TR Overhaul

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:04 pm

no, i dont think that a member who can not mod cant provide good critisism. i just havent seen it yet.

alright, ill jsut piss of before i say soemthing else that will be miss-interprited....

*goes away into her little corner of the forums*

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:14 pm

Thats rather confusing because of all the negatives, but if I get this right, so far, you think no person who doesn't mod has never said anything useful thus far...

If you did mean that, and I did interpret that right, then I'm pretty hurt that someone could say that!

If there's been a mix up somewhere, fair enough!

I have to say I started out being more of a supportive poster, but now I do my utter best to try and give realistic and constructive critisicism wherever possible, if none of it has been any good, tell me why!

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:42 pm

Ok, nobody now exactly what it will be.
The modders will be more confortable, the others less.(but it's a necessity).OK.
The idea to keep the forum open (not the claiming system) is good. Really it's an help to have feedbacks (not only from those you now), and the non modders will feel more active.
What's the definition of an active modder? For exemple i had send nothing during at least 2 months,but i was working on my claim regulary: so..?
About the reviewing system, i don't know what's the project but be sure that nobody will wait at the door for weeks.
Last but not least, non-modders have to feel like complete members, that means maybee to do a personnal work on communication and explanation.
Thanks for your answer dexter, i am on the way of acceptation now.

battle_bison · Post by **battle_bison** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:24 pm

This is definitely a step in the right direction, but I feel that new members should not be locked out of certain forums. I know many of us would never have even given TR a second look if we weren't allowed to sign up and poke around a bit to see the great work. Also, that means we will have threads commenting/suggesting things that may already be in the works, just they were not permitted to see the work being done already. Is it possible to allow new members to view but not post in certain forums? Unless this was the plan already and I merely misunderstood.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:46 pm

Before I speak: I've done little else than drawings to help the project and I'll have to give exams to be in the team, so don't feel like you read the post of a pre-defined member of the "inner circle".

Now:
1) Meaning no offense, I do believe that someone who has never tried to mod can't offer much in the way of constructive criticism. Sure, he may download and then post; "hey that thing has the x error. Fix it plz." But he doesn't know the possible difficulties of fixing that particular x thing, so it's not such a constructive suggestion.

2) All new members will be able to "poke around" since (from what I understood) the main page will have a good amount of screenshots, concepts and perhaps videos and a FAQ.
So, one can post random stuff of any kind, but will not be able to participate in the "heavy" discussions, concerning modding and the overall direction of the project.

I think that by these terms, everyone should be happy. If I understood correctly and the stuff written above is right, then it's a fair change.

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:03 pm

I have a question directed to the switch to OB:

Dex, of course, was just saying the switch is essentially effective immediately after its released. Pretty much anyone who can't work on OB stays in morrowind, and anyone who can will make the switch ASAP. But what about those who can mod on OB, but still have unfinished claims on Morrowind? There's still a whole bunch of claimed exteriors and such trying to rebuild the morrowind province, and I'd hate to see them just abandoned so quickly for OB. Shouldn't there be a guideline saying to finish your MW claims first before making the switch?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:10 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:no, i dont think that a member who can not mod cant provide good critisism. i just havent seen it yet.

Vyvara is all but constructionsetophobic and had the best idea for a new faction that one has had, one that spawned 6 other factions as well. The Writing Wraith does not mod, but has written some of the best books in BoT. Nomadic did not mod for like a year, but during that time was very useful with lore, quest ideas, and the like.

Unless I'm mistinterpreting you, but I think you just said "No, I don't think that a member who can't mod can't provide good criticism. I just haven't seen it a member who can't mod but can provide good criticism yet."

Savant wrote:Dex, of course, was just saying the switch is essentially effective immediately after its released. Pretty much anyone who can't work on OB stays in morrowind, and anyone who can will make the switch ASAP. But what about those who can mod on OB, but still have unfinished claims on Morrowind? There's still a whole bunch of claimed exteriors and such trying to rebuild the morrowind province, and I'd hate to see them just abandoned so quickly for OB. Shouldn't there be a guideline saying to finish your MW claims first before making the switch?

I feel that the opposite should be true. It's more important to work on something that we actually have a reasonable hope of finishing than to work on something that we know won't be finished.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 pm

people can leave such claims behind if they want to. They can be picked up and worked on by others who are staying behind.

Savant · Post by **Savant** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:32 pm

But so long as TES IV isn't out, shouldn't the claimers at least finish up their half-done work on Morrowind instead of just waiting for OB? I'm still a little hopeful that we could at least get all the exteriors done in Morrowind.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:33 pm

Okay, you can go around telling everyone to finish their work. The problem is that they haven't been doing that for atleast a month, so this isn't suddenly making people stop.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:00 am

Sload wrote:
Lady Nerevar wrote:no, i dont think that a member who can not mod cant provide good critisism. i just havent seen it yet.
Vyvara is all but constructionsetophobic and had the best idea for a new faction that one has had, one that spawned 6 other factions as well. The Writing Wraith does not mod, but has written some of the best books in BoT. Nomadic did not mod for like a year, but during that time was very useful with lore, quest ideas, and the like.

Woohoo! I was mentioned. But you didn't say one of the best examples, Marauth Alai-Raan. Did that guy know lore or what!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:52 pm

by "MOD" i meant "anything that qualifies you to be a TR-Moder". which prety much includes all the people that you mentioned as examples.

i did not mean to ofen anyone, its jsut one of those things that happens around me.

nakai · Post by **nakai** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:20 pm

But with the new change those people need to be modders to post the stuff with what they can become tr-modder.

So those persons wouldnt had a CHANCE to post it.

and you are still saying that non-modding member say nothing usefull.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:28 pm

um, yes they would. i belive it was alredy said that people could post their work in some forum (liek the lounge or something) and claim small claims (liek one cell exteriors)

and im not saing that a non-moding member has nothing to usefull say. i will leave it at that, because ive explained it as best i can in previous posts, and if i say anything else its likley to be missinterprited.

nakai · Post by **nakai** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:31 pm

But why then close the forum for them if they DO have something usefull to say?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:34 pm

alright, im geting a bit pissed. and when i get pissed, civility gets thrown out the window. read the stuff dexter and stalker said! they explainedperfectly why we are closing down the forums.

and let me sumarise:

cause people DL the files and never contribute

if a person realy wants to comment, he could always jsut do a little something. or, since there will most likely be a show-case forum of some sort, they can comment there

chalenge: go out and find me, in the forums that we are planing to close, a usefull comment by a member that does not qualify as a TR-moder.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:35 pm

Because for 1 person that has something useful to say we will have 3 having something UNuseful to say. So if a person is recognized to be saying something useful he will be granted access.
Let's look at this from the other side. 90% of mod teams out there have closed forums and nobody thinks it's a bad idea. And it doesn't depend on the amount of people who have something useful to say.

nakai · Post by **nakai** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:51 pm

would you like it to dont be allowed to post in forums anymore cause someone thinks you cant say anything useful?

90% of the mod teams exist of people who are just creating a mod with a group and dont have to accept a lot of new members and/or are afraid that someone steals there work.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:54 pm

Nakai, I am going to explain this one more time, and after that, if you still don't comprehend what we are doing, then I can't help you.
Sections of the forum that are devoted to modding will be closed off from the public.
Public sections of the forum will include areas for discussion of TR and non-TR related subjects. It will also include an area for non-modders to post their own work, so we can offer tips for them to improve, and see if anyone qualifies to be a TR modder.
That's it. We just want a nice chunk of the forums to mod in without outside distractions, where we can all keep track of what is being done. This is what we are going to do, our minds are made up, and we have already begun discussing how to implement the changes.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:53 pm

If people don't contribute and have no qualities that will make them a TR Modder, then why should they need to post in areas to do with the work behind the scenes? Public forums, with the information that they need to know, and private forums where the actual work goes on, are the way to go.

Imagine, if you will, a soundcheck, do you let in the babbling, 15-year old fans while the sound engineer is trying to work? I think not.

Graff.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:07 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:by "MOD" i meant "anything that qualifies you to be a TR-Moder". which prety much includes all the people that you mentioned as examples.

My mistake, you include non-modding project activities in your statement. Thanks.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:02 pm

Music hasnt been mentioned specificly. I take it that it will be for modders only. Is that correct? Will you be able to audition to be modder status with music alone?

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:08 pm

Music and Sound count as contributions, so quite likely, yes.

Graff.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:32 pm

Everybody who will do TR quality work will it be books\concepts or music and apply for TR Modder is likely to be in. Why likely ? Shit happens

Zarf · Post by **Zarf** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:44 pm

Hi, as much as I hate to de-rail a thread like this, I'd just like to get my opinion out. I didn't see anywhere else t do this. I'm one of the ruffians noted in the news on the front page that registered and downloaded like mad, but contributed nothing. I just wanted to say that I'm sorry, I should have realized that you probably want people to contribute if they are going to become members.

I really did want to contribute stuff. But, seeing as I have very little previous modding experience, and very little knowledge of Elder Scrolls lore, I figured by the time I had registered that I had better just stay out of things.

I'd also like to say that I am all for the move to Oblivion. It really stinks that all of your hard work hithertoo will be going to waste, but think of the advantages of Oblivion's engine over Morrowind's. You can also generate vast tracts of land with the push of a button with the new CS. It's going to be great walking from one side of Tamriel to the other, all in stunning forrests, and whatever else Tamriel has. I'm sure that you could make decent praries, swamps, tundra, and just about anything else far more convincingly than you could in Morrowind. Especially forests.

Maybe I can be a decent contributor for Oblivion's Tamriel. I wish you all good luck.

Now to attempt to get the thread back on track, I also think that closing certain parts of the forum would be very beneficial to the mod. Think about it, people who actually do work won't have to sort through fifteen pages of garbage to find a decent thread. A major re-organization of the forums could make helpful info very easy to find and will, IMHO, speed up work considerably.

Sorry to bother you all, I'll... just... disappear permanently.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:40 pm

If you don't have any modding experience, TR is a good place to learn. When i registered here I had no idea what i was doing with the construction set.

It really stinks that all of your hard work hithertoo will be going to waste,

It won't go to waste. Everything we've done will be uploaded as a modder's resource on the popular mod database pages. Creatures, armor, architecture, clothing, exteriors, interiors, ect will be available to people who still mod TES:III.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:54 pm

Zarf wrote:It really stinks that all of your hard work hithertoo will be going to waste

Anyway, not everybody is going to switch to Oblivion. TR is going to split into two mods.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:18 pm

Morrowind modding will probably still be popular in a few years... Despite the improvements in Oblivion, some things will still be much easier to do for Morrowind.

Example includes dialogue-intensive mods (not every modder has a voice actor team at his/her disposal), retextures (it seems BethSoft will not allow the distribution, even partial and modified, of their art files for Oblivion, all new models will have to be made from scratch), and mods that want to use heavily the dark elves and/or dwarven ruins (it's unlikely Bethesda will provide as many material for these themes as they did for Morrowind). And of course, of course, mods made by or for people with aging machines.

There are still a lot of WIP for Morrowind.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:19 pm

Okay, here's a suggestion, slap me with a trout if this is stupid:
At the moment, you aren't allowed to claim more than 4 interiors at the one time. You also aren't allowed to claim more than 2 exteriors. One exterior is much bigger than 4 average interiors.(4 shacks can be done in one day) Maybe people with "TR Modder" status should be allowed to claim more than 4 at a time. I realize the problem of people claiming and disappearing, but this problem would be greatly reduced under the new system.

Just a suggestion.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:56 pm

I don't see how that would help at all. First, our problem is not that there isn't enough for the interior makers to do. Second, if you can finish interiors fast enough to reasonably claim 5 at once, you should be able to finish 1 and then claim the fifth. No one needs to have more than 4 interiors claimed at the same time.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:46 pm

To try to give a simple explanation:

The core is trying to make TR more like every single other mod in existance; Where there are actual members of the project who work on stuff and there are forum members who follow development of the mod and are interested in it.

Colhir · Post by **Colhir** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:37 am

rite, thought i'd just post my opinion. (if you can be arsed to read, realised this wen i finished typing hehe)

i joined a while ago, made a claim and after like 2months still had no work to show, i had a HD crash, lost everything, had to buy a whole new system.

Thats why the modders need to me kept track of, people who make claims and leave but dont tell anyone... its only takes a bit of common sense to see how annoying that must be for the people trying to keep track of how the project is going, having to try and get in contact with people who dont even visit the site anymore but stil have that claim.

this is the reason for the TR-modder. they have proven them selves who can mod to TR standard.

also spliting up the forums is a good idea. i fully back this, even if i dont get given the TR modder status, i'll work hard 2 get it. wen this does happen we need and area where new ppl to the site can look at the project, like a place with the best screenshots, the best concept art, to really inspire ppl to mod TR.

anyway now i'm reformed no more going and not telling anyone, i'm willing to work so hard to get morrowind finished, even if i can play Oblivion (i've already ordered it btw) i will continue untill morrowind is in a respectable state to be released or untill it is completly finished. i want to play oblivion forwards backwards left and right before i start modding it, altho i will contribute if am asked to. lol i'll probablly load up the CS before i play the game.... anyways chow

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Hey, TR mod team. First of all, excellent work of the work you have done and the hole idea of the TR mod. I am a modeller/modder/scripter myself and just got amazed when I found your website 3 days ago and starting to review what Tamriel Rebuilt mod is all about. To recreate the Tamriel provinces for the OB game engine will be CHALLENGING and VERY TIME CONSUMING if you wonÃ‚Â´t be able to get the permissions to use betashedÃ‚Â´s older newer provinces to the mod. Right now you have 7 parts (provinces) remainging when you exclude the Morrowind and Cyrodill province since they are complete, except that you guys have to port over the Morrowind province to OB engine in order to make the TB mod more complete and fully complete once you are done with the 7 provinces. I must say this is the biggest mod project I have ever seen. When I first visited the site, I got a bit confused, I thought the the TR mod was going to be completely for TESIII: Morrowind game engine.

However seems you guys are going to finnish of the TB mod project on the Oblivion game engine instead as it looks now, then I have critism to that,

I see 2 scenarios I see that you guys would have to do

You are going to continuesly to move to a new upcoming TES game engine in the future basically for each Tamriel province that Betashed has not created to that TES game.
And by that, the end results will be if you guys just port over the Tamriel provinces from older TES games to the newer one, and you will see that the mesh quality between the provinces is different if you are not going to use the same mesh quality (polys) for the current Hammerfell province to the Oblivion game engine compared to the complete Morrowind province created for TESIII game engine that is or going to be ported over to OB engine if you will have the permission to port over BethesdaÃ‚Â´s old modeling work from older TES games.

The option here is to rework on putting up the mesh quality of the older provinces when you port them over to new TES game engines in the future. I assume you guys spent at least 4 years on the Morrowind province, and will most likely spend another 4 years on the Hammerfell province to OB engine.

2. You decide to stick with the OB game engine in the future and complete the Hammerfell province along with putting up the Morrowind province mesh quality when you port it over to OB if u will have the permission to port it those origin meshes from Morrowind province along with itÃ‚Â´s Tribunal and Bloodmoon meshes (landscape & buildings) to OB from author Bethesda.

Here you need to decrese the quality of newer provinces from future newer TES games, the thing is to get the permission from Betashed to do just that, that I think they will not allow you to do.

The problem I see with the your Tamriel Rebuilt mod right now is that you canÃ‚Â´t move from newer TES game engine in the future, because you will never be able to complete it since you have to rework on the quality of the older provinces. And even if you did decide to stay within the OB game engine in the future, then the only problem I would see is that getting permission to use newer provinces from newer TES games to port them over to OB and even from Morrowind itself.

I just finds it hard when I reflect my reply here before i send it, how you are going to be able to recreate all of the remaining 7 provinces and at the same time let the ppl get it. The permissions to use older / newer provinces from Bethesda is the thing that is causing the problem to complete the mod from my point of view.

About the way you organise the work and that rights to be able to get the latest versions of the TR mod, sounds right, Stalker. However, you should always have a minim beta tester crew to try out the landscape , the missions etc that basically have the permission to the latest version of TR mod except for the active TR main founders.

The others that just work on small tasks for the TR mod, should only have access to those files so they can work on their part.

Anyway, I would be happy to see one day you guys be able to complete the TR mod if it takes permission to complete it for the public, but the problem will always be to get the permissions to use Betasheds modeling work if you donÃ‚Â´t decide to recreate all the parts from scratch. If not for the permissions, then I would estimate it would take you another 21 years for the remaining 7 provinces.

Keep up the good work, the goal of the magnitude of this TR mod that will be worth the time, when in the end for the Fans/OLD Fans and newcomers.

Cheers!

Stealth.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:24 pm

Hi Stealth. You seem to be a bit confused. We are making the Hammerfall province on the Oblivion engine and that is all. We will be doing it in small peices, developing them fully as we go. We have no intention of recreating any other province on the Oblivion engine in any form. None of our past work with TES:III will be converted to Oblivion.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:10 am

To elaborate, our goal is to build Hammerfell. IF we finish it (which will not necissarily happen) we will release it publicly and move to another province.

Porting content from past games is not only impracticle, It's also probably imposible.