Necromic Armor

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:04 pm

The Dead no longer go to Necrom, and I don't think they're exclusive. This city is the Dunmeri Mecca or Jerusalem, it needs something special.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:12 pm

Why don't the dead go there anymore? Is there some lore you can point me towards?
I guess the place already has something special in the huge pyramid in the central square; it;s kind of like the equivalent of that big black building in Mecca (or am I getting confused with someplace else...?). It's still gonna need guards though, and I just think it'll add a little more ambience to the place to have them uniformed differently from the rank and file ordinators.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:20 pm

The dead power the Ghostgate instead.

Also, High Ordinators ARE dressed differently. And if they only guard the plaza, you'll have High Ordinators there and Ordinators in the "city" part.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:34 pm

Yeah I know, the High Ordinator armour would be good for Necrom, but I am pretty certain that High Ordinators are exclusive to Mournhold. I can't check though because someone else has my copy of the game, so I'll take your word for it. In either case, it's easy enough to change the armour's name. I still think the death masks would be pretty nice though, but that's just me.

PS. The Ghostgate, of course! how could I forget

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:39 pm

"death guard" would not be a good name to use. It screams "I want t0 make this $0und c00l!

No matter what is done with the armor, the npcs have to be very specific to necrom. We can't have them using mournhold or vivec dialogue.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:59 pm

lol ok, just a suggestion. They are guarding the dead, though

What about something simple like "White Ordinator"

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:20 pm

I already said that there is nothing saying they are exclusive to Mournhold, do you not believe me?

High Ordinators with new named armor and new NPC IDs. Simple, no?

Actually, they don't need new IDs, because the Mournhold High Ordinators have their dialogue topics under Cell: Mournhold, Class: Guard, Faction: Temple.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:10 am

not simply dialogue but their voice as well. we can't have anyone going "mournhold, city of light, city of magic" in necrom.

yes they would need new ids because they'd be using renamed armor. but everything else can stay the same.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:07 am

Can't the armour look slightly different? Like some sort of insignia on their chest? Or maybe a robe?

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:12 am

Please read my last post again. Carefully.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:19 am

Eraser wants armour identical to the Her Hand's Armour except that it's renamed.

I dont agree to that.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:28 am

No. Don't agree. And I'm not along in this disagreement.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:52 am

correction: thats what sload wants. I prefer a brand new armor(preferably a retexture of the normal ordinator armor)

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:39 am

Do you mean not alone, Stalker? Otherwise your meaning is lost to me.

Fine, let's do some new armor. Can we atleast follow my original concept?

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:40 am

And nobody's satisfied with just keeping the original ordinators, I take it? Necrom is a very holy city, yes. So they probably have their own sect of priests. But Ordinators? I'm skeptical. Lexie had her guard because she was not only massively paranoid, but had a fairly martial position. She wouldn't have any less than a full retinue of elite warriors. Necrom, though, seems to be far less warlike, and more religious. It's not built to impress everyone with it's splendor; it's built as tribute to the Temple (or at least, that's its current use.) If you ask me, I think this explains pretty clearly that we don't need brand new ordinators all over again, but rather provide variation in the Temple. We already have three kinds of ordinators (typical, elite, and high.) Why make four?

viKING · Post by **viKING** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:55 am

actually, you do have a point there.
And if we are going to use some original armour, I suggest we use the typical one.

But isn't ordinators going to be a playable guild? if so, they might need several armours for several ranks, doesn't they?

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:59 am

Heh. Now you're talking to the right person

.

We finally decided that no, armor will stay constant. Playing the ordinators isn't about getting uber items, but more of a lore experience. You may get awarded a few items from past ordinators, etc., but no, we needn't have new armor.

That's the current standpoint of the Ordinators faction. If someone has issues with it, attack Turelio

.

viKING · Post by **viKING** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:05 am

I haven't read the whole ordinator thread, but I trust you on this.

If the ordinators(the guild) shall stick to one armour the whole way, it would be a bit unbalancing with to many diffrent ordinator armour sets.

It might would have been viser wit just adding some kind of robe or priest hood(not ordinators, nor guards).

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:15 pm

"death guard" would not be a good name to use. It screams "I want t0 make this $0und c00l!

I agree, which is one of the major reasons I want to avoid giving Necrom anything higher than an Elite Ordinator Watch Garrison. Its alot like the 100 ft wall around every town problem. You know what I mean, those games you play where everything is so fantaztic, it is no longer immersive, impossible to believe and get into a bit.

Ordinators in their own right, are a very special and elitist group. Especially Elite Ordinators, typically you only see them out on raids and such, even then they are the elite of the elitists. I think making a group of them the guards for the "Holy" places of Necrom would give it a nice balance.

Another major issue is yes, I do believe that High Ordinators are only for Mournhold, I got that impression from Tribunal, plus I remember looking into the issue a while back and coming to that conclusion, long before this topic was even imagined.

Since the crash, I don't know what of the old threads are available, but I compiled nearly all lore pertaining to the Ordinators and their Orders, including that on High Ordinators and Her Hand's.

Not only will Ordinators lose some of what makes them special, the High Ordinators will too, and even Mournhold itself. Mournhold is special for alot of reasons, one it is the the site of Ayem's Temple, along with this comes many unique things only to her, including the High Ordinators. Seeing Ordinators somewhere else, would detract from Mournholds own image, where as once you could only find them in Mournhold, now you will see them somewhere else.

It is just as easy to say that there is no lore disputing the fact that there is something else, if it is not mentioned. Sometimes, it requires we make educated guesses and go on gut feelings. Based on all the Lore I have gathered, and I have gathered ALOT on it, before I had I do not think anyone even KNEW the extent of the Lore on the Ordinators, my educated suggestion and gut feeling is High Ordinators are ONLY for Mournhold, to protect the Holy City of one of the Tribunal Temple's Gods.

There are other issues, example Necrom isn't holy in the Tribunal sense, it has much more ancient connections to it, some that would seem almost opposing the Tribunal. Also, I always got the feeling the High Ordinators were more connected to Ayem, probably recieving orders directly from her, rather than the Alma Rula like other Ordinators, this is enforced by their Armor being called "Her Hand's" Armor.

Just a few of the things I can pull off the top of my head, I am still scowering my computer for all of my word docs on the Ordinators.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:54 pm

Maybe the armor itself isnt directly linked to the rank but more to the City.

Think about it. The cicty of Vivec is very yellow-toned city. The Ordinators blend in nicely with the yellow stone. Mournhold on the other hand has very greenish stone and the main focus is the Silver temple. The guard armor is thus silvery-green.

We could make white armor for Necrom, call it Necromic Armor or something and just have the guards as Normal Ordinators. The only difference would be their armor.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:18 pm

the mournhold armor isn't really greenish, but on everything else. I agree with jale.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:28 pm

But before somebody will rush making a new armor - stop. As I already said I will do my best to get new meshes for pauldrons at least.
2Sload
That means me and some other people on IRC.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:31 pm

Still, I think that these should jsut be called 'Ordinators' rather than another faction. It just keeps it easier. It might be a good idea to call the new white armor 'Indoril' Again so that people arent confused by thinking its another faction...and if the parts are fundamentally the same it would be no problem as far as I can see. Only thing might be calling the pauldrons something different because they have a different model.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:37 pm

The whole set will need to be retextured to white-gold colours.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:05 pm

show me concept art for the new pauldrons and they are yours.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:27 pm

You're gonna make them ? Good. Look at official ordinator concept art. The same pauldron. And the same robe if you can pull that out.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:00 pm

Maybe the armor itself isnt directly linked to the rank but more to the City.

Think about it. The cicty of Vivec is very yellow-toned city. The Ordinators blend in nicely with the yellow stone. Mournhold on the other hand has very greenish stone and the main focus is the Silver temple. The guard armor is thus silvery-green.

We could make white armor for Necrom, call it Necromic Armor or something and just have the guards as Normal Ordinators. The only difference would be their armor.

No, the Ordinators of Vivec are the same as all others, they are not anything special, since Vivec doesn't have any guards of his own. Those Ordinators are the same, for all of Morrowind.

However, I suppose that in the interest of a comprimise, something different could still be done for Necrom. I still don't think we need a whole new set of armor, however perhaps just retexture the blue on the armor to white and make a new white robe(similarly fashioned like the Temple Blue/Gold Robes), and call the Ordinators Elite Ordinators. They then would serve more as a type of, Ordinator Honor Guard, that I would be wiling to settle with.

No High Ordinators, no Necromic Guard or completely new armor. But that I would see as possible.

Edit:

You're gonna make them ? Good. Look at official ordinator concept art. The same pauldron. And the same robe if you can pull that out.

Actually that I might work, we could say it is a past armor design, more for looks than anything else really. If it is done well that is.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:04 pm

The vast majority of Morrowind is built in the Velothi style which has that yellow stone, so the gold-plated Indoril would fit in with that. I can even explain the colours.

Indoril (vannila) - Gold Plated Bonemold-like armor
Indoril (High) - Silver/other metals plated on Bonemold-like armor
Indoril (Necrom) - Thin layer of laquered chitin with gold ornamentation over bonemold-like stuff

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:16 pm

cha-ching! thanks turelio that gave me a good idea for a name for them: Necrom Honor guard

Specifies they're for necrom, and are apart from the regular ordinator and high ordinator.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:42 pm

Yes I don't believe they should be considered an more "elite" section of the Ordinators however, just serving a specialized purpose. There would only be a handful of them and most of the city could be guarded by regular Ordinators.

Jale, the "vannila" Ordinator armor as you put it, is Chitin. I have no idea of High Ordinator, but it is my impression it was not made of an organic material.

The Honor Guard would be fitting in a style of Ordinator Armor that appeared older, in a way honoring the many Ordinators that have fallen in the name of the Tribunal. I dont think they should be any tougher than an Elite Ordinator, and probably comparable to their status. They are also obviously, under the Order of the Watch, atleast that makes the most sense to me.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:36 pm

Given Necrom's extreme religious importance (even if ancestor worship is not still widely practiced, I assume that at least one of the saints is buried there) I would think that the Order of the Watch would ceremonially decorate their Necrom Ordinators. No city belongs to the Temple more than Necrom, and this reason alone justifies a uniqueness to the city's Watch. I really like the idea of having ordinators with a pale off-white or bone-like armor, since it fits the theme perfectly. The idea that robe-ordinators be used is also very appealing, especially in a robe/armor combination that is totally unique to necrom guards. Either way, I feel that it only makes sense for Necrom's Ordinators to be the most lavishly decorated, regardless of whether or not they are as powerful as the High Ordinators.

On the subject of power, no Ordinator should come close to Her Hands. There are only 5 and they are Almalexia's personal elite bodyguards, 'nuff said. Also, the High Ordinators should be at least as powerful as the Necrom Watch, since their are far fewer of them (only in the middle of Mournhold) and because getting any more powerful than that for a typical guard starts to get ridiculous.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:51 pm

L_G you are very right, and I would say that they probably shouldn't even be as powerful as High Ordinators. The Honor Guard should be more for the look rather than actually that much more "elite" than a normal Ordinator. Any extra training they recieve is probably geared alot more towards ceremony and ritual than combat(think of most military honor guards, they aren't really combatants).

I think we should keep the gold color for the armor and of course the face should not be touched, they are an important part of its symbolism. The Robes and underclothing could be white, I really like the idea of making it after the Offical Concept Art for the Ordinators, I always regarded it as being an earlier form of the Ordinators. Here it is for those who don't know:

[img]http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/characters/mw_02CB.jpg[/img]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:55 pm

Stalker: I love you. You are making exactly what I originally wanted before people started cutting it open and making it starch white.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:58 pm

Sload Lord, my impression of what you wanted was something more like a Super Ordinator or something, and then later just High Ordinators themselves. Or did you want something else?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:02 pm

I wanted something on par with the High Ordinators for strength before I realized how strong the High Ordinators were. I didn't pay much attention to them once I had their armor (tgm).

For armor concept I wanted something whitegold, like the armor on the right. I then wanted a white skirt or robe.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:09 pm

Yes, the High Ordinators are quite strong, even by Ordinator standards, which are already very strong.

I like the concept art alot for it, maybe a bit more on the formal side(this one looks a bit more ragtag with all his stuff, probably more like what they REALLY would have looked like back in the day). The Armor itself I think should be gold, but I could see some kinda combination, like whitegold with gold trimmings or something. The Armor could be a metal, instead of the usual Chitin, but it should resemble Chitin.

Well, for the most part, I'd need to see atleast a basic model of it before I could really start making suggestions on it, just as long as it doesn't stray to far from the basic idea of the Ordinators, and the main goal isn't making them look "cooler" or "eliter" or whatever, but give it an ancient kind of older look, as far as design.

DarkEclipse · Post by **DarkEclipse** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:35 am

I love that piece of concept art, it's My favorite...

I wish we could make the model look exactly like the Concept art, but that would take soooo long to make.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:51 am

Actually I was trying to put this in your heads one thread back now. Necrom Ordinators should look like official concept ones. Why ? They look calmier and much cooler.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:22 am

Eraser so are you going to make the pauldrons or not ? Please respond ASAP.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:36 pm

yeah, sure.

Shall I do them in both gold/white and the normal bone/gold colors?