Idea: Imperial Knights

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:08 am

I don't know if this has been discussed already, but something that Bethesda missed out on adding to the game was the Imperial Knights faction. You can see where the faction ranks and everything were layed out in the TESCS, but no one is in the faction. I guess the dev team ran out of time on this or something, and either way, the Imperial Knights would be a good idea.

The idea behind the knights is that you have more responsibility and respect than you would in the legion. I guess they would be considered the elite soldiers, and assigned to guard nobles and important caravans and like. The Imperial Legion is just an assortment of footsoldiers that get thrown into battle to die, and the Fighters Guild might be a little bit more elite, but they're just a bunch of mercenaries that are generally loyal to the Empire. Bethesda probably meant to add the knights into the game, but as with the previous games, just ran out of time and decided to leave the foundation in the game.

Since that's out of the way, some quest ideas:
Lower ranked- Take part in a battle against some particularly dangerous smugglers/cultists. Follow orders and help your troop, rewards based on how many knights live.
Lower ranked- A noble has found an assassination plot, oversee the noble's party, and when the culprit shows themselves, kill them. Failure if anyone dies.
Medium- Guard a noble's caravan passing through some dangerous territory. [Caravan would probably just be a procession of people and maybe a guar or two] Complete with distractions and everything aimed at luring you off so the noble gets killed.
Medium- Lead a small group of Legion troops and stop a riot in a medium-sized city. Success when you kill the riot's leader. Rewards based on how many of your troops live.
High- Guard a controversial noble against a DB/MT assassination squad. Choose your side, the noble or the attackers, and defeat the leader of the enemy. [Note: The noble would have a previously-unknown personal guard you'd have to lead your knights against in the case you picked the attacker side] If you kill the noble, AND get some evidence to their corruption/conspiracy of some kind, then you get far more reputation than you would doing the quest normally.
High- You have to lead a small group [3-4] of highly trained knights in a covert attack against a large base of smugglers. Make your way through the main base, and you'll find yourself in a Daedric ruin where the leader and some personal men are hiding out. Tons of lovely Daedra.

There would also be some stuff once you became the leader of the Imperial Knights Morrowind district, a massive battle against a Dunmer uprising would be a sweet idea, but it would probably prove too laggy or something for most people. An idea though.

Anyways, that's my ideas for the faction. It really is something that's missing, since the Legion does treat you like dirt for the most part.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:10 am

I've been thinking about this one. Maybe the Imperial Knights would be better left for another province. I just say that because "knight" implies that the guy would be riding a horse, and there are no horses in Morrowind.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:14 am

I always figured the Knights were the Templar, which would make them a really hard to get into order. You'd probably need to be admitted by the Emperor.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:15 am

Yeah, the Blight is a bit of a bummer.

Still, Knights don't have to exclusively ride horses. The guar would probably serve as a suitable animal if a knight needed to ride above the battle. But for the most part, like in attacks against a cave or something, a mount would be useless anyways.

Morrowind is the most strife-ridden province in the Empire in the time frame. It would only make sense to include a good amount of elite knights for when the need arises.

Edit to Omicron: I wasn't really thinking of you can walk off of the prison ship and join the knights. What I *was* thinking of is a reputation requirement, or a referral from a high ranking knight, like in Sword of Perithia.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:17 am

Keep in mind though, the top five ranks of the Imperial Legion are, in order of lowest to highest:
Knight Errant
Knight Bachelor
Knight Protector
Knight of the Garland
Knight of the Imperial Dragon

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:19 am

I'm assuming that it was originally going to be a seperate faction, but for multiple gameplay reasons, they made it into the higher ranks of the Legion.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:23 am

Yes, but those are just titles. "Knight" in the Imperial Legion really just implies that you're a high ranking commander. Very few of the quests include knightly elements in them. Even the final two are just "fetch me these artifacts".

Knight strikes me as more of a chivalrious thing than being a footsoldier, albeit a high-ranked one.

Edit to Omicron again: If they just scrapped the entire faction, then why are pretty much all of the ranks and all of the rep modifiers still in the game? It leaves the feeling that something wasn't completed, as with the Sixth House.

Edit2: Actually, I guess the Sixth House was finished. Even it has no rank settings filled out.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:29 am

I think the lack of chivalry is part of how Morrowind works, and Knight is never more than a title.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:29 am

I always though chivalric orders were more of a High Rock thing. The imperial legion is the main military force for Cyrodiil.

But wasn't their some idea going around for an elite imperial guard? I don't rightly remember.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:37 am

Zalzidrax wrote:I always though chivalric orders were more of a High Rock thing. The imperial legion is the main military force for Cyrodiil.

But wasn't their some idea going around for an elite imperial guard? I don't rightly remember.

Yeah, but that was just basically the Blades reworked.
Anyways, I delved into the TESCS to take a better look at the faction ranks. All of the faction requirements are higher than the respective level in other factions. This shows that there's something more elite than just regular forces in here. Becoming a Paladin requires inhuman mastery of your skills, as would befit someone with more authority than even the Knight of the Imperial Dragon. [the final advancement requirements rarely matter anyways]

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:05 am

For me I think its just like the officer class. But those top 5 legion ranks...

Knight Errant means an adventurer who wanders around trying to prove himself. Hardly the leader of a legion...

A Knight Bachelor was the lowest rank of knight

Knight Protector could be like the assistant of a fully fledged knight.

A Knight of the Garland basically means a commended knight

Knight of the Imperial Dragon is essentially a fully fledged knight.

To me these last 5 ranks look like the selection process for choosing knights. First you are sent out to do something impressive and that shows your initiative. After that you get made a trainee knight and are given some tasks. Then you have to follow a real knight to see how the position works. If you are good then you are commended and then possibly selected for further promotion.

However, knight of the imperial dragon could be the umbrella for all the knights. I looked at the actual rank list and its pretty interesting....

1. Aspirant: Someone who looks for advancemant. Basically that would be going to someone and voicing your wish to be advanced in the faction, so joining it.

2. Squire: Like the protector rank but closer. Basically sucking up to a higher ranking knight.

3. Gallant: means you are unflinching in battle. Basically they are saying that you are worthy of further advancement and do well in combat.

4. Chevalier: Someone who is chivalrous. Basically you have proved that you are also compassionate and brave. In france its also like saying special forces for knights.

5. Keeper: means you are responsible for keeping something. This could be a keep, a group of soliders or a town. I would say a small town would be the best, you could defend it and see to certain matters of protection.

6. Knight Brother: This implies a brotherhood. I think this is the next stage of rank where you are no longer trying to prove you are fit for command and have been accepted. There would probably be some kind of ritual to get here.

7. Commander: pretty self explanitory. You are given your first command.

8. Marshall: this is usually the person in charge of parades etc. This could involve training some soldiers.

9. Seneschal: "An official in a medieval noble household in charge of domestic arrangements and the administration of servants"
I think that to keep this interesting this would be when you get a keep.

10. Paladin: If you have played RPGs this long and dont know what this is, get out. In this context we can say its just the highest rank of knight.

This actually leaves it nicely open for a further guild in the capital where you could rise to general.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:38 am

I can't see a knight getting very high in rank on Morrowind Province. What would such a high-ranking officer be doing in Morrowind? I can understand a player being given a tokenistic ranking at the top of the legion, though.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:49 am

Its an odd case. Bethsoft made the faction, made the ranks, made the way the other factions respond to the ranks but then did no more. Maybe they didnt have time to do it but they thought it was still a good idea and left it in.

Possible ranks for the next tier of Imperial people. This wouldnt be playable in MW but Cyrodiil would be great for this. I based it all on roman ranks. I have the player having a bit of the shock to the system...they have been the top dog in Morrowind or wherever they raised to Paladin rank, being put down to Policeman, could be a way of instilling a bit of humbleness and making sure the incoming officers know who is boss. The advancement is pretty rapid in terms of steps but you would have to do certain things. To get to certain ranks you would have to before what was called an equites meaning a middle-class person. In rome you would need 400000 secertes to be called an Equites or you could marry into it. To become a senator you would need one million secertes to remain a senator, but also you would need a really big favour from the emperor. Alternatively you could marry into it.

1. Urban Guard - Like a Policeman in the capital
2. Praetorian Guard - Like a higher policeman
3. Praefectus Urbi - Head of the Urban Guard
4. Praefectus Vigilum - Head of the Firefighters (break from the norm)
5. Praefectus Praetoria - Head of the Praetorians
6. Tribune - Military advisor to a Legate
7. Senator - Would have to marry into this or gain special favour. Hard rank to achieve
8. Legate - Commander, like Darius
9. Consul - Like the Prime Minister of the Senate
10. General - Commander of many legions, answers only to the emperor.

The_Writing_Wraith · Post by **The_Writing_Wraith** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:55 pm

I'd suggest using different ranks, especially as most of them have extremely specific connotations. I also think it makes the Imperials a bit to much like Rome.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:13 pm

We need to strike a balance between medieval and roman. That was pretty much the roman only one.

I have a good idea for the first two quests of the Imperial knights. To join the guild you get told that knights aspiring for advancement usually write letters to Knights of the Garland. You must find 3 rolls of Imperial Writing Paper and take them to a certain desk which has the script attatched to convert them to the letters to 3 knights. Then you hand them to a messenger in a hall who promptly disappears. 3 days later he re-appears with replies. You get 2 rejections and 1 acceptance. You go to that knight and are made an Aspirant.

Now an Aspirant just means you are hoping for advancement, its not really a rank at all. There are 2 aspirants in the room with the knight, and he gives you a quest to find him a horse. As we all know, horses dont do well in morrowind. They are a delecacy. If you ask around you find that there are indeed no horses. If you ask about that knight you are told he is greatly interested in arts and crafts. If you look in his private quarters you find some small carved statues of horses. You can either get a book of horse drawings or get a horse statue for a greater reward. On the return you find that one aspirant has brought him a horse steak, much to his disgust and the other has brought him a book of horse drawings. Both the player and the aspirant with the drawings become squires.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:20 pm

If you ask a knight ingame about his profession, he'll say something like 'In the West, knights are noble, and ride horses, but here in Morrowind, anyone with skill, armor, and a cause.'

Something like that. Anyway, that dialogue is given to all knights, Imperial or not, even though I highly doubt it would apply very well to the Imperial knights in Morrowind. They'd be rich and have horses outside of morrowind anyway.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:36 pm

The bit about the horse is more a way of the knight in question weeding out the less intelligent peoeple and finding the person most suitable to be his squire. He knows full well you wont come back with a stallion.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:03 am

Vernon wrote:I can't see a knight getting very high in rank on Morrowind Province. What would such a high-ranking officer be doing in Morrowind? I can understand a player being given a tokenistic ranking at the top of the legion, though.

Morrowind is full of dischord at the moment. The Empire's going to need some high ranking men dispatched to keep uprisings from getting out of hand.. you can't just put the shakiest area in the Empire in inadequate control.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:20 am

You can when you're legal right to control is very low. It's not even shakey, they just aren't in charge of it because of the Armistice.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:33 am

If we took the roman system and gave it different names that would largely fit the Empire, and if we did that then in Morrowind we would have a (using roman names) legate and six tribunes somewhere, probably in one group. The general wouldnt be there when there is no fighting. Wherever they are they would have a few praetorians who are just like Imperial soliders but beefed up and their armor is black.

Perhaps this would be a better chain of command for the 3rd (unplayable in MW) tier:

1. Capital Guard
2. Capital Honour Guard
3. Guard Officer
4. Municipal Chief
5. Honour Guard Officer
6. Adjutant
7. Member of the Camarilla
8. Provincial Commander
9. Viceroy
10. General

There is only a small shift in meanings here. A camarilla is a secret society of adivors to the emperor. I thought that would fit the Empire a bit better, and you could probably have a few more interesting ways of getting in.

The_Writing_Wraith · Post by **The_Writing_Wraith** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:06 pm

Don't use viceroy, or if you do, switch it around with general. A viceroy is after all second only to a monarch and is very nearly an equal to a monarch in power.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:07 pm

Well its a complicated thing. To be a general in Ancient Rome you would have had to have been a consul before. A consul is essentially a viceroy, so its more of a sideways movement than an actual promotion.

The_Writing_Wraith · Post by **The_Writing_Wraith** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:14 pm

But viceroy has no equivalent in the Roman Republic, Co-Emperor would be a more accurate equivalent than consul.

Maybe use Master of the Stables instead (or the latin equivalent which I don't remember right now), or Domestic of the Schools. Actually you might want to replace all of the upper ranks with the honorary titles of Imperial Rome, most people have never heard of these ranks and they never really had a concrete meaning.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:03 pm

If we just forget about the unplayable faction ranks for the time being and focus on the quests of the Imperial Knights...this is what I have planned.

Quest 1. Talk to Any Imperial Officer in Old Ebonheart and ask about Imperial Knights. If you are a Knight of the Imperial Dragon they will tell you that usually people write to the Knight Brothers of the province for advancement. Locate 3 pieces of Imperial Writing Paper and find a scribe. He will write the letters to the knights of OE, Darconis and Firewatch. Give these to a Messenger in Old Ebonheart. After 2 days the messenger will return and give you the replies. Two are a yes (OE and [Other Undecided]) and there is one rejection. The letters also outline the quest path. The one in OE says you wont see much action but he can find you tasks, and the one in [Undecided] says you will have more action and appears to be a very strict man. Talk to the knight you wish to join to be named an Aspirant

2A Hunt for a Horse
The Brother Knight of OE says that he has 3 aspirants who want to be his squire. He sets you a challenge to see who should be his Squire. He tells you to find him a horse. Asking anyone will tell you how they arent in Morrowind because the locals eat them. If you talk to them about the knight they will say he is a patron of the arts. If you look in his room you will find a number of horse statuettes (one model, just resize). In a general merchant nearby you can find more such statuettes, though quite well hidden. The PC must buy one. Return to the knight to find two more men with him, the other aspirants. They present him with a horse steak and a painting of a horse. He is repulsed by the steak and amused by the painting. Upon being presented with the statue he is greatly pleased and names you his squire.

3A Hunting Old Scratch
The Knight tells you how true knights must be brave. In the nearby forest there is a large nix hound called Old Scratch. You must kill him. After a short search you find the hound, and it is indeed larger and fairly strong. After killing it you are named Gallant.

4A Helping the Sick
The knight tells you how true knights are chivalrous. He tells you that the village of Dondril is in trouble. Many people have fallen ill. You go to the village and must either heal or give potions to the sick people. You can return for a reward now. If you talk to the priest he will tell you that the sickness started after some rough characters came into town, and that they may have tampered with the water. Locate the well/spring/river to find a dead guar polluting the water. Dispose of the corpse. You can now gain a better reward. If you scout around you can find the bandits and kill them. If you do this you get an even greater reward. Any completion of this task gets you the rank of Chevalier.

5A You Be the Judge
The Knight says that a true knight must know how to deal with people. He sends you out into OE to settle disputes. In a bar you find two men fighting. If you talk to them they turn on you. Knock them down (they are easy) to stop them. They are sent to jail. If you ask them why they were fighting they will say its over a woman. The woman in question will tell you that she loves one of the men but not the other. The one she loves can be released from jail. You can get a small reward for just the arrest and a larger reward for finding which one is in the wrong. You get no reward if you kill either of the men.
A merchant tells you he has been robbed. He tells you to look for a Khajiit wearing certain clothes. Find him and he will flee. You must punch him (he has very little fatigue) once to stop him and arrest him. If you talk to him he will tell you that he stole it because the merchant's cronies took it from him. Confront the merchant with this and he will either turn himself in to pay a fine (good disposition) or attack (poor disposition). Beat him down to arrest him and he will pay you the fine. You get a small reward for finding the theif, a greater reward for serving justice and no reward if anyone is killed.
A crazed man appears on the streets spouting nonsense. If you talk to him he attacks. If you beat him down you can arrest him. In jail he will still talk gibberish but will give you the impression that there is something wrong with his bed. If you go his bed (be it in a house or an inn) you will find a piece of paper with a curse written on it. You can then have the man released. If you take the paper to the scribe in the city he will tell you that its a curse by someone who follows Sheogorad. He will also tell you that he saw similar handwriting from a certain shopkeeper. If you confront the shopkeeper he will turn himself in. You get a small reward for arresting the man and a larger reward for serving justice. As always, death negates your reward.
Once you have solved the disputes, no matter which way (even killing) you are named a keeper.

Thats all im doing for now, once I have been told which other imperial city woud be good for the other squire path I will post that parrallel set of quests.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:59 pm

This sounds basically like a nice guild idea and I see plenty of people with enthusiasm to add some lore background and develop it to some reasonable end. I would not mind seeing some misplaced offshots of this guild in some more "imperialized" parts of Morrowind, perhaps Old Ebonheart or Blacklight. Most probably they would be desperate of stucking in such uncivilized barbaric country.
Definitely do not count with this guild for map 1, for there is just enough of guilds right now. Moreover before you develop this, other map quests might be ready for claiming so there is no need to worry. You have a green light from me

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:09 pm

That's some good news then.. I was pretty surprised to see this guild not getting a red flag. ;>_>

Anyways, I'd have some changes to becoming an Imperial Knight than what has been suggested.

1. I don't think you should have to be a Knight of the Imperial Dragon to qualify. I think 20 or 25 reputation or some referrals from some kind of high-stakes quests should be enough that you could send off for admission.
How many referrals you have and how high your reputation is should determine who accepts you and who refuses your request. Your ranking in the Imperial Legion should also be a modifier, so being the head of the Vvardenfell legions would weigh heavily in your favor. If everyone turns you down, you should be able to resend your letters in a month.

That being said, I like a three quest lines idea. The lower to mid level quests should be with your master, and then the higher levels will mingle with all of the knights. Derpending on who you choose, that should determine some of your quests, and possibly influence others.

The ratings signify how difficult it would be to get the privelege to do that quest line.

Easy. Old Ebonheart - Aristocratic Quests
Medium. Firewatch - Combat-oriented
Hard. [Somewhere, Darconis is too close to Firewatch though] - A mixing of the two, higher responsibility quests.

Just some thoughts, there are a lot more things that need to be done first, though.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:55 pm

Hard could be Everguard Pass or the fortress at 4-23.

Maybe we could make it so that as soon as you are a Knight Bachelor you qualify to go into the next stage.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:19 pm

I suggest you keep them to Old Ebonheart with quests in the surrounding area.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:29 am

Yeah, the three different branches would be a nice thing, but there are already too many quests that need to be done anyways.

It'd feel right for the thing to be centralized at OE, and putting a base at Darconis when one is at Firewatch would be odd. Maybe a western base or something, but I never really envisioned a massive branching thing.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:48 am

There is already a base at Darconis AFAIK...and besides this is just a provisional plan. Kingfish showed me this other fortress and I think that might be more interesting to do rather than Darconis.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:03 pm

West of Kragenmoore there is a fort, I don't know of any others though. Oh, and a lot of the passes are Imperial controlled.

I don't really know what I think about this idea. It'd take a bit of effort for an already overworked questmaking department. It does, however, provide high level play for the goody-goody players who don't think the Daedra Cults and Morag Tong are so awesome.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:53 pm

Something to remember is that you shouldn't make this too big. A lot of troops are being recalled back to Cyrodiil to deal with the civil unreast there. And most of the knights probably went with them, as their superior skills would be needed most there. As it is, the Legion does not need mighty heroes to pacify the Dunmer; they have a treaty signed by the Tribunal.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:23 pm

This is the current plan as discussed with Sload and Vegor ad nauseum.

As we know Morrowind is split up into 6 administrative districts, including Vvardenfell. The plan is to have one Knight of the Imperial Dragon (from the Legion) per District and one Knight Brother (from this faction) per district. The districts are roughly as follows:

Maps 1&2 Are combined, with the Imperial Admin Post at Darconis
Map 3 has an Imperial Admin Post at Fort Wavemoth (next to OE)
Map 4 has the post at Fort Shadowmoth
Map 5 has the post at Reich Parkeep or, if there will still be a fort there, Blacklight
Map 6 has the post at Narsis, or if no fort is made there (which would be stupid being the Hlaalu Capital) Old Keep

The role of the Imperial Knights is like the commanders of the Legion. If the Legion teaches you how to fight and equips you then the Knights have told them where to fight and sent them the equipment. Vvardenfell needs no knight as it has the General. Map 3, rather than having a Brother Knight, has the Paladin. If you think of it like the Roman Legion, the Paladin is to the Knight Brothers as the First Cohort Commander is to the other Cohort Commanders.

The basic plot will play out like this. If you talk to any knight once you have become a Knight Errand in the Imperial Legion they will tell you that to persue a command post you must become a squire to a Brother Knight, and then he tells you where they are. Talk to a Knight Protector of a fort to aquire a book of Imperial Writing paper. You are now an Aspirant in the Faction. If you activate this while you have a quill and ink in your inventory you write the letters (message appears saying 'you wrote letters of application'. Give these to a Knight Protecter and he will tell you that they will be conveyed to the Knight Brothers.

A few days later speak to that Knight Protector again and he will give you the replies. The Brother of the Northern Peninsula (Map 1&2) will offer you a place, and explains how he looks for strength and hihg skills in fighting (ie Brute Force). The Paladin of the Capital District (Map 3) rejects you, saying he already has a Squire. The Brother of the Imperial Border (Map 4) accepts your application, hinting that you will need to use cunning tactics which might seem unsavoury. The Brother of the Northern Coast (Map 5) accepts you and says that you will need to master diplomacy to make a good knight. The Brother of the Southern Border (Map 6) tells you that he is too old to be training a squire and rejects your application.

Go to any of the 3 people who accepted you to recieve a test. If you fail the test you cannot become the squire to that Brother. Fail all 3 and you cant become a Brother Knight at all. If you pass the test then you become their squire. It is much like getting a patron in the great houses. Complete missions which teach you what you need to be a good commander to rise in rank and gain pieces of the Imperial Knight's Uniform (see the equipment section, I posted it there). Once you are a Keeper they tell you that to become a brother knight there would need to be a vacancy. Your best bet is to try and depose the Brother Knight of the Southern Border (Map 6)

There are several ways to accomplish this. Firstly you could try and reason with him, with a complex argument for the true intellectual. Secondly you could investigate his interests and arrange for a certain play to be performed which would make him like you and also realise how it is time to retire. Thirdly you could cause him to become ill through poisoning...nothing deadly, just enough to disqualify him from duty. Finally you could convince him that you are better for the job by killing something powerfull in the Argon Jungle.

Once you are the Brother Knight you need to choose who becomes Knight Protector of your fort. There are 3 candidates and it doesnt matter which you choose, its just a matter of who you want to have as your postman (Since the Knight Protector is always around he is in charge of day to day things of a fort, including recieving mail). From here on you go around doing commander-esqu tasks. You get the missions by post from General Darius and then you choose which person to carry out those tasks. Depending on who you pick you get different rewards. You must also do things like visitng places like Old Keep to choose the next Knight Protector. Once you reach the top rank of Seneschal you choose a squire from 3 applicants (NPCs from the earlier tests).

If you are also the Knight of the Imperial Dragon for any region then you qualify to become the Paladin. There are several ways to accomplish this. You could again talk the man into resigning. You could challenge him to a duel and beat him (not necessarily kill). You could investigate his rooms and locate comprimising material which when followed up leads to him taking bribes from the Camonna Tong which leads to his dismissal from the Legion and the Knights. Whatever way you accomplish it you become the Paladin and your Squire becomes the Brother Knight of your old District.

Any suggestions are well and truely appreciated and taken into consideration, often passed into the faction too.

Edit: A little bit of flavour for this faction. If you look at 'General' Darius you find that he is only at the rank of Knight Protector. We can say that he is the Knight Brother for Vvardenfell (nobody is going to check in the CS and make a big deal if they know our policy). As a knight protector he is not even at the rank of Paladin, but obviously as the actual general (which would be a really REALLY high rank, as in you have to be one of the top men in the Empire) left Morrowind due to a lack of battle and the disturbances in the Capital he left Darius in command as an acting General. He could have done this for many raesons, such as Vvardenfell is the only region with any significant threat left or maybe Darius was just best for the job. Either way I think that the Knights and maybe some other ranking men should gripe about this and how he is milking it too much.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:42 pm

I don't really like the idea of having to be in the Imperial Legion. It would make a little sense, reality-wise, but my idea was to make a new faction, not extend an already-existing one.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:03 pm

Anything military by definition will have ties to the legion. Would they let an ex convict join the ranks of Knights? Nope, probably not. They would probably have to prove themselves.

This is the business and organisational side of the Legion, the men behind the fighters planning the next move and caring for their needs.

EDIT: Backstory for each of the existing Knight Brothers

Telvannis District
Name: Marrick
Station: Darconis
Race: Redguard
Background: Marrick joined the legion at the age of 23 after the loss of his wife and children to illness, in order to get as far away from Hammerfell as he could. An excellent soldier, he swiftly rose through the ranks of the legion. His progress was only halted when he was forced to withdraw from active duty due to injury. He suffered a stab wound to the chest and though an Imperial Cult healer saved his life he could no longer endure the exertions of battle. Desperate to remain in the Legion he applied to join the Imperial Knights and after training under his predecessor, Afer Liore, gained the post of the Knight Brother of the Telvannis Peninsula. His methods are usually straight forward, generally employing sound tactics and a good amount of force to achieve his goals.

Mournhold District
Name: Martius Ciro
Station: Fort Wavemoth
Race: Imperial
Background: Ciro is the ideal candidate for the post of Paladin of Vvardenfell. As is required of the Paladin, he rose to the rank of Knight of the Imperial Dragon before entering the knights. After training under Crito Tullius and waiting for an opening, he took the position of Paladin from the retiring Alor Deridus, appointing several of his previous comrades into hihg ranking positions. This left his old district of Telvannis where he was the Knight of the Imperial Dragon without much in the way of leadership, and that position passed by default to the governer. Apart from this move, Ciro has been an exemplary Paladin, fuffilling all the requirements of the position.

Narsis District
Name: Cambus Rellio
Station: Everguard Fortress
Race: Imperial
Background: Rellio was born into a wealthy family of the city of Cyrodiil. After a privilaged childhood of education Rellio joined the legion and applied to become a knight as soon as he could. An intelligent man, he employs diplomacy over force. Though stationed at Everguard Rellio generally stays in the Hlaalu Capital of Narsis where he acts as a sort of advisor to the Duke. Rellio hopes that his position as the Knight Brother for this influential District will lead to advancement in Cyrodiil.

Southern Velothis District
Name: Guls Arvel
Station: Fort Shadowmoth
Race: Dunmer
Background: Arvel is the only native Imperial Knight in Morrowind and as you might expect he is from the very Imperialized House Hlaalu. He did request to be stationed in the Narsis district but due to worries that he might allow certain practices of his house to go unchecked he was stationed in the Redoran controlled Velothis District. As one mihgt expect he is acutely paranoid of assasination and as such has learned how to employ the tactics which might be used against him. Though his methods are sometimes unsavoury he undenyably gets the job done.

Northern Velothis District
Name: Crito Tullius
Station: (Probably Blacklight)
Race: Imperial
Background: Tullius is the oldest of the Imperial Knights in Morrowind, bar none. He has served the legion since he was a young man, going where he is sent. During his leave he returns to his hometown of Sutch where he has a family. His two sons have joined the legion too. It is families like this that strengthen the Legion. Tullius has been passed over for advancement many times due to the fact that despite being a good commander he is not exceptional. Many expect Tullius to retire soon.

I think it would be most appropriate to allow the player to join at the rank of Knight Protector in the legion. Thats the closest that you get to Admin in the legion and from there you could either go down the route of the guy who commands during the battles (KotID) or the guy who commands the smooth running of the legion as whole (KB).

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:24 am

This is just starting to not make sense.

A) The Imperial Knights maybe should have an acception modifier based off of your rank in the Imperial Legion, along with a rep modifier, not a rank requirement. That just makes the Knights feel like a mundane extension of an already-existing faction that in Vvardenfell, frankly was boring IMO. [You were just basically an independant agent to be stepped on, again]

B) What happened to Firewatch and Old Ebonheart? Firewatch is a massive castle with a great spire and everything, and OE doesn't even need an explaination. None of these are going to be IK bases in your idea? That makes little sense. There's Helseth, but he has the Dark Brotherhood and Royal Guard to take care of most of the problems.

C) It was at first argued that Morrowind was possibly too barren and dangerous to deply high-ranking soldiers. Now knights are being thrown into Narsis, mountains, and Telvanni cities. THAT, makes no sense.

D) I'm not saying your quests are bad, but a lot of them are just generic. We've had the duels, send eddy off to do whatever, and all that gunk before. I've looked at your quest ideas, and many of them look like things that have already been done. You can possibly choose what you want to do when you send someone out to do your dirty work for you, but there's really no hands on missions, which leads us onto our next point.

E) It's based almost completely on pure aristocracy. Most of the quests consist of you being tested, and trying to oust power just so you can advance. Knights are nobles, not power hungry sweet-talkers. My idea of the Imperial Knights was to be a commander and actually function like a general in the higher ranks. Going out to fetch some roots from a shipwreck does not sound like anything particularly knightly to me.

F) From the outline you've made, you advance entirely too fast. No other faction that I can think of kicks you up a rank for every quest that you do. "You got me some roots and proved you could beat up a moderately angry troll, Gallant!"

I think I'm done ranting for now.. ._.[/i]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:54 am

A) The Imperial Knights maybe should have an acception modifier based off of your rank in the Imperial Legion, along with a rep modifier, not a rank requirement. That just makes the Knights feel like a mundane extension of an already-existing faction that in Vvardenfell, frankly was boring IMO. [You were just basically an independant agent to be stepped on, again]

If you don't want a guild to be "just an extension" of another, you shouldn't chose one that is obviously an extension of that other (The Imperial Knights are an Imperial military faction, the Imperial Legion is the Imperial military)

B) What happened to Firewatch and Old Ebonheart? Firewatch is a massive castle with a great spire and everything, and OE doesn't even need an explaination. None of these are going to be IK bases in your idea? That makes little sense. There's Helseth, but he has the Dark Brotherhood and Royal Guard to take care of most of the problems.

I assure you that Jale has thought long and hard about these locations, he's been thinking about the whole thing for days and days.

C) It was at first argued that Morrowind was possibly too barren and dangerous to deply high-ranking soldiers. Now knights are being thrown into Narsis, mountains, and Telvanni cities. THAT, makes no sense.

It was argued by someone else (that someone else being me, I believe). His locations are based on a lot of thought.

D) I'm not saying your quests are bad, but a lot of them are just generic. We've had the duels, send eddy off to do whatever, and all that gunk before. I've looked at your quest ideas, and many of them look like things that have already been done. You can possibly choose what you want to do when you send someone out to do your dirty work for you, but there's really no hands on missions, which leads us onto our next point.

Because there's nothing else that can be done. He wanted to have a whole lead-an-army-in-a-skirmish idea, until that was shut down because it would be scripting hell.

E) It's based almost completely on pure aristocracy. Most of the quests consist of you being tested, and trying to oust power just so you can advance. Knights are nobles, not power hungry sweet-talkers. My idea of the Imperial Knights was to be a commander and actually function like a general in the higher ranks. Going out to fetch some roots from a shipwreck does not sound like anything particularly knightly to me.

Again, Morrowind is not designed for you to be a general. I don't think you quite understand the Empire, though. In the Empire, a noble IS a power hungry sweet-talker.

F) From the outline you've made, you advance entirely too fast. No other faction that I can think of kicks you up a rank for every quest that you do. "You got me some roots and proved you could beat up a moderately angry troll, Gallant!"

Because he was told to keep it small.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:29 pm

Raijin wrote:This is just starting to not make sense.

A) The Imperial Knights maybe should have an acception modifier based off of your rank in the Imperial Legion, along with a rep modifier, not a rank requirement. That just makes the Knights feel like a mundane extension of an already-existing faction that in Vvardenfell, frankly was boring IMO. [You were just basically an independant agent to be stepped on, again]

B) What happened to Firewatch and Old Ebonheart? Firewatch is a massive castle with a great spire and everything, and OE doesn't even need an explaination. None of these are going to be IK bases in your idea? That makes little sense. There's Helseth, but he has the Dark Brotherhood and Royal Guard to take care of most of the problems.

C) It was at first argued that Morrowind was possibly too barren and dangerous to deply high-ranking soldiers. Now knights are being thrown into Narsis, mountains, and Telvanni cities. THAT, makes no sense.

D) I'm not saying your quests are bad, but a lot of them are just generic. We've had the duels, send eddy off to do whatever, and all that gunk before. I've looked at your quest ideas, and many of them look like things that have already been done. You can possibly choose what you want to do when you send someone out to do your dirty work for you, but there's really no hands on missions, which leads us onto our next point.

E) It's based almost completely on pure aristocracy. Most of the quests consist of you being tested, and trying to oust power just so you can advance. Knights are nobles, not power hungry sweet-talkers. My idea of the Imperial Knights was to be a commander and actually function like a general in the higher ranks. Going out to fetch some roots from a shipwreck does not sound like anything particularly knightly to me.

F) From the outline you've made, you advance entirely too fast. No other faction that I can think of kicks you up a rank for every quest that you do. "You got me some roots and proved you could beat up a moderately angry troll, Gallant!"

I think I'm done ranting for now.. ._.[/i]

A) This is the managerial/logistics/command side of the Legion wahich is not expressed in the Imperial Legion itself.

The legions hire qualified recruits of proven skill and character, and provide training, goods, and services at discounts. The lower ranks are common troopers and officers, but the upper ranks include the orders of the Imperial knights.

Orders. This is just a separate order of knights.

B) Firewatch is on Map 1, where quests are all but done. By moving the Knight to Darconis on Map 2 I can tie it in with other ones like the Imperial Cult. The Knight in Map 3 is within sight of OE, in Fort Wavemoth. It's just the castle next to the main fort, out on the water. I put him there because OE is supposed to be a neutral zone at the moment, from what I have heard. However this can change.

C) One Knight per region is not stupid and seems very logical to me. THey aren't that high ranking and are an integral part of the legion operation. Without them the legion would be unsupplied and without any orders.

D) You can tell which ones I have really mulled over and which I made up as I went along. I welcome some better ideas for the more generic quests.

E) What you have seen so far is the training to be the knights, so you arent an actual commander yet. Im going to write that soon, so stay tuned. These knights are commanders, but I set it up so that while Marrick for example is only there because he was pulled out of active duty from injury, the man in Narsis is using this as an advancement path to greater things in the Capital. This is how it often happened in Rome...people getting military positions to advance their diplomatic power.

F) As far as the legion is actual concerned, that bit I have written so far, all of those quests, only gets you one rank...from a Squire to a Knight Brother. The rest is all to prove qualities of a good commander...ie prove that you are Gallant, then Chivalrous etc. In terms of power, thats as much as two ranks in the Legion:

KNIGHTS:(Knight Protector)->Squire->Knight Brother
LEGION:Knight Protector->Garland->Imperial Dragon

The next few ranks are like proving you are a good commander by actually doing the job. You dont get that much more power by becoming the Paladin, its just like being the First Cohort Commander in the Roman Legion.

Hope that answers your worries.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:56 pm

Long posts. All discussion make Arcandrith go crazy.
But we could make the knights for Cyrodill. But that's a long ways a way.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:59 pm

Ummmmmm already moved on to making quests.

There are already Knights in Morrowind...Knights of the Imperial Dragon. This is just a different order of knights. Any Savant will tell you that there are several orders of knights. While the Order of the Imperial Dragon is all about leading the troops into battle the Order of the Brothers (just what I like to call them) are in charge of the logistical side, such as getting all the supplies in order, keeping the keeps in check, etc.