Horses

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:04 am

I don't quite know where this fits, though I was wondering... would they really have horses in Tamriel? I mean isn't this like some distant land? Probley even another planet? If this dosn't fit in Lore just delete it or move it. But I mean I could've sworn seeing pics of horses in oblivion screenshots, I don't think there should be horses... also saw them in the old Elder Scrolls games.

kapuhy · Post by **kapuhy** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:27 pm

In most provinces, there are horses of course. It seems only Morrowind province is an exception to that. Bethesda's people were suggesting that it has something to do with unique climate created by presence of volcanic fumes from Mount Doom...oops, Red Mountain

and that the horses can't survive in this unique climate.
It's a bit lame excuse in my opinion, but there's nothing better than that.

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:40 pm

The Dunmer also eat horse. The ash lands and harsh environment of Vvardenfell means no mammal apart from rats and humanoids can live there.

There are many species of animal taken from our world and put into Tamriel. Off the top of my head:
Sheep, hedgehogs, goats, horses, dolphins, sharks, lions, deer, cats (Alfiq), dogs, wolves, bears, elephants.
There are probabaly tonnes more than that. The thing is Morrowind was the most alien of the provinces and thus had a lot of unique creatures, whereas Cyrodil is closer to a traditional western fantasy, which is basically our world with more fantasy creatures thrown in.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:17 pm

Believe it or not, if it is in a game it does not break lore (unless it conflicts with a later game), because the game is lore.

Vholdrian · Post by **Vholdrian** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:44 pm

Sload wrote: because the game is lore.

That sounds like: The word is law lol. But it's true. And horses are a nice addition, although they should add more then only horses. Guars or such a animal to ride on.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:33 pm

Well Tamriel shouldn't have horses, just my opinion because it dosn't seem right. Did the Americas have horses? In the real world before europe found it? Nope. And that is on our world! They really shouldn't have horses. I'm just a realism freak tis all

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:40 pm

Did the Americas have horses? In the real world before europe found it? Nope.

Are you sure? I'm quite sure they did.

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:58 pm

Why are you stressing about this when a whole load of animals from real life are in lore? You never played Bloodmoon did you?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:04 pm

I have played blood moon and I was just making a point.
Or were you talking to Niralath?

Tidus Maximus · Post by **Tidus Maximus** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:41 pm

Niralath is right about the horses, the Native Americans DID NOT have horses until the Europeans came into the picture. The Native Americans stole horses for Europeans and some got loose and breeded. Anyhow, you could look at Tamriel as Europe, because Morrowind was the last province to be added to the empire right, so the Empire could of brought them into Morrowind just to find out they couldnt live there, maby, I dont know, you might want to check out the Pegasas Ranch mod, there are a bunch of books about the horses and where they came from, it also said somthing about the Ashlanders eating them and made its way back to Cyrodill.

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:29 pm

Krom wrote:I have played blood moon and I was just making a point.
Or were you talking to Niralath?

Talking to Niralath.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:20 pm

I think the same arguements could be used to ask why there are humans on Tamirel.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:24 pm

Yes I was going to bring that up sometime as well. A good danish friend of mine named Nox, that's his nickname. Is a very intelligent person. He brought up the unrealisticness of Sci-fi. There should be NO humans on other worlds. Unless an alien took humans from our world to those other worlds. Or other humans settled on our world. Clearly in the world of Tamriel the humans couldn't do that, but I guess to please the public they need all these Earth creatures right? Humans Horses Wolves and Bears and all that. Though I'm totaly against it. But it does make these games fun. Though if I were to make a game such as these, there would be no humans, or any other animals. But I can't just stop playing morrowind because there is humans and horses right? XD

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:28 pm

Artistic license.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:29 pm

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:41 pm

As for the presence of humans, it's possible that they evolved in the same way as humans in our world.

I'll aslo point out that Beth's humans are different than RL ones. If you think about it, all humanoids are biologicaly humans, since elves and men can produce fertile offspring. And by defenition, that's how you can tell.

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:43 pm

actually... The offspring must be able to have offspring as well. (isn't that the definition of an specie?)

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:50 pm

Correct, hence I said, "fertile" ofspring. Meaning they can have children. I have read some account that this is true and I might dig in up in TIL later... I think The real berenzia talks about a dunmer who had a little bit of Nord blood in him.

Tidus Maximus · Post by **Tidus Maximus** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:12 am

I just remebered somthing, going on the subject of humans not needing to be there, It tells you in the game that humans migrated to Tamriel from the continet of Athora, so I dont really get why you would question why there are humans. I mean, even if is considered another planet or what ever, why cant humans exist with the other races, they could easly been formed with the others. By the way, I am a little confused on the religious aspect of the game, the elves believe the Tribunal is the only true religion right, as do the Imperials, but in blood moon the Skaal believe in the all maker and as you go through the quests it seems that there cant be any one true religion, as it implies that the all maker is real, anyone else feel that way?

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:33 am

Youve got your facts crossed. Dunmer are the only people who believe in the tribunal. And for that matter, only non-ashlanders. Imperials believe in the nine devines, while other races have thier own respective pantheons containing some version of the aedra.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:15 am

And their all real! The Allmaker might not be, because he isn't mentioned anywhere else, but its a known fact that the Aedra, Daedra, and Tribunal are real.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:06 pm

Well, as for the three, it's debateable wiether the tribunal are "real". They are kind of "false". Plus 2 of them are dead now, the other is waining.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:26 pm

They definitely exist.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:07 pm

yes, or existed.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:37 am

Actttuaallyy, it's rather impossible for humans to form on other planets. There can be humanoids, but not humans similar to us. The only possible way for a human to be on another planet is to be transported there. I know this because, my friend whos about 40 years old. Is an astro-physicist. (however you spell that)He's smart in just about everything. And teaches me about all that stuff about earth life not being able to be on other planets. Unless they were transported there.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:50 am

He's not very smart if he assumes that it is impossible for another being to evolve exactly the same way we did. Its very unlikely, but it is certainly possible.

Not that this matters. In TES, the lore is law, not your substandard ability to suspend your disbelief.

ENIGMA* · Post by ENIGMA* » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:04 am

Sload wrote:He's not very smart if he assumes that it is impossible for another being to evolve exactly the same way we did

Show me a plantet with the same physica structure and cosmic alignmet as Earth and i'll believe you.....

until then it is improbable for anything to be exactly like us without some type of genetic diffrence.....

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:14 am

Genius, Enigma. Only there's a mile and a kilometer of difference between improbable and impossible. You also, uh, cut off the sentence where I said more or less the same thing you did so that you could spam without adding anything to the conversation. Cheerio.

ookami · Post by **ookami** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:10 pm

Niralath wrote:Did the Americas have horses? In the real world before europe found it? Nope.

Well then, should Tamriel have buffalo?

Perhaps Tamriel did not originally have horses, but they were introduced to Tamriel in much the same way they were introduced to the Americas. Maybe Tamriel orginally had them and it's Akavir that is lacking in horses. We have only actually had a good close look at one continent on Nirn so far, right?

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:07 pm

Your very smart teacher has a theory. The fact is, there are other very smart people who think otherwise. And none of them know for sure who is correct...

This whole conversation is riducous. The fact is that horses and humans both exist in the world of Tamriel. That's that and like it or not; It's not going to change!

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:26 pm

The fact that if things exist on Earth, they should not exist on Tamriel because it's practically impossible to have such a level of coincidence is completely and utterly asinine.

Let me break you an important news, one that no doubt will send you crying in tears in your bedroom and prevent you from sleeping at night, but one that you need to know anyway:

Tamriel is not real.

Yes, it's a fictional world. As far as we on Earth are concerned, nothing on Tamriel exists because Tamriel doesn't exist in the first place.

And as far as the fictional people of Tamriel exist, the Earth doesn't exist either.

So, you have exactly no coincidence. In the real universe, men only live on Earth, same with horses.

And in the fictional universe of Nirn, men only live on Tamriel (and associated other continents).

There's no coincidence at all, so no impossibility at all! Wonderful!

(I suppose the realism freaks will also object to the existence of horses in the Middle-Earth of The Lord of the Rings and 97% of all fantasy RPGs, tabletop and computer alike. I'm sure an RPG set in planet with a ammoniaced atmosphere where all species are giant blobs of protoplasms that communicates through beams of light would be much more enticing than one which features the common themes of heroic fantasy. At least, it would please the "realism freaks" who would have long hours of enjoyment trying to learn the language of light beams emitted by their protoplasmic avatars.)

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:43 pm

ENIGMA* wrote:
Sload wrote:He's not very smart if he assumes that it is impossible for another being to evolve exactly the same way we did
Show me a plantet with the same physica structure and cosmic alignmet as Earth and i'll believe you.....

until then it is improbable for anything to be exactly like us without some type of genetic diffrence.....

(i understand that the discussion of horses on tamriel is settled but i still find the conversation on life on other planets to be pretty interesting)

to add to that, we dont even know that life on other planets has even evolved the same way.

now when i say life, i mean every living being. As most of you know all living beings on earth are determined by DNA. life on earth has evolved that way so that all living creatures here are derived from either splitting of DNA or the combination of 2 gametes containing DNA.

now how do we even know life on other planets has even evolved this way? there is no way to say that all other life in the universe is derived from how life is created here (DNA).

there is also the possibility that there is a completely different set of atoms in another galaxy. they might have types of matter that dont even exist anywhere around here.

Annon · Post by **Annon** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:02 pm

knightmare wrote:there is also the possibility that there is a completely different set of atoms in another galaxy. they might have types of matter that dont even exist anywhere around here.

no

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:28 pm

no i dont mean that atomic #1 isnt hydrogen in other galaxies, i mean that there could be places where you can only find atoms with the atomic numbers 300-400 and you cant find the same type of matter we have here

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:56 pm

While this discussion may be interesting to you it has nothing to do with "horses" or "lore". I suggest starting another thread in the lounge. Because this is totaly irrelevant.

Annon · Post by **Annon** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:00 am

well first of all, all atoms above #92 (U) is very rare and second i wouldn't think there is any planet in the universe that don't consist of 75% the atoms between #1 to #20

Macar wrote:While this discussion may be interesting to you it has nothing to do with "horses" or "lore". I suggest starting another thread in the lounge. Because this is totaly irrelevant.

your right. about this post. Tamriel is fiction as gez said. And there is no reason why thinks on this world should change the lore of tamriel.

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:17 am

yes (back on topic) i agree. we can think of tamriel of what our world could have been but wasnt.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:52 am

You seem to think that Tamriel is supposed to be another planet in our universe. Well...it just isnt really. Its a whole pocket universe in itself as far as I am concerned, as it is connected to different dimensions like Oblivion.

Indoril · Post by **Indoril** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:02 pm

Like Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia, Nirn exists in its own univers and Tamriel is a continent of Nirn. Therefore, it can be reflective of our Universe. As for things being so similar to real life, Humans in the real world are just not creative enough to think up an entirely fictional world. Things have to be borrowed from reality. Example, Neraver's whole story is frighteningly similar to Julius Caeser. Another example would be that if you read enough about the British Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, and the real Roman Empire (Empires if you count the later split), you find that the Cyrodilic Empire is a strange cross of those three. The point is that Tamriel is a pseudo or sur-earth. It isn't the same, but similare, just like how all rappers are not the same, but they all match up about 80%. Case in point, Nirn is not Earth, just Similar as Arda or Narnia are. As for Horses, they are an essential key to anything in western or eastern civilization, so it only makes sense that the empire has them. As for why the decision was made to include them, that was simply Beth's choice.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:21 pm

Actualy Middle Earth is our earth. Tolkein said that it was ours a loooong time ago. Obviously, LOTR isnt a documentary. It's kind of like the "earth" of greek mythos,though. LOTR and it's companions are modern Mythologies.