Tamriel Rebuilt @ The Elder Scrolls Forum Again: Oblivion

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:27 am

Does anyone want to officially address this topic? I'd answer but I don't want to misstep or over step the bounds of my authority:

[url]http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168657&view=findpost&p=2911377[/url]

Have Fun!

Athame

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:33 am

No posting at ESF about TR. Bad bad bad!

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:43 am

Sload wrote:No posting at ESF about TR. Bad bad bad!

Actually, I've already replied Master Sload, I hope you'll agree with my post and won't flog me too badly...... *grovels*

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:09 am

You should be more scared of Stalker. Though IMO you composed yourself well there, and at the time I checked the thread hadn't gone nasty (I'm sure Razorwing will try to change that though)

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:19 am

Nomadic1 wrote:You should be more scared of Stalker

And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights. Why doesn't anyone listen to these things? It's pretty important.

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:36 am

Sload wrote: And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights. Why doesn't anyone listen to these things? It's pretty important.

Well, I made three posts and it looks like the thread's dying anyways. I just don't like being called foolish and I don't like the endeavors I take on being labeled an "epic waste of time" but that's just me I guess. If anyone doesn't like how I replied, I'll gladly delete my posts.

A TR member did not start the thread; I merely answered the charges in the most accurate, professional manner I could muster.

If the core wants the thread completely removed, it's well within their powers - they had the last thread deleted by moderators @ ESF.

I am first and foremost an Elder Scrolls fan and I post @ the Elder Scrolls forum quite frequently. If I see disparaging remarks made about TR in the future, I'll just report them here and let the core deal with them.

I still DON'T feel that such remarks should go unanswered but once again, that's just me.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:45 am

Thank god topic=deleted. Page cannot be displayed. End of discussion

EDIT: P.S, Athame, please do not start another TR ESF thread again...i got into a fiasco with razor because you started these threads k, and I dont want some other n00b to get the wrong message and start this whole thing all over again. Not putting blame on you though.

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:54 am

Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote: EDIT: P.S, Athame, please do not start another TR ESF thread again...i got into a fiasco with razor because you started these threads k, and I dont want some other n00b to get the wrong message and start this whole thing all over again. Not putting blame on you though.

Sorry.

*Hangs head in shame*

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:01 am

Athame wrote:
Sload wrote: And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights. Why doesn't anyone listen to these things? It's pretty important.
Well, I made three posts and it looks like the thread's dying anyways. I just don't like being called foolish and I don't like the endeavors I take on being labeled an "epic waste of time" but that's just me I guess. If anyone doesn't like how I replied, I'll gladly delete my posts.

A TR member did not start the thread; I merely answered the charges in the most accurate, professional manner I could muster.

If the core wants the thread completely removed, it's well within their powers - they had the last thread deleted by moderators @ ESF.

I am first and foremost an Elder Scrolls fan and I post @ the Elder Scrolls forum quite frequently. If I see disparaging remarks made about TR in the future, I'll just report them here and let the core deal with them.

I still DON'T feel that such remarks should go unanswered but once again, that's just me.

It was wisely deleted, I guess the moderators there have seen what happens when you talk about TR at ESF.

There are four different mindsets about TR at ESF "They suck and will never finish." "What is that?" the unbiased crowd that just says "Meh" and us. These are listed in order from largest to smallest.

Therefore, when a post about TR is made it is usually followed up by "They suck, they're wasting their time." (I even heard a [particularily stupid] modder say "Or you could sit in a tree and throw rocks at people, same waste of time IMHO"). When we post there defending ourselves, a flame war starts. This has happened twice very recently, both times were awful. Mainly because some of us take things personally and show our frills and our main oponent (Lozerwing) has this obnoxiously subtle way of posting so it sounds either provocative or affable depending on which side of the fence your standing on. He's also full of shit, to the point that I sometimes wish he could read what I'm writing here and post with his stupid toolbox of emoticons and colored text.

In the end, it comes down to our PR rating there going further down the toilet and past the U-Bend and us hating them even more. This isn't very good from any perspective, so I'm going to be a hypocrite and advise you to bite back your tongue.

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:12 am

Sload wrote:It was wisely deleted

It hasn't been deleted, the board is just extremely busy because of the 20min demo video released on the web today. The average number of users has hovered around 275 all day long and it's really hard to get on.

I'm not contradicting you and Swiftoak, just posting FYI for the core in case they wish to have it deleted.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:05 am

Sload wrote:
Athame wrote:
Sload wrote: And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights. Why doesn't anyone listen to these things? It's pretty important.

No offense, but it wasn't made visible, and was poorly written. As usual, after I rewrote it into a more logical, and more power granting to the Core, it was flatly ignored (like all of my work.) Unless the Core decides to post something clear and articulate, about relations to the ESF, I must wonder. I would rewrite what they had said, and send it to them to finish, but what is the point, when it is only going to be ignored.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:37 am

Quite honestly, the core has no authority over what happens in other forums, or what people post in other forums.

However, if you do feel like replying to a TR thread in a non-TR forum, try not to make us look bad. Don't tout your affiliation with TR or make it seem as if your personal opinion is necessarily representative of the project team as a whole. If you don't have to say that you're a member, then don't bother.

Second, if you're angry about something someone has said in that thread, do not post in response to that. Anger only leads to flamewars which are bad for the project.

Thirdly, try to be more civil than anyone else in the thread--people can argue and snipe at each other all day long, but the person who really loses is the one who most looks like a prick. Which often is both sides.

And finally, if the thread had a different topic originally, try to ignore the TR part and redirect back to its original topic.

The administrators already have a lot on there hands here. Don't give them more problems by starting fights on other forums about TR.

And though I've said this before, it bears repeating:
Why the heck is there still a fued between ST and TR despite the fact that the people involved on the TR side weren't even around when we both went are separate ways. It's bad enough to hold a grudge for two years. Worse if it isn't even your grudge to begin with. Razorwing ain't a bad guy. Lay off off him, be civil, and stop this bloody bickering already.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:52 am

Some of us were there. Myself, Hermit, Eraser, and Earl for example.

While i don't have a 'feud' with ST, i can't help but be offended by what i see written about TR while i browse their forums. I've also read some unpleasant comments at ESF by Razorwing. He may not be a bad guy at ST or ESF, but he's not exactly nice to our community. He's got some sort of anti-TR campaign going as a pet project or something... oh well.. i just ignore the whole situation 95% of the time.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:10 am

Zalzidrax wrote:Why the heck is there still a fued between ST and TR despite the fact that the people involved on the TR side weren't even around when we both went are separate ways. It's bad enough to hold a grudge for two years. Worse if it isn't even your grudge to begin with. Razorwing ain't a bad guy. Lay off off him, be civil, and stop this bloody bickering already.

If it weren't for Lozerwing, Silgrad Tower probably wouldn't mean anything to me. He's an antagonistic jerk with a vendetta against TR, who wasn't here for the split either.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:26 am

I might as well appeal to both sides rather than none.

And Morden, you, me, Eraser, Hermit, and Earl don't exactly make up the preponderance of members on this board.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:11 am

And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights.

Um, me and Vern never said anything of the sort. No Core vote was taken banning TR members from speaking about TR on the ESF. I'm in this to mod, not take away your right of free speech. Typically, if you aren't a moron, you can post things in TR threads over on the ESF that will diffuse anti-TR sentiment in a non-confrontational manner. If you are a moron, and tend to say things here and elsewhere that are confrontational in manner (I'm looking at you, Swiftoak) then you need to learn to do one of the following:
1) Hold your tongue
2) Bandage your ass, because I will whoop the shit out of it.
Also something to note, that "Official Stance" on our main page was also added without any sort of Core vote being taken, so don't swear by it.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:35 am

Dexter wrote: Also something to note, that "Official Stance" on our main page was also added without any sort of Core vote being taken, so don't swear by it.

Please point me to an official stance on the main page saying that TR members should not post on ESF.

Athame · Post by **Athame** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:44 am

Zalzidrax wrote: However, if you do feel like replying to a TR thread in a non-TR forum, try not to make us look bad. Don't tout your affiliation with TR or make it seem as if your personal opinion is necessarily representative of the project team as a whole. If you don't have to say that you're a member, then don't bother.

Lol. I think I did okay. Take a look for yourself.

Also, I'm very proud of this project and my membership in it. Nevermind Oblivion, when the province of Morrowind is completed in this project, this will be the best thing since sliced bread to me.

Dexter wrote:I'm in this to mod, not take away your right of free speech. Typically, if you aren't a moron, you can post things in TR threads over on the ESF that will diffuse anti-TR sentiment in a non-confrontational manner.

That's good to know. Like I said, I'm over there a lot (too much really

). I have a lot of pride in TR, it's even in my signature over there. Most folks @ ESF know me to be a hardcore RPG'r and lore freak and I have several friends representing many of the better spoken and mature posters over there.

You can count on me not to spread gossip, misinformation or to talk out of my ass. If I know the answer, I answer it to the best of my ability; if I don't, I simply state that I don't know.

I've had several people contact me via PM because of TR in my signature. Usually it's: "Wow, you're in TR? Are you guys finishing Morrowind or using the Oblivion CS when it comes out?" I tell them what I know and direct them to the home page here.

You can count on me to put my game face on and represent TR in the most favorable, professional light possible in any given situation, you have my word on that.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:55 am

We don't need our honour defended at ESF. We're just modders, not chivalric knights.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:26 pm

Dexter wrote:
And Dexter and Vernon and the rest of the core who flatly said not to post at ESF because it causes fights.
Um, me and Vern never said anything of the sort. No Core vote was taken banning TR members from speaking about TR on the ESF. I'm in this to mod, not take away your right of free speech. Typically, if you aren't a moron, you can post things in TR threads over on the ESF that will diffuse anti-TR sentiment in a non-confrontational manner. If you are a moron, and tend to say things here and elsewhere that are confrontational in manner (I'm looking at you, Swiftoak) then you need to learn to do one of the following:
1) Hold your tongue
2) Bandage your ass, because I will whoop the shit out of it.
Also something to note, that "Official Stance" on our main page was also added without any sort of Core vote being taken, so don't swear by it.

I havent posted at ESF since you guys got pissed off and I already apologised for that.

ookami · Post by **ookami** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:53 pm

Vernon wrote:We don't need our honour defended at ESF. We're just modders, not chivalric knights.

Now those are words of wisdom. Getting the work done and releasing a truly glorious mod will be much more effective than lip service in making those ESF nay-sayers eat their words (and maybe some crow on the side).

I'm finding my way around the CS and such currently. Hopefully, I'll be a bit more useful some time in the near future.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:08 pm

Stalker wrote:
Dexter wrote: Also something to note, that "Official Stance" on our main page was also added without any sort of Core vote being taken, so don't swear by it.
Please point me to an official stance on the main page saying that TR members should not post on ESF.

I think this is what they are referring to, as well as myself, in my cynical post above:

[url]http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=14166[/url]

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:53 pm

Have I put that in FAQ ? No. So what the fuck are you talking about. You know I can become pissed like our V guy too. I doubt the project will benefit from another pissed admin.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:11 pm

Then put something in the FAQ, or ban someone to set a precendent. Once the rules are layed out, all that needs to be done is follow them, or that admins banning offenders. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Here is your original rule (modified) to work from:

"...from now on all Tamriel Rebuilt members are no longer permitted from answering in any of the Tamriel Rebuilt related threads on the ESF if it wasn't created by a core member. If you see a TR-related thread, please PM an author and explain the situation. Week long bans will be issued by Core members who have reason to believe that a Tamriel Rebuilt member was caught in violation of this rule."

Just to point out, I am NOT on the Core, and I just SCRIBED that from an earlier writing, so no noob better be coming to me and telling me that I don't have the authority to write...

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:52 pm

Actually, the "Official Stance" I was talking about was something else, but nevermind.

fanfas · Post by **fanfas** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:09 pm

Well bans i think that are a litle bit exagerated... Because sometimes we need to defend ourselfs, though the problem is that some members lose their tempers and start answering at low level... and that is bad for our image... those members should be banned... not all... because i, speeking for myself usually answer in a polite manner and send a PM to the therad creator explaining that doing TR threads is a bad idea and usually starts a flame war. Also if i post usually i redirect people to our forums...

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:05 pm

This won't be added in the FAQ. Not by me at least.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:06 pm

Comon guys. please just forget about esf, they can do whatever they want, it is out of our jurisdiction, I do ont want the core breathing down my neck or any other guys neck just because he/she was misunderstanding and did something wrong, please, for all our sake, end this once and for all.

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:24 pm

Zalzidrax wrote: And though I've said this before, it bears repeating:
Why the heck is there still a fued between ST and TR despite the fact that the people involved on the TR side weren't even around when we both went are separate ways. It's bad enough to hold a grudge for two years. Worse if it isn't even your grudge to begin with. Razorwing ain't a bad guy. Lay off off him, be civil, and stop this bloody bickering already.

[img]http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/pigskinp.gif[/img]
I hear ya clear on this- some people need to grow up.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:27 pm

Its pretty obvious who you are talking about. Me. Cut it okay, i am not involved anymore. Please,everyone forgive me. I was a dumbass when i joined esf, that is over now.

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:33 pm

Actually i wasnt referring to you- in fact i wasnt fully aware you were a member. Hello

. Even if you do hate Razorwind and Silgrad, the overwhelming sense of negativity extends far beyond just you.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:38 pm

No, i never hated them, because I wasnt there when the two split, i just got mad at them for that week. So im cool witht hem now.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:06 pm

Ugh, I swear, you mention the ESF in a thread, and an hour later someone mentions ST...
I don't know anything about Razorwing besides what he has done here, on our forums, and in TR threads over on the ESF. And what I have concluded from that limited interaction is that he is a petty tool. Now look, the split happened years ago, nobody cares about it anymore. So just drop the ST nonsense. Let's not sink to Razorwing's level, and make a news post on our homepage titled "The Silgrad Tower Question".
Now, about the ESF, just don't act like an idiot over there in regards to representing TR. There is no official TR stance regarding what you can and cannot do over at the ESF. We won't make rules that extend beyond TR.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:09 pm

I think this thread has achieved its purpose now.

[img]http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6239/magic41rb.jpg[/img]

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:16 pm

Yay! Thanks.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:21 pm

So glad you're happy.

ps This thread wasn't about you, but about the problems we have with ESF. So don't make it about you, and no-one will say anything. ;)