Approved guilds
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wishmaster
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Anonymous
They do. The necromancers of Scourg Barrow were an insidious group in Daggerfall. They had operatives in literally everything:
http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/arkay_enemy.shtml
Even priests. They befriend kings and everything.
A faction that I think would be worth making, with or without mannimarco.
http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/arkay_enemy.shtml
Even priests. They befriend kings and everything.
A faction that I think would be worth making, with or without mannimarco.
I'd be more interested in discussing necromancers when we're even close to building the land around their little home. At the moment, they're not the highest on my list of important factions, so if we are somehow in a better state as far as quest makers go, then I'm all for a small necromancer faction.
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Nomadic1
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Alright. There is no religious faction, but religion will be worked in through misc quests and other factions. While there is support for a necromancers' faction, the concensus is to wait until we get to that map to see if there is manpower to spare to make it a faction. Have I got that right?
Still four to go:
1) Wharf Rats. In Hammerfell (Lore). Joinable Faction or Not?
2) Political Factions. How to handle? (between the kingdoms is where the real big action lays in Hammerfell)
3) Daedric Shrine Quests. Yay or Nay?
5) Sword Singers (as joinable faction). Yay or Nay?
Still four to go:
1) Wharf Rats. In Hammerfell (Lore). Joinable Faction or Not?
2) Political Factions. How to handle? (between the kingdoms is where the real big action lays in Hammerfell)
3) Daedric Shrine Quests. Yay or Nay?
5) Sword Singers (as joinable faction). Yay or Nay?
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Eyeball88
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Wharf Rats need a presense, I do agree. But I see them as more small-time dangerous criminals than a force worth joining. Maybe they're at war with the Thieves Guild, but have absolutely no moral problems with murder/rape/armed robbery to advance their own goals.Nomadic1 wrote:Alright. There is no religious faction, but religion will be worked in through misc quests and other factions. While there is support for a necromancers' faction, the concensus is to wait until we get to that map to see if there is manpower to spare to make it a faction. Have I got that right?
Still four to go:
1) Wharf Rats. In Hammerfell (Lore). Joinable Faction or Not?
2) Political Factions. How to handle? (between the kingdoms is where the real big action lays in Hammerfell)
3) Daedric Shrine Quests. Yay or Nay?
5) Sword Singers (as joinable faction). Yay or Nay?
Political Factions, to me, still really hinges on how much of the Crown vs Forebears rivalry we decide to focus the main quest on. For simple "political quests" purposes, perhaps various quests from the noble families in each city that advance your cause with one ideology or the other, leading to a point where each quest chain requires that you do something to completely alienate the other half, perhaps by killing off an important noble.
Having all 16 Daedric Shrines seems like it would be a little much to work with. I wouldn't mind seeing a few of them scattered around, but I think Dwemer-related quests (not quite "shrines" but similar) would be more interesting, and appropriate.
And while the Swordsingers seem to be a "Redguard-only" cult, I don't think you need to join a faction and advance through it's ranks to advance it's story/cause. I believe they should be important to the main story, but not a faction one can join.
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The Old Ye Bard
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Can't edit the first post, but here we go, officiation time. Any complaints can be posted and reposted all you want, I promise I will consider them.
Fighters Guild - Approved Duh.
Mages Guild - Approved No contest!
Thieves Guild - Approved for great victory.
Dark Brotherhood - Approved
Pirate Crew - Approved on the condition that it uses one ship with one crew. The player ascends through this crew's ranks. Another important detail is that the captain needs to be a Redguard female. The NPC will be provided to the questmaker on a CD in an envelope found inside the seat cushion of their seat at the Broadway performance of The Phantom of the Opera.
Necromancers - If we have time while in the region, but not an enormous province-encompassing quest or anything similar, approved Another condition is that it is without Mannimarco. I cite our stance on Seht, the Dwemer, and the Falmer. No, evidence has been put forth by Bethesda suggesting that he is alive. We must assume that whatever the player experiences actually happens unless otherwise stated. We question enough of what the player is told as it is.
Swordswingers - Approved. but at the lowest priority by far.
Arena - Approved for Sentinel and Dragonstar. Dragonstar might be a very interesting omelette when we get to it.
Wharf Rats - I do not object to their existence and fully support it, but don't believe they should be joinable.
Daedric Shrines - No. Already done anyway.
Politics - I put forth that this is the mainquest. That's open to discussion which does not belong to the Approved guilds thread.
Fighters Guild - Approved Duh.
Mages Guild - Approved No contest!
Thieves Guild - Approved for great victory.
Dark Brotherhood - Approved
Pirate Crew - Approved on the condition that it uses one ship with one crew. The player ascends through this crew's ranks. Another important detail is that the captain needs to be a Redguard female. The NPC will be provided to the questmaker on a CD in an envelope found inside the seat cushion of their seat at the Broadway performance of The Phantom of the Opera.
Necromancers - If we have time while in the region, but not an enormous province-encompassing quest or anything similar, approved Another condition is that it is without Mannimarco. I cite our stance on Seht, the Dwemer, and the Falmer. No, evidence has been put forth by Bethesda suggesting that he is alive. We must assume that whatever the player experiences actually happens unless otherwise stated. We question enough of what the player is told as it is.
Swordswingers - Approved. but at the lowest priority by far.
Arena - Approved for Sentinel and Dragonstar. Dragonstar might be a very interesting omelette when we get to it.
Wharf Rats - I do not object to their existence and fully support it, but don't believe they should be joinable.
Daedric Shrines - No. Already done anyway.
Politics - I put forth that this is the mainquest. That's open to discussion which does not belong to the Approved guilds thread.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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The Old Ye Bard
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[quote="Nomadic1"]
I am 99% sure there would never be an Arena faction (although there might a few arenas where the PC can fight). It would be more work than you think though. There is an Arena in Dragonstar. We could probably scatter a few around the place in the major cities.quote]
It wouldn't be that hard, maybe time-consuming though. I suppose it might take while to get someone to say what you will be fighting correctly, but for the most part you would just have to program the reappearance timing and leveling and things. That's what me and my friends did, anyway.
Is this for the parts using Morrowind or Oblivion?
I am 99% sure there would never be an Arena faction (although there might a few arenas where the PC can fight). It would be more work than you think though. There is an Arena in Dragonstar. We could probably scatter a few around the place in the major cities.quote]
It wouldn't be that hard, maybe time-consuming though. I suppose it might take while to get someone to say what you will be fighting correctly, but for the most part you would just have to program the reappearance timing and leveling and things. That's what me and my friends did, anyway.
Is this for the parts using Morrowind or Oblivion?
Quit looking at me. Yes, I am aware that my shirt is dirty. So what?
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Nomadic1
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I think we should add more arenas. Think about it. We are going to be starting in Rihad. Sentinel and Dragonstar are probably the two regions we'll be doing last. So I reckon we add one or two more in other major cities: either Rihad, Taneth or Gilane; and also either Elinhir, Skaven or Hegathe. We don't have to have only one or two just because Oblivion only had one or two (depending on how you count Kvatch).
As for the Wharf Rats lets add them as the opposing faction to the TG. Unjoinable, fine by me.
As for the Wharf Rats lets add them as the opposing faction to the TG. Unjoinable, fine by me.
Or we could change the size of the arena. Why start out at the best venue? Why not have fighting underground beneath a tavern in Rihad? It could have its own interior cell, so that solves the issue of taking up space. It can also be added later seeing as how you don't need to plan for the exterior. It may take new meshes, but thats something we can think about.
I'm jack's complete sense of concurrance.
About the Sword-singers, need they be a red guard only faction? Is there anything in lore that says that no redguard can practise the art either because they lack the ability or are just not taught out of policy?
Perhaps the sword singers of new are too few and to deperate to continue their art to be picky about who they train, as long as doing so will continue the tradition.
I just think it would suck to have to start a new character to check them out is all.
About the Sword-singers, need they be a red guard only faction? Is there anything in lore that says that no redguard can practise the art either because they lack the ability or are just not taught out of policy?
Perhaps the sword singers of new are too few and to deperate to continue their art to be picky about who they train, as long as doing so will continue the tradition.
I just think it would suck to have to start a new character to check them out is all.
P.S. Please don't make handbags, wallets, belts or shoes out of Orix [img]http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3826/orixmj4.png[/img]
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Anonymous
On the necromancy thread...I have adapted the storyline so that Mannimarco isnt dead. He is still a god, hence the fact that you can still make black soul gems even thoughhe is supposed to have returned...if he had actually failed then black soul gems wouldnt be around.
I would like to propose a sort of all-encompassing 'illegal faction' for all our smuggling, wharf rat, pirating needs. This would be hidden from the player, and feel much more like a rise in underworld and 'street rep' than the structured advancement of the Thieves Guild.
I think that not only would this tie up several proposed questlines into one, easily manageable, (monthly), quest, it would also have a lot more flavour than the whole 'do this quest to be promoted'...promotions would be hidden, and finding the job would be just as much fun as actually doing it.
EDIT: A simple progression tree could go like this...
You are (invisibly) marked as a 'wharf rat' if you steal something and share it with a beggar. You will be asked by beggars around the docks to steal petty items.
After a while, people in taverns might let you ask them about 'work', opening up missions involving smuggling.
After some smuggling missions, which would take you all over Hammerfell and be found in any down-and-out tavern, you might be allowed to join the pirate crew.
Eventually, rich merchants will approach you about decent missions, like tough thefts and complicated smuggling. You would effectively be a crook for hire.
EDIT 2: Another alternative necromancer plotline could be the Temple of Arkay...rather than joining the necromancers, you are hunting them. More delicate than the mage guidl thing because they are integrated into society. Also more difficult because these arent newbies...this is the citadel of all necromancy, filled with liches and highly advanced undead. At least this way, all the research and translation that Amrod and I have done wouldnt have gone to waste.
I would like to propose a sort of all-encompassing 'illegal faction' for all our smuggling, wharf rat, pirating needs. This would be hidden from the player, and feel much more like a rise in underworld and 'street rep' than the structured advancement of the Thieves Guild.
I think that not only would this tie up several proposed questlines into one, easily manageable, (monthly), quest, it would also have a lot more flavour than the whole 'do this quest to be promoted'...promotions would be hidden, and finding the job would be just as much fun as actually doing it.
EDIT: A simple progression tree could go like this...
You are (invisibly) marked as a 'wharf rat' if you steal something and share it with a beggar. You will be asked by beggars around the docks to steal petty items.
After a while, people in taverns might let you ask them about 'work', opening up missions involving smuggling.
After some smuggling missions, which would take you all over Hammerfell and be found in any down-and-out tavern, you might be allowed to join the pirate crew.
Eventually, rich merchants will approach you about decent missions, like tough thefts and complicated smuggling. You would effectively be a crook for hire.
EDIT 2: Another alternative necromancer plotline could be the Temple of Arkay...rather than joining the necromancers, you are hunting them. More delicate than the mage guidl thing because they are integrated into society. Also more difficult because these arent newbies...this is the citadel of all necromancy, filled with liches and highly advanced undead. At least this way, all the research and translation that Amrod and I have done wouldnt have gone to waste.
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Anonymous
Okay I might as well go more indeapth then.
This would be a pseudo-faction that deals with illegal activities other than just major theft and assassination. There are no guildhalls, no ranks and no real members. The Faction system is simply used to manage your reputation in the criminal underworld, which is hidden from the player.
I think it would work well using the old fashioned rank system, with each 'rank' opening up a new quests or new forms of quest.
These are topics I would like to cover:
Smuggling
Piracy
Petty Theft
Extortion
Blackmail
Prostitution (the whores of Stros M'Kai are very interesting to talk to
Drugs
Organised Crime
Each of the missions would have quests in each major city. You eventually end up with a veritable criminal empire. You dont have to do all of the missions: as long as at least one is completed in each city, you can get the next rank. If for example, you are doing the drug missions in Rank 2, you could switch to extortion near the end. Each mission would have its 'startup' quest, which would be getting the contacts and resources to set up anywhere.
Rank 1 would be achieved by stealing something for a beggar, like a loaf of bread. From then on random beggars would ask you to steal for them. A sorta Robin Hood type thing.
Rank 2 would open up the first few crimes: Smuggling, Extortion and Drugs. Smuggling missions would be aquired by talking to certain people (ie smugglers) in waterfront taverns about 'honest work'. Finding the guys would be half the fun. Extortion jobs would be found by asking around in a similar fashion, but would be focussed on getting money and goods off shopkeepers. Drugs would involve securing supplies of the raw materials, employing alchemists, setting up a lab, etc.
Rank 3 would be open up the next three sets of crimes: Blackmail, Prostitution and Piracy. Blackmail is essentially Extortion with more finesse, but would also encorporate kidnapping missions. Prostitution (yes its in lore...) would involve setting up a brothel. Piracy...well you get the picture...yarrr...
Rank 4 would only be available to someone who has completed about half of the other missions from ranks 2 and 3 and has things like drug labs, brothels or smuggling dens in every city. It would be a very king-pin type scenario. Insert cotton wool into cheeks now...
Or something like that. Im trying to maintain the illusion that the player is free: I want the player to think that he is just doing miscellaneous quests, so when he realises that he has in fact been doing a faction mission all along, that he will be quite surprised.
This would be a pseudo-faction that deals with illegal activities other than just major theft and assassination. There are no guildhalls, no ranks and no real members. The Faction system is simply used to manage your reputation in the criminal underworld, which is hidden from the player.
I think it would work well using the old fashioned rank system, with each 'rank' opening up a new quests or new forms of quest.
These are topics I would like to cover:
Smuggling
Piracy
Petty Theft
Extortion
Blackmail
Prostitution (the whores of Stros M'Kai are very interesting to talk to
Drugs
Organised Crime
Each of the missions would have quests in each major city. You eventually end up with a veritable criminal empire. You dont have to do all of the missions: as long as at least one is completed in each city, you can get the next rank. If for example, you are doing the drug missions in Rank 2, you could switch to extortion near the end. Each mission would have its 'startup' quest, which would be getting the contacts and resources to set up anywhere.
Rank 1 would be achieved by stealing something for a beggar, like a loaf of bread. From then on random beggars would ask you to steal for them. A sorta Robin Hood type thing.
Rank 2 would open up the first few crimes: Smuggling, Extortion and Drugs. Smuggling missions would be aquired by talking to certain people (ie smugglers) in waterfront taverns about 'honest work'. Finding the guys would be half the fun. Extortion jobs would be found by asking around in a similar fashion, but would be focussed on getting money and goods off shopkeepers. Drugs would involve securing supplies of the raw materials, employing alchemists, setting up a lab, etc.
Rank 3 would be open up the next three sets of crimes: Blackmail, Prostitution and Piracy. Blackmail is essentially Extortion with more finesse, but would also encorporate kidnapping missions. Prostitution (yes its in lore...) would involve setting up a brothel. Piracy...well you get the picture...yarrr...
Rank 4 would only be available to someone who has completed about half of the other missions from ranks 2 and 3 and has things like drug labs, brothels or smuggling dens in every city. It would be a very king-pin type scenario. Insert cotton wool into cheeks now...
Or something like that. Im trying to maintain the illusion that the player is free: I want the player to think that he is just doing miscellaneous quests, so when he realises that he has in fact been doing a faction mission all along, that he will be quite surprised.
The basics still sound great. But I think there should be two, not one big one. But one for piracy, smuggling and drugs and one for the others you mentioned. Eventually they would both lead to organised crime only in different kinds of business.
I think it would be especially nice if you could become a sort of kingpin and could continue working but then by leading. So not just needing several businesses to get to the highest rank but also be able to expand until you're the greatest crime lord in the land.
Also I don't know about the Robin Hood type thing, this doesn't seem to fit in with the rest because most crimes would be used for self-enrichment. This wharf rat thing should be seperate from the others I think.
I think it would be especially nice if you could become a sort of kingpin and could continue working but then by leading. So not just needing several businesses to get to the highest rank but also be able to expand until you're the greatest crime lord in the land.
Also I don't know about the Robin Hood type thing, this doesn't seem to fit in with the rest because most crimes would be used for self-enrichment. This wharf rat thing should be seperate from the others I think.
I've already described my opinion of piracy and see no reason an invisible version would be better than the straightforward "join the crew and advance." Please explain and understand that I was totally serious about the captain thing. I also am interested in the faction being easier to make.
As interested as everyone seems to be in some invisible illegal faction, I'm not convinced. Jale described it as some structured misc quest, but in terms of how it is made it is nothing more than yet another faction. I agree completely with Morden, we don't have the resources to make a bunch of factions. Please understand that our weakest arm has always been quests. We simply don't have the manpower to use on every cool idea that comes around.
As interested as everyone seems to be in some invisible illegal faction, I'm not convinced. Jale described it as some structured misc quest, but in terms of how it is made it is nothing more than yet another faction. I agree completely with Morden, we don't have the resources to make a bunch of factions. Please understand that our weakest arm has always been quests. We simply don't have the manpower to use on every cool idea that comes around.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Eyeball88
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How do Fighters/Thieves/Mages guilds work, across provinces? Let's assume you take an established character that has become the head of any/all of the three guilds, and go to Hammerfell. Does your grandmaster character get assigned to rat duty at the Fighter's Guild? Stealing 20g earrings for the Thieves? There have already been places in Oblivion where being the grandmaster of one guild has ruined the immersion of the other: If you become the head of the mages guild, and go do the fighter's guild, the fighters will send you to be an errand-boy of a low-level mage. You, the head of their order. There are maybe two or three more cases where this becomes an issue; one at least that I experienced for Thieves/Mages.
So, do the guilds work together and share resources across provinces, and a provinces guild master is treated with the utmost respect? Or is it a situation of "Well, you're the grand-master of our branch in Cyrodiil, huh? Nobody cares, go scrub toilets." Do we focus on this at all, from an immersion point of view? Maybe make the quests for the three guilds in Hammerfell for post-grandmasters from Cyrodiil? Fewer quests, but more challenging for the player? Or do we just think of 20 odd quests for each guild, leading up to some sort of climax?
Would the act of shunning those three guilds be a bad thing, if we could advance the flavor of other factions, like Jale's criminal king-pin scenario? The Mages Guild is a smaller force, and are avoided by all the native Redguards. A post-GM questline to drive out the necromancers in Scourg Barrow and starting to build the trust of the average citizen might be worth pursuing, instead of 20 odd quests leading up to Guild-Master v2.
So, do the guilds work together and share resources across provinces, and a provinces guild master is treated with the utmost respect? Or is it a situation of "Well, you're the grand-master of our branch in Cyrodiil, huh? Nobody cares, go scrub toilets." Do we focus on this at all, from an immersion point of view? Maybe make the quests for the three guilds in Hammerfell for post-grandmasters from Cyrodiil? Fewer quests, but more challenging for the player? Or do we just think of 20 odd quests for each guild, leading up to some sort of climax?
Would the act of shunning those three guilds be a bad thing, if we could advance the flavor of other factions, like Jale's criminal king-pin scenario? The Mages Guild is a smaller force, and are avoided by all the native Redguards. A post-GM questline to drive out the necromancers in Scourg Barrow and starting to build the trust of the average citizen might be worth pursuing, instead of 20 odd quests leading up to Guild-Master v2.
Either high-ranking characters don't have any work in other provinces or we give them a seperate shorter quest. I'd prefer the latter.
The problem is that, while leveling and all makes it easier to deal with, we can either decide to have it be for low level players or high level players. I believe that low level players should be our main audience, because it doesn't take any effort to create a low level character.
The problem is that, while leveling and all makes it easier to deal with, we can either decide to have it be for low level players or high level players. I believe that low level players should be our main audience, because it doesn't take any effort to create a low level character.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Eyeball88
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I'm just wondering, though, about the feasibility of removing the dependence on those three guilds as a levelling tool in favor of newer guilds that offer the same benefits (Thieves -> Wharf Rats would offer just as much potential for sneak/steal quests, but bring a new flavour that the other provinces haven't had)
Edit: This is not to say that we should remove those guilds, because they have a presence everywhere. I am simply wondering if we could lessen their stranglehold on everything. In Oblivion those 3 guilds dominated everything. Couldn't we do ~5 quests for each, and then focus on two other factions with the depth that Bethesda focused on those guilds previously?
Edit: This is not to say that we should remove those guilds, because they have a presence everywhere. I am simply wondering if we could lessen their stranglehold on everything. In Oblivion those 3 guilds dominated everything. Couldn't we do ~5 quests for each, and then focus on two other factions with the depth that Bethesda focused on those guilds previously?
I acknowledge that this is entirely opinion. To me, the Trinity of Thieves/Fighters/Mages has changed little in the Elder Scrolls games that I have played (dabbled in Daggerfall, did everything in Morrowind, almost done it all in Oblivion) and, while they are traditional, some 'new blood' might be interesting in a province like Hammerfell.Sload wrote:The only other argument is entirely opinion. Do you prefer to try the same quests with a new wrapper or to keep using the old one? I personally prefer the old one, but that's just me.
Last edited by Eyeball88 on Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
How is someone who is so powerful that they're the head of a guild doing rat quests for a different guild realistic? It isn't. There's no way to deal with ubers who want to come and play quests designed for newer characters. They can either do them even though they're boringly easy, or they can create a new character.
The only other argument is entirely opinion. Do you prefer to try the same quests with a new wrapper or to keep using the old one? I personally prefer the old one, but that's just me.
The only other argument is entirely opinion. Do you prefer to try the same quests with a new wrapper or to keep using the old one? I personally prefer the old one, but that's just me.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Eyeball88
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I edited my post with a reply to yours but I figure that, since it doesn't show up as a new reply, it wouldn't get any attention. So, read up 
The Thieves Guild is my main focus, because most of my characters tend to be thieves, or assassins. What about having very few Thieves Guild quests, that focus on removing the Wharf Rat problem, but give you the option (without telling you that you have it, no holding of the player's hand) to join the ranks of the "wharf rats" or whatever, working your way to the top, then assimilating the two in an unstable alliance that prevents all-out war and alley-way rumbles?
These are just quickly jotted thoughts, I have to leave for work so I don't really have time to flesh anything out.
The Thieves Guild is my main focus, because most of my characters tend to be thieves, or assassins. What about having very few Thieves Guild quests, that focus on removing the Wharf Rat problem, but give you the option (without telling you that you have it, no holding of the player's hand) to join the ranks of the "wharf rats" or whatever, working your way to the top, then assimilating the two in an unstable alliance that prevents all-out war and alley-way rumbles?
These are just quickly jotted thoughts, I have to leave for work so I don't really have time to flesh anything out.
I'd personally rather leave the whole writing of three and four different questlines the player can follow to the mainquest.
Also, there really isn't an alternative to any guild except the Thieves Guild, and that is the one that I think we can make the most interesting. It really got a refresher in Oblivion, and is set up awesomely.
Also, there really isn't an alternative to any guild except the Thieves Guild, and that is the one that I think we can make the most interesting. It really got a refresher in Oblivion, and is set up awesomely.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Anonymous
Nomadic: I agree on that one.
Sload: Yes in workload it is another faction...but so is the Pirate crew, and this just gives far more scope for clandestine activities. We could cut this down to effectivly a half faction too by having fewer quests.
The manner in which it is really different is how you actually get the quests. No 'go to questgiver, get quest, return to questgiver'. It would involve finding the poor end of town, asking around in a tavern, finding someone with a job for you, convincing them to give you the job and then getting paid on delivery (for a smuggling one).
I think I made that plan there a bit TOO structured. I wanted it to be very free.
Sload: Yes in workload it is another faction...but so is the Pirate crew, and this just gives far more scope for clandestine activities. We could cut this down to effectivly a half faction too by having fewer quests.
The manner in which it is really different is how you actually get the quests. No 'go to questgiver, get quest, return to questgiver'. It would involve finding the poor end of town, asking around in a tavern, finding someone with a job for you, convincing them to give you the job and then getting paid on delivery (for a smuggling one).
I think I made that plan there a bit TOO structured. I wanted it to be very free.
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Eyeball88
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Of all the ideas I've heard about Hammerfell, and indeed any of the TES guilds combined, the idea of becoming the kingpin in an empire of crime seems the most appealing to me. It fits the gritty reality of Hammerfell's criminal population, and also allows us to do a lot of things that have never been done in an official TES game.
To associate with the mafia or any criminal organization, you need to start in the small time crime and gain the trust of those around you. I can't really picture a non-structured guild advancement chain. I imagine that starting at the bottom, with the "wharf rats" you would mostly be moving smuggled goods. Similar to fencing, everything you smuggle has a value attached, and only so much will be smuggled in every night. For example, it should be easy enough to script a different drop-off point for every day of the week. The player picks up a sealed crate of goods and has to bring it back to the hideout. Guards will be on the lookout for suspicious activity so you'll have to use the back alleyways to get to safety.
The next step could be having your boss assign you a small base of operations (a tiny house with storage room of a few crates and a tiny hidden compartment for the hard stuff, a sitting room and a small bedroom) from which you need to start a small drug shack. Keep it well supplied, defend it from one or two rival gang attacks, find someone trustworthy to take over the sales and then just find out which guards can be bribed and which ones you can persuade with some quick thinking. The final mission of this rank could involve framing a rival gang and leading the guards to their base of operation.
As in Jale's description, prostitution, blackmail and assassination could be the next step up: Forming a brothel, furnishing it, finding women to fill it (some might have to be kidnapped,) digging up the dirt on the nobles and the guard captains, and killing a few people who ask the wrong questions (with a few in your own faction to move you up the ladder.)
From here, Jale's final step of setting up a brothel, drug house and whatever else in every city, then using it all to build yourself an impressive mansion.
While this all seems horribly grand, it is not out of step with the lore, and on top of that, it will be a remarkably fun and unique experience. I would play this above all other factions, and I'm sure most other people would, if not out of a general desire to play the bad guy then just because it's so new and unique.
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A diverse single-ship pirate chain seems to work well as a seperate entity; I think the biggest mistake we can make with that faction would be to have it "end" when you become the captain. Interacting with your crew like you can interact with your first-man in the Fighter's Guild needs to be explored almost as deeply as the quests building up to it, because nothing is more disappointing than climbing to the top and then setting it on a shelf out of boredom. Organize raids on shoreline settlements, board merchant vessels to take their goods, etc, this could be the ultimate "I'm sick of the main quest, I'm going to check up on my crew" faction.
To associate with the mafia or any criminal organization, you need to start in the small time crime and gain the trust of those around you. I can't really picture a non-structured guild advancement chain. I imagine that starting at the bottom, with the "wharf rats" you would mostly be moving smuggled goods. Similar to fencing, everything you smuggle has a value attached, and only so much will be smuggled in every night. For example, it should be easy enough to script a different drop-off point for every day of the week. The player picks up a sealed crate of goods and has to bring it back to the hideout. Guards will be on the lookout for suspicious activity so you'll have to use the back alleyways to get to safety.
The next step could be having your boss assign you a small base of operations (a tiny house with storage room of a few crates and a tiny hidden compartment for the hard stuff, a sitting room and a small bedroom) from which you need to start a small drug shack. Keep it well supplied, defend it from one or two rival gang attacks, find someone trustworthy to take over the sales and then just find out which guards can be bribed and which ones you can persuade with some quick thinking. The final mission of this rank could involve framing a rival gang and leading the guards to their base of operation.
As in Jale's description, prostitution, blackmail and assassination could be the next step up: Forming a brothel, furnishing it, finding women to fill it (some might have to be kidnapped,) digging up the dirt on the nobles and the guard captains, and killing a few people who ask the wrong questions (with a few in your own faction to move you up the ladder.)
From here, Jale's final step of setting up a brothel, drug house and whatever else in every city, then using it all to build yourself an impressive mansion.
While this all seems horribly grand, it is not out of step with the lore, and on top of that, it will be a remarkably fun and unique experience. I would play this above all other factions, and I'm sure most other people would, if not out of a general desire to play the bad guy then just because it's so new and unique.
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A diverse single-ship pirate chain seems to work well as a seperate entity; I think the biggest mistake we can make with that faction would be to have it "end" when you become the captain. Interacting with your crew like you can interact with your first-man in the Fighter's Guild needs to be explored almost as deeply as the quests building up to it, because nothing is more disappointing than climbing to the top and then setting it on a shelf out of boredom. Organize raids on shoreline settlements, board merchant vessels to take their goods, etc, this could be the ultimate "I'm sick of the main quest, I'm going to check up on my crew" faction.
A secret commune of the Learned Elders of Queston has resulted in this decision. I fully support the Thieves' Guild being less noble than it was in Cyrodiil and partaking in maphia-style organized crime. It is still the Thieves' Guild and not some invisible faction.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Anonymous
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The Old Ye Bard
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I just had a really good idea about guilds for hammerfell, what if we do two questlinesfor each guild, one for characters that have already joined cyodil guild (they would have to become guildmaster), the second one would be for characters that didn't want to join cyodil guild but wanted to join hammerfell guild (this would block joining the cyodil guilds).
At the end of the hammerfell version of the guild they would become guild master of hammerfell.
At the end of the hammerfell version of the guild they would become guild master of hammerfell.
Not sure. On the one hand, it means doubling the work load. On the other hand, if someone is already the guildmaster of the imperial province, he's the big boss of them all -- all provincial guilds depends on the HQ in Cyrodiil -- and thus shouldn't even be given errands at all.The Old Ye Bard wrote:I just had a really good idea about guilds for hammerfell, what if we do two questlinesfor each guild, one for characters that have already joined cyodil guild (they would have to become guildmaster), the second one would be for characters that didn't want to join cyodil guild but wanted to join hammerfell guild (this would block joining the cyodil guilds).
At the end of the hammerfell version of the guild they would become guild master of hammerfell.
Not exactly sure what you mean, but their explanation for why they work totally differently from the Gray Fox or the Morrowind guild would be that "The Thieves' Guild is just a name. We don't have anything to do with the guilds in other provinces. Not even that pansy Fox in Cyrodiil or the sugarheads in Morrowind."Jale wrote:Im happy with that. Perhaps dialogue should hint that people don't really know its the thieves guild, but it none the less is.
What an enormous addition to the amount of time that would cost us. We should simply suggest they create new characters for Hammerfell. I cannot support that idea when I've been against new factions because of the workload they add.I just had a really good idea about guilds for hammerfell, what if we do two questlinesfor each guild, one for characters that have already joined cyodil guild (they would have to become guildmaster), the second one would be for characters that didn't want to join cyodil guild but wanted to join hammerfell guild (this would block joining the cyodil guilds).
At the end of the hammerfell version of the guild they would become guild master of hammerfell.
We don't actually know this, I think. We may've just assumed it to be true and repeated it over and over (unless it's in one of those books about the guilds, I never read them). However, I do agree that the guildmasters shouldn't be given quests and they would be wise to use a new character.Not sure. On the one hand, it means doubling the work load. On the other hand, if someone is already the guildmaster of the imperial province, he's the big boss of them all -- all provincial guilds depends on the HQ in Cyrodiil -- and thus shouldn't even be given errands at all.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
Maybe guild masters or high-ranking characters could be skipped to the mid-level quests. They have a reputation but they still have to prove themselves. "This isn't Cyrodill, boy. We do things differently out here."
That way high level characters will have something to do but they wont be reduced to killing mudcrabs or playing delivery boy.
That way high level characters will have something to do but they wont be reduced to killing mudcrabs or playing delivery boy.
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Eyeball88
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I'm still a little iffy on the idea of "You can't enjoy Hammerfell unless you start a new character." But I honestly can't see any real way around it. It's a lose/lose situation.
While this isn't really a guild matter, it's related to this discussion: How do we address the Main Quest? Is Hammerfell's main quest an extension of Cyrodiil's? A completely different entity? It's hard to explain what I mean without spoiling the plot, so
SPOILER:
We assume that, at the end of Cyrodiil's MQ, the Septim line is broken. The Oblivion gates are closed, but there is no emperor, only a high council.
We can assume that Oblivion gates pop up all over Hammerfell during this period, and that they will close at the end of Cyrodiil's quest. Where do we go from here? If Hammerfell's main quest has something to do with "The Emperor's Death = Perfect Time for the Crown faction to try for secession!" Unless we keep the Hammerfell MQ seperate, something like "The Bastard Necromancers at Scourg Barrow have successfully resurrected the long-dead Hrunding, you have to kill them and put them out of operation." It seems like it might be really hard to have a fluid pre Cyrodiil MQ or post Cyrodiil MQ quest chain.
/SPOILER
While this isn't really a guild matter, it's related to this discussion: How do we address the Main Quest? Is Hammerfell's main quest an extension of Cyrodiil's? A completely different entity? It's hard to explain what I mean without spoiling the plot, so
SPOILER:
We assume that, at the end of Cyrodiil's MQ, the Septim line is broken. The Oblivion gates are closed, but there is no emperor, only a high council.
We can assume that Oblivion gates pop up all over Hammerfell during this period, and that they will close at the end of Cyrodiil's quest. Where do we go from here? If Hammerfell's main quest has something to do with "The Emperor's Death = Perfect Time for the Crown faction to try for secession!" Unless we keep the Hammerfell MQ seperate, something like "The Bastard Necromancers at Scourg Barrow have successfully resurrected the long-dead Hrunding, you have to kill them and put them out of operation." It seems like it might be really hard to have a fluid pre Cyrodiil MQ or post Cyrodiil MQ quest chain.
/SPOILER
Yes. Misc quests are fine for all levels, though it might feel wierd helping farmers fend off goblins if you're uber. Guild quests, however, are clearly different, and I think we can agree that designing them for characters who aren't already super powerful is the best solution - anyone can have a level 1 character.I'm still a little iffy on the idea of "You can't enjoy Hammerfell unless you start a new character." But I honestly can't see any real way around it. It's a lose/lose situation.
I propose, first, that we have an unfinished mainquest in mind. Political unrest from the crowns? Sure, all hell broke lose before the gates opened. I heard them talk about bad news from the provinces before I got to Jauffre and before it was widespread news that Kvatch went kapow. We could also have some misc quests involving the gates and overall make the gates more interesting. Maybe Azura decided to lend her forces to the attack on the Abecean.While this isn't really a guild matter, it's related to this discussion: How do we address the Main Quest? Is Hammerfell's main quest an extension of Cyrodiil's? A completely different entity? It's hard to explain what I mean without spoiling the plot, so
We assume that, at the end of Cyrodiil's MQ, the Septim line is broken. The Oblivion gates are closed, but there is no emperor, only a high council.
We can assume that Oblivion gates pop up all over Hammerfell during this period, and that they will close at the end of Cyrodiil's quest. Where do we go from here? If Hammerfell's main quest has something to do with "The Emperor's Death = Perfect Time for the Crown faction to try for secession!" Unless we keep the Hammerfell MQ seperate, something like "The Bastard Necromancers at Scourg Barrow have successfully resurrected the long-dead Hrunding, you have to kill them and put them out of operation." It seems like it might be really hard to have a fluid pre Cyrodiil MQ or post Cyrodiil MQ quest chain.
But that's off-topic anyway.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Anonymous
Hey, Romulus, welcome to TR. That post was made many months ago, eight in fact, and refered to a faction being discussed at the time. He was actually refering to making an Arena faction on the Morrowind engine, because TESIII doesn't have an Arena.
Always check dates, or you could be replying to someone who hasn't even been here in over a year!
Always check dates, or you could be replying to someone who hasn't even been here in over a year!