Alternative argonian sub-species...

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 10:22 am

His pose says something like: "Stand away from me motherfuckers or I'll drink this bottle of booze. And you don't want to see drunk Argorian, do you ?" :p Anyway maybe you should try colouring Beth's concept art and see what we can come up with ?

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:18 am

lol, actually I was going for the neo-classical pose of "Argonian on the edge of a moshpit".

Linkie?

Graff.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:35 am

Because TIL is slow and I have a higher res version I'll just upload it here.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:40 am

Okay, I'll give it a shot.

Graff.

On a seperate note, I really wish we could include the Telvanni robe (bottom right) in with Map 1.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:37 pm

I think it would kick unholy quantities of ass if the Tolmei had chameleon-like characteristics, specifically in the eyes.

The problem I see with this is that they would not look as intelligent, perhaps snake's eyes would be better?

I think that warning patterns would be a brilliant idea, though, red, orange and yellow skin or stripes?

I'm really tempted to draw a better version with an even more amusing pose

Graff.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:46 pm

I think you've been doing great so far, save for one thing.

What exactly is that on the top of his head? It looks as though you're attempting to give him a cobra-frill of some sort. Keep in mind while doing this that very, very few species of snakes or lizards have neck frills even closely resembling those genetic traits, and so putting them on something that is supposedly just as much snake as lizard is quite a stretch.

If that wasn't your intent at all and I'm just not seeing your picture right, then I apologize for the confusion.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:53 pm

You were correct in your assumption, the problem being that I haven't seen a cobra in some years, thus it is not drawn very well. Would you suggest I simply do away with such an idea and go for a "plain" skull?

Also, I'm having trouble deciding what sort of eyes to use, I decided against chameleon-like (dexter's suggestion), considering that such an appearance doesn't make it look very intelligent (after all, Tolmei should arguably be the most intelligent of all argonians), while "slit eyes" might be a little too vicious. What would you suggest, Stumpy?

Graff.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:18 pm

Asylum found something Tanza-Raish - http://mmadnd.chat.ru/MM00188.htm

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:28 pm

The problem I see with this is that they would not look as intelligent, perhaps snake's eyes would be better?

Don't worry, you'll see what I mean soon. I've got that sketching fever...

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:32 pm

Does this mean the Tolmei is out of my hands?

I'm toying with the idea of a bony frill, similar to that of a chameleon.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:39 pm

Until we are working on Black Marsh, the Argonian sub-species are not out of anyone's hands.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:03 pm

Mkay, here he is:
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v310/Dexter_Kong/Chameleon.jpg[/img]
When I was thinking how the Tolmei would behave, I thought of Raoul Duke in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Any of you uncultured swine who haven't seen it, get your asses to Blockbuster. The rest of you, read on.
When he was comfortable in his surroundings, he would make strange fluid movements with his body, almost like he was drawing pictures in the sky. When something took him by surprise (and most everything did), he would make quick, jerking movements, usually darting behind something to hide himself.
The Chameleon look accentuates that. The large eyes are paranoid, but at the same time have a strange intelligence about them. When he is idle, his movements could be very slow and fluid, with an artistic quality to them. When he is in combat or running, they could be very quick and jerky, to make him seem like the paranoid witch doctor he is supposed to represent.
Oh, don't ask me what that thing in his hand is. I don't know.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:11 pm

Wow, that's a very good sketch. I can understand your reasoning behind the design, too. Mind if I take this and colour it?

Graff.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:13 pm

I'd always thought that the Tolmei would have the least amount of cranial decorations. They are the least brute-like of the argonians, and I figured that their appearance should suggest such.

I'd think that a bony frill would be too much of a Sutadee type decoration, and a row of spines too Tanza-Ra. It's really still up in the air, but when I think about them, I generally imagine a pretty basic skull, which the Tolmei take upon themselves to decorate with piercings and decorative headdresses such.

EDIT: I don't know exactly how close Dexter and the phychic network pals are, but he keeps suprising me by knowing nearly exactly where I want this to go. The only real complaint about the image I could bring up is the gullet. The rest of the body is so apt and small, so why does he have such an enormous swelling below his jaw? I can understand that you wanted to keep the chameleon-ish appearance to some anatomical accuracy, but it that one part just looks out of place on such an otherwise small-porportioned character.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:19 pm

It's not supposed to be a gullet, just a skin flap. I didn't accentuate it enough though, so it flattens out and looks like a gullet. Here is the reference photo I worked off of:
[img]http://www.livingrainforest.org/lib/img/cms/montane-chameleon.jpg[/img]
You can see here that it's just a spiney flap of skin.
Oh, and for future reference, unless I say otherwise, anyone should feel free to color my images, since I suck at Photoshop.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:22 pm

Ooh okay. I was worried there for a moment, heh.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:26 pm

Oh, and for future reference, unless I say otherwise, anyone should feel free to color my images, since I suck at Photoshop.

Whereas I can work better when I don't have to use my own inferior sketches, consider it photoshopped.

Graff.

viKING · Post by **viKING** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:26 pm

Teddy V in colours:

[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/joakiman/consept%20art/colloredTeddyV.jpg[/img]

sorry dex, If I were not allowed to colour this one.

It looked much better when it were not in jpg...

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:56 am

Got inspired and drew an Argonian warrior dude, Tanza-Ra, i think they're called.

[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/Zalzidrax/Tanza_Ra.jpg[/img]

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:31 pm

Glad to see someone's using my Aztec sword/club/axe idea.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:03 pm

Im of the opinion that the style of Argonian Silver (which i might refer to as Argentite just for brevity) sticking out of resin-hardened wood or vines should be the norm for Argonians.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:25 pm

I reckon the tanza-ra's head would look something like a Daedroth's

nakai · Post by **nakai** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:25 pm

tanza ra looks like a warhammer lizzardmen rip off with that sword

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:58 pm

actually, the redgaurd comic book has a perfect, albeit simple, sketch of a sutadee.
[img]http://elderscrolls.com/images/comic_book/15B.jpg[/img]

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:01 pm

How do you know it's a Sutadee?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:08 pm

Because that picture is in the argon jungle, which is right next door to the region the sutadee inhabit - also, it looks more like stumpy's description of a sutadee than the "modern" argonian.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:19 pm

Well, the trees in the comic look similar to, if not exactly like the one's we're using for the Argon jungle, the Argonian looks like our concept of the Sutadee racial variant which we invented, and it just so happens that the Argon Jungle is near Tear, has slavers travelling down the river, has cliffs overlooking parts of it, and is near the Sutadee habitat. Wish I could say we planned things to work out nicely like that and fit in, but, well I guess you take breaks where you can get them.

Thirsk · Post by **Thirsk** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:09 am

well i have worked on a pencil sketch of an argonian sub-spiece, just dont know if it would fit (dont know if its not looking as an argonian) just the old Liazardmen-freak inside me:

Thirsk · Post by **Thirsk** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:10 am

sorry it is the wrong way, gonna have it right in a few days, promise!

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:06 pm

[url=http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5962/argonianunderart0jb.jpg][img]http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5962/argonianunderart0jb.th.jpg[/img][/url]

In the future, please use [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10509]third party hosting.[/url] Kay thanks?

Thirsk · Post by **Thirsk** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:31 pm

i would certanly do

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:42 am

Wasn't sure if someone had already tried doing a "young" argonian sub-species (pre-hist).

[url=http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unclassed013yt.jpg][img]http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/3526/unclassed013yt.th.jpg[/img][/url]

My basic idea was that the argonians have prospered predominantly due to the Hist, and that they have come to depend on the transformation for survival. They have evolved to prepare for the change, but this has come at a price, physical deformity. Bones and muscles are under- and over-developed, and they have the appearance of being without flesh.

Graff.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:12 pm

I don't think this is lore accurate, the Hist ceated the Argonians in the first place. They were one of the two basic races that inhabited Nirn.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:16 pm

Im of the opinion that the Hist didn't 'create' the Argonians in the traditional sense e.g. taking a lump of clay etc. My opinion is that they manipulated an existing species through their resins. The Hist are sort of the givers of life to the civilisation and the conciousness of the Argonians rather than the flesh.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:29 pm

Some people think that Hist are Aedra and I support this idea. They created Argorians like all other races where created.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:11 pm

The Morrowindian form of Argonian is the default, IIRC.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:18 pm

@Abramul:

By Stumpy

There are six different types of Argonians.

Young argonians (without gifts from the Hist)
Morrowind argonians (average citizens, most westernized, merchants and laborers)
Sutadee argonians (taller, stronger, faster argonians)
Tolmei argonians (spellcasting, smarter argonians)
Tanza-ra (stupidly powerful walking tank crocidile argonians)
Temple argonians (sipritual leaders, closest to the hist)

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:29 pm

That information is actually outdated; a few lore arguments with Stalker and Eyeball over msn/email brought us to the conclusion that argonains without the Hist's blessings were indeed the type you see commonly outside of Black Marsh - for specifically the reason that they are either isolated from the Hist in the first place and incapable of reaching it, or that they had no defining characteristics that the Hist saw as imperative to the betterment of the argonian civilization.

Sorry about that, I'll go fix it.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:33 pm

Ah, shit.

Okay.

Graff.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:51 pm

ok if someone already wrote this somewhere i apologize for being repetetive;

but what species of Argonian where the pre-morrowind ones? they didn't have the bent hind legs. i noticed the human'ish race of the kahjiit where in the concept art gallery so i just wondered if the same sort existed in black marsh or if it has been decided that it was just a pre-design to the current argonians?