NPCs and Map1

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:20 pm

I understand now..Massey is Drew Carey!

*-*Note from Massey: Don't Spam in my thread please!

- Note from Haplo: Massalinie is a Global Moderator and has the ability to take care of SPAM in any thread herself.

~~ Note from Sload: Sload is a Global Moderator and can do whatever he wants to Dytoc.

- Note from Haplo: For those not in the know, Dytoc is also called Massalinie.

~~ Note from Sload: She's also square.

*-*Note from Massey: You guys suck

- Note from Haplo: Actually you suck.

*-*Note from Massey: I have no issue with that comment

- Note from Haplo: I'm grossed out now.

*-*Note from Massey: You shouldn't be, it's perfectly normal

~~Note from Sload: Stop it.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:12 pm

You might as well forget the possibility of me doing a town. I am moving in two weeks, but I forgot that the computors will go ahead, and I'm certain that I can't finish a town in a weekend.

Anyway, good luck with this, I might as well go full steam ahead on a personal project while I still have my comp. I'll still visit these forums, I'll bring a laptop, but I won't be able to do any modding.

*edit* Ignore that, I still have one week, so away I go!

*edit*

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:23 am

All NPC submissions will be reviewed, so this should not be a problem. I will accept any dialogue submissions for unofficial review, and as I am American, I'm pretty confident in my American spelling.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:35 am

I'm thinking of taking Ranyon-ruhn, it is small and Telvanni.

First I'll need to know everything I can about it. For example: Is the Telvanni... patron mad? He is naked, excepting his glass cuirass and loincloth, and who is the second tower named after? Also, I might try and fit in a bit of history for the Dancing Jug, namely that the Telvanni founder used telekenisis to make a jug dance around a table as entertainment, hence the name.

*edit* I'm not getting much in the way of Lore, not from this forum at least, I did a search but all I got was: Low taxes, etc... as the patron is kind. I'm still not sure if he's mad or someone just forgot to give him cloths... Also, I heard mention of the town being low in cash, though I may have read that wrong. Either way, that wouldn't be a bad idea to add in... If you know any place with good information please post a link. I can't believe I got so little but, in my search, came upon information of a historical battle for another city in map 1! Also, any mention of NPC personalities would be nice, such as the patron being kind, that means I should give him a benign tone. Speaking of which, am I also doing the Telvanni tower, or just the town? Any other interiors or exteriors I should work on? *edit*

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:14 am

It'd be best if you took care of everything within those town exterior cells. That means any towers nearby, all interiors, and maybe caves or something if there are any nearby; I still havn't checked out that town yet. Then we wont have any missing NPC dialogue and it'll all be taken care of.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:02 pm

Caves come under filler ints, they are NOT part of the town

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:01 pm

But the Ranyon-Ruhn mine, that connects to a building, so I'm guessing I do that too?

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:50 pm

Yes, are you claiming Ranyon Ruhn then? It was unclear to me.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:19 pm

Oh, yes I am. Sorry, I thought it was approved so I already started work, but now I realise it wasn't. Hope you don't mind.

Anyway, I might as well write down what I've done so far: I've started with the trader, I only remember the initials: K.D. He has a tendancy to state the obvious in a slightly demeaning way. As I was working, I discovered tons of problems. First, where to you report map errors? a border didn't match up. Now for things concerning this thread:

There is no shrine in the temple, not even an alter, I was wondering if it would be added, so that I can add it to the dialogue.
Then there are two Alasha Koris, and she's the owner of the Dancing Jug! What should I do about this, I can't have the other one talking about the Dancing Jug tavern when she's at Port Telvannis! I have noticed a lot of this in the lists, but I think that's the only case that concerns Ranyon-ruhn.
Also, none of the ownership is set. Alasha Kori has plenty of food and drinks in a back room, but none of them link to her. Even if they did, unless they were made to respawn you would only be able to buy, let's say Greef, three times!

Finally, some questions: if I am allowed to continue with Ranyon-ruhn, do I do the whole renting beds thing? And if so, minus or with the script?
Also, with... let's say specific place, does everyone say the same thing, not very good as K. D, would then say: "There's the outdoor trader, K. D., and beside him..." Or will you have everyone say the same thing except those mentioned, so K. D. would say "There's me, and beside me is..." while everyone else will say: "Then there's the trader, K. D. ..." Or will everyone have a unique dialogue?

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:07 pm

Massalinie wrote:Caves come under filler ints, they are NOT part of the town

Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware of that, but now I am.

Response for Gnomey, I -think- we're going to do unique dialogue, but nothing too complex or this project will take way too long.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:14 pm

Ok firstly, yes you can have Ranyon Ruhn.

Secondly, report map problems to Dexter I guess, he's head of exteriors unless he's not working on Morrowind at all. In which case I guess It'd be Ludovic since I know precisely dick about exteriors

Next, add a shrine or alter or both to the temple and make a note of them in your readme (if you don't have a readme, create one and record any other such changes) You can also make sure that all the NPCs have ownership which should have been done before but apparantly not, and also delete the duplicated NPCs and write it down too.

Finally, yes you will also be responsible for setting up the shops and the rented rooms. And as for the booze supplies, the NPCs of course always have extra stuff on their person. The stocks on the shelves will only disappear when all other ones have been sold out and the ones they are holding will be renewed.

Damn it, I always forget something. Yes, each person needs to be unique as possible. You CAN use some generic dialogue for example from commoner to commoner you will want to use the same dialogue for the "specific place" topic etc but they will of course have to vary for the shopkeepers etc.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:24 pm

Ok people, there's been a slight change of plans.
Nobody should have changed anything on map1 yet anyway because I said to write the dialogue and send it to me first, so this shouldn't be a problem.
The dialogue people will now ONLY be responsible for editing the dialogue. This means no trade or any other scripts, no movement of objects, no changing of placement or adding of objects. You will still record such errors in a readme and send it to me or Lud ASAP.
After the dialogue and other fixing is done, all the files will be merged and we should have our final version of map1. It will then all be tested and fixed before release.
Let's get this done people, we're almost there!!

Also, PLEASE make sure you are using the most recent map1 file, a new one has just been uploaded today. Don't worry once you start but just before you do, double check to make sure it's the right version.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:55 pm

I'm a little sure of what to right for the Ashamul cave. Can someone give me a few ideas, or would it be worth someone with even the slightest experience to do it instead?

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:20 pm

New map one today?

I guess I'll copy my dialogue into wordpad, no, doesn't have a spellchecker, I'll have to look into that. Anyway, I'll get as much work done as I can, and I have not yet touched anything other than dialogue, so that should be fine.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:13 am

Port Telvannis Slave: <Rumor>

"I'm afriad that they might ship us Vvardenfell. I hear terrible things happen there with Theranna."

That's just a quick thought, I've got to check out a claim real quick.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:38 am

I would like my unofficial claim on Ranyon-ruhn to be revoked, too much is happening in RL for me to do much work in it. I have hardly done anything yet, so the next claimer will have to go from the start.

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:29 am

I don't know if this has been changed, but I noticed some stuff at Firemoth around the castle - A couple floating "archer windows" and there was this one wall of the castle that was sort of butted up against a very steep mountain/hill... Well, perhaps the hill should be moved away or the wall changed or something, because the crenelations in the top battlements seemed a bit redundant and out of place... my suggestion would be to make the wall larger, or farther away, or move the hill. Whoever does dialogue for Firemoth might be able to fix this...

As for me, I'll begin work on Port Telvannis today.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:33 pm

I suppose you mean Firewatch.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:41 pm

Gnomey: alright, your efforts are appreciated anyway. We all have times when other things take over our lives.

ENEHBOHDEH ELSE WON 2 CLAME SUMTHIN?
-Insert from Haplo- This is Massalinie speaking in Trekkie.

And yes, I believe Casey meant Firewatch. Lud is currently working on fixing such problems I believe, thanks for noting it.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:51 pm

Another thing. Don't overuse action emotes. I've checked this over. Most NPCs in the original game do not use action emotes often.

With that said, I think this is a really good idea, most NPCs in Map 1 have like three topics, and they're all the same.

I will be happy to work on some small town. Bal Oyra would be nice for me

But of course, Ludovic will be cutting my head off, ripping it open and eating my brains out if I don't start doing the reviews he gave to me a month agon..... *shivers in fear and runs to the review board*

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:42 pm

Right, I want to see progress reports from everybody with a claim.
Jale also just told me that he was dropping his claim
Also, I'm taking Tel Ouada

Firewatch is nearly done, got about 160 responses done

Casey: I'm working on a new Telvanni Council House, so don't make any of the PT dialogue dependant on the cell being the subsections of the council house.

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:02 am

No worries. I'm just working on interior NPCs right now. Services in general. I told Massaline I wouldn't be able to get much work done until I leave for North Carolina in a few days. Nevertheless, I've done some planning and writing for interior dwelling NPCs. Port Telvannis will take a very long time, though, even estimating the faster progress I will be making. Yet, I have set an unofficial deadline for myself, hoping for an early release.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:13 am

Great, Casey.
Thanks

Firewatch is pretty much done. (~250 resonses)

Casey:What level are you doing them to?
Are they full LGNPC-style personalities? Morrowind quality? Somewhere between?
(Firewatch is somewhere between)

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:43 am

Full LGNPC, plus some. I'm toeing the line at giving every NPC 20 pages of dialogue and quests for all.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:46 am

Wow

I think I might have to add some extra personality to Firewatch, just so it doesn't look crap beside yours. I'll give a couple of unique topics and some proper personality to each NPC.

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:53 am

Yeah. This is what I expected from TR NPCs so LGNPC didnt have to go and mod all of Morrowind (I think they would have given up). I'm a fast writer, and I can improv so much stuff, so fast..

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:26 am

I'm dropping my claim of Ashahul. I just don't know what to do with it.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:48 pm

Ashamul, that's the little thing with few NPCs, right? Claiming, then. I want to help, but I can't make dialogues for too many NPCs.

CaseyTucker · Post by **CaseyTucker** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:14 am

You can always offer to do little help for people who already have very large claims... like me.

I've got all of Telvannis to do, and it's huge.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 pm

Massalinie wrote:I'm also encluding all other interiors under "filler ints" there is a list of them that I will give to the person who wants to claim them.

Ashamul only has a handful of NPCs so it will be encluded with the other filler ints in one claim. I thought I made this clear before. There's no sense in having one claims that's waay smaller than all the others. If you want them, claim them though you won't be able to work on much of it until Lud and I finishing finding and merging all the remaining ones. In the mean time you may start work on all the other fillers ints already in Map1 encluding Ashamul. If that's too much for you then let me know and I can maybe split it in half so you can do half and somebody else can do the other, but I'd rather not do that. I don't even recall granting it in the first place...

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:16 pm

I think Lud granted it to me, because unlike most other filler ints it is a small city.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:23 pm

I know, I came up with the idea. But exactly how big is it? How many NPCs are envolved? Because I was under the impression that it was more of a small settlement than a city.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:35 pm

It's a small settlement and I'm working on it.

After discussing with Nomadic and Ludovic, I'll also do some detailing for the exterior entrance, which as it is now doesn't look like the outside of a settlement, but of a random cave.

There are eight NPCs.

By the way, it would help me if I had a version of map 1 where TR_i1-37 Ashahul is properly renamed Ashamul.

In fact, Boethian Mountains Region 30, 14 could be named Ashamul, and the entry cave could be named Ashamul Cave.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:00 pm

Gez wrote:By the way, it would help me if I had a version of map 1 where TR_i1-37 Ashahul is properly renamed Ashamul.

There isn't such a version. The names of the interiors will be changed to their correct names as one of the final steps, please don't change the name.

As for work outside the cave, yes that is fine also.

Please read my post above the last one.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:24 am

Massalinie wrote:There isn't such a version. The names of the interiors will be changed to their correct names as one of the final steps, please don't change the name.

I know I can't. Which is why I would like it done.

Massalinie wrote:Please read my post above the last one.

This one?

Massalinie wrote:I don't even recall granting it in the first place...

I only started once I saw your first post has been edited to give me Ashamul. Maybe it wasn't by you, I don't know. But anyway.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:27 am

Although I've read through this thread, I can't decide whether I should make the dialogue LGNPC level, or Morrowind vanilla level. My imagination is not sufficient enough to make something in-between, so, is there a specific decision about this?

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:48 pm

First of all, Gez: No, it wasn't me who edited my first post it was Ludovic. If you only want to do Ashamul then I guess that will have to do since you've already started working on it. But it would make me really happy if you'd take on the filler ints claim *smiles sweetly and bats eyebrows*

El Scumbago: Ludovic and I are currently working on making this decision, it will definately be above Morrowind Vanilla level but how far we aren't exactly sure yet. One thing we know is that everybody will have to produce dialogue to the same quality.
We've had a few ideas as to what we could do and I'd like to hear some other opinions.
1) We could try to get everything to LGNPC level. Casey for one is capable of this, but I don't think that I'm that creative and I'm sure there are others here the same. This would mean a lot more work and it would mean that the player might have to read pages of dialogue for each NPC which I don't neccessarily believe to be a good thing.
2) We could go for a style similar to that of Morrowind where we make most of the NPCs reasonably simple with a bit of unique dialogue and then have some NPCs that are unique, with full personalities and then if we want to we can add more dialogue and personality to other NPCs later if we want to. This way the work will get done faster and it'll be easier to keep quality control.
3) We give all NPCs an equal ammount of dialogue that it below LGNPC but still better than Vvardenfell.

What I don't want is for this dialoging to turn into "the more dialogue we have the better" I am not a gamer who likes reading pages and pages of dialogue from one NPC. I like reading what they have to say, I like learning lore and I like reading books too but having a full personality does not mean that you have to have tons and tons of dialogue. So we can't just slap in as much drivel as possible and call it 'less generic'. Try to keep it simple and yet different.

If anybody else has a possible idea for howdy to do this then please speak upwards. I won't say what I was leaning towards a guy cause I want you guys to voiceact your opinions first.

Keep up the good work, all.

--Mass--

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:32 am

I'd say, find one or two unique thing per NPC, then "generic" dialogue for the rest.

So, for a city of 40 NPCs, you'll need:

- Little advice
- Little secret
- Latest rumours (possibly several with random100)
- Services
- Background
- My trade
- Specific place
- Someone in particular
- Factions in the area (the player will need to be able to ask about specific guilds individually)
- Other topics for each settlement. These would be linked from the piece named after the town eg: one on the slave market, etc for Port Telvannis
- One for the main leader of each settlement (the local master in Telvanni places and the duchess/governor in imperial areas)
And
- 40 or more NPC-specific stuff. It may be one of the above, or another topic, or a greeting and a new topic.

As an example, the NPCs in Ashamul will react if you talk to them about some quests you've made. For example, one of the NPC is named Bradas Varyon, and we have two interesting NPCs in the game already, Drinar and Drovosi Varyon. Bradas will be angry if you talk about Shurinbaal (where you can find Drovosi Varyon as a hostile smuggler) and she's dead (Shurinbaal is a House Redoran quest, killing Drovosi is not needed but can be hard to avoid); or if you talk about Drinar Varyon after doing the Imperial Legion quest where you arrest him in his home at Ald Ruhn (and Bradas'll be even angrier if Drinar's dead).

It's not a quest in itself, but it makes the game more lifelike if you've done the quests.

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:47 am

That list is almost exactly what I have listed in the first post anyway, I don't know why you wrote it in again :S

Also, as I wrote in the post above yours, and please respond to this question I've asked you atlanta least 3 times now.

Massalinie wrote:Gez: No, it wasn't me who edited my first post it was Ludovic. If you only want to do Ashamul then I guess that will have to do since you've already started working on it. But it would make me really happy if you'd take on the filler ints claim *smiles sweetly and bats eyebrows*

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:51 am

Well... I don't see any question mark trailing behind a sentence I had not responded to, already, so I'm off to guess what is your unquestioning question.

So I guess my answer is: If I have a list of filler ints with people that are supposed to talk, I suppose I can do it. But not I get something like 50 NPCs to do, each in a different cell so each needing their own unique list of dialogues.

And the posted list was in response to this:

If anybody else has a possible idea for how to do this then please speak up. I won't say what I was leaning towards cause I want you guys to voice your opinions first.