Argonian Skull

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:15 am

Retexture/edit of an Argonian Head, with horns. I haven't made an inventory pic yet, and the .dds had trouble loading in the CS, so I've included the .dds version of the texture and the .tga...

This could be static or a misc item...

Pic:
[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/ArgonianSkull.jpg[/img]

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:37 am

38 views, 1 download, 0 replys. I think that deserves a bump.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:51 am

Don't like the color, not 'bone' enough. About the horns, would those fall off? (For instance, do deer antlers fall off during decay? Other animals'?)

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:02 am

Hmm... that's a good point about the horns. I'm not certain. I know that deer antlers fall off every season, but I've also seen deer antlers attached to deer skulls, though that could have been done post-death... and, even given that, I wouldn't know if Argonian horns are different from deer antlers...

And when you say not "bone" enough, you mean it needs to be whiter, right? or grayer? greyer? More off-white? more cracked? more broken? more decayed? more holey? more gnawed upon by the ravenous creatures that killed this poor Argonian in the first place?

[Edit]Hmm... thinking about the horns, it might just be better to leave them off altogether anyways, as there are those different types of "hair" (horns) and seeing the same style on every skull wouldn't make sense, and therefore I'd have to redo the skull with different "hair," not to mention the horn on his nose...[/Edit]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:38 am

Try looking at the Trollbone helm for more inspiration on how to make it look more 'boney'

. Argonian skulls will be good for the Dres planations on map 6.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:40 am

Ah, that is much more explanatory, Morden. I've now redone the texture, and am working on getting the skinning to look better. I must now admit, the first version sucked gerbil teeth. (I much perfer the redone version.) If I could get into Photobucket, I'd upload a WIP pic, but my internet is acting screwy again, me thinks... hmm... I could post it here... That'll work.

[Edit]Yep, thought that would work. Unplugged and replugged my cable, and got into PhotoBucket (as well as a host of other sites) just fine. Anyone know why??[/Edit]

Pic:

[img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/ArgonianSkullReText.jpg[/img]

ThorFluff · Post by **ThorFluff** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:59 am

Sweet!
by the way, yes the horn sould probably fall off, imagine haveing your horn stuck to your cranium (one hard hit on the horns and your skull splits in two, ouch)
awesome work really!

Arondil Rethan · Post by **Arondil Rethan** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:03 am

Are they really horns? I've considered them more as ears. Of course few heads have bare horns, but then others have that strange thing (I don't know, how to name it), which look like ears. So are they horns or are they earbones?

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:26 am

I know what you're talking about, Arondil, and I would have to say that those resemble ears more than horns, though all the others are definately horns, as far as I can tell.

The current version of this has no horns at all, and I've resolved some texture issues. But its 2 here, and I'm too sleepy to upload even a pic...

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:27 am

Some argonians have horns, some have scaly frills, etc. It gives them a kinda cretacean look, likening them to dinosaurs (see triceratops) more than to the modern reptiles.

Though they're cold-blooded and dinosaurs probably weren't.

DMKW · Post by **DMKW** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:43 pm

i personally like it better with the horns

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:41 pm

DMKW wrote:i personally like it better with the horns

How do you know? you've not seen it yet.
Pic:

[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/ViewsofSkull.jpg][img]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/ViewsofSkull.jpg[/img][/url]

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:03 pm

It seems I've gotten nowhere with trying to make the textures work in the CS. The blasted thing is still stark white.
Before you suggest it, the texture size is the same size as the one used for the Argonian head that I based it off of. I also saved the texture as a .dds, but Niftexture won't let me change the texture file.

If anyone can help, I'd much appreciate it.

Here it is, though I didn't package them correctly; they will be all together when unrarred...

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:35 pm

Here's a fix, but for some reason it still gives a string error.

<outdated attachment>

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:46 pm

When I tried it in the CS, it stated that the texture filename was too long.

viKING · Post by **viKING** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:06 pm

It looks great! But didn't barabus make beast skulls for tr?
http://www.freewebs.com/barabus/morrowindmiscellanea.htm

Personally, I like your texture better, but he got a new mesh.

I don't know wich one's best... I like them both.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:01 am

May I suggest this one to be used in Argon jungle (as a more "fresh" version with signs of flesh on it etc.) and Barabus's one (if I ever get to adding it to OoT) - as a "polished" version of the skull.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:03 pm

That could work. The one in the barabus pic *looks* kinda high poly, though, and hollowed out...

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:09 pm

I think it looses the argonian look without SOMETHING sticking out of its head.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:19 pm

Well... that's what the dark brown spots are for (marks where horns used to be) but beyond that, I don't know.

Perhaps making a small crater that sticks up around the dark spots would be good?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:23 pm

But when I think of an Argonian head, I think of that shape head with big ears or horns or something coming out of it. Realistic or not, I think it would look ten times more Argonian (Morrowind style) if you included horns. *shrugs*

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:30 pm

Well, I'll admit part of me misses the horns too.

I suppose it wouldn't be too much work to make three different kinds: one without horns, one with the large ram-like horns, and one with the horns pictured in the old version, and maybe even another.
Of course, this is assuming we get past the current issues of the texture working in the CS...

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 7:18 pm

I'm going to say something really, really stupid (but that's because, while waiting to see whether my first claim got the OK or not, I've been working on modifying the Firemoth Plugin, in which both the original developer and myself have "cheated" a bit to clad skeleton containers with armor).

What if you make a static version of the hornless head.

And then you make a new mesh, that no doubt will be rather simple, that contains *just* the horns. That's it, two separated cones, and that's all. Put the center of gravity so that when it has the same coordinate (pos and angle) as the skull, it looks attached.

As an added bonus of this version, in a rainy day, when you're bored, you could make other horn sets for your argonian skull... Since there are a lot of hornstyles for argonians. Plus they would also be compatible with a retexture of your own skull (so you could make an older, "cleaner" version of the texture, that way the Barabus mesh wouldn't have to be used.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:53 pm

Well... that's not that bad of an idea, I suppose. Though I would still want at least one form of Argonian Skull to be a misc item.

The hornstyles would be directly imported from the CSCD, and thus would only require a retexture. When I started this, I imported an argonian head into Milkshape, and then the horns, and, even before I moved them just a little bit, they looked like they fit just fine.

I wonder, though, if it wouldn't just be simpler to have different skulls...hmm... how about I break it down and analyse it a little...

Plan A (as suggested by PoHa!):

Make a hornless skull, and a few with horns, at least one, and possibly all, of which is/are a misc item.

Objects: At least 4.
Useability: Whomever wants to use a certain skull with certain horns will have to look for it within the CS. Each of these models will take up more space because every skull is a complete model (with horns), and there is no piecing together.

Plan B (As suggested by Gez):

Make a hornless skull as a misc item and/or a static, and then make the horns as a individual statics/misc items.

Objects: At least 6
Useability: Whomever wants to use a certain skull with certain horns places the hornless skull, then has to find those horns, and place them in the same place. These models will take up less space because every possible skull is not a complete model, and there will be extra work for the CS user.

Either way seems feasible to me, actually. So, I'm open to discussion about it.

Arondil Rethan · Post by **Arondil Rethan** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:01 am

PoHa! wrote:When I tried it in the CS, it stated that the texture filename was too long.

I have got same problem. When I tried to add a new mesh file in some of my plug-ins, it stated, that filename is too long. I tried to shorten the filename, but then it either stated the too long filename again or then it completely messed up with textures. I realized this problem at first time, when I did a flag for my world replacing the original Imperial banner's dragon with my version. It showed only a white rectangle. It's eiter, there is a bug in the system or I can't replace textures correctly. Even it's offtopic here, could someone PM me an instructions to replace textures, please?

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:38 pm

There's a 32-char max on the filename of textures and meshes. :) Stupidly enough, I went over 32 characters with PoHa's mesh, but hey, here's the fix. :P Hope it is what you wanted.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:14 pm

Does the texture work for you in the CS? There's no error message, but I still get an untextured model. Niftexture threw an error too, then closed down.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:37 am

How odd. What the hell is going on with this mesh?

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:01 am

Maybe its possessed?

I remember (or seem to remember) loading the first rendition of this skull (the one with the not so great texture) in the CS, but I didn't do anything different, I don't think... besides having a better texture, that is...

Perhaps there's a clue hidden in the old mesh somewhere... (I believe I still have it) I'll look at it soon, and report.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:11 pm

Gasp!

I do believe the mesh to be possessed...

I couldn't remember which mesh was the one that had the old texture applied (I have several versions of this mesh in my folder), so I started going through the list, with the preview window open, and loading different mesh files into the same id...

Imagine my shock when suddenly the good texture suddenly appeared, applied to the mesh that I just loaded. Now imagine my surprise when a second mesh did the same. Now imagine my deep sorrow as I discovered that in the render window, these meshes still appeared white, and, if I highlighted something else with the preview window open, and then switched back to either of those that had the good texture, they appeared white as well...

I don't know what all this means, but that's what I found out, in any case.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:24 pm

As a hunter, I can say that deer shed their antlers in the early winter of every year by rubbing them against trees until they fall off. They do this by force, but if left alone, a deer skull can last for years with the antlers intact. Often small critters such as chipmunks and squirrels will eat the antlers of of deer carcasses because they are high in protein, so maybe if you put little nibble marks and pitted spots, it would be more realistic. I really love this though, dark brotherhood assassins could collect the skulls of their victims and keep them in their homes. We already have origional skulls, maybe if you made kahjiit and orc ones there could be a set. Nice work.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:52 pm

Morgoth wrote:As a hunter, I can say that deer shed their antlers in the early winter of every year by rubbing them against trees until they fall off. They do this by force, but if left alone, a deer skull can last for years with the antlers intact. ...

Hmm, not being a hunter, I didn't know that. So, in all likelyhood, I'll be changing the texture again, as the dark marks on the top of the skull were to represent where the horns were...

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:11 pm

This is an amphibian not a mammal. You cant assume that since deer lose their antlers that an argonian would lose its horns.

Vrenir · Post by **Vrenir** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:19 pm

Deer have antlers, not horns. Antlers are shed annually and grow back. I believe that they are composed of bone and, at least when they are growing, are covered with a thin layer of blood-vessel-laden fur. Horns, on the other hand, are permanent fixtures of a creature once grown, and are composed of two layers. The outer is a hard covering and the inner once again I believe to be bone. Thus, when a creature with antlers dies, the antlers, being disjointed from the rest of the skull as seperate bones, fall off. In animals with horns, the outer layer may fall off when it is no longer rooted to the inner by tissue, but the inner part (a protrusion of the skull) remains. A hunter or naturalist may correct me, but I find it odd that people keep talking about antlers when the Argonians clearly do not have them.

Vrenir · Post by **Vrenir** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:20 pm

Deer have antlers, not horns. Antlers are shed annually and grow back. I believe that they are composed of bone and, at least when they are growing, are covered with a thin layer of blood-vessel-laden fur. Horns, on the other hand, are permanent fixtures of a creature once grown, and are composed of two layers. The outer is a hard covering and the inner once again I believe to be bone. Thus, when a creature with antlers dies, the antlers, being disjointed from the rest of the skull as seperate bones, fall off. In animals with horns, the outer layer may fall off when it is no longer rooted to the inner by tissue, but the inner part (a protrusion of the skull) remains. A hunter or naturalist may correct me, but I find it odd that people keep talking about antlers when the Argonians clearly do not have them.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:27 pm

Oy! Yes, that all makes sense, too...

Alright... okay... I think I have it figured out now.

Regardless of whether or not Argonians have antlers, horns, ears, or just plastic sporks growing from their head, there's still going to be more than just one skull.

1.)There will be the current one, with no horns. (Even if they don't fall off, they could have been removed for someone's collection. HEY! Now there's an idea...)
2.)There will be one for each of the other horn styles, or at least one for a few of the horn styles. (Even if they do fall off, they could have been easily reattached for display)
3.)The frilly types (there's two of them) which kinda look like ears, are definately horns, with what appears to be a membrane attached between them. The Argonian ear is on the head, and is portrayed as a black dot behind the eyes a ways.

Okay... now that that's cleared up, there's still the major issue of getting the textures to work in the CS. I've still been unable to get it to show up right, and any ideas/fixes are welcome.