Black Marsh Bestiary

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:28 am

Yeah, something like that. Exactly my point.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:42 am

Here's an idea for a black marsh (or maybe somewhere else) creature. It's only the head so far, but I guess it'll be kind of like the Grahl: a large semi-intelligent biped. The lips are covered in snaggly teeth, especially the lower lip, and the dreadlock-type things on its head are meant to be very thick, matted hair, kind of like crap rhino horns. Feedback would be good, see what you think

http://artpad.art.com/?incn0diuip4

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:48 am

I love it...swamp troll maybe? I cant really see this lumbering through the foliage but it looks like something that could go in the marshland bits.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:00 am

Yeah, could be. Has anyone thought about what kind of lanscape is going into black marsh? I was thinking there could be big tracts of mud flats further out towards the coast. I see this creature (whatever it is) as filthy, always covered in mud, so that kind of habitat would be perfect. It'd need big flat feet too, that makes designing the body slightly easier

If there's any interest in this I can come up with a few ideas for background, behaviour animations, whatever

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:20 am

Yup thats what I had in mind...sorta like the Amazon rain forest flowing into something resembing the everglades but muddier. I can just imagine running past a deep mudpool and having this come out.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:48 am

lol, reminds me of the Predator. Here's another little sketch of a non-aggressive insectoid, there's a description of it on my concept art thread

http://artpad.art.com/?incpxzv5wck

any ideas for that?

Odowacar · Post by **Odowacar** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:08 am

Also a giant praying mantis would be nice.

And what I meant about the feathered dinosaurs.. I was thinking something like this: [url]http://www.pts.org.tw/~web02/beasts/factfiles/primary_ff_displays/phorusrhacos_large.jpg[/url]

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:50 pm

That bird looks far more like a plains animal to me. Something we would see in elsewyr.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:29 pm

According to the Arena Map, theres a plateau in the center of Argonia. Maybe some avorial creatures?

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:49 pm

I think that we should shy away completely from the well-known species of dinosaurs (t-rex, stegosaurs, sauropods etc) and instead concentrate on the ones that people don't know about and then further warp them to make them seem more unique.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:39 pm

[url]http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unclassed013yt.jpg[/url]

An old concept I think can be used as a basis for the Lizard Men of Black Marsh.

From TIL: "Once thought to be distant cousins of the Argonians, it was soon evident that those lizardmen had nothing human within them whatsoever. They are a race of carnivorous reptiles, whose use of language stretches only far enough to communicate the location of their prey to the rest of their hunting party, which then move to attack and feed."

Graff.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:43 pm

Removed: Look further down the page

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:54 pm

So...

Area 1
-Small ground-based lizard/insect critters.
-Tree-based lizards/snakes/insects/mammals.
-Burrowing mammals?
-Poisonous plants.
-River-based amphibians/mammals.

Area 2
-Tree-based animals.
-Flying creatures
-Larger, Stronger amphibians in the swamps.

Area 3
-Flamingoes!! (Just kidding)
-Flying creatures
-Semi-intelligent creatures capable of making rafts? (Such as the Lizard Men)
-Crocodile/Alligator-like creatures.

Area 4
-Desert lizards/mammals

Area 5
-Mammals of all kinds
-Flying creatures

Yeah?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 6:44 pm

Pretty much...of course the big tree in the middle is Murkwood

[img]http://til.gamingsource.net/places/murkwood.jpg[/img]

I think this should be the highest point of Argonia, and sort of 'the land that time forgot'. If theres anywhere for 20 ft carnivourous plants and truly outlandish beasts, this is it.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:18 pm

*sighs* We already know what the "areas" are and what goes there. There are three areas. Find Stumpy's map.

And don't argue with it. Stumpy was probably one of the most knowledgable people when it came to Argonians and Argonia period.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:21 pm

Sload wrote:*sighs* We already know what the "areas" are and what goes there. There are three areas. Find Stumpy's map.

And don't argue with it. Stumpy was probably one of the most knowledgable people when it came to Argonians and Argonia period.

Never heard of it but I'll go looking.

And Im just guessing based on looking at a map.

Edit Found it and it has four areas: Basically you can just lump the two plataeu ones together.

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/4965/roadscitiesandvillages3pd.jpg

Sooooooo basically the Murkwood area in the middle is 'the land that time forgot', the Sutadee-controlled area is like the amazon and then the other two areas could be comprised of both marsh and swamp. The Tanza-Ra area looks more like a marsh to me and the Tolmei like a swamp. However I think this map is more about who controls the areas rather than geography.

My personal opinion would be to have dense rainforests all across the north to about as far south as Helstrom, marshlands along the east coasts around to about Seaspring and swamps around the rest of the Tolmei area up to stonewastes. The rest are 'highlands' as said in the Black Marsh lore thread...basically a transition land into Cyrodiil. Probably heathland. Mirkwood is a case unto its own, of course.

So...

Sutadee/Northeast Tolmei
http://www.hikemaui.com/images/hikes/slideshows/full/full3.jpg

North/Central Tanza-ra
http://dcm2.enr.state.nc.us/ims/wetlands/salt_marsh.jpg

Southern Tanza-ra, Southern Tolmei
http://www.backdrops.net/images/60%20Swamp%2014'%20x%2020'.JPG

Northern Tolmei
http://www.ma.adfa.edu.au/Research/Heathland/Whatisheath/p178.jpg

Murkwood
http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/181/pa-Marae.jpg with more evil of course

I would like to point out that this map is wrong in some places. Nibaney valley is in the middle of Cyrodiil, and Topal Bay is the body of water on the eastern side of the Black Marsh, rather than a lake in the centre.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:42 pm

Right, putting faces to names. From Stumpy's excellent research we know that there are 4 predominant sub-species as well as numerous others. These are the Sutadee, Tolmei, Tanza-Ra and An-Nurash. The 'numerous others' include the 'Morrowind' variety. The text is from the link below, and the pictures are from numerous sources. Some are not marked as specifically those but its my guesswork. Each tribe basically centres around their hist tree and is made up of varying percentages of the different subspecies...eg in the Sutadee 'region' it is around 30% Sutadee 15% each of the others and 20% Miscellaneous
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10907&highlight=alternative+argonian

The Sutadee argonians are experts in guerilla warfare. Their figures are nimble and quick, their powerful legs suitable for great running speeds and leaping capabilites, augmented by their thick tails to aid in balance. The Sutadee utilize their modility in combat through ranged hit-and-run attack and retreat patterns. Their skin is more greenish than the unclassified argonians, with small frills along their extremities. Their skulls are similar to those of unclassified argonians, with a low cranial dome and pronounced snout. Facial tattoos are not uncommon amongst their veteran warriors. Sutadee are the primary argonian combatants and greatly responsible for keeping the Dres slave raiders at bay.
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/g/conceptart/creatures/argonians/sutadee.png

The Tolmei argonians resemble snakes as much as lizards, with a brightly colored and decorative scaled appearance without noticeable ears. Their bodies are small and frail, making them rather worthless in melee combat. Their fingers and tails are long and curved, with minimal claws. A high cranial dome with a short shout and a series of blue-black stripes down their spines easily distinguish these argonians from their brethren. Tolmei often follow Sutadee into combat, augmenting their abilities with alteration and mysticism spells.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/Zalzidrax/Tolmei.jpg

Tanza-Ra argonians are rather crocodilian in appearance, with a thick leathery brown skin covering their heavy, muscular bodies. Their massive arms and general distaste for magic makes them perfect for senseless brutality, in which they have been known to excel. While their speed on land is rather slow, their digits are clawed and webbed, allowing them to reach great speeds in the water. A low-crowned skull, wideset jaw and straight rows of spikes makes these argonians hard to miss. It is common practice for Tanza-Ra to display the teeth from their largest kill as earrings to showcase their fighting prowess. These argonians are often guards or expeditiary forces; they guard the villages not from interior crime however, but from the threats of the marsh.
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/g/conceptart/creatures/argonians/tanza-ra.png

In stature, An-Nurash argonians differ only slightly from the unclassified argonians. Thier faces are more draconic, with high snouts and deep set eyes. They often have horned frills or brightly colored crests ranging from bright yellows to vibrant reds, which they augment with all forms of jewelry. Their combat abilities are mediocre as their true strength lies in their healing magics, so these argonians are more likely to be found at the center of a village than patrolling the swamp. They are the leaders of the tribes, the spiritual councelors and closest argonians to the Hist.
http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p31.jpg

For more information see that link at the top of the page.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:01 am

Here's my idea of what a Hist might look like. Maybe it's too sci-fi, I don't know

http://artpad.art.com/?ined4c15q3go

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:15 am

Some guy drew some amazing ones...most of the Argonian art is from him...and his his drawing was pretty damn awesome. Il was quite similar to that.

http://www.eekonline.com/hemsidan/updates/pix/histtree%20copy.jpg

The background is wrong but you see what he was going for.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:11 am

Ah yeah, that's good (fom what I can tell anyway, it's too dark on my pc)

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:09 pm

Stumpy's map is innacurate when it comes to borders. It seems he based it on the Arena map. According to the Daggerfall map, it is narrower and curves into a penninsula.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:17 pm

Well since its mainly very low land out near the edges its quite likely that vast tracts of land are exposed at high/low tides. That could account for the two different maps.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:50 pm

Then Thorn would be underwater. I seriously doubt this had to do with any tides. The Arena map is outdated.

http://til.gamingsource.net/maps/EmpireOfTamriel.gif

I don't usually go by this map but the borders are very accurate.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:52 pm

I think we should try and get stumpy back to make a never version of the map. That would sort a lot of stuff out

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:17 pm

Argonia could be inspired by Irian Jaya in parts, and Corihuayrachina in others. Big swamps broken up by massive trees, and sharp terraced inclines where crops can be grown. (Just the way I saw it)

p.s. If you are going to invite Stumpy back, I suggest you take anything he says in the vein of criticism with a pinch of salt, because I personally won't be reprimanding him because he upset anyone.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:54 pm

I miss Stumpy. He was ruder than I was.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:14 pm

Official information on the Argonians is quite limited, a lot of the stuff that we have is extrapolation, guesswork, and sheer filling in the details, and a lot of what we have is not necessarily set in stone, but just ideas. So, really anyone knowledgeable enough, and with enough tiem could make the map.

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:05 am

Area 1
-Small ground-based lizard/insect critters.
-Tree-based lizards/snakes/insects/mammals.
-Burrowing mammals?
-Poisonous plants.
-River-based amphibians/mammals.

Area 2
-Tree-based animals.
-Flying creatures
-Larger, Stronger amphibians in the swamps.

Area 3
-Flamingoes!! (Just kidding)
-Flying creatures
-Semi-intelligent creatures capable of making rafts? (Such as the Lizard Men)
-Crocodile/Alligator-like creatures.

Area 4
-Desert lizards/mammals

Area 5
-Mammals of all kinds
-Flying creatures

Is this really the order, or something oyu threw together, cause the reason im not modding or anything is because im pre-working the marshes.
If that is the real order, i'll start working on them. Maurghertha and I are working on it, but shes been a bit absent.

Any other ideas for Black Marsh concept creatures, PM me, i'm trying to draw them out than im learning to texture.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:16 am

Silverwood wrote:
Area 1
-Small ground-based lizard/insect critters.
-Tree-based lizards/snakes/insects/mammals.
-Burrowing mammals?
-Poisonous plants.
-River-based amphibians/mammals.

Area 2
-Tree-based animals.
-Flying creatures
-Larger, Stronger amphibians in the swamps.

Area 3
-Flamingoes!! (Just kidding)
-Flying creatures
-Semi-intelligent creatures capable of making rafts? (Such as the Lizard Men)
-Crocodile/Alligator-like creatures.

Area 4
-Desert lizards/mammals

Area 5
-Mammals of all kinds
-Flying creatures
Is this really the order, or something oyu threw together, cause the reason im not modding or anything is because im pre-working the marshes.
If that is the real order, i'll start working on them. Maurghertha and I are working on it, but shes been a bit absent.

Any other ideas for Black Marsh concept creatures, PM me, i'm trying to draw them out than im learning to texture.

Somehow I doubt you'll get very far, and now this list is obsolete, considering the change in our view of geographical regions.

Graff.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:46 pm

Okay, how about this as an idea to make Argonia really weird?
-Use entire forests of coral on land. They would also contain such creatures as land versions of sea urchins and anenomes etc.
This would make the place really stick out.
(please tell me if this idea is going way too far)

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:48 pm

It is. That is the coral kingdom of Thras, where the Sload live. South a bit, I believe.

Suppose we could lump that with the black marsh when we get round to it.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:53 pm

Yep, you're probably right.
I heard about land-coral somewhere in TES lore.
I just thought Black Marsh was the most likely place.
My bad.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:03 pm

Ludovic wrote:Yep, you're probably right.
I heard about land-coral somewhere in TES lore.
I just thought Black Marsh was the most likely place.
My bad.

Hehe yeah the land of coral is just where the sload live. Its on the same page as the Black Marsh on TIL and I reckon its quite close too.

'Thras

The coral kingdoms of Thras, a set of islands southwest of the Chain in the Abecean Sea, are home to a godless tribe of beastmen called the Sload. These amphibious slugmen, perhaps the most hated race in all of Tamriel, were long thought to be extinct. After the Sload released the Thrassian Plague in 1E2200, which claimed more than half of the continent's population, the largest allied naval force in Tamrielic history sailed to Thras, slaughtered all the Sload they could find, and, with great unknown magicks, sunk their coral kingdoms into the sea.

Sadly, it has been reported that Thras has risen again, and that its masters, the Sload, have recently been seen in various areas of Tamriel. Citizens are encouraged to avoid these beasts, and contact the nearest Imperial authorities when they learn of one's existence. Much is remembered about the slugmen, and has been collected for you in the nearby sidebar. Be vigilant. '

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:59 pm

Actually, Thras is nowhere near Argonia. Its in the Abecean Sea, West of Cyrodiil.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:21 am

Arthmodeus wrote:Actually, Thras is nowhere near Argonia. Its in the Abecean Sea, West of Cyrodiil.

I just have nooooo idea where that sea is

So more near Summerset then? Just seems odd that they seem to frequent Morrowind and Argonia a lot.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:21 am

Well the slaves are collected for the great slave markets in Tear, and Black Marsh is where the argonians are ripe for the picking. The Sload also frequent Elsweyr.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:24 pm

Ahh good point

We will probably need some sload models and airships for morrowind...possibly some barges for getting around tear.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:54 pm

The Sload would probably not find much of value in the Black Marsh as corpses decay so quickly, despite its comforting sogginess.

cwandell · Post by **cwandell** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:09 pm

i thought the sload were borderline on extincted and there was a bounty on the head of any live sload?

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:17 pm

cwandell wrote:i thought the sload were borderline on extincted and there was a bounty on the head of any live sload?

Hmmm... might make a good quest idea.

Tamriel Rebuilt

Black Marsh Bestiary

sfd

Re: sfd