A sad, sad day...

[Anonymous]

This is in response to the following...

The biggest change is going to be the introduction of a new class of membership – the TR Modder. TR Modders will be all members who are capable of producing any sort of content that is up to TR standards, and actively do so. To go along with this change, many sections of this forum will be made private, or at least hidden from the standard TR Members and guests. Included will be the Member Downloads section and Claims Browser.
The motivation for these changes is the vast number of members we have who contribute literally nothing, but download like mad. Everywhere on our forums, we see members encouraging us to keep modding, and to press on with Morrowind. And yet, I can count the number of hard-working modders on two hands.
Meanwhile, the non-modding community of TR will be by no means cut off from the rest of the project. Standard members will still be able to provide input and feedback, and participate in most discussions. We are unsure as to whether or not we will keep the user activation process.

I have quietly watched this project grow from it's inception, from that single mod release on Morrowind Summit (may it rest in peace), and I have felt great pain since this small, yet dedicated, community sealed itself off from the public's eye. I have routinely visited this forum, reading from it's many posts, silently keeping track of it's ambitious progress and occasionally downloading Map 1 in many of its stages of development, and to see the above news post brings the most pain. To think that you, as a community, have denegrated to the point of completely sealing yourselves off from the Elder Scrolls public basically means that the beginning of the end has come. You have given up.

To expand on my blunt point (however an oxymoron that may be), a mod commmunity sustains itself on the general leacher public. By repeated and routine releases to the public at each stage of development, the community receives the input, whether positive or negative, it needs to continue onward with the project. TR has unfortunatley upheld the belief that "we will not release it until it's done". This may be a requirement for a professional development team, but for mere TES lovers turned modders, this attitude means death.

In rebuttle, you may argue that leachers do not contribute. The numbers speak for themselves: Far, FAR more downloads to feedback ratio. Poor feedback like:

"It's incomplete"
"I found errors"
"It sucks"

- Etc -

Well guess what: That's part of software development. If you desire more positive feedback, market yourselves! TR has held the stance of hiding in the backdrop of the TES community, quitely working away while the feeling of being underappreciated has grown. If you advertised this mod community more aggressively to the TES community, I guarantee that the number of good modders and good contributers would grow. Again: Advertise your work and make it freely available. If you withdrawl it and hide it and force new modders to dance through hoops to simply contribute (and I did read the forum on the modder entrance exam, which was not only arrogant but practically suicidal for this project), your project will fail.

Also, keep in mind that the buzz over Morrowind has faded to a dull roar. Few people, other than those way behind the times or the truly hardcore even touch TESIII anymore. Moving to Oblivion was not only smart, but necessary due to this fact. However, with Oblivion you have a new opportunity to change your attitudes and truly give this project a good chance to see its goal come to fruition. Stop this policy of sealing yourselves off and open yourselves up. Of course, keep private forums, or even a private site for contributors, but please, PLEASE make routine releases to the general public, however incomplete, to allow yourselves to recieve some recognition for all of your hard work.

In additon, how can anyone other than a modder offer any valuable feedback or input on your work it you do not make it available to the public?

After all, if you turn your back on the TES community, how do you think they will treat you?

[horodnicdragos]

I say nothing on this.But you are somehow right but somehow wrong...well i can't explain you...see the core is made of honest people and...can someone help me here?I like TR how is it (this because i don't like changes) don't believe me?Ask some people how hard was to convert me. I wanted to stay on MW.But we can work at both of them am I right?And I don't see where is the problem.

[Greyscale]

*blink*

Well, that sure was an in depth post.

TR is "walling itself in" from the outside to get more results. Because you have to activly apply for the position of TR modder, it shows that you have interest in the project and that you are dedicated to get work done. Basicly, this system is designed to get dedicated people who will help get the project "done". There will still be parts of the forums that will be open to the public, but the majoity(?) of the forums will be private. I guess this helps prevent non-modders from obtaining unplayable alphas and betas of the project. It's your own oppinion what you think of the recent decision, and you have the right to think so. However, the administration believes that this will get more out of the project, and I agree with them.

EDIT: It appears that I did not read the entire post, sorry about that. I am certain that TR will continue to update the public on goings-on in the private forums. Just on the important stuff only.

[horodnicdragos]

I couldn't say that better.

[Negrodomous]

In short- TR is going downhill.

[Stalker]

Thread locked because I REALLY don't see a reason to create new one with one already opened.

[Stalker]

On the second note I'll reply to some of the concerns. We are not going to release incomplete work into public yet we are planning to separate the Province Next to a much more amount of Maps and release them one by one when they are done. Also we are planning to regularry update our screenshot db this time.

[Dexter]

Nah, I gotta reply to this.
We are not sealing ourselves off from the general public. We are closing our modding forums off from the general public, and leaving the rest of the forum open. We will probably also be abolishing our user activation proscess, making us even more open than we are now. The fact that we don't get along well with the TES community is due to the fact that all along they have been telling us that we can't do it, and right or wrong, that pisses us off. Our previous Admins were a set of sociopaths, and they did a lot to seal us off. We are now working to fix that.
Making our modding forums closed is something that we are doing in order to keep track of our progress. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but you know what? We aren't building this project for you, or anyone else out there. This is being done for us, and I don't give a damn if a few people in the ES community don't like it. We have always kept our member download section available to anyone who joins our forums, a proscess that takes two minutes, and look what we have to show for it. We have been downloaded from thousands of times by people who have never contributed. No, we've never made an official WIP release, but at any point, any old ESFer could come over and download our Maps as they are at that moment, along with any OoT upgrades.
I don't mind the fact that there are freeloader members. That is to be expected. But don't you dare come in here and preach to us about what we are doing wrong. You have no idea what we have gone through trying to hold this project together. What we are doing is for the best, and if you think you know what is best for TR better than we do, you need to wake up.

[Morden]

I'm sorry Intar, but you are grossly misinformed in regard to our current goals. Additionally, if you had actually participated in TR over the last few years, as we have, you would have a much different view.

[Stalker]

Ehem. Mod people this thread is lockzored !
[img]http://www.nebula7.com/photos/rusty-lock-600.jpg[/img]