Official Hammerfell Architecture Concepts

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:22 pm

Its a nice city building/tower... not a turret, wall tower, or some other fortification. The concept is fine. We can adjust it to fit height and view limitations, but the concept is solid Nomadic.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:39 am

Nomadic: what's wrong with having unusual buidings for aesthetic purposes? I did not have such a tower in my mind built as an observatory in times of war. Islamic countries are full of minars, and if the interiorisation of city cells in Oblivion prevents us from modelling high buildings, I'll be rather dissapointed. Besides, why not have a guy up there sreaming his lungs out when something important happens? These are all of my arguments, if they're not enough the concept might still have a use; if you remove the column and keep the first and second floor, it can become a mausoleum, if Redguars have such buildings.

But making Hammerfell totally minar-less? a pity...

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:42 pm

We can make full sized Minar.. but it also means making it so that the NPC can never get to the top, unless its in an exterior cells.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:04 pm

Don't forget that any building (well not any but almost all) must be smaller then White Gold Tower (the one in the middle of Imperial city).

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:20 pm

El Scumbago wrote:Islamic countries are full of minars

I can testify to that. To this day they are still used- though a shouting man is replaced with a loudspeaker and it's no longer a way of transmitting news. It a key facet of any mosque. 5 times a day they sing "the call to prayer" over the loudspeakers (the first as early as 4 am!) With a mosque on every corner singing in it's own key, the result is quite cacophonous.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:42 pm

Well why not make minars unclimbable...like a ladder in there that you cannot get up. Then have an NPC at the top who just stands there shouting.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:58 pm

Jale wrote:Well why not make minars unclimbable...like a ladder in there that you cannot get up. Then have an NPC at the top who just stands there shouting.

"HEY! HEY! CAN ANYONE HEAR ME? HEY, SOMEONE TURNED OFF THE LADDER ACTIVATOR AND I'M STUCK. SEND FOOD!"

I'm quite fond of the idea of a very tall Minar (not White Gold Tower tall) and I would be disappointed if we didn't keep them around. If the player can't go past the first floor (and can't levitate) it can still look incredible.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:06 pm

I'd like to have them too.. just need to figure out a believable way to block the PC from accessing anything past the second floor.

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:11 pm

A closed hatch, which is locked and when you unlock it, you can open the hatch, but the ladder is on the floor where player can't get access to

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:18 pm

A rope, dangling from the top. Ya see these redguard priests are spry fellas, and you cant shimmy up a rope like them

.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:27 pm

I dont understand why we need to keep them from going up...

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:30 pm

Macar wrote:I dont understand why we need to keep them from going up...

The first reason is the same reason that you can not travel to the top of White Gold Tower in Oblivion, and one of the reasons they removed levitate. All cities are "interiors" (and sectioned ones, at that) and the world outside of the city walls is an extremely low detail world, to save rendering time. If you could climb to the top of White Gold Tower, you'd see maybe a few tree sprites, and the ground would be horribly horribly pixelated. Same with the Grand Minar.

The second problem is that, if each of those 4 viewing levels of the Grand Minar were to act as an exterior that a player could explore at his leisure, the poly count would be huge. Each level would have to have high poly pillars, fences, textures, etc.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:09 pm

well, one could make it like the palace, with no acces to the outside...

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:20 pm

Im downloading the Redguard Demo, which if it works should let me wander around the main island of Stros M'Kai, so I will try to get some useful screenshots.

I just guess we cant let people get a look out of the tower. Just make all the doors locked with messages saying 'this door's lock is jammed' or 'something else is blocking this door'...that kina thing.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:17 pm

Just lock it with a key and don't place the key itself anywhere in the game world. The same thing Beth did with Orrery.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:12 pm

Okay I've managed to get Redguard working on my PC. Screenshots are tricky because I have to take a Print Screen of my computer and then save it via paint, and theres a big floating 'GLIDOS' logo because im on a free emulator, but I can get servicable screenshots of some buildings. This is the only one I managed to get this time round, before I knew there was no screenshots file, its the enterance to the Palace:

[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/PalaceEnterance.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/th_PalaceEnterance.jpg[/img][/url]

It's a bit of a wierd place. The palace is huge...its like 3/4 of the size of the town. There are a lot of imperial buildings around, but it feels like a very segregated community. The island was obviously at one point fortified, but all the walls are now ruined so you only get little stretches. Id say the town is about the size of Balmora.

I will try to get some more screenies...there are a lot of neat little architectural things which we should have, especially the pool thing from the old part of town.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:18 pm

Please take this to the Hammerfell Architecture thread Jale. This space is for discussion of the official concepts.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:26 pm

There isnt one...or if there is, I and the search feature cannot find it.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:30 pm

I got the name wrong. Here it is. It already contains images of redguard among other things.

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=14921

salmonix · Post by **salmonix** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:33 pm

On aradic architecture and objects some ideas can be found at:
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm/FuseAction/ProcessSearch/istSearchKey/arabic

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:17 pm

Archs and narrow alleys 4 ever, I love that kind of stuff.

The purpose of this post, except of the expression of my admiration for this kind of architecturation, is to provide information for our modellers (couldn't fit an -ation to the word modellers).

Here's the concept description doc. updated for the stuff to come.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:07 pm

And the first post has been updated again.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:53 pm

Excellent update. Especially the color and texture data... makes it seem like a much more cohiesive style.

salmonix · Post by **salmonix** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:14 pm

El Scumbago wrote:Archs and narrow alleys 4 ever, I love that kind of stuff.

The purpose of this post, except of the expression of my admiration for this kind of architecturation, is to provide information for our modellers (couldn't fit an -ation to the word modellers).

Here's the concept description doc. updated for the stuff to come.

If I may...

The outer piers of the bridge are statically not stable. If those are the end-piers leaning to some rock it can be ok but with more articulated half-arches on each end.
I have not seen brick-base for stone. Maybe I'm wrong, but the opposite is more common.

If bricks mean in many spec. mudbricks its is fine. In dry lands mudbrick - with or without stone foundation - is pretty common material. Unfired, because wood is expensive. This gives the soft contours to those houses. This is plastered, and in cases painted eg.blue, white, yellow, but I have seen pink (that was ugly). Also painted decoration can imitate more complicate stone mouldings of the wall or the gates/doors.

Nalzay · Post by **Nalzay** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:43 am

hey, I have been really buisy lately (well I was buisy till a few weeks ago, then I got Oblivion

) But I am trying to get back in form (and model higher poly now that we are moving to the oblivion engine) So I have a rough version of one of the buildings. The only texture detailed in the readme was the plaster, I dont know if it is all meant to be plaster, but I put a few placeholder textures in. I still havent added windows or doors, or the back garden, just thought I'd ask about the textures. Here it is so far (it is all modular as the detailed picture outlines):
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/nalzay/front.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/nalzay/all/1.jpg

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:07 am

It's pretty hard to judge without the textures and the windows/doors. As for textures, I think plaster should cover most of the building. The pillars in front should have inlaid tiles as well as the top edge.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:09 am

Looks like a good start

You might want to make it a bit taller though - the arches look too "fat" and low. Either that or just add two more columns in either side and skinny them up a bit.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:26 am

The building is a rich one, a manor, so I suppose there should be plaster all over it to cover the stones or mudbricks. I was thinking of something along the lines of white walls and a red/blue dome, with red/blue stripes on the arch part. And I'm afraid the columns are indeed a bit fat (that's my bad though).

Nalzay · Post by **Nalzay** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:41 am

So white plaster, thinner columns, red and blue dome and columns. got it, just didnt know what to put up.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:10 am

Red or blue? I disagree. These with white would give a very new look, while a sandy color lined with gold would give a rich but antique appearance to it.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:19 am

I disagree. Go blue or red as they will give this building true style. There's a lot of alternatives you can use: that blue-green copper, tiles, paint, etc. White buildings are the richer ones, so they can afford to show off a bit.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:46 pm

I imagine the pure gold or pure white domes will be reserved for royalty or religious buildings, so the large palaces or "mosques."

salmonix · Post by **salmonix** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:46 pm

Wasn' it mixed climate and mixed cultural background?
Some reality hints - of course can be neglected:
well, even climate does it. a mountanous area tends to use stone. a desertous land mudbrick - if water is available. if not - no architecture, only nomads.
in a dry land flat roof is common. in a moderate area ridge-roofs mostly. (to make a flat-roof waterproof is not that easy.)
in a sunny, desert area a city with narrow streets, sometimes partly joined houses above creating tunnels between the houses (as in El Kasr in Egypt eg.) helping the ventillation. Vaults are common, as multi storey buildings, even of mudbrick.
I think modules would do and then their combination.
3-5 base cubic forms are combined in those architectures - except the more elaborated public buildings. these are decorated 3-4 types of windows, 3-4 types of simple mouldings at the doors and that is all for public buildings.
I'm looking for some pics. from egypt, oasis architecture.

Nalzay · Post by **Nalzay** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:50 am

Here are finally a few versions. I started to try to fix it and ran out of gas before, but I just did this in like an hour. I dont want to do textures for the columns until a color is finalized. I will also work at sload's suggestion and others, so we can see all of them and make a decision.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/nalzay/perspred.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/nalzay/perspblue.jpg

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Leaving aside the textures, I can say I like it a lot. But the concept you made it from can now be regarded as vague and simplistic, so if you have enough spare time you might want to help Morden and Eyeball with the new sets. I can promise the artwork will be a bit more interesting and perhaps challenging...

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:10 pm

How about some domes have a mosaic? I got the idea of a square pieced mosaic, maybe making a simple design, like a flower... I'll put up a concept later. I was thinking this would work well for rich people who can't quite afford golden roofs.

Also, looking closly at some Redguard screenshots, I noticed that the poor houses have very badly shaped bricks with a dark, thin layer of mortar connecting them, not stucco or whatever. Probably someone wrote this, but I couldn't find it, so if that is the case, sorry for this paragraph.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:13 am

This thread has become rather outdated unfortunately. E_S is working his magic on new concepts for Rihad now that we're better organised for Oblivion. We'll need help though well the time comes.

Nalzay · Post by **Nalzay** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:22 am

yeah, I started to do this one to get my touch back. It had been a while, and I just want to get back in form for when we start official stuff. But I want to finish this one and make it look decent. So is there a certain color you like more?

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:52 am

I like the blue, but I think the columns should be more than just one solid color.

Nalzay · Post by **Nalzay** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:53 pm

Do you mean, more than one actual color, or just give it some depth? because I was planning to take the colors and make a real texture that is similar to the pillars in the concept the current textures are just placeholders till a color is decided, but I can try adding another color into the mix too, to see how it looks. What do you have in mind?