Upsilon's concept art

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:15 am

I feel like creating the Adamantine Tower. I've done a few pictures... They are very simple models untextured but don't worry, I'll fix it if you like the concept. Talking of the concept, I see the Adamantine Tower is elegant, simple, very, very high and inspiring respect. The images give an idea of what it will look, finished. As always, I require honest comments. (Bu the way, my new avatar is the coolest ever!)

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9016/adtower6vc.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6797/adtower27al.jpg[/img][/url]

Thanks,

UPS

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:16 am

I'm interested to see where your design goes. And don't worry about the details. It's my experience that a concept doesn't really become what it needs to be until around the 10th or 12th design, so detailing it out now would be a waste of time on your part. Wait until your 8th concept.

That said, I do have a few requests.

1- show us something that gives us a size comparison. Something that we already have a pretty good notion of it's size. Like a tree, or a ship.

2- While I'm usually a big fan of a dramatic worm's eye view perspective that utilizes dynamic forshortening, I'm afraid that the second pic does nothing to show your concept. It's a neat pic, but we can't really build anything with it.

It's a good start, though. Can't wait to see your next phase.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:09 pm

It looks alright. It's very simple. I always thought of the tower as elaborate, with thousands of layers of overlapping stone all the way up. I'm not really sure where the Adamentine tower is (C, but I don't think were remotly close to even starting concepting for it. Also, most concepts are done on paper or another 2d surface. Once the origional concept is finished, the modellers usually flesh it out with 3d and texturing. It's nice work though, maybe this would go for some other tower. Also, Dax, I don't know what your talking about. Many people that have good enough artistic abilities only have to do one concept before it's perfect. Sometimes two. If you have to do 10 or 12, thats pretty bad. Concept art isn't about getting into huge amounts of detail, or redrawing over and over. It's generally about getting your point or ideas across to the moddellers so that they can get their job done. Many times some really great 3d stuff will come out of the worst concepts. Artists commonly draw rough sketches. Aiming for a materpeice just isn't worth the time, because when you finally finish, some other guy might have taken two hours to come up with the same thing in less detail, and it's already been modeled from thatinstead of yours. Ten or twelve drafts of a single piece of artwork is stupid.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:28 pm

Also, most concepts are done on paper or another 2d surface. Once the origional concept is finished, the modellers usually flesh it out with 3d and texturing.

I know, I know. And that's what I did, only, I don't have a scanner... Also, thanks for the comments, a newer version will come as soon as I have the time to create it. I'll try to use your ideas guys...

For the scale, look at the following picture:
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7289/adtowerscalecopie9oq.png[/img][/url]

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:40 pm

No prob, alot of us don't have scanners. I do (did) but it's broken down... And I noticed that in your second pic, the camera is actually just under that arched doorway that you explained in your last post. I look forward to your next version.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:13 pm

arched door about 3 times human size
little dot in the middle of the box

HOLY CRAP THAT IS HUGE!!!

I never made it out of the starting dungeon on arena so I am not an expert or anything, but isn't that just a LITTLE too big! That would take forever to load on slower computers, almost as long as it would take to hit the ground if you fell off the top! Keep in mind I am not an expert (I don't even know where this is supposed to go) and for all I know that might be the right size but still!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:17 pm

Well it needn't be circular. Up close it could be in fact composed of straight bits which from a distance give the illusion of a circle. The texture would have to be done in a way to make this look intentional though.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:39 pm

I remember reading that the Direnni Tower was about 400-700 feet tall. I think it was the Pocket Guide.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:15 am

I've found some text regarding the Admantine Tower...

The Dawn Era
During this time The Cosmos is formed from the Aurbis [chaos, or totality] by Anu and Padomay. Akatosh (Auriel) forms and Time starts. Gods (et'Ada) form. Lorkhan convinces/tricks the Gods to create the mortal plane, Nirn. The mortal plane is highly magical and dangerous. As the Gods walk, its physical make-up and even time itself becomes unstable. When Magic (Magnus), architect of the plans for the mortal world, decides to terminate this project, the Gods convene at the Adamantine Tower [Direnni Tower, the oldest known structure in Tamriel] and decide what to do. Most leave when Magic does. Others sacrifice themselves into other forms to Stay (the Ehlnofey). In most accounts, Lorkhan is condemned to exile in the mortal realms, and his heart is torn out and cast from the Tower. Where it lands a Volcano forms. With Magic (in the Mythic Sense) gone, the Cosmos stabilizes. Elven history, finally linear, begins (ME2500).

Ah, and also, i've made the second concept of the Adamamtium Tower. In version 2:

The tower is shorter,
Details were added on the front of the tower,
Details were added on the top of the tower,
Tower have a more menacing look.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5224/ad210mm.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7411/ad229fj.jpg[/img][/url]
Thanks.

UPS

Arondil Rethan · Post by **Arondil Rethan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:25 am

Oh - my - Mehrunes Dagon!

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:46 pm

Hey! That's more like it! Very nice work.

Arondil Rethan · Post by **Arondil Rethan** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:02 pm

Wouldn't this be a worthy mesh, if TR makes Cyrodiil?

Post by **Swiftoak** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:13 pm

Duh.

Oh, and if you fell off this tower, would you die?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:34 pm

Arondil Rethan wrote:Wouldn't this be a worthy mesh, if TR makes Cyrodiil?

The adamantine tower is in High Rock, some island beginning with B.

ookami · Post by **ookami** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:29 pm

Considering that it is described as being 'hundreds of feet' tall, I'd have to predict that it would be a lethal fall from the top of the tower (if you didn't manage to save yourself with a spell or something).

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:33 pm

Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote: Oh, and if you fell off this tower, would you die?

Slowfall 120 secs on Self...Then jump off

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:45 pm

I love the model... Elegant and refined. It looks like it was done in Cinema 4D, was it? I have to say though, it would surely bring even the most powerful of next-gen engines and computers to their knees. I don't know how many polys it has, but it looks upwards of 300,000 at least. This is just a concept though, right?

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:53 pm

Good guess Vernon. It was done in Cinema 4D but it (only) has 60 000 polygons in version 3, which is coming really, really soon.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:55 pm

Admantine Tower Version 3

In Version 3:

The entrance at the top of the tower was remodeled. Errors were removed.
Details were added at the front of the tower
Details were added at the top of the tower
Entrance at the bottom of the tower has been placed in front of the tower
Tower has now a more gracious look as well as a bit more menacing look.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6668/ad310db.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/8845/ad324tz.jpg[/img][/url]

Thanks again,

UPS

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:12 pm

It's impressive work, anyway.

But 60'000? I was way off. :P If you're giving that in quads, yes that's 60'000, but in game engine terms, that's 120'000 faces (tris). Still an engine choker. :)

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 pm

Absolutly beautiful! I think Vernon has compitition

.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:01 pm

Morgoth wrote:
Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote: Oh, and if you fell off this tower, would you die?
Slowfall 120 secs on Self...Then jump off

It takes 2 whole rl min to fall!!

Wow that must be tall.

Your meshes teh roxor! Can't wait for teh textures.

Odowacar · Post by **Odowacar** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:40 pm

Very cool. Very tall.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:53 pm

I have 3ds max. Milkshape looks like it has much better renders, and everything looks so smooth. Is that possible?

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:42 pm

If you are asking me if I know if Milkshape does better renders than 3ds Max, I don't have a clue. I'm using Cinema 4D, in which you have a "Advanced Render" plug-in, that allows you to render you image with Caustics, Highlights and Radiosity. I've used radiosity for my images.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:45 pm

Morgoth wrote:I have 3ds max. Milkshape looks like it has much better renders, and everything looks so smooth. Is that possible?

You'll get better renders with 3ds max, because Milkshape doesn't have a renderer. :P Take a low-poly mesh, hit meshsmooth and you'll get quadrupled faces and a much smoother and often better looking model. This mesh has more faces than the city of Vivec, so is unfeasible as a realtime model. It could be done with parallax maps or relief maps, of course, and this will be supported in Oblivion with parallax mapping. :)

kingfish · Post by **kingfish** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:22 pm

looks great, but the design is way too LOTR-ish imo...

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:06 pm

Vernon wrote:
Morgoth wrote:I have 3ds max. Milkshape looks like it has much better renders, and everything looks so smooth. Is that possible?

You'll get better renders with 3ds max, because Milkshape doesn't have a renderer. Take a low-poly mesh, hit meshsmooth and you'll get quadrupled faces and a much smoother and often better looking model. This mesh has more faces than the city of Vivec, so is unfeasible as a realtime model. It could be done with parallax maps or relief maps, of course, and this will be supported in Oblivion with parallax mapping.

Uum... I guess he wasn't using milkshape

. Cinema 4d? Whatever that is, the renders look so perfect. I was just thinking the same thing about the amount of faces.

Arondil Rethan · Post by **Arondil Rethan** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:08 pm

Jale wrote:
Arondil Rethan wrote:Wouldn't this be a worthy mesh, if TR makes Cyrodiil?
The adamantine tower is in High Rock, some island beginning with B.

Whoops... I always thought, Adamantine Tower is in Cyrodiil...
well... accidents happen.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:41 pm

Nah theres a big tower in the middle of Cyrodiil City but the Adamantine Tower, the oldest known building on Nirn, is in High Rock

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:23 pm

Arondil Rethan wrote: Whoops... I always thought, Adamantine Tower is in Cyrodiil...
well... accidents happen.

The tower seen in the Oblivion trailer is the White-Gold Tower. Easy mixup, dont worry.

The Adamantine Tower is located on the Isle of Balfiera.

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:21 am

That looks really good! To take away the LOTR look; if this would still work with the description; Maybe banners near the doorframe area. With those around it, it could maybe pull the LOTR thot away.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:29 pm

What do you mean, what banners? I'm sorry but I think I don't understand what you meant by banners.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:35 pm

Well at the moment it looks a lot like the towers seen in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films. Those towers didnt really have many banners.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:52 pm

Well at the moment it looks a lot like the towers seen in Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films. Those towers didnt really have many banners.

Yes, I know I know, and I want to change that. Only I don't understand what you mean by banners. What do you want me to change?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:38 pm

he probably meant flags, which would quite likely be a separate mesh. I do think it is leaning a bit too far towards the LotR style. I'll try and get a screenie of the old one.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:24 pm

this is a great mesh if only you could get the faces down.
this is what slows the engine down right.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:34 pm

One problem...here is a description from TIL:

'Although it has been much modified and added on to over the years, its core is a smooth cylinder of shining metal; the Tower is believed to extend at least as far beneath the surface as is now visible above, although its deepest bowels have never been systematically explored.'

Now you started off fairly cylindrical but have been mocing away from that.

Upsilon · Post by **Upsilon** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:00 pm

this is a great mesh if only you could get the faces down.
this is what slows the engine down right.

There's no way THIS mesh will be in the game. It's only for visualizing. I might do another mesh for the game, but it'll be a low-poly one, of course.

One problem...here is a description from TIL:

'Although it has been much modified and added on to over the years, its core is a smooth cylinder of shining metal; the Tower is believed to extend at least as far beneath the surface as is now visible above, although its deepest bowels have never been systematically explored.'

Now you started off fairly cylindrical but have been mocing away from that.

Thanks a lot on that Jale, I'll try to do a version 4 closer to that definition as soon as I have the time.

The guar man · Post by **The guar man** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:01 am

I like your concepts of the admantine tower.

Tamriel Rebuilt

Upsilon's concept art

Adamantine Tower

wow