Dark Brotherhood

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:13 pm

Anyone know if someone is working on this?
If not I whould like to make this fraction joinable. I need a Interior in bouth Black Light and Old Ebonheart.
And I'll make good use of a trap door in 2-15 and the rouge camp in the Kragenmoor claim.
That whould make 5 locations whit mournhold.
I'll check up on lore and in-game things. (since I killed all of them on my good save, I think I need to go trough it again)
Since we're not going to change npc's in the bethesda game, it whould probobly mean a head quarter of some sort.

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:24 pm

no one is working on it.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:29 pm

i just posted this in the other thread that you mentioned this in, where you asked if anyone was interested in helping, but i didn't see this thread.

// i would be happy to offer my feeble talents towards making the dark brotherhood joinable. the issues that would need to be dealt with first would be:
// how do they react with tribunal installed if you join them?
// what if you have already cleaned out their lair in tribunal?
// how do they react to your membership in opposing guilds (Morag Tong obviously and Thieves Guild as well -- since Dark Brotherhood is a subset of Camonna Tong)?
// Are they like most guilds or like the great houses (membership must be exclusive)?

// Just puttin it out there.
// In case your wondering, my idea for dealing with this is rather counter-intuitive: perhaps you HAVE to have killed at least one of them (and wear their armor) to join. Dark Brotherhood armor could be scripted (like bal molagmer gloves/imperial armor) and joining could require you wearing it (just like the said imperial/bal molagmer).

Rodan · Post by **Rodan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:27 pm

Seran, if you want an interior in Black Light, you can use the Rusty Cutlass basement (it was going to be modified for a Thieves Guild but I think a Dark Brotherhood faction would be much better)

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:51 pm

Does this mean we got the fraction?

Rodan: You have a interior list/map I can work from.
Never Really been in BL that much.

Gargamonk: I'll open a tread in Open Projects, Called Dark Brotherhood. We can continue there.

Rodan · Post by **Rodan** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:54 pm

I would say to start the work, it can be one of the first topics in the new quest forum for discussion. The tavern is in (-20,11) near the front gates. When you enter the city it's the first building on the right. But the interior maps are on my site.

Cep · Post by **Cep** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:54 pm

Thing is you end up killing the DB if you have Tribunal installed, and well you need that to run TR right so the other thing is the rules that say we can not alter the original work.

So how would you fix the storyline to allow DB to accept you? It seems rather inplausable that you would go round killing loads of them and then they would let you join them elsewhere.

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:28 pm

Actually.. This will mean you can't join until you complete tribunal. Or get it started..

Rodan: when will you have the new tread up?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:33 pm

maybe because in tribunal you get rid of the dark brotherhood,later on in tamriel at a certain point you would hear about a new cult called the neo brother hood.

you are sent to in invesstigate by the emperor because of your history with the brotherhood so you can now either join them or fight them.
its a smart way to get around the problem of the dark brotherhood being killed.

paul

'dont live just try to survive'

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:02 pm

I don't belive the fraction dies becus the pc killed everyone in the Mournhold fraction.

Skurvy · Post by **Skurvy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:03 pm

If you want to work it this way, i dont think there is any problem just calling them the Dark Brotherhood, no new names please - factions die down and re-emerge all the time.

By the way - you actually kill off the most important member of the DB during Morrowind, not Tribunal - if you are in the Morag Tong you get a mission to kill the Night Mother at Bal Ur, who is the highest ranking person in the guild. The guy you kill in Tribunal is just a high ranking member, and i doubt that by killing off a few members in Tribunal you would be wiping out the Guild anyway

.

Skurvy

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:36 pm

Can't remember ever killing the night mother.
And I'm grand master. For a couple of times now.
Killing the night mother whouldn't really disolve DH either. The a new one whould come up. And I have a hard time belining the night mother whould be in morrowind. Well.. Not that hard. But still. <- kinda destroyed my own point there.

[url]http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/mwbooks/brothers_of_darkness.shtml[/url]

Skurvy · Post by **Skurvy** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:05 pm

It is the last of the Grandmaster's 'special' quests - the Night Mother is on Vvardenfell on important business (actually, i kind of got the idea she had been contacted by Orvas Dren to kill his brother the Duke) -> if you read the 2920 Series the Night Mother is actually based in Morrowind (at Tel Aruhn if i remember correctly) but a lot has happened since then, so its hard to tell where their main base could be - i always thought that they were an Imperial guild

Edit: The Night Mother, Severa Magia, is actually located at Ald Sotha, not Bal Ur as i said earlier. Incidentally, the title of the Dark Brotherhood leader is always Night MOTHER, whether the leader is male or female.

Skurvy

wererat · Post by **wererat** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:24 pm

since the DB stretches all across tamriel killing a few members in tribunal wouldnt really affect the guild as much. i would think you would have to make amends or something before you can join if you've completed Tribunal or maybe youre not allowed to join at all . . .

Seran · Post by **Seran** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:12 am

Ever noticed you can join every guild even if you have cut of the head on the grand master?

Rodan · Post by **Rodan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:57 am

The new forum topics will be made this weekend. We can just move the thread. You can start it at the Open Project forum if you want, Seran.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:32 am

The dark brotherhood isn't part of or connected to the cammona tong, and in tribunal, you only wipe out the group based in mournhold, not the entire faction. The entire faction is actually an offshoot of the morag tong and is much older and operates all over Tamriel

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:44 am

I thought Morag Tong came from the dark brotherhood? <Quickly goes to look it up>

Ok, so they did come from the Morag Tong

eug1404 · Post by **eug1404** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:48 am

They could believe that you are a high risk to their organisation after you kill off the tribunal branch:

"Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer"

So they would offer you a position in their guild to check your loyalties, and if you prove loyal to them you are part of them just like any other guild.

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:03 pm

I'm strongly against having the DB joinable in Morrowind. They shouldn't simply don't have an organisation running there. A few small groups here and there for spying and recon purposes can fit, but certainly not whole guilds.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:09 pm

I agree with Kothloth.

But you could just take away the restriction on killing fellow faction members. The Morag Tong are supposed to be the honorable assassins. The Brotherhood is supposed to be greedy.

"Oh, you killed Dave? Well, that's one way to get ahead, I suppose. Still, unless you kill more marks - or do more 'accounting', that is - you won't rise in rank."

Garret Strife · Post by **Garret Strife** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:52 am

in a way he's right because not much DB are needed in morrowind as morag tong takes care of most assassinations but it dosnt mean there are no DB members there's so many reasons why they could be in morrowind like for ex.

a DB member has been sent to morrowind as a regular common and eventually joins morag tong he/she could be spy so DB knows what morag tong is doing

another reason could be some rich noble hired a good DB assassin because the morag tong do it too publicly and emperor has to know about it, hires DB assassin and kills target and no one ever knows what happens to victim

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:12 am

Severia Magia could be an imposter/stunt double to the true Night Mother. As for Mournhold, the Dark Brotherhood Quests could include reestablishing power in the city/area.

I like Garret's idea for "dark alley" assassinations; that would make sense.

Also, membership could be limited to those NOT in the Morag Tong (even though those quests are a lot of fun); the Dark Brotherhood would simply replace them.

Stayce · Post by **Stayce** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:46 pm

Why can't the ideas presented in daggerfall be true here? As I believe has already been stated in this thread, the Dark Brotherhood are decidedly mercenary organisation when compared to the Morag Tong, taking on any job if the pay is high enough. Honour and loyalty does not factor into it. This could be used to explain why the Brotherhood attack you even if you are a member. They'll even kill their own if the price is right.

To get around the problem of killing a whole faction in Tribunal, you could use another aspect from Daggerfall, the invitation system. As far as I know, in Daggerfall I have only been able to join the Brotherhood when invited by them (if indeed the assassins guild in that game is the Brotherhood). Following your destruction of the faction, a high ranking member of the Brotherhood could be sent to find you. He would be carrying instructions to invite your to join the Brotherhood. You have afterall proved yourself to be a highly efficient killer. Should you refuse this offer, he is also instructed to kill you.

Invitations could also be extended from lesser guild members following certain kill counts of NPC's by the player, allowing you to join the Brotherhood at earlier stages.

While I admit that this doesn't really solve any of the major problems with a joinable Dark Brotherhood faction, I do think there are some interesting aspects to the Brotherhood's behaviour might be being overlooked.

How all this would work with regards to

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:30 am

Regardless of a few DB in Morrowind the faction is out of morrowind (Previously forced out). The only way to put it in is to say they are starting a new guild hall in morrowind and I don't like that idea. Personally I say leave the DB till another province.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:55 am

I think that the use of the Dark Brotherhood in Tribunal is evidence that the attempt to force them out of Morrowind may have failed. They are at least available for hire in Morrowind, and they occupy a number of the Daedric sites in Vvardenfell. Who knows, they may have formed a base somewhere on the mainland.

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:51 am

They were accepted by the king of morrowind to assassinate you which was why there presence was in tribunal and there are several spies in the general area. Could they have a base. Possibly although I doubt it. If there is a compelling enough story as why they are here then ok but if not then I don't like the idea.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:29 am

The story in Vvardenfell goes that the Dark Brotherhood was setting up small bases around the island to prepare to destroy the Morag Tong. In collecting the Threads of the Webspinner, the PC ends up finding and destroying most of them. The Night Mother herself came to Morrowind (Ald Sotha), and you eventually kill her. Considering that the island was threatened, the mainland probably is as well. I'm not sure that I want a large Dark Brotherhood presence either, but the game insinuates that there might be one.

Tamriel Rebuilt

Dark Brotherhood

Dark Brotherhood

neo brotherhood