Heavily armed SWAT raid on peaceful party in Utah

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:07 am

I know this isn't in anyway related to TR, but I'm spreading the word about this disgusting violation of civil rights. There are several links to videos of the attack, and it was an attack, but this is by far the best:

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/200..._t.shtml#010655

This video isn't pretty. Its a group of cops armed with machine guns threating unarmed American citizens and beating those who did not comply with there orders fast enough, even the guy with the camera. They're also shrieking at everyone to "put the cameras away" I guess they were just shy Because after all, they're only looking out for our best interests by "preemtively" striking what was obviously a terrorist group in the making.

They're already trying to spin this as a legitimate drug bust. Watch the video. If that was legitimate, I'm very afraid for my country.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:38 am

link doesn't work. looks like "the man" is already stiffling word of what happened, lovely. And to think even conservative think-tanks are complaining police are too militarized and going just a little too far these days.

Just a friendly reminder, we shouldn't get into a political discussion in the lounge, or we'll wind up kissing it goodbye again.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:13 pm

This one should work:

http://homepage.mac.com/apexgrin/.Public/fascism.wmv

I am disgusted but somewhat unsurprised. :(

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:11 pm

um...yeah that was a regular party/concert thats typical of young people in america. *if* there was the slightest bit of illegal activity, which I doubt there was, there still was no need for all the military gear, simple uniformed street cops would have been sufficient. It was probably more like some crabby 80 year old complaining about noise.

Timito · Post by **Timito** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:18 pm

They're already trying to spin this as a legitimate drug bust. Watch the video. If that was legitimate, I'm very afraid for my country.

If that is a ligitimate drugs burst they should come over here, to one of our small outdoor parties! When I go back to school tomorrow there'll be ppl smoking pot outside the school. Holland's the largest producer of XTC. Drugs are common things on most parties in Holland, although the gov. tries to put a stop to it.
Compared to some Dutch parties (in the size of the drugsuse) that was just a teaparty.

link doesn't work. looks like "the man" is already stiffling word of what happened, lovely.

I think he's got enough critics on his slow response to Katrina. These things begin to happen more and more over here too. A couple of weeks ago a family was peacefully watching tv when a couple of swat guys purst in and trashed the house looking for terrorist clues.

Human rights are not to be messed with. No more on politics from me.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:56 pm

Hmm...
Is there any other info on this video? Personally, I am not too disturbed by it. I mean, let's face it, raves aren't exactly known for being drug-free. I didn't see anyone getting beaten either. I saw people being forced to the ground and handcuffed, but how do you know that they were not trying to resist the soldiers? Yeah, it seems overkill, but there had to be a reason for it. Shitty raves go on all the time in DC, with wanton drug use, and they never get shut down like that. The presence of soldiers rather than cops confuses me a little, and I won't try and make assumptions about the reason for that, but it still doesn't seem overly-barbaric to me.
Meh.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:42 pm

There's this:

Quill Rat · Post by **Quill Rat** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:17 am

Meh, there was a nationwide crackdown on drugs, meth labs, etc. So, one time in six hundred they messed up. Shit happens.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:50 am

I would tend to say that whether it was swat, soldiers, or police: if it was really drugs, then they did the smart thing. If no drugs, then that was just fucked up.

In many if not most instances I've heard of, people using drugs become more dangerous than a normal criminal. The drugs, often taken in absurd amounts, build up an adrenalline rush that makes them go wild. Most people don't go that far, but I've seen a few such cases on the news before.

Whether that happened here or not, it was wise for them to use force if drugs were involved. Again, if no drugs, then that was one FUBARed SNAFU.

As for "the man" and Katrina, I don't see how it's "the man"'s fault, since the mayor didn't do anything for the first two days.

I'm done.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:48 am

In many if not most instances I've heard of, people using drugs become more dangerous than a normal criminal. The drugs, often taken in absurd amounts, build up an adrenalline rush that makes them go wild. Most people don't go that far, but I've seen a few such cases on the news before.

This is nothing but generalised drivel.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:39 am

*sigh*
indoril, thats ONLY pcp that makes people act wild AND violent. ex makes you wild but happy and euphoric (hug everybody!), and marijuana makes you quite the opposite of energetic and violent.
I cant believe you ingest the bullshit bill o'reily feeds you through a goose-liver-enlarger.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:38 am

"the man" is simply the police and authority in general indoril.

Most narcotics mellow people out, its before they get their fix(or the money for it) that you have to be careful.

After the anesthesia I had to undergo lately at the doctor's, I'll never so much as consider taking anything illegal. my vision was like a TV with a bad refresh rate for the short time before i fell asleep and shortly after I woke up, and I was in a bizarre daze for an hour. Not pleasant at all. And PCP or one of those drugs was originally an elephant tranquilizer!

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:55 pm

Look, we all know that Indoril never ceases to amaze us with how little he really knows about the outside world, let's not fill a thread with it. I'm just curbing this behavior early on.
Quill Rat is right though, a few months ago the government launched a nation-wide sweep of gangs, specifically their drugs. I know that the Hell's Angels and MS-13 got hit really hard, and both are famous for producing and dealing cocaine and heroin. This rave could well have been identified as a drug hotspot.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:06 am

Would you rather the police made a mistake from time to time, or did nothing. The latter would leave America in tatters a lot quicker. I feel sorry for the police, nobody commends them when things go right, but when things go wrong everyone seems to jump at them.

In england, stop-and-search procedures in the streets are generally considered unpopular, but if I get searched, at least I know the police are doing their jobs, and there will hopefully be less drug-dealers on the streets.

As Quill Rat says: Shit Happens.

Graff.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:49 pm

Well they really should have all the narcotics they use illegal. Hey...if they want to screw up their lives and health so much, let them. Get rid of "protect people from their own stupidity" laws so our gene pool isn't weakened.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:54 pm

sirwootalot123 wrote:*sigh*
indoril, thats ONLY pcp that makes people act wild AND violent. ex makes you wild but happy and euphoric (hug everybody!), and marijuana makes you quite the opposite of energetic and violent.
I cant believe you ingest the bullshit bill o'reily feeds you through a goose-liver-enlarger.

Your probably right, I don't know to much about drugs. I'm just talking about what little I do know. On another note, I don't listed to Bill O'Reily. I think he's a grumpy old man. You should have said Shan Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, or Mike Savage.

Well they really should have all the narcotics they use illegal. Hey...if they want to screw up their lives and health so much, let them. Get rid of "protect people from their own stupidity" laws so our gene pool isn't weakened.

On that I can say this: Those people who screw themselves up (even on purpose) in America get Medicare and possibly (thought not always) Welfare from the government. If we let them screw themselves up, then more money needs to be spent on them.

And in response to Dexter, It's not that I'm sheltered, it's that I'm opinionated and I know you don't like that.

Now, I must return to my alcove of unenlightened red-neck conservativism.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:49 am

If you want to be taken seriously this time, go and do some modding.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:17 am

I actually am. I haven't been able to in the past months because my schedule was tight. I have two claims now and I'm working on them. That wasn't even the issue here. But nevermind. Pretend I didn't even walk in on this thread.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:18 am

Ok, I know that double posting is evil, but I'm doing it to imply that this is a later and seperate thought.

I should clarify what I said. Yes, I no diddly-squaut about drugs, and so I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth. For that I appologize. My comment towards Dexter was not meant in disrespect either, nor was that last post towards you Vernon. I was just starting to get defensive again as I alway do. Sorry.

Carry on now. Pretend I wasn't here.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:56 am

Eraser wrote:Well they really should have all the narcotics they use illegal. Hey...if they want to screw up their lives and health so much, let them. Get rid of "protect people from their own stupidity" laws so our gene pool isn't weakened.

I think that legalizing some drugs, and having the government tax them, would be an awesome idea. If the government made marijuana, and possibly LSD and other light drugs legal, we could get some great tax cuts. Also, it would do wonders to reduce crime in urban areas.
Now, an interesting thing to consider is that alcoholism is classified as a disease by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the World Health Organization and the American College of Physicians. When the acceptance of alcoholism as a disease becomes universal in America (it is becoming more universal, as more and more groups come to define it as a disease over time), it will have to be covered under medicare.
Now, to look at this even further. Alcoholism is defined as the dependency on alcohol. So what makes a drunk any different from a crackhead? They both suffer from substance-based addiction. In the Netherlands, drug addiction is covered under medicare. They see drug abuse as an epidemic, and supply clean needles to addicts. It is an interesting tactic, but it works, as the Netherlands has a shockingly low number of heavy drug addicts.

Side note:
Indoril, I don't dislike you because you are opinionated. I dislike you because it is abundantly clear that you have had your opinions chosen for you, instead of thinking for yourself and forming your own opinions.

ookami · Post by **ookami** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:53 am

It really doesn't have to do much with public safety. Alcohol is, apparently, simply easier to regulate than something like crack. If it's easy to regulate, the government gets their taxes. The government is thus made happy and could care less if you kill yourself with alcohol.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:47 pm

as is the case with many. They are simply taught to believe a certain viewpoint without really looking at something and forming their own belief.

We've seen the effects of making alcohol legal and illegal, and the same observations can be applied to all drugs. When illegal, there's no control whatsoever over its distribution, the actual substance tends to be more dangerous because of its illegal making, and more people use it.

Very right dexter, legalize alot of drugs, then the government can tax the shit out of it and lower taxes for regular people without the "elite" bitching about having to pay 1% more of their multimillion dollar income to the gov.
And it can all be regulated as to where they can be bought, and what goes into making them ie preventing them from being laced with other chemicals to make them stronger and more addicting. The drug cartels become obsolete and powerless, street crime will decrease and Colombia would finally have legal cash crops that actually turn a profit, improving their economy and standard of living!

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:27 am

I completely adgree with Dexter. I never saw any reason why tobacco and alcohol (especially the latter, which causes agression in a way neither X nor dope does, and claims more dead than all other drugs combined) were to be legal and dope, X or even coke weren't. Besides, if government-controlled, those drugs are hardly as bad quality as the shit sold on the streets, making for healthier (and thus, less unpleasant) junkies. Besides, if the state can fund special forces to take out any party where they *think* there might be a junky, I'm pretty sure those funds can be used to treat junkies as sick, too. Actually, it might even cost less.

Now, what precisely is to be legalised is, of course, disputable. Dope and X being the minimum, methinks. Hey, you can get high on codeine and other freely available medication, too. You can get high sniffing glue. What to do about that, ban medication and glue? Carpet-bomb home improvement stores and arrest all pharmacy employees at gunpoint? Get used to it, some people just need to blow their brains out. It's even known among animals. It's a fact of life, and no amount of armed men will stop it from happening anyway.

It is, of course, neither butch nor does it involve flashy special forces heroes taking out one or another bunch of "evildoers". But you know what?

It works.