What were Kagrenac trying to do?

[ShoGun]

During the battle of red mountain kagrenac tried to use the tools on lorkhans heart. What was he trying to do?

Here : http://www.til.gamingsource.net/dwemer/#6
There are three posibilities of what happened to the dwemer.
A: If he used the tools to destroy lorkhans heart, the dwemer would be transfered out of mundus. Why would he want that?

B: The tools failed and he undid his whole race.

C: Azura stopped kagrenac and sent him and the rest of the dwemer to oblivion.

Why did the dwemer want to transfer out of mundus?
"What" exactly was Lorkhan? A blasphemy, dead god.
Yes, What not who. Since Lorkhan was created.

Am I just talking nonesense?

Help me out here, I'm confused

Point is, what really happened to the dwemer?

.. oh right, discuss

[Massalinie]

Kagrenac wanted to use the tools to make himself imortal. and possibly all the dwemer immortal too, not sure.

Lorkhan, The Missing God
This Creator-Trickster-Tester deity is in every Tamrielic mythic tradition. His most popular name is the Aldmeri 'Lorkhan', or Doom Drum. He convinced or contrived the Original Spirits to bring about the creation of the mortal plane, upsetting the status quo-- much like his father Padomay had introduced instability into the universe in the Beginning Place. After the world is materialized, Lorkhan is separated from his divine center, sometimes involuntarily, and wanders the creation of the et'Ada. He and his metaphysical placement in the 'scheme of things' is interpreted a variety of ways. In Morrowind, for example, he is a being related to the Psijiic Endeavor, a process by which mortals are charged with transcending the gods that created them. To the High Elves, he is the most unholy of all higher powers, as he forever broke their connection to the spirit plane. In the legends, he is almost always an enemy of the Aldmer and, therefore, a hero of early Mankind.

So that's who Lorkan was, basically, Kagrenac's plan to make himself immortal backfired and instead destroyed his whole race.

That's about all I know, or remember i may have forgotten some stuff.

Mass

[Garriath]

We're entering probably one of the most controversial areas in all of ES lore, here. There's no definite answer to anything, and claiming one thing is the truth is dangerous. Or rather, there's no definite answer *yet.*

[ShinAli]

Absolutely. However, I'm willing to bet that they were sent into Oblivion, and we will see them again in the upcoming TES. Being that brought up as a theory within the game, the suicide cult in Mournhold preaching about the oncoming Oblivion, AND the next game being about Oblivion seem to link together really well.

No doubt we will figure out something about the Dwemer, as with ever ES game.

[Anonymous]

Not any plane they knew of. The last dwemer in the Corprusarium (yagrum?) said that he couldnt find them there

[Garriath]

Then again, supposedly Oblivion's always changing, and I don't know if it even has dimensions- I doubt Yagrum could have travelled through every Daedra Prince's realm looking for his companions.

[presh]

Interestingly in the ruins under Mournhold, there are little piles of dust which makes it look like the dwemer turned into dust, rather than went somewhere, so I'm inclined to think they were destroyed, rather than moved to another plane.

[Abramul]

Wasn't Mournhold destroyed before the Dwemer disappeared?

[presh]

No, afterwards by Mehrunes Dagon, but I mean the ruins under Mournhold, can't remember what they were called. Unless you mean the ruins were destroyed before Red Mountain, and then I don't know. But it is odd that there are little piles of dust everywhere with weapons and armour.

[ShoGun]

Seems like a mystery yet to be solved!
Scooby doo.. nvm..

Thx for the information
And I just found out that Dwe in the word Dwemer is "Short/Deep" Folk
So Deep Elves, or Short Elves.
And thereafter Short People, Dwarves.

[ShoGun]

Read this!
http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/nerevar_redmountain.shtml

Here it says everything about what the tools where for. And what Kagrenac was trying to do. And also how the Chimer became the Dunmer.

Read the lot of it

[Starcrunch]

This is one account. By no means is it true. The dissident preists really don't have any idea what happened at Red Mountain, the only thing about their ideas that should be accepted is that the Temple account is not the true (or at the very least whole)story...but this in no way means that their version is true, simply that their opponents version is not.

The place they are almost certainly least informed about is the goals and accomplishments of the Dwemer...and they have no way of knowing what happened to the Dwemer.

-Starcrunch

[ShoGun]

Well, I believe that story, until a better can be presented

Oh, and that thing with the Changed Ones/Elves (Chimer) and the tools have to be correct, since that is what turned them to Cursed Elves (Dunmer) when Azura got angry and punished them...

Greedy elves..

[Rian]

while on the subject of "dwemer dust" :

has anyone ever thought that there is no"dwemer dust" in the ruins around Vvardenfell because they have been heavily looted and disturbed in the several thousand years since the dwemer vanished?

also, if we go with the theory that the dwemer were "sent" somewhere, that dust would be their vaporised remains, or even better a peice of wherever they were sent. it's one of the base laws of physics that you cannot create matter without...something..., so in teleportain terms, if the dwemers bodies were sent to "x" then a peice of "x" would have to take thier place on Nirn. like i said, it's base physics.

[Anonymous]

Well if they were sent somewhere I would imagine that they would have created a vacuum where they were. Its more likely its the remains of their clothes and there are some very unhappy, naked Dwemer somewhere.

[Rian]

nope, the vacuum would have been filled with a bit of wherever they went. it's the first law of teleportation.

[ookami]

Is that 'first law' stated anywhere in TES lore? I'm willing to buy into the matter displacement theory, though, in this case. I don't think the Dwemer were actually destroyed. They might have been changed in a way that not even Yagrum would recognize them or they could be somewhere that can't even be detected. Shogun suggested that Azura was able to get ahold of them when Kagrenac was tampering with the heart that last time. That seems plausible.

[Anonymous]

nope, the vacuum would have been filled with a bit of wherever they went. it's the first law of teleportation.

I beg your pardon? Teleportation does not EXIST, so how can there be laws governing how it works! I mean I know there are laws for robotics but they are safety things not observations...this demands a google search!

*searches*

Nope. Not in the teleportation of any actual objects. Only in quantem teleportation which is basically when two particles spontaneously decide to swap places or something like that...and quantem teleportation laws rule out real teleportation. Aint that a bitch eh.

But basically teleportation does exist in TES so its a moot point but there are just no 'laws of teleportation' so we know nothing of the specifics.

[Rian]

pardon me: theorticle laws.

anyways, i'm going to leave this thread now, as it's getting too familiar to another one i had a while back...

[Silverwood]

Well, not to ruin anything here; but above someone said something about seeing Dwarves in Oblivion. I to thought that as a good connection, but Bestheda said something about not having almost anything to do with Morrowind. I'm not sure if that takes them out, saying there name played a role, but they themselves wern't really in the game.

[Rian]

but thier GHOSTS were. and then there was that dwemer that you could actually talk to underneath mournhold. and of course there were those massive ruins all over Vvardenfell. but NOOOOOOO, i guess that just means that the only contribution they made was their name?? i rest my case.[/i]

[ThreadWhisperer]

These are usually fun

My version of the Dwemer is arrived at from the basis of one of them NOT being affected by whatever happened to the rest since he was not in oblivion nor in the normal plane. In fact he was in an "Outer Realm" One not part of Oblivion nor of the normal plane.

What I think happened was that the tools began to work and Azura's curse to send them to Oblivion ALSO began to work and in the process they were scattered amoung the "Outer Realms" with no way of coming back due to not know which outer realm they were in. this helps explain why they could not be seen by Vivec in the natural plane or the plane of Oblivion. It also helps to explain why searching for the entire race on one plane or another would not be effective since the race was scattered between the two powers colliding and sent in "packets" or even individually into various outer realms, thus leaving no cluster of the race large enough to find in a search for their particular racial signature of energies.

This also opens up the ability to learn more about the Dwemer in upcoming TES games since to my knowlege they are a "running gag" of sorts through-out the TES series and not just Morrowind. So I think it is very possible that SOME Dwemer will be within the various realms of Oblivion perhaps serving as slaves to powerful enough Princes that found a straggler in some random outer realm and brought them to Oblivion. Dunno, but I am glad Bethesda never answers this question, I like contimplating various things regarding that poor group of misfortunates LOL

[Sload]

I hate to be a spoil sport, but this really isn't the place for such discussions. See Majra's "TIL lore belongs at TIL" post somewhere in this forum. This is for the creation of new lore for the project, not the discussion of things we already are given.