6-8-Dre

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:16 pm

Claim type: Exterior
Claim ID: TR_6-8-Dre (#191)
Faction: Dres
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 50%)
Location: (10,-49):(13,-53), Size: 20
Files: TR_6-8-Dre_Haplo_1.esp

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Formerly 6-8. Nemon, please describe.

Argon Jungle.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:15 pm

Hmm... This is where I need to start updating from now on? Alrighty then!

Last time I tried to access the site, it was down, and that was somewhat of a downer...

Mostly, I've been changing the heights of the land, and adding textures and whatnot. I've got more questions for anyone who would know a little bit more lore than me, and quick answers are the best ones (that way, I can use the answers before I have to drive all the way back into town to find them).

First, I've come to the realization that about 30 cells of nothing but moss, ferns, trees, logs, and, well, unending jungle, will be tedious, drawn-out, and after a while of walking through it, lose its interest. Of course, I've tried to keep things interesting with strange things that catch the eye all of a sudden, (a skull here, a broken down cart there...), but architecture every once in a great while would help things out. Obviously, it needs to be mostly jungle, and I plan on keeping it thusly, but I'd also like to know the acceptability of some things...

Structure: Run-Down Imperial Fort
My thought: Its a nice thing to come across, and the interior should also be interesting to see.
Will it fit: I hope so, its already been added

Structure: Velothi Tower
My thought: Dunno, just an idea
Will it fit: Maybe, but I don't know enough lore... were any Velothi structures made in the argon jungle? Something makes me think no....

Structure: Dwemer Ruin
My thought: There's already two in the area, I was told...
Will it fit: Don't think so...

Structure: Daedric Ruin
My thought: I think there may be too many in the area to add another
Will it fit: Probably not

I had others, but they've been forgotten. I welcome any responses to these ideas, and any new ones.

Other than that all I can say is that I've also been working on a script that will add the water sound to scum/water that isn't at water level, though it still probably needs work and some cleaning up, and I plan on posting that in the Scripting section. I'll be around for a little bit, but I have to get back home soon to take care of a sick dog.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:28 pm

Wilderness may seem like it will get boring. But trust me, once you get the hang of things, wilderness can be way more fun than architecture. In towns and cities, you are limited by lots of factors. In the wilderness, you have much more freedom. Instead of adding tons of structures, create points of interest using flora, rocks, and other natural objects.
Some ideas could be a group of trees that form natural shelters, grottos made of rock, exterior caves and streams.
Now, with a 30 cell claim, you probably will need to add something in there. And overgrown Imperial fort may be acceptable, but I would think that a shack town that has been totally overgrown, with roots going through the shacks and whatnot, would be cooler. However, Noir will have to give you the final word on what is acceptable to add.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:47 pm

The Argon Jungle is a festering swamp, one last holdover of the Black Marsh into Morrowind. It is rife with decay, moreso than the Black Marsh itself--the Argonians would claim that this is because it is too far from the life giving powers of the Hist. Whatever the case it is a foreboding place filled with life but also much death, and in it dwell a great many foul and unwholesome creatures. Dres Slavers brave the main waterway in order to foray into the Argon jungle and capture more fodder for the slave markets, but even their well equipped expeditions make camp reluctantly, and only on the less overgrown shores of the river. Anyone who ventures too far into the jungle is bound to never return.

I already have included a sunken Dunmer fortress in my section, so it probably would not be a good idea to double up on that, maybe one more ruined town settlement might be good, using the ex_ruin pieces. Sirwoot and I have the slavers for the jungle covered too, I think. There's a book somewhere that mentions the existence of great mounds built by a forgotten people in ages past at the North end of Black Marsh. Perhaps you could add some of those and then add cave entrances to some to make them burial mounds. Mainly try to stick to natural things though, just think of interesting things that would appear naturally, like a vine curtain hanging from an overhead rock, or a small gully filled with ferns, or other things like that so the plac just isn't an endless expanse of sameness.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:10 pm

Ah, Dexter, It appears you missread me, or I missread your reading of me, or I missread your missreading of me. Either way, I wish I had a donut.

I've not gotten bored of the jungle, I just fear that It might get boring for someone trudging through it, and I fear that I MIGHT get bored of it, now that you've suggested that I was (thank you very much!). I don't want tons of architecture, no, that was never the point. It wouldn't be a jungle then, IMO. I just wanted ideas for the sparse few bits that will be there. Anyways, I love the idea about the overgrown shack town. (Hmmm... there needs to be an Argon Jungle root mesh or two...)

And indeed, Zalzidrax, I've noticed your Dunmer Stronghold place, (very nice). And I assume that the slavers are the ones who built that camp on the shore of the river?

Anyways, those are some good ideas too (streams! my god, why didn't I ever think of streams?), and of course I've tried to keep things interesting with cool natural places. The main river that runs through the claim starts with a series of waterfalls that cascade over numerous rocks. One happens to hide a cave entrance, another was dammed up, but has since fallen into misuse (ie, the dam is broken). Ferns, bittershrubs, grass, and more trees than can be... wait... that might be something for discussion... the Argon Jungle trees...

If one looks at the trees that are meant to be used in such a way that their canopies would provide little to no light to the ground below, then anyone in the area must use many of the same trees indeed, which is to be expected. But if I remember right, there's only 8 Argon Jungle trees. If you only look at the trees that are supposed to be providing "canopy cover" then that number drops... 2 are leafless, and covered in moss... another 2 are smaller, twisted, and sit upon a rock, and unless SirWoot's handy guide is mistaken, they're supposed to be undergrowth. That leaves 4 trees for the canopy. (unless you want to resize the 2 that are meant for undergrowth, which I've done on occasion...) Certainly there should be more?

Ah! Just remembered! flora_ivy is a mesh that I've long wanted to use, though it is slightly brighter than the rest of the jungle, and SirWoot's handy guide didn't include it under it's "use these meshes" section. Comments?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:20 am

Because the Black Marsh is so far off, can the core maybe approve of Ald'Argonia being in this claim? Southeastern part, near the mountains.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:59 am

What's Ald'Argonia?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:12 am

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10379

Funny coincidence, you were the only person who thought it wouldn't work. It could be two cells, and now inhabitted by outlaws, ne'erdowells, and other such miscreants.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:13 am

I don't know, but no mortal man or mer can survive the Argon Jungle. It's lore. And if it's not, it damn well should be.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:20 am

Which is exactly why you have two ruins in your claim, and millions survive the Black Marsh all the time. This would've been a walled city of outcasts originally, and still would be walled. Very well defended, and at the very edge of the jungle.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:33 am

Hmm... a hidden dunmer enclave in the Argon jungle wouldn't be out of the question- but there would have to be a safe secret route to reach it.

And the ruins in my claim at least have long been consumed by the jungle. THey were there from before it was so foreboding a place.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:11 am

Maybe the city could be reached by something akin to a Guild Guide or a Propylon Chamber? Teleportation and mysticism spells seem to be great strengths of the Dunmer, historically, so it wouldn't be a stretch. The quest possibilty there...

A cool thing to add like Dexter said is a small, abandoned shack-style village somewhere, completely overgrown by moss, vines, and whatnot. It would probably be situated next to or even on a stream or small river. You could probably also add a grotto-type cave thing, or an abandoned mine of some sort (maybe inhabited by some ugly Argon creatures). I personally don't think you should add Dwemer or Daedric ruins to your claim. An abandoned Velothi dome might work towards the border of the Jungle in your claim, but it should not be easily visible or accessible IMO.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:26 pm

Hmm... That IS an interesting idea, Sload. Just wish I had my computer here to look at what I have already, and see if I could put it in. Actually... if it goes in the southeastern part, it would have to be IN the mountains, as the southeastern area of forest (I beleive) is the area I've been working on for the past few days...

Hmm... I should at least make an attempt at an update, shouldn't I? Very well: after my inspirational last visit not long ago, I went home, and made some of the best parts of jungle that I've thus done. For instance, I spent the greater part of a night and next morning placing bittershrubs in a gully. Enough that it looked tangled even before I placed the bitterRoots in.

In another cell, I used the bone_rock(?) meshes to create the skeleton of some large, snake-like creature, though the skull needs work, or taken out completely.

Ah, and of course, I always have questions. These I asked about before, and weren't answered yet:

1. Any suggestions about the too few of trees? Resizing and rotations go a long way, but the BC had around 20, I believe, though that's a little different situation, they also didn't have to place a tree every 10 feet.

2. flora_ivy01,02. I'm constantly restraining myself from using these meshes. They're probably to bright... but I wonder if I can't simply try to darken it with Niftexture(?) and add it in, and submit it for OoT upon my full return? Hmmm...

3. (Hmm... these should probably go in the mesh requests...) Argon Jungle roots. I thought about using the WG roots, but they look kinda... meh...

And another:

4. It occured to me that the corpse containers are all human, as are the skulls. If this is the Argon Jungle, surely there should be Argonian skulls/skeletons? Or is there some lore I've not come across yet?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:47 pm

Which is exactly why you have two ruins in your claim, and millions survive the Black Marsh all the time. This would've been a walled city of outcasts originally, and still would be walled. Very well defended, and at the very edge of the jungle.

Sload lord, hate to get involved in your petty war with haplo, but what you're saying is, in fact,pure and complete crap.
Only three people in recorded (aka imperial) history have EVER escaped the jungle alive. There is no "end" of the jungle except for a small mountain chain, the jungle doesn't start "breaking up", it stops altogether suddenly. And the ruins were built pre-first-era, when all of morrowind was a giant ashy volcanic mess. THe jungle, though overgrown, is actually very young in botanical terms - only about 1,000 years old. THe vegetation in it grows explosively, however; the trees fully mature after only five years (they're small, after all) and the undergrowth plants even shorter - not to mention that the soil is so rich with rotted animal and plant matter that the growth rate is boosted even further.
I think the neatest idea i've heard so far for what to add is kothringi burial mounds for a large part of the claim. The mounds would probably have very little in them, but I'd imagine there would be alot of mounds, not to mention that the items would be ridiculously valuable, seeing that so insanely little of the kothringi survives today.
For those who don't know, the Kothringi are a now-extinct race of humans that lived primarily in sutadee argonia and far-south (argon jungle) morrowind. They went extinct during the khanhathen flu of the second era, in which 1/4th of the human population died in Tamriel.
And about those ivy meshes, don't use them. use the Flora_BC_Moss meshes, which are far more diverse and perfectly suited for the jungle. However, I would strongly reccomend NOT to use them on plants - the jungle, with full undergrowth and everything, already takes up alot of FPS. when it comes to ruins and structures, however, go nuts.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:57 pm

Um...Sirwoot, you make no sense. At all. Like 0.

1. What war with Haplo? My arguement with him about the Camonna Tong? That has nothing to do with this.

2. When you use quotes like that, it's supposed to be something I said that you don't agree with. I never said any of the things in quotes.

3. That "small mountain range" is the lower end of the Velothi mountains.

4. No one has escaped the jungle alive...except all of the Argonians and assorted others who live there?

5. Um..so these "Kothringi" could survive it, but a bunch of Dunmer buiding a walled city couldn't? Right.

6. Why can't he use ivy AND moss?

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:13 am

The argon jungle is not part of the Black Marsh, it is Morrowind. Sure it is a swampy jungle area, but it is not in Argonian lands, the lands of the Hist, it is a different region if similar in climate. There are no Argonians that live there... it is far more ferocious a land than the Black Marsh, it is a festering disease ridden swamp, even more in decay than Black Marsh itself. The Argonians would say it is because it is far from the life giving power of the Hist. Dunmer tales say that the Argonians infused the place with their black magics. Whatever the case, it houses far more evil and deadly creatures than the Black Marsh itself, and fortunately for the Argonians, is not worthwhile for the Dres slavers to travel through except by river. Nobody who has tried to directly travel on foot from the Black Marsh to Morrowind via the Argon Jungle has never been heard from again. That could be because anyone with half a brain would just boat upriver, but that wouldn't make the story half so intimidating. Either way, even the most battle-hardy Dres slavers only timidly camp on the jungle shores, and it is not unheard of for an expedition to have disappeared after making camp, ostensibly dragged off into the wilderness and devoured by some monstrous beast.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:23 am

Thankyou. I did not know of the difference between Argonia and the Argon Jungle. They just seem so similar, you see. This city could easily be built on the river. Hell, it could even be run by these slavers now.

You said it yourself, Zalz. A lot more remarkable things happen in the real world than we are letting happen. Things like "Things in the Argon Jungle will rip you up" and "House Indoril loves their Temple." should be taken as guidelines, not absolutes.

And Sirwoot, if you could explain to me how there could be enough Dunmer to build some sort of huge Tower in your claim but not enough to build a little town in PoHa's, I'd be thankful.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:38 pm

(Strange things happening... couldn't find the post button so I had to click the quote button to post...)

Ah, good to see the thoughts churning. I will add mine... now.

After checking what I had and the locations of things, I'm sorry Sload, there won't be room for your city after all. Err... Omicron, is it now? Argument over.

Yes, the Ivy idea will not work. I even tried recoloring it to make it more jungly, but I don't think I did a good job. Oh well.

DarkAce12, is it? I can't post up anything new, due to a lack of home internet. (Public library computers sucks) I'll try to find the old photobucket link though... [Edit] Sorry, no luck... [/Edit]

And of course, I will say that I've updated quite a lot. I went on a psychotic spree of Jungliness and did quite a few cells, it seems. 25% if you count only the cells that are completely finished. And then I have several others that are started, so I figured that amounted to 30%. Trees, ferns, rocks, logs, mist, moss, and muck. Oh, and of course some interesting terrain. So... 10 cells done, and they're all Argon Jungle. Suffice to say, I think that the WGish mountains in the north-west part of the claim and even the Black Marsh cells will go quicker.

I've come across a couple of problems, however.

1.) TR_flora_AJ_T07 seems to have a collision problem. I checked it several times, both in the open and in the jungle, and it never seems to fail. It seems to impede your progress as you try to run by one side, though there's nothing there to stop you. Run around one a time or two, and you'll know what I mean.

2.) The moss in the muckponds seems to have an allergic reaction to the mist that accompanies it. Any time I've looked at a bit of moss (either attached to a tree origionally or placed there by hand), that had contact with furn_mist, I could always plainly see the outlines of a clear box around them. This, like the tree, is something that would be better seen than described... perhaps someone can get a screen for me? Please?

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 5:54 pm

That also happens with the Ferns if you'll notice. I think my solution was to have the mist trail along the ground more, and avoid the ferns, so that problem wasn't readily apparent.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 pm

Just a quick update...

I've finished the terrain editing for the jungle now, and added all the f03 ferns that I should need throughout the jungly areas that aren't finished.

I'll try to lower the mist. That should help at least a little. TR_flora_AJ_T07 & T08 both seem to have some sort of collision problem on one side, though...

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:44 pm

WORT WORT WORT!!

PoHa! makes his grand return to daily internet access. I've moved back into the dorms today, and after a do a few things, I'll upload what I've completed (if anyone wants to see it) as well as post some pics if I can find my Photobucket account...

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:30 pm

Great PoHa, I'd love to see what you are working with. Post them whenever you get a chance.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:34 pm

[url=http://photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/]Here's the link to my Photobucket.[/url] Expect the .esp later today (probably

).

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:43 pm

Heh - methinks photobucket automatically resized all of your images. Anyway, it looks nice, can't wait to see the esp. :)

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:59 pm

Dang... sorry, didn't even notice... I'll try to get around to uploading the .esp even faster then...

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:49 am

UPLOADED!!

If anyone finds something they don't like, needs work, or have a suggestion on how something could be better, please PM, YIM or MSN me. Or, if you want, post here.

AH! Almost forgot. The .esp has not been cleaned in a few days, and requires [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=13683]these meshes.[/url]

A couple of questions for any passing moderator:

Why aren't the theme colors working, or is it something wrong on my end?

Could someone clean up my thread a little? Maybe get rid of those first few posts when they didn't know the claim was mine and Commonsnat's large pic?

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:46 am

Clean. And theme colours are broken until someone fixes them! ^_^ Downloading the claim now - can't wait to see it.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:51 am

oh no... I hope to god that one daytime pic is heavily WIP... because its missing THE MOST ESSENTIAL bit of the jungle - a totally ceiling-like canopy, with NO SPACE from treetop edge to treetop edge.
the othe rpics are too dark, and I cant use MW till sunday... *fingers crossed that im wrong and poha made a brilliantly awesome claim, as I convinced myslef he would*

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:01 am

Nah dude, the canopy is there.
I'm missing some textures and some meshes though. Are these the ones you did yourself, that need to be added to OoT?

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:17 pm

@Vernon: Thanks!

@SirWoot: Yes, there is a canopy, as Dexter said. The pic that you're referring to is titled "So much to do" And some of the other pics were in daytime, the pics are just so damned small and dark...

@Dexter: Probably. Those retextures that are being reviewed are the only things that I can ever remember adding... hopefully they'll be added to OoT...

Ah, yes! I needed to ask you, SirWoot, about the muckponds. Do they get small plants/mushrooms in them, or do they only have mist and dead trees (which looks pretty cool by itself, if you ask me)?

[Edit]I've found out why photobucket resized the pics (they were all bmps...) and I've fixed the problem, and re-uploaded them. [url=http://photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/]They should be easier to see now[/url][/edit]

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:14 pm

About the muckponds, yeah, the mist and dead trees is the main gist of it. By the look of that screenshot, you got it down just fine. Adding a few mushrooms, which for some reason in my mind is for the sole purpose of making cool glowy blue light here and there

, isn't essential but adds a nice touch. Can't wait to take a look at this myself!

Dexter - About those meshes, just about all of them should be in a pack I sent to Poha before he left for the summer - poha, if you can find that and upload it, it would be great; My HD is currently residing at a friend's house (my video card/motherboard died in june and my parents are too paranoid to let me put it in THEIR computers). If not, I could probably re-assemble a pack of all the stuff (along with some other, newer meshes) in an hour or two, once sunday comes.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:23 pm

Eh? You mean these? I didn't think I used any, because I didn't know if they were OoT compliant or not, though I might have...

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:23 pm

Blasted Biggs...

Notice to any who may be exploring my claim:

I must ask that no one go off exploring through the Argon Jungle and expect that it looks anything like it should. Some of the flora and landtextures (which were not part of OoT, at least in the same form) don't appear correctly. The landtextures are the worst, making large blotches of white everywhere, which I've been unable to fix so far. If it doesn't tell me something about a path error, then it still doesn't show the textures. Quite annoying and upsetting. Also, I've been unable to even locate the AJ_rockyscrub texture...

I'll post again as soon as I fix something, or find something out.

Post here if you might have a solution.

[Edit]Found the lost texture, and fixed the landtexture problem, though I'm not quite sure how (Maybe my imaginary friend Mr. Meepo did it?). I'm currently converting the claim to use the new OoT.esm instead of the old .esp, and after that, I'll place everything that a person would need to explore the claim into a single zip, and upload it.[/Edit]

[Edit]Fixed the yellow exclamation boxes, and included in the .rar everything necessary to see the jungle in all its junglyness. Also did some preliminary height coordination with the claim north of this one. Cleaned twice, lathered once.[/edit]

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:20 am

you're getting all the jungle meshes? excellent! I have a few other meshes I dont think I ever uploaded, but they're mostly "unique" things (cave entrance, statue, fancy dres windows, etc).

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:42 am

Yes, actually, I already did, or believe I did, in the .rar at the top of the page. Though I don't know if anyone realized it yet...

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:17 am

I just took a look at your claim for the first time.
It isn't complete (but im not even sure you said it was

), but the parts that are mostly done made me simply dumbstruck - This whole time, ever since gimli dissapeared, i've been nervous about the 6-8 claim; that someone would mess it up, badly - but my fears were 100% wrong. First of all, our two claims blend seamlessley, to an almost creepy extent. You're placing rocks even better than I could, adding all sorts of neat "monster-shrubs" that are so wild that it hurts to look at them, in a good way. My only gripe is that you're using the BC rock textures instead of the AJ ones, but in some areas it looks more appropriate that way. Also, installing either your claim or OOT (I regrettably admit I forgot to get the new version) messed up the textures on the bittershrubs, but I think I've fixed it.
Seeing just how awesome the Argon Jungle looks in its entirety his has inspired me to get off my lazy ass, quit trying to hook up with people over AIM, and do some serious crunch-work on my own claim - so I'm off.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:55 am

Gee, thanks, SirWoot. Actually, I think I prefer the AJ rocks and textures, but I don't want to overuse them, and take away from their coolness (Like 355 Labor days a year. What? Labor day is cool!).

Actually, I noticed the bittershrub texture thing too while fixing my claim for the new improved OoT... black spots on the spikes of the roots, right? That wasn't my doing, as far as I know. Likely another side-effect of the .tga to .dds switch. However, I thought that those places of black looked kinda cool. Before they were menacing. Now they look like a freaking angry plant that's only purpose is to scratch you, and its menacing... and it might even have a venereal disease...

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:01 pm

Found out that I didn't quite get all the little yellow exclaimation boxes. They were hiding in the cliffs (actually, they were the cliffs...). I spent the past hour replacing, and now they should appear correctly.

SirWoot, I wonder if you might give me a list of all the objects that aren't in OoT that you used, (that I likely also used) such that I might submit it for OoT review?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:03 am

first of all, no, the problem with my bittershrubs is that the textures dont show up at all; they're pure white. I re-assigned the textures with NIFtexture, but that did no good. I'm gonna try making .DDS versions of the textures (mine have the TGA assosciation for some reason) soon.
As for the models I have to submit to OOT, there's just so many random little things; some of which I don't use but other people could (BC-style cliffs).

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:09 am

Hmm... that is odd... other than the black spots, and the landtexture problem, I had no texture problems when I upgraded to OoT.esm...

Damn... I was hoping that I had all of them already, and I could save you the trouble. Sounds like you've made more since Summer began, though... Maybe I can try to sort out what I have that you made from what's already in OoT...

[Edit]Ah, and one other thing. In the current version of 6-8, there's a hidden cave entrance underneath the last waterfall, which, since I put it there, has always had the purpose of being a slaver's cave (you know, the ones that travel by boat to the Black Marsh for fresh Argonian slaves). I've been looking at it recently, however, and wondered how they got from there to out of the jungle. The thought occured to me that they could have a really long cave complex which ran to an exit north of the jungle, but I'd rather not make it just a long cave. Then the thought came to me that It could be two or even three different caves, which were :

The first is a natural or semi-natural one, starting underneath the waterfall.
The second could be a kwama mine (are there kwama in the jungle?)
The third could be an ancient ancestral tomb, made before the jungle existed.

These caves would have been dug into from the previous one, by the slavers (and since the ancestral tomb's original opening is in the jungle, the slavers would have dug another way out).

Just a thought I had, and wanted to check lore-friendliness/acceptability.[/Edit]