Imperial Archeological Society - Guild Discussion

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:22 pm

Don't forget to write a faction book that hints at a certain 'Indy'. Remember the 'dying man's last words'?

Maybe we could even, in a bolt-on, add a small quest that makes the player look for this 'Indy' ...

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:09 pm

Haplo wrote:7 - Maybe 'Expeditor's Assistant'.

While that is a good rank, I think you took my parentheses to mean I didn't like "Junior Expeditor." I don't like "Expeditor." It sounds more like someone who's going to poind my face in than like a leading archeologist.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:49 pm

Expeditor on dictionary.reference.com displays the verb "to expedite," with these definitions:
1. To speed up the progress of; accelerate.
2. To execute quickly and efficiently: was trusted to expedite the directives of the board.
3. To issue officially; dispatch.

Thesaurus entry:
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?r=2&q=expedite

So... I don't see what else.
Administrator or supervisor for the "leadership" angle?
Conservator or curator for a scholar/museum angle?
Keeper? Custodian? Superintendent? Elsweyr Jones?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:53 pm

No, Mr Jones is already in Morrowind

http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/dying_mans_last_words.shtml

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:58 pm

What about:

7. Supervisor's Assistant
8. Archeological Supervisor
9. Senior Archeological Supervisor

The last name is really awesome in my opinion because it has that "Imperial trying to sound important" ring to it. Sort of like that thing from the Harry Potter books, "Senior Undersecratary"

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:20 am

I like those.

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:29 am

how about:

9 - Administrator
8 - Supervisor
7 - Head Excavator
6 - Excavator
5 - Junior Excavator
4 - Archaeologist
3 - Explorer
2 - Assistant
1 - Digger

I'm pretty sure you all meant "excavator" instead of "expediter".

Also, I'm not quite sure "Archaeologist" should be used as 4. Everyone in the Imperial Archaeological Society technically already counts as an Archaeologist. Perhaps an alternative would be to drop that category and add a low rank like "Hireling" or "Apprentice" at 1 or 2.

kaffeend · Post by **kaffeend** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:26 am

As I understand it, the author of The Ruins of Kemel-Ze was a complete tosser... He was acedemic to the core, as well as a racist slave driver who was more inclined to use a whip than any real weapon. In fact, his life was saved at first sign of trouble by his assistant - who, using his superior intellect and powers of Destruction thought to destroy the steam centurion by going for it's power source - the steam. That's where my mind goes fuzzy... but I remember that his assistant was the one who came through in the end. Anyway, maybe I'm not even thinking of the right book, 'twas a while ago, and I only read it once :/

EDIT: Oops, forgot to mention my point :s I believe the 2 attributes should be intelligence and willpower. That's all.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:53 pm

Speechcraft
Clearly, dealing with locals proves this is an essential skill. They may need some sort of bribery, persuasion or some other sort of motivation to get the job done. As seen, specifically, in all previous accounts of both in-game and real expeditions the support of the locals is very favorable.

Mercantile
Once again, the looters of ruins or other locations is obvious. Say there's a giant Dwemer Shortsword of Backscratching and some peasant has it? Well, it's probably best to have both speechcraft and mercantile to get that sword from him. Not to mention, buying crucual supplies from towns nearby are kind of critical, so being able to purchase them is a good deal.

Athletics
Everyone should stay in shape, especially guys who have to run away from cursed ruins, undead fiends, mechanical soldiers or other things that would love to tear them to pieces. Not to mention lower-ranking members would clearly need to be in good physical condition to dig out ruins.

Alchemy
Think of all the uses being an alchemist can bring to the table. Metals are corroded, doors are sealed and there's porbably lots of nasty things in the ruins to poison or disease your workers or guards.

Unarmored
It's nice to dodge things, you know? Instead of wearing armor, why not just walk in with what you have and be able to improvise.

Blunt weapon
With the staffs they usually carry, and all the random things that qualify as a "blunt weapon" I think this skill would be nice to have. Relying on any sort of escort 100% is stupid, and poor judgement. You won't carry a legionnaire on your back at all times, and you can get cornered. That means you would then need to dodge (unarmored) and fight off whatever it is with the blunt weapon skill. While your athletic abilities allow you to run away.

There you have it, my two cents.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:33 pm

I think acrobatics rather than athletics would be a good idea, as exploration is more about being able to get to difficult spots than being able to run fast. Plus, as pretty much everyone has high acrobatics, it would make advancement through the ranks easier without having to raise a specific skill you normally don't use for that purpose. As is the skill list you gave is very mage oriented.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:11 am

Everyone has high athletics too...

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:00 am

Yeah, but Athletics is kind of pointless for archaeology.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:04 am

Most of what they do back home is sit on their asses at get-togethers and exagerate all their finds. Remember that.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:56 am

Aaron wrote: Plus, as pretty much everyone has high acrobatics, it would make advancement through the ranks easier without having to raise a specific skill you normally don't use for that purpose.

I agree there, and to expand upon that prarticular point I don't think Alchemy should be in. It is really easy to raise as well, and could make getting through this questline far too easy.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:27 am

Alchemy makes complete sense because it was specifically mentioned in Kemel-Ze, but if you'd like to debate either athletics or acrobatics then I'd assume go with Sload's point and remeber these are just nerds who like to find old dude's junk all over the place.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:21 am

I think we should drop alchemy because we are trying to have a little dependancy on the Mages Guild through their inability to make potions and enchantments.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:31 am

I don't see why you'd want to drop alchemy, it makes perfect sense. If you WERE going to drop it, what would you replace it with?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:50 am

Security. As if that isn't an obvious answer

Oh, and with the talk on Map 2 guilds, Alchemy is a bad idea.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:20 am

We already have security.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:17 am

I was looking at your post above

Anyway, let's see... the only things I reckon on the original list that should be changed is that Athletics should become Acrobatics, and Alchemy be replaced. The latter is preferential.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:59 pm

Alchemy makes great sense. I am just looking at it in terms of how easy would it be to gain levels in this guild. Alchemy is waaay to easy to gain levels in. Just pop to Balmora, teleport to Caldera, grab the stuff, teleport to Sadrith Mora, and in 15min with a small amount of gold the PC can be at level 100.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:47 pm

Archeologists often dont do that jab rat stuff themselves..they are far too important! An intellectual is not going to waste his time mixing up the solutions when he can get some lickspittle (in this case the Mages Guild) to do it for him.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:16 pm

We don't have any real intellectual skills, though, they're all combat, movement or item-oriented.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:16 pm

Well there isnt a skill for 'book reading' or 'archeological knowledge'. That sort of all falls under the Intelligence requirement, and then we just have to find skills in the system which do fit.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:34 pm

How about we just add something like armorer? That's fairly hard to raise, and it sort of ties in with identifying and appraising the equipment and artifacts. Right?

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:39 pm

I agree with Etz on Armourer. It would be more of a use of identifying 'stuff' that was found in the ground.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:46 pm

Yeah, I like the idea of Armourer too.

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:21 pm

The only problem with assigning a standard set of attributes to your typical Dwemer explorer is that there are so many types of that "dwemer explorer": you could be a magic oriented scholar looking for a mystery to solve, a stealth oriented theif looking for treasure, a combat oriented warrior looking for an adventure, or what ever. Practically anyone could be in the freak'n guild!

Here's my two cents:
-security needed to unlock chests and what-not.
-speechcraft or mercintile for that Indiana Jones-like charm.
-athletics needed to run from boulders and all that Indiana Jones stuff.
-acrobatics, once again, to do all that Indiana Jones stuff. (I'm kinda against armorer myself--if its hard to raise, obviously some player will be left out)
-unarmored to represent the mage's scholastic affiliation. any other armor's just too brutish.
-blunt weapon as a primarily defense-based skill. (I'm tempted to say alchemy, but maybe its just because that's my own character's skill!)

You might notice I gave each basic attribute (stealth, combat, and magic) exactly two of their own skills. Frankly, I'm not really concerned about what's assigned where, just as long as no character type is short changed in the process.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:55 pm

Saying that no character type should be short-changed kinda defeats the purpose of having different skill sets for factions. This guild should short-change Nord barbarian characters because it's not the right kind of guild for Nord barbarians. I say drop all the action based skills.
Someting like this looks suitable to me:
-speechcraft
-mercantile
-security
-armourer
-alchemy
-unarmoured

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:01 pm

Ludovic wrote:Saying that no character type should be short-changed kinda defeats the purpose of having different skill sets for factions. This guild should short-change Nord barbarian characters because it's not the right kind of guild for Nord barbarians. I say drop all the action based skills.
Someting like this looks suitable to me:
-speechcraft
-mercantile
-security
-armourer
-alchemy
-unarmoured

But alchemy screws over the Mages guild questline...

Why not have Restoration...bit of a pun.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:10 pm

I really can't see the IAS being anything other than puny nerds. The main reason they interst me is because of their departure from the whole "go there, kill that" kind of quest.
How about using enchant, as they would surely have lots of contact with magical artifacts.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:55 pm

They have no reason to enchant things though.

Anyway, how is this:

Acrobatics (For less accessible areas)
Armourer (For repairing discovered items)
Blunt Weapon (Just in case for a worst case scenario)
Mercantile (Valuing and Appraising)
Speechcraft (A lot of talking)
Unarmoured (No point in wearing armour)

It doesn't screw the MG with things like Alchemy or Enchant, doesn't have Indiana Jones type things like blades or athletics, is well suited for a nerdy character, screws over a barbarian character, and skills are enough for a PC to actually advance through the guild.

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:29 pm

I kinda like that set up--its well rounded, too. The only change I would make is maybe switch speechcraft with security. Remember how many locked door and chests you always found in those ruins? A Dwemer Archaeologist would have to go through that on a daily basis! It would be far more applicable than speechcraft.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:25 am

Oh yeah, security. IMO mercantile, unarmoured or blunt weapon would be better than speechcraft to replace.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:08 am

Enchant is not just creating items, it is also using them and recharging them. While they don't have to create new items, being skilled in the use of old artifacts and able to restore drained items seems fit.

(Is there a way in-TESCS to place magic items that will have no charge when found?)

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:17 am

Gez wrote:(Is there a way in-TESCS to place magic items that will have no charge when found?)

I think there is...you set it when placing the item.

I would leave enchant out...gives the MG something else to do

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:51 pm

I say there's no reason why they can't share skills with the Mage's Guild. Both the MG and the IAS are quite intellectual Factions and they will have some overlap. Just because the IAS have enchant as a skill doesn't mean they have to be all that good at it. Enchant could be reasonably taken to encompasss the ability to examine items. In fact, it would be good to have the IAS passing on the identification a certain dangerous item to the MG after one of thier members dying while using it. (Without telling them the danger- the PC would have the chance to give a full or a partial story. If the PC chooses to tell everything, he gets a MG rep boost. If not, he gets an IAS rep boost.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:05 pm

The point is that the early Map 2 MG quests are all set around making potions and stuff for the IAS.

Think about it...when was the last time you turned on CSI and saw one of them mixing up some Luminol, that neat stuff they put on blood which glows. Never. Theres some other person mixing this stuff up for the intellectuals who would never dream of getting their hands dirty. The chain of command.

Infinitium · Post by **Infinitium** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:01 pm

I say just drop all defensive skills and go all out scholar/thief on this one. They (should) have hired brutes to keep aminculi and rivalling excavators at bay anyway, and since combat isn't the focus of the guild it should be up to each and every archeologist how they'd like to (not) defend themselves.

-Armorer
-Alchemy
-Enchant

Makes sense for examining the natural and magical properties of findings.

-Security

Also makes sense as a perceptive skill, and has some practical apllications as well (ie breaking and enter).

-Speechcraft
-Mercantile

Well, they still need to deal with the locals and getting funds from the imperial city in order to continue their research, so why not? There could be quests reflecting this as well...

Also, the fact that most of these skills are more or less worthless from a powergaming perspektive makes it all a lot more thrilling for them roleplayers, amirite?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:18 pm

Acrobatics (For less accessible areas)
Armourer (For repairing discovered items)
Mercantile (Valuing and Appraising)
Security (Obvious)
Speechcraft (A lot of talking)
Unarmoured (No point in wearing armour)

How about those six? No weapons, and all of them with their usefeulness for the IAS. And most importantly, no overlap with the Mages Guild!