This is a problem. I am for more faces, it will certainly get repeatative without them However, I possess a deep abiding hatred for those horrid "replace everyone with supermodels" mods. Part of what made Morrowind cool and unique was that it wasn't like every other fantasy game: where every single woman was a flouncing, scantily-clad bimbo placed blatenetly to satiate the lust of poor hopeless gamers. My pet peve is the dunmer, who are supposed to be a tough haggard alienish people (look at the concept art) They are not supposed to be pretty elves out of LOTR. I hate seeing some blue skinned Orlando bloom or... Astin Kucher.... or something out of Tiger beats magazine.
Anyway...... The beast races need new heads the most, and they are the least provided for.
Thanks for your input. You should check out the face threads in Objects of Tamriel - they are locked at the moment, but show the kind of faces we are looking for in TR.
Macar wrote:PS. This is not intended to offend.
I noticed that some members gave strange responses to your posts in sound & music. Just ignore it - I haven't seen you post anything in the least offensive so far.
Last edited by Vernon on Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
True, there are quite a lot of headpacks out for people. However, this hardly individualizes NPCs on Vvardenfell. I don't think that it will cover the rest of Tamriel. I'm all for more head. Heads. What did I say first?
Really, though. It will take forever for someone to go through ALL the NPC's in TR to make a Head Replacement mod, and I doubt they'd be interested in finishing it, come Oblivion. It'd be better to spend the extra day to sort out a bunch of new models, so that whenever a new NPC is made the modder doing that map can put an individual face on it. Boom, higher quality mod.
Pwn: "The term has become so ubiquitous in Internet circles that it is often used outside of gaming contexts; for example, "he just got pwned in that debate" or "the hunters pwned that bear."
53 vote yes and 13 vote no. That is a pretty obvious consensus. Afaik Morden is going to start with NPCs on map 1 soon, so we need to make a move on this.
lol just blame the horrible looks on the fact they live on an island with a horrible devil, walking lumps of rotted flesh, flying lizards and eccentric (slightly psychotic) telvanni mages that enjoy raising dead and toher such tasks.
Otherwise just say with the release of TR: "WARNING: Bethseda faces will not blend with new improved mainland heads... We reccommend these fine head replacers [insert face replacer]"
I can't say I agree with it. The headpacks I run on mine seem to affect SOME TR NPC's, and thats fine for me. It adds a great degree of individuality to everyone.
'What if man is not really a scoundrel - man in general, I mean, the whole race of mankind - then all the rest is prejudice, simply artificial terrors and there are no barriers and it's all as it should be.'
Im for heads, though if we decide to switch to the TES IV engine they have a program which automatically randomises faces for NPCs during creation, or you can make specific faces...say if you want to put our modding team in as NPCs with the faces
Haplo wrote:so, I know the concensus was to compile new headsd, but...This IS a bolt-on, right? right?
No. Or this wouldn't be as much of an issue. We want new heads in OoT before NPCs get truly underway, so we have some nice variance. Stalker and I have waited a long time, to let this thread give a good run with the poll, but we pretty much have the consensus now.
I'd say more heads would be a great idea, but I agree that we should not just use one of the face packs out there. They're all too good looking and far too different from the original game head textures, as has been said. I think we should use the bloodmoon head textures as our guide, as they are higher quality than the Vvardenfell ones, but not so much so as to look rediculous when placed next to an npc using a Vvardenfell head. Obviously though this requires making all of the new head textures ourselves rather than using any addon packs currently available, but in my opinion the currently available packs just don't fit well enough with the original game faces.
Claims completed:
Yashazmus, Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon
Mzankh, Dwemer Ruin
Nchazdrumn, Dwemer Ruin
Sirrilas, Shrine of Mephala
Moriken, Abandoned Dunmer Stronghold
Old Necrom Morag Tong GH
Darconis Diamond Mine
Assorted other boring claims.
I am not a big fan of adding ANYTHING that is not consistent with the original game. If I had things my way, this mod would not look like a mod when it was done, but just more of the original game. Keep firmly in mind that modders can and will add things to our esm once its released. If they want better heads, they can add better heads.
Vvardenfell's faces are not simply ugly, they are undetailed. If we incorporate highly detailed heads into our esm, they will clash with the heads from the existing game, and it will be blatantly obvious to the casual observer that this is a mod, and not an expansion.
This is simply my two cents. However, I know it will be mostly ignored because of the direction this project is heading, which was one of the reasons I left in the first place. Trying to keep anything original and traditional in today's liberal society is seemingly impossible.
Trudging through the relentless Skyrim snowstorms, the lone Paladin looks on in sorrow as the land of Tamriel evolves without him; his mind occupied with other matters.
Lord Gallant wrote:I am not a big fan of adding ANYTHING that is not consistent with the original game. If I had things my way, this mod would not look like a mod when it was done, but just more of the original game. Keep firmly in mind that modders can and will add things to our esm once its released. If they want better heads, they can add better heads.
Vvardenfell's faces are not simply ugly, they are undetailed. If we incorporate highly detailed heads into our esm, they will clash with the heads from the existing game, and it will be blatantly obvious to the casual observer that this is a mod, and not an expansion.
This is simply my two cents. However, I know it will be mostly ignored because of the direction this project is heading, which was one of the reasons I left in the first place. Trying to keep anything original and traditional in today's liberal society is seemingly impossible.
I don't intend to add highly detailed head meshes or textures to OoT. On the same note, I don't intend to add 'ANYTHING' to TR that isn't consistent with the original game. I don't believe Stalker or anyone else for that matter has this intention either. You can look to the Clothing, Heads and Skins forum to see how painstaking the review process was. It wasn't fun, and required quite a degree of objectivity in a sense. We found some heads amongst a large range that were low detail and consequently as similar to Bethesda's stock heads as possible. This thread is here to resolve the heads quandry and your suggestion that we aren't striving to keep things original and traditional I find fairly offensive, to be honest. Should we have done TR in the Daggerfall engine maybe? If you want to offer an opinion, please tell us specifically where you think we have gone wrong, instead of hinting.
If you isolate Morrowind, then if TR is how Bethesda would have hypothetically built the province, they would have used a larger range of heads than they included with the game. If this is not a reasonable hypothesis, I'll eat my hat.
Well, if you are truly not intending to include such things as "Rhedd" heads into the project, then I'll tip my hat to you before you eat yours. This wasn't the focus previously, when such things as children were being seriously considered. If this focus has changed, all for the better
I wholeheartedly agree with you that Bethesda would have made many more heads for a landmass the size of the one we are attempting to make. I just do not think that these would have remotely resembled anything like the heads that are currently being mass-produced in the ES mod forums, and apparently you agree with me on this point. If I mislead you to believe that I mean for NO new content to be produced, I apologize. MUCH more new content is required for a project like this, obviously, but I just wish to emphasize that I don't want to see TR go the way of Silgrad and add a ton of popular, inconsistent content models for the sake of variety.
Trudging through the relentless Skyrim snowstorms, the lone Paladin looks on in sorrow as the land of Tamriel evolves without him; his mind occupied with other matters.
...but I just wish to emphasize that I don't want to see TR go the way of Silgrad and add a ton of popular, inconsistent content models for the sake of variety.
I feel confident that TR won't go the way of Silgrad - I think we put so much emphasis on lore here that no-one would want to see it ruined by Rhedd's movie stars and Tiaras. I think and indeed hope that most of us are bright enough to realise when things have gone down the Silgrad G'Aedra road. I'll have high-tailed it by that time, I assure you. ;)
I think this is just stupid. Who needs heads? Morrowind and TR dont need people to come up every time giving us heads that look like paper machee. If we can't make good heads, simple, don't make them at all.
"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
-Hippocrates
Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote:I think this is just stupid. Who needs heads? Morrowind and TR dont need people to come up every time giving us heads that look like paper machee. If we can't make good heads, simple, don't make them at all.
I remember making an Imperial NPC for something. As it happens, there are hardly any faces for them, and they're all very similar. It took a couple tries to make an NPC that didn't remind me a lot of an important NPC from the original game.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
Just wandering, why not use new hair styles this will make a difrence whit aperance not change the faces and be consistentend whit the rest of the province.
Just to give an example, the difrence between greek and roman hair styles, nearly the same but still diffrent.
Or use some scars on face's slightly difrent collers ect. this would set them appart but still would make them the same like the morrowind ones whitout the twin effect
I think It would be great to get some new heads out their i stoped playing morrowind for about a month because i stated getting sick seeing people looking like other people, or was it a cold? either or we really need some new faces also having some new hair would be great to.
Agrees with the consensus. The face/NPC ratio needs to stay consistent.
Nobody objected to adding weapons, armors, and books, did they?
And yes, if you want them to be quickly done and fitting in well with Bethsoft's heads, just start from a Bethsoft face texture, you'll keep the same low-res aspect.
I have another idea (hope it's new). we should make that headpack in bethesda's style and do a bolt on wich replaces them with high-res ones. that could solve some problems - though it means more work.
current claims:
finished claims:
i2-423-Tri
--
"Would you choose supremacy
If it led to isolation?
Could you handle the solitude?
Would you still prefer the throne?"
There simply aren't enough faces included in Morrowind to spread all around Tamriel. In Nova Orsinium, can you possibly imagine how many clones there would be? Or in Valenwood?
i meant to add NEW faces but not hi-res ones and add an another pack wich replaces them. so if you want to use low-res models you can use them but the other pack would allow you to use high-poligon heads.
current claims:
finished claims:
i2-423-Tri
--
"Would you choose supremacy
If it led to isolation?
Could you handle the solitude?
Would you still prefer the throne?"
I don't suppose we're any further to seeing an agreement on this yet? Here's my final two-penneth.
Retextures, as demonstrated by the darnell competition, are easy enough to achieve, and by circumventing the "new meshes" and "hi-res" problems, show us an easy solution, which will be consistent with vanilla morrowind. Also, bmp retextures will amount to less memory required, compared to new mesh and bmp heads.
I'd be willing to volunteer to do something like this, making, say, five to ten retextures per race.
New heads are a must for TR.
There is no way the project can be credible without them.
For example, there are only 3 female orc heads (and htose are all retextures of the same model!)
Bethesda's faces were of poor quality even in 2002. Compared to the water effect I couldn't believe how there could be such a difference in quality in the same game. I like most community-made faces, particularly those by Emma. And if someone cries lore and says that people in Tamriel are supposed to look like Bethesda's stock NPCs I'd like to humbly point to Oblivion, which makes it kindof obvious that Bethesda is going with more realistic faces. Just my random thoughts spilling out.
Razorwing wrote:And if someone cries lore and says that people in Tamriel are supposed to look like Bethesda's stock NPCs I'd like to humbly point to Oblivion, which makes it kindof obvious that Bethesda is going with more realistic faces.
For me, it is not a question of lore rather than a question of consistency. It wouldn't make sense for all the faces on Vvardenfell to look like they were sculpted from ground turkey and bird shit, while all the faces on the mainland look like professional models (which they may or may not be based off of).
Well, I could do heads. But as you see by Darnell, mine aren't spectacular. Barely better quality than Beth heads...more like variations than retextures. One of you guys just PM me if you need anything.
Ich liebe garfield! Wir lieben Garfield!
http://s13.invisionfree.com/TiMorrowind
That's my morrowind forum. Go there now.
However, I possess a deep abiding hatred for those horrid "replace everyone with supermodels" mods. Part of what made Morrowind cool and unique was that it wasn't like every other fantasy game: where every single woman was a flouncing, scantily-clad bimbo placed blatenetly to satiate the lust of poor hopeless gamers. My pet peve is the dunmer, who are supposed to be a tough haggard alienish people (look at the concept art) They are not supposed to be pretty elves out of LOTR. I hate seeing some blue skinned Orlando bloom or... Astin Kucher.... or something out of Tiger beats magazine.
