular in Hammerfell among sailors, and her shrines can be found in most port cities.

Malooc
(Horde King) An enemy god of the Ra Gada. Led the goblins against the Redguards during the first era. Fled east when the army of the HoonDing overtook his goblin hordes.

Diagna
(Orichalc God of the Sideways Blade) Hoary thuggish cult of the Redguards. Originated in Yokuda during the Twenty Seven Snake Folk Slaughter. Diagna was an avatar of the HoonDing (the Yokudan God of Make Way, see below) that achieved permanence. He was instrumental to the defeat of the Lefthanded Elves, as he brought orichalc weapons to the Yokudan people to win the fight. In Tamriel, he led a very tight knit group of followers against the Orcs of Orsinium during the height of their ancient power, but then faded into obscurity. He is now little more than a local power spirit of the Dragontail mountains.

Sep
(The Snake) Yokudan version of Lorkhan. Sep is born when Tall Papa creates someone to help him regulate the spirit trade. Sep, though, is driven crazy by the hunger of Satakal, and he convinces some of the gods to help him make an easier alternative to the Walkabout. This, of course, is the world as we know it, and the spirits who followed Sep become trapped here, to live out their lives as mortals. Sep is punished by Tall Papa for his transgressions, but his hunger lives on as a void in the stars, a 'non-space' that tries to upset mortal entry into the Far Shores.

HoonDing
(The Make Way God) Yokudan spirit of 'perseverance over infidels'. The HoonDing has historically materialized whenever the Redguards need to 'make way' for their people. In Tamrielic history this has only happened three times-twice in the first era during the Ra Gada invasion, once during the Tiber War. In this last incarnation, the HoonDing was said to have been either a sword or a crown, or both.

Leki
(Saint of the Spirit Sword) Goddess daughter of Tall Papa, Leki is the goddess of aberrant swordsmanship. The Na-Totambu of Yokuda warred to a standstill during the mythic era to decide who would lead the charge against the Lefthanded Elves. Their swordmasters, though, were so skilled in the Best Known Cuts as to be matched evenly. Leki introduced the Ephemeral Feint; afterwards, a victor emerged and the war with the Aldmer began.

Onsi
(Boneshaver) Notable warrior god of the Yokudan Ra Gada, Onsi taught Mankind how to pull their knives into swords.

Gods of Men: The Breton:

*See Nordic, Cyrodilic, and Altmeri gods*

Gods of the Khajits:

*See Daedra and Aedra*

Gods of the Dunmer (Chimer):

Almalexia
(Mother Morrowind) Most traces of Akatosh disappeared from ancient Chimer legends during their so-called 'exodus', primarily due to that god's association and esteem with the Altmeri. However, most aspects of Akatosh which seem so important to the mortal races, namely immortality, historicity, and genealogy, have conveniently resurfaced in Almalexia, the most popular of Morrowind's divine Tribunal.

Vivec
(Master of Morrowind) Warrior-poet god of the Dunmer. Vivec is the invisible keeper of the holy land, ever vigilant against the dark gods of the Volcano. He/she has saved the Dunmeri people from certain death on numerous occasions, most notably when he/she taught them how to breathe water (for a span) so that he/she could flood Morrowind and kill the Akaviri invaders, ca. 2E572.

Sotha Sil
(Mystery of Morrowind) God of the Dunmer, Sotha Sil is the least known of the divine Tribunal. He is said to be reshaping the world from his hidden, clockwork city.

Nerevar
(Godkiller) The Chimeri king of Resdayn, the Golden Age of old Veloth. Slain during the Lorkhan War, Nerevar was the Herald of the Triune Way, and is the foremost of the saints of Dunmeri faith. He is said to have killed Dumac, the Last Dwarven King, and feasted on his heart.

*See Daedra (Mehrunes Dagon, Sheogorath, Malcath, Molag Bal, Azura, Boethiah, Mephla) and Aedra (Lorkhan)*

Saints of the Dunmer (The following is excerpt from the lives of the saints:
If you would be wise, model your lives on the lives of the saints.

If you would learn valor, follow St. Nerevar the Captain, patron of Warriors and Statesmen. Lord Nerevar helped to unite the barbarian Dunmer tribes into a great nation, culminating in his martyrdom when leading the Dunmer to victory against the evil Dwemer and the traitorous House Dagoth in the Battle of Red Mountain.

If you would learn daring, follow Saint Veloth the Pilgrim, Patron of Outcasts and Spiritual Seekers. Saint Veloth, prophet and mystic, led the Dunmer out of the decadent home country of the Summerset Isles and into the promised land of Morrowind. Saint Veloth also taught the difference between the Good and Bad Daedra, and won the aid of the Good Daedra for his people while teaching how to carefully negotiate with the Bad Daedra.

If you would learn generosity, follow Saint Rilms the Barefooted, Patron of Pilgrims and Beggars. Saint Rilms gave away her shoes, then dressed and appeared as a beggar to better acquaint herself with the poor.

If you would learn self-respect and respect for others, follow Saint Aralor the Penitent, Patron of Tanners and Miners. This foul criminal repented his sins and traveled a circuit of the great pilgrimages on his knees.

If you would learn mercy and its fruits, follow Saint Seryn the Merciful, Patron of Brewers, Bakers, Distillers. This pure virgin of modest aspect could heal all diseases at the price of taking the disease upon herself. Tough-minded and fearless, she took on the burdens of others, and bore those burdens to an honored old age.

If you would learn fierce justice, follow Saint Felms the Bold, Patron of Butchers and Fishmongers. This brave warlord slew the Nord invaders and drove them from our lands. He could neither read nor write, receiving inspiration directly from the lips of Almsivi.

If you would learn pride of race and tribe, follow Saint Roris the Martyr, Patron of Furnishers and Caravaners. Captured by Argonians just before the Arnesian War, Roris proudly refused to renounce the Tribunal faith, and withstood the cruel tortures of Argonian sorcerers. Vengeance and justice for the martyred Saint Roris was the rallying cry of the Arnesian War.

If you would learn the rule of law and justice, follow Saint Olms the Just, Patron of Chandlers and Clerks. Founder of the Ordinators, Saint Olms conceived and articulated the fundamental principles of testing, ordeal, and repentance.

If you would learn benevolence, follow Saint Delyn the Wise, Patron of Potters and Glassmakers. Saint Delyn was head of House Indoril, a skilled lawyer, and author of many learned treatises on Tribunal law and custom.

If you would learn the love of peace, follow Saint Meris the Peacemaker, Patron of Farmers and Laborers. As a little girl, Saint Meris showed healing gifts, and trained as a Healer. She ended a long and bloody House War, intervening on the battlefield in her white robe to heal warriors and spellcrafters without regard to faction. The troops of all House adopted white robes as her standard, and refused to shed the blood of their brethren.

If you would learn reverence, follow Saint Llothis the Pious, Patron of Tailors and Dyers. Contemporary and companion of the Tribunals, and the best-loved Alma Rula of the Tribunal Temple, he formulated the central rituals and principles of the New Temple Faith. Saint Llothis is the symbolic mortal bridge between the gods and the faithful, and the archetypal priest.

Other Real Gods:

King of Worms
Underking
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any questions?[/u][/b]

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:10 am

Indoril wrote:Other Real Gods:

King of Worms
Underking

King of Worms wasn't a real god, until he became the God of Worms. So you should change that in God of Worms.

The Underking might be very powerfull and everything, but he isn't a god.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:49 am

Another questionable one: Tiber Septim. Although, apparently his breath was unholy...

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:46 pm

Sorry. God of worms, then. I was basing this all off of the Imperial Library.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:47 pm

Actually, the Underking is, by definition, and immortal demi-god, much like Vivec and the Tribunal.

CommonsNat · Post by **CommonsNat** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:46 pm

Wow, I leave for a few days and you people post like crazy in my thread. I didn't get this much attention when I was here.

Anyways, I'll have to look over this later. Thx guys.

P.S. Feel free to continue discussing. This is very interesting.

ChickenHawk · Post by **ChickenHawk** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

The tribunal ain't real gods, neither nerevar.
they're just worshipped as gods by dunmer.

presh · Post by **presh** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:22 am

I didn't know that Nerevar feasted on Dumac's heart. Where did this come from?

ChickenHawk · Post by **ChickenHawk** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:44 am

and heres something for you

The King of Worms is the leader of the Necromancers, a sworn enemy of Mages Guild and the followers of Arkay; Necromancers are even considered as enemy by the Underking His original name is Mannimarco. Rumors and legends say that he is a lich of tremendous power. From Scourg Barrow in Dragontail Mountain, he cleverly plays all the political games and powers. His influences are even reaching Summerset Isle, the home island of the Altmer. The Sload worships him as well.

In the end of Second Era, he gives Stros M'Kai area to the Sload Necromancer N'Gasta to gather souls, which in turn to be given to Daedric Prince Clavicus Vile.

In 3E414, he helps Hlaalu Morgiah to arrange a way for her to become a queen of Firsthold. Firsthold is a kingdom in Summerset Isle, ruled by King Reman. Morgiah promises the King of Worms her "first". It may be assumedly her first child.

The King of Worms is one of the wielders of the Numidium. He is one of the seven retrievers of the Totem of Tiber Septim, a tool for controlling the Dwemer construct. Originally the Totem of Tiber Septim is only one, but a strange time-warping effect known as Warp in the West makes all seven parties of Iliac Bay retrieve the totem.

In fact he seeks only Mantella, a gem of power that fueled the Numidium. With this gem he seeks to become a god. The use of the gem lets him to leave his mortal frame and joins the ranks of the Gods of Oblivion. Another Daedric Prince? Some speculations arise. From Nu-Hatta of the Sphinxmoth Inquiry Tree, we learn that "The Jills of Aka-tosh have mended this numidition. Mannimarco remains as he was: the high priest of maggots." However from Arkay The Enemy, he wrote, "Once I was a lowly man such as yourselves. By my will I entered the ranks of the gods." The truth? Only time will tell.

King Of Worms is reported once owned some powerful artifacts. One of the artifacts is the legendary Necromancer's Amulet and the other is Bloodworm Helm. These two artifacts are prized among the Necromancers and Mages alike.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:18 pm

Please tell us where you found that.

Don't get me wrong, it is the truth, I am just curious where you get that from.

Starcrunch · Post by **Starcrunch** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:03 pm

Not her child! It has never been stated what the first was, but it was specifcially stated not to be her frist born.

The N'Gasta part is from TES: Redgaurd dialogue

The story involving the mantella comes from Daggerfall...in which he ascends to godhood.

The Necromancer's amulet is not associated with him (or anyone else) to my knowledge (it is not even considered an artifact, just a cool ammy worn by Trebonis).

-Starcrunch

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:57 am

Starcrunch wrote:Not her child! It has never been stated what the first was, but it was specifcially stated not to be her frist born.

The N'Gasta part is from TES: Redgaurd dialogue

The story involving the mantella comes from Daggerfall...in which he ascends to godhood.

The Necromancer's amulet is not associated with him (or anyone else) to my knowledge (it is not even considered an artifact, just a cool ammy worn by Trebonis).

-Starcrunch

Starcrunch, I knew where it all came from, but it looks like it has all been compiled into this text, but not by him I think.

And I hate to disapoint you about the Necrmancer's Amulet, but:

!SPOILER WARNING!

-Necromancer's Amulet; The legendary Necromancer's Amulet, the last surviving relic of the mad sorceror Mannimarco, grants any spellcaster who wears it the ability to regenerate from injury, and absorb magicka. The bearer also becomes wise beyond his years. This artifact is popular amongst mages. It is the one flaw of the Amulet that it is unstable in this world forever doomed to fade in and out of existence, reappearing at locations distant from that of its disappearance. A noble of High Rock told the Eternal Champion of the location of the map to the amulet's location. The map was found in High Rock while the amulet itself was uncovered somewhere in Summurset Isle. The Daggerfall Hero owned this amulet as well after he finished a quest for one of the Knights Guild of Iliac Bay. Years later, the amulet came to the possession of Trebonius Artorius, the Archmage of Vvardenfell branch of Mages Guild. He was slain by the Nerevarine in a duel, and the amulet is finally owned by the Nerevarine.

From the List of Artifacts.

Starcrunch · Post by **Starcrunch** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:30 pm

If it is the last surviving artifact then what is the Bloodworm Helm?

-Starcrunch

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:34 pm

The Bloodworm Helm is not a relic from Mannimarco. He had it in his possesion, but he didn't made it. But he did made the Necromancer's Amulet.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:02 am

In some references, Arkay was also a mortal who ascended to Godhood.

The Tribunal does appear to be true gods. They frequently deal and bargain with Daedra and other powerful entities. Vivec also mentions that the people's faith in the Tribunal sustains them, weakened, after the Heart is destroyed.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:59 am

Arkay was not a man which ascended to godhood IIRC (a popular story in the ES worlds says that he did though). All that is said about his origins is that he came to exist after Nirn was created.

There are a couple of minor gods mentioned in books and so forth: Sai (God of Luck. He takes the form of a wolf, hence why killing a wolf in Skyrim causes bad luck), and Springseed (not sure who this is, but is probably associated with Mara in some way).