Art Contest: Hammerfell In-Game Map

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:37 am

Not Hammerfell, that shouldn't moved at all. If you could draw Highrock more to the east, that would be preferable.

Negrodomous · Post by **Negrodomous** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:22 am

But wouldn't that be inacurate? Oh well, is this what you mean?

[url=http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3296/wip05mw4.jpg][img]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3296/wip05mw4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:36 am

Its more acurate now really, take a look [url]http://til.gamingsource.net/maps/minibigmaproadslore31gv.jpg[/url] Also as you can see you might wanna bend the highrock bit up alittle.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:45 am

http://til.gamingsource.net/maps/n-enc-tamr-map01.gif

What you should really do is overlay this image to get it close. This map is what Bethsoft used to do Cyrodiil and what I used to do the outline (except I smooshed it 5% to the east to fit the LOD limitions).

Negrodomous · Post by **Negrodomous** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:50 am

[url=http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wip06ii0.jpg][img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4598/wip06ii0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I haven't been working much on this, lately... I'm having trouble with the land...

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:00 pm

I think it's looking pretty good Neg. Anyone else working on this contest still?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:27 am

My submission for the contest. I like Negro's HR better than mine. I think this map will look really nice once cities, text and roads are added.

[url=http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmappk4.jpg][img]http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5272/hfmappk4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:50 am

His mountains seem much more like Cyrodiil's than your's Noir.

But also, Karnver Falls is set on a mountain northwest of the Cortens. You also forgot the inland rivers in general.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:45 am

Update:

[url=http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmaprf0.jpg][img]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2460/hfmaprf0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:51 am

Looks fantastic, I especially like how you have created new textures for the desert regions that were not used in Cyrodiil.
And now, for the nit-picking that we discussed in AIM.
I feel that a large amount of consistency could be achieved by observing the boarders of Cyrodiil. Note that in Cyrodiil, where the land meets the water it is lighter than yours. Also, there is a subtle blending of the boarders into the land, sorta like the boarders are smudged into the land, while yours are drawn on pretty boldly.
I think these small changes would do a lot to bring them together.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:39 pm

besides what sload and dexter said (i agree on every point) you used the forest texture of CD in a very large part of HF. HF dosent have that many forests...

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:49 pm

That true LN, one small thing that bothers me about it is the the mis-match of colour between the Hammerfell and Cyrodil maps too. Coming along well though

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:35 pm

The mountains are too obviously clone-stamped. (Duplication method in Photoshop.) And though they may be larger in Hammerfell, I think they should remain somewhat closer to the Cyrodiil map's mountains. Not as dark.

Edit: Noir, could I possibly have a look at yours? I'll add the roads from Zephs map if you like.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:56 pm

Aside from small moves here and there, most of these suggestions, though appreciated, lay outside of my abilities as an illustrator.

[shrugs]

I tried, hopefully someone else will be able to do better.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:17 pm

Well then, I'll play around with yours. Everything is easily editable. Thanks.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:29 pm

Hey, after thinking about it for quite a while, and I know this sounds silly, but I prefer you didn't change my work. I'd suggest starting your own map. If you say everything is easily editable, then I'm sure you could reproduce the same technique I did, which was just edit around the CD map to make a new one.

Thanks for understanding.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:02 am

[url=http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmap2jk5.jpg][img]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8105/hfmap2jk5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Second attempt. The text and roads are completly sepperate from the actual map.

Edit: The "Alik'i Wastelands" will be renamed to "Dak'fron"

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:12 am

I much prefer these mountains, but perhaps they could be more defined somehow? I don't know.

There are two problems with the names. First, the Helkori Mountains is changing. Second, The Alik'r Wastelands should be Dak'fron. There is one problem with the roads you've laid out so far that I can see, and that is that the road from Rihad to Taneth (which mysteriously has no special blank spot like the other cities) should hug the coast.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:17 am

Will do, I will try adding more detail to the mountains and do the proper renaming of regions. I just drew a random road to see if I had the technique down.

What I need next is an official list of what are going to be 'Cities' and what are going to be 'Settlements.'

Then I can start adding cities and roads.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:38 am

Rihad
Taneth
Gilane
Hegathe
Sentinel
Skaven
Elinhir
Dragonstar

But you can't actually draw them until they're made, or else everyone will have to lay them out the way you have it which is not equal to fun.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:52 am

Exterior Moderator: Ofcourse. I wouldn't want to take away the creative freedom of my exterior claimers. However, I would like to have an official list of cities so I can 'finish' 'a' map so that we can release something as a teaser/publicity ploy to get TR some voice in the modding community. If I can get a finished looking map (which will not be our official claiming map) I can ask TIL to host it and put a link to TR. Zeph has done this with his map, but I feel that an in-game map will get more heads turning our way.

My fault for not writing my intention for wanting to add cities.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:05 am

This becomes more delicious every time you update, Noirgrim. It's sure to make big noise on the ESF, no doubt about that.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:21 am

Looks great, Noir. One thing i'm wondering about is the 'county' label. Is that something relative to the political structure of Cyrodill?... and is it something we want to continue with in Hammerfell?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:15 am

I have no idea, but just for our info, the medieval heirarchy in Europe was (from bottom to top)

Household
Barony
Fiefdom
County
Marquisate
Duchy
Principality
Kingdom

I guess using this sort of structure would depend on how much the Empire controls the politics of HF. Obviously they use this structure in CD, and they also do use it by imperially appointed Dunmer in Morrowind, King Helseth and Duke Vanim Dreth (sp). So, I would say if the Empire has a say in who runs the politcal structure in HF, use this list, if not, find another middle-eastern alternative.

This political structure (the Empire running other outlaying provinces) reminds me of the UK around the 14th century, where England had their noble/royalty latter and also had control of Scotland. Scottish nobles were appointed by the Crown of England, even though Scotland had/wanted their own political structure (their independence), very much like Cyrodiil's empire.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:23 am

There are two ways it could be, in my opinion. Redguards are independent, the question is how far down does it go?

First, the Redguard cities could be independent and have relatively total control over their area. They inforce the laws and such and it's their area. No touchy. City-states of sorts.

Or, the Redguard towns control themselves as well. The city-states control the cities and those outside them fend for themselves.

Personally, I think it's the first, though.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:30 am

OMG!

I love it.

Can we get rid of "Province of Cyrodiil" and replace it with "Empire of Tamriel"?

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:08 am

dunno why i haevn't looked here, but Noir....

Just fuckign woah!

And i don't often say that!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:01 pm

the only thing i dont like is the county name things. other then that its fantastic!

[edit] karvner falls is not a major city. (you have it with its own county on the map)

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:31 pm

Sload wrote:
There are two problems with the names. First, the Helkori Mountains is changing.

What are they changing to?

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:49 pm

Noirgrim wrote:
Sload wrote:
There are two problems with the names. First, the Helkori Mountains is changing.
What are they changing to?

The discussion is in this thread:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16632&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=regions&start=40

I don't think it has been decided yet.

MAGETA · Post by **MAGETA** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:06 pm

Eraser wrote:OMG!

I love it.

Can we get rid of "Province of Cyrodiil" and replace it with "Empire of Tamriel"?

would be pretty easy to do so. Maybe should get an answer on that little bit. take it out completely?

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/magetaman/stamp.jpg[/img]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:59 am

[url=http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmap2oe0.jpg][img]http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/6851/hfmap2oe0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Updated with cities and main roads.

Comments, suggestions?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:40 am

The roads are not at all accurate and do not connect to Cyrodiil.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:51 am

I guess its safe to assume that the cities will be changed as built.

Wasn't Dragonstar literally stradlling the Hammerfell/Skyrim border?

Perhaps Principality could work. Up until daggerfall it was a patchwork of kingdoms, so perhaps the major ones might still be considered 'princes' of hammerfell, denoting minor rulers. It sounds a bit more regal, a bit less Cyrodiilic, and fits pretty well with how they would consider themselves, I guess. The word crops up in Hammerfell lore.

Old PGE wrote:Currently, this Palace is the headquarters of Provisional Governor Senecus Goddkey, who has been helping to administer the Forebear principalities since Baron Volag's disappearance...

Formerly the principality of Thassad II's heir, A'tor, Stros M'kai's small island serves as the office of Provisional Governor Amiel Richton,

The Alik'r wrote:All the principalities and boundaries the nations have placed on the land dissolve under the moving sand in the desert.

They probably nabbed the idea from High Rock. Would figure that the main powerful city states would still be called 'principalities' even in a diminished sense. It has much less of a tone of subservience to one ruler. In my opinion drop the county and make them all Principalities, with 'County Sentinel' being the Kingdom of Sentinel.

We also may want to think about road names. The whole gold road thingy is old and inappropriate except for the south.

What happened to the chain islands? (and stirk...)

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:27 am

Dragonstar is in Hammerfell Jale

But County is definately the wrong word. "Kingdom of" is what I'd reckon it would really be, but "Principality of" is a clear second.

One pathetic nitpick I have of my own is the placing of "the Totambu Forest". You should move the writing up to the right a bit more, so that "the" is south of the road and "Totambu Forest" is north.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:04 am

Nomadic1 wrote:Dragonstar is in Hammerfell Jale

No fecal matter, famous fictional detective of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's creation.

During the war of Bend'r-mahk it was half run by Skyrim. East and west dragonstar. Think Berlin 1945-1990 or Jerusalem today. Sentinel's expansion didnt reach that far in the Daggerfall War, so its not a case of 'oh it all changed after the warp'. Even if it is 100% fandabbydozzily redguard at this point in time, I think it should show this 'two city' split clearly on the map, which at the moment, being just a square, it does not. At any rate when it comes to be built, the eastern side should be very skyrimish and the west very hammerfellian.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:25 am

Jale wrote:
Nomadic1 wrote:Dragonstar is in Hammerfell Jale
No fecal matter, famous fictional detective of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's creation.

Hey! You asked if it was straddling the border. It isn't.

During the war of Bend'r-mahk it was half run by Skyrim. East and west dragonstar. Think Berlin 1945-1990 or Jerusalem today. Sentinel's expansion didnt reach that far in the Daggerfall War, so its not a case of 'oh it all changed after the warp'. Even if it is 100% fandabbydozzily redguard at this point in time, I think it should show this 'two city' split clearly on the map, which at the moment, being just a square, it does not. At any rate when it comes to be built, the eastern side should be very skyrimish and the west very hammerfellian.

Mmm... the city is two squares, side by side if Shadowkey is anything to go by. And it is pretty Redguard on both sides, if Shadowkey is anything to go by. But yeah, the map should show the split down the middle.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:10 pm

Wikipedia wrote: Rhetorical Question

A rhetorical question is a figure of speech in the form of a question posed for rhetorical effect rather than for the purpose of getting an answer. ("How many times do I have to tell you to stop walking into the house with mud on your shoes?").

A rhetorical question seeks to encourage reflection within the listener as to what the answer to the question (at least, the answer implied by the questioner) must be. When a speaker declaims, "How much longer must our people endure this injustice?" or "Will our company grow or shrink?", no formal answer is expected. Rather, it is a device used by the speaker to assert or deny something.

36 years ago (during shadowkey) it was split. 37-44 years ago (during arena), it wasnt, but city layouts from back then are...well...useless. Why should it not be a border crossing city.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:11 pm

Here is the link to the Lore thread with the Shadowkey map:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15085

You should probably expand the city by one square.

Also if the city is not on the border, there is the question of how the Nords enter their part of the city coming from Skyrim. Do they teleport there, or do they have their own road through Hammerfell? Should it be shown on the map?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:21 pm

Noirgrim wrote:[url=http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmap2oe0.jpg][img]http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/6851/hfmap2oe0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Updated with cities and main roads.

Comments, suggestions?

Just nitpicks: The upper-case in Stros M'kai, Skaven and Sentinel doesn't fit with those in Skingrad and Skyrim. Bethesda didn't actually like Hesperides' uppercase S and used a lowercase s in a bigger font size instead. Also, you wrote "Helgethe" instead of "Hegathe".