Map 3:Claim 3-12(16,-20) Shrine To Hermaeus Mora [M]

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:15 am

Basically I want to do a shrine to Hermaeus Mora, but I'm new at this, But could I claim
Daedric Shrine (16,-20) and create it there. Also is there a quest taken to get the Oghma Infinium, I figured I'd ask before I post a claim for it in the quest section. If there is other plans for Daedric Shrine (16, -20) is there another shirine I could make this in?

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:57 am

First who is this person you speak of and second I'm granting this but Tell me who this person is before your done.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:55 pm

He is a blob-like Daedra Prince. I think it would be a good idea to create a new statue model for him if you are going to be making him. But, there is one important point here. Hermaeus Mora is not a daedra recognized in Morrowind. He is not worshipped by anyone there. So, I think it would not be a good idea to have a shrine dedicated to him in Morrowind. Wait until we get to a different province.

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 4:57 pm

okay can you pick a different deadra to warship then.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:21 pm

Lore on Hermaeus Mora: He (unusually, that prince seems to have a fixed sex) is a blob-like daedric prince. He looks like a soggoth to me; there are quite some of HP Lovecraft referrences in the daedric princes array anyway (a pic of his from Daggerfall is attached). His area of expertise is "scrying of the tides of fate, of the past and future as read in the stars and heaven, and in whose dominion are the treasures of knowledge and memory", as said in TIL. There are no minor Daedra known to be in his service (so we would need to make some up

). A major treasure associated with him is the Oghma Infinium, a tome of knowledge written by the Ageless One, the wizard-sage Xarses. All who read the Infinium are filled with the energy of the artifact which can be manipulated to raise ones abilities to near demi-god proportions. Once used, legend has it, the Infinium will disappear from its wielder. It leaves one with 50 bonus points to distribute among the character's attributes as one wants.

More generally, I always thought the Chimer (pre-change Dunmer, propably much like Altmer) worshipped daedra in general, all of them, built all those now-ruined Daedric buildings, and then the Tribunal stepped in, united the triÃ‚Â´bes and cults, allied with the most powerful daedric princes (the Anticipations Mephala, Boethiah and Azura, and The House of Troubles), and more or less eliminated the old daedric worship culture? Thus, there might well be a couple of shrines - very old and propably in hard-to-reach locations - that are dedicated to different Daedric Princes.

Although - I'd rather not see the Oghma Infinium as just an item. Was there any text in it in, Daggerfall, I believe? If not, we should make something up; it has a very strong effect (50 points, to disperse at your will between all attributes and skills, if I'm correct), should thus be incredibly hard to get, and have some really good text - I'm thinking of something like the necronomicon, or another obscure, weird, unsettling religious pamphlete.

I'm not against a shrine dedicated to the big Blob. And I'd like to see a custom statue for this shrine, as well as custom - big boss type - monsters (for the quest), done before the shrine should be done. At least the statue would be needed for the landscaping, lest we want to put it at the end of a dungeon, which I would prefer anyway; but then, nobody would know it was a shrine dedicated to the daedric prince of knowledge.

And, all the anticipations and HoT Daedric Prince(sse)s already have shrines. The only one that didn't - to my knowledge - have a shrine on Vvardenfell, Mephala, just receives a big site in claim 4-19/4-17/4-20 (it may cross into each of these, Cep and I still have to descide that).

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:53 pm

The dunmer/chimer never acknowledged the existence of any daedra other than the seven that they worshipped as gods (before the Tribunal), the four "bad" daedra and the three "good" daedra. So, the only way a shrine to Hermeaus Mora could have been erected in Morrowind is if it had been built after outlanders started living there. And then it would most likely be a different architectural style.

I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm saying it is highly improbable in terms of the lore we have.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:01 pm

Can anyone tell me the source that says the chimer/earliest dunmer didn't worship anyone aside from Anticipations and HoT?

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:42 pm

Dunmer worshipped Daedra, I'm sure at least a small sect looked to him to worship.

As for a creature I developed a short story for a group of Dremora that would serve him in this particular shrine.

Here Goes.

From time to time a Dremora is banished by Merhunes Dagon for failing to complete certain tasks assigned to them. These Dremora are mortal and usually end up dieing in the worst possible way involving much pain and agony. Hermeaus Mora being that he can scry the tides of fate, sensed this and granted these Dremora a second chance under his service and gave them a spot to guard this particular shrine.

There would be be 2-3 of them tops, each would have unique Dialogue and a unique story of how they came to be in there current position.

As for the looks of these Dremora's They would look Basically like a normal Dremora but instead of the current tattoe's on there face, I was thinking of like Green tattoes in the form of swirls, to symbolize both there alligiance, and the fact that they were once Banished. What do you think would these be a good creature I'll post about them in the Creature forum, that is if I am permitted to create this shrine for Hermeaus Mora.

I don't really like any of the other Daedra's, aside from Clavicus Vile and maybe Sheograth. So if I can't do Hermeaus Mora I could maybe do Sheograth.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:54 am

Sheogorath would be the best there. He is one of the seven worshipped daedra. Clavicus Vile worshippers exist in Morrowind, but they are scattered outlanders and no dunmer (Fire-Eye at the fighters guild in Balmora and Sorkvild the Raven near Dagon Fel).

To answer your question, Hermit, take a look at this list of dunmer gods from the Imperial Library.
[url]http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/gods/dunmer.shtml[/url]

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:59 am

Sheograth would be the best.

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:25 am

How about this, how about a "joint Shrine" Sheograths shrine will be built near surface level, while Hermeus mora's Shrine will be built Deep into the heart of Nirn. I will also Try and Create the effect that Sheograths Shrine was built over Hermaeus Mora, Kind of like how Mournhold was built on top of that Dwemer Ruin. I really like Hermeus Mora and would really like to Incorporate him into this somehow, But if it is unacceptable I'll just do a shrine to Sheograth.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:49 am

It is not totally unacceptable. But just remember, if there are any Hermaeus Mora worshippers in Morrowind, they will be rare and will most likely be outlanders. There would probably be less than ten of them in all Morrowind. So, maybe these guys go together and made shrine? It could happen. But, since it wasn't made during the same time or by the same people as the shrines to the seven dunmer daedra, Hermaeus's shrine will be a different sort of thing than the shrines we are used to on Morrowind.

Basically, I just wouldn't want to see a daedric ruin to Hermaeus Mora in the wilderness that looks like it belongs there. 'Cause it don't.

As for putting it under Sheogorath's shrine, it might be a possibility. Here is a suggestion: Make it a joint shrine with several daedra statues in it along with Sheo and Mora. This has been seen before, like in Ald Daedroth and under Mournhold, so it makes sense according to lore. However, if it has Hermaeus Mora (or any other non-dunmer daedra), it should not have the chimer-style daedric ruin look that we are used to. It could be made in a well-sculpted cave or a hidden grove or anything else you want to imagine. It just can't have that familiar daedric architecture and still make lore sense, since it would have to be built by oulanders.

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:28 am

How could I make it into a modern Shrine without changing the exterior? I could do the Joint Shrine thing but could I make it like half daedric, and Half Cave like, like it was added onto? Also, I kind of want to seal it off from the rest of the Shrine So Hermaeus Mora could have those guards I described above. Maybe the story to this particular shrine, could be that the other Daedra Worshippers saw These Guards as a threat and as a result sealed off the tunnels to Hermaeus Mora's shrine.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:32 am

That would be fine, just make sure it looks different from other daedric ruins and that you make sure the player knows why Hermaeus Mora is making an appearance in Morrowind

. For obvious reasons, this should be the exception and not the rule. This should be the only Hermaeus Mora shrine in Morrowind.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:47 am

Nautilus is very tenacious and makes some good points. I didn't know that the daedric ruins were built by the chimer.

I've agreed to make a statue for him (even if it only gets used once). Maybe it will be useful in other parts of Tamriel.

Who does worship Mora? Maybe the Argonians? Due to his sphere of influence, I would assume, wizards mainly.

Maybe, instead of a joint shrine, Nautilus could use the traditional ruins and have pieces of a broken statue (like Boethiah) around the Mora statue to show that the shrine is old (and belongs there) but only the statue is new. That could lead to a very cool quest about whoever's statue got busted and Mora having a major conflict.

It just seems like Mora would be too smart to only have a shrine in a cave.

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:38 am

instead of using all the deadric style, you can use a common cave, and put a grey/black statue in it.

Its not much of a shrine but if you only have a dozen worshippers that is the best you can get.

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:49 am

I'm not sure - the daedric shrines may not have been built by the dunmer, after all, their architecture doesn't look anything like any other dunmer architecture. It is even possible that the shrines were built before the dunmer came to Morrowind, in which case, the dunmer beliefs would have no bearing on which shrines are in the area. I don't know of any lore to either confirm or deny this though.

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:58 am

you still need pepole to build that shirne, if he would have had a a funky all out to my new palace shirene he wouldnt have been unkown now, be cause you cant miss such shrine, and because the pepole that build it dont just disapear either whit a leaving any kind of tale.

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:00 am

You're probably right that the Chimer built the shrines (since they were almost certainly built before the tribunal). However, I doubt that, even in the time of the Chimer, not all Chimer believed in the mainstream 3 aedra and 4 daedra. It would not surprise me if a small group built a shrine to some other daedra, perhaps hearing of it from legend, or from other lands. Of course, they would likely be regiously prosicuted, but that's beside the point...

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:04 pm

Nordic and Bosmer cultures acknowledge Hermaeus as "Herma-Mora", the Demon of Knowledge. I don't think that the mainstream of either culture worships them as gods (so there would be no "shrines" ), but there would undoubtedly be covens and cults dedicated to Herma-Mora.

As for the seven worshipped in Morrowind, these are merely the ones which were acknowledged and worshipped by the mainstream back when the dunmer were chimer and the concept of good and bad daedra never existed. If there were worshippers of other daedra, they:

1) Would either have to be outlanders or have outlander ideas.

2) Would not have been able to build a shrine that looks like the ones the chimer built.

3) Would most likely have lived after Imperial invasion, since Morrowind was fairly xenophobic before this time (and still is to a degree).

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:07 pm

mmh, instead of some dummer it might aswell be a cultus (a bad thing) in the imperial legion?

although what are legionairs suposed to do whit knowledge? More something for the guild of mages. Although I'm not sure how tolerant TGM is against cults.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:17 pm

Well, as I said, it is the Nordic and Bosmer pantheons that include Herma-Mora. It is unlikely that very many Dark Elves would get together to worship him, any more than a group of former Christians turned Buddhist would find each other. But, you might find a small coven of Nord or Bosmer Herma-Mora cultists hiding in Morrowind somewhere near and outlander settlement (Lord knows there are enough of them in Morrowind now). I like the idea that the Imperial Legion may contain a few of such cultists.

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:16 am

I've began work on the shrine so far I have the Main part and Sheograth's "Hall of Maddness" completed. I have two other Daedra to do before I get to work on Hermeaus Mora's shrine.

Which other two should I do.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:33 am

Well, if Hermaeus Mora is the only foreign daedra being represented, then either of Malacath, Molag Bal, or Mehrunes Dagon would work well. I wouldn't recommend one of the "good" daedra princes, since they don't really belong next to Sheogorath unless the shrine was built to represent all the seven.

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:03 pm

Alright, I have a question about my claim. Where is the door to this shrine. I can't connect it to the outside world if I can't find the door. The closest door to this claim is at (35, -20) is this the door i am supposed to use?

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:06 am

I really need to know this as I am almost done with the layout and every thing for all the shrines. I'd like to know before I'm done with layout for the Hall's of Patronage, since it is the last shrine I'm building before I start adding all the statics to spruce up the place..

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:35 am

Well, just a little bit ago I went looking for an appropriate Daedra for my witches' covey to worship. (There's a covey in my claim) A little digging in the UESP's extensive pantheon list told me that none of the available Dunmer Daedra were really appropriate for what I wanted. Then I remembered that my covey emigrated from Skyrim and checked the Skyrim list of gods. The results were not satisfying, but in the end I chose Herma-Mora, which could work with a little adaption. Lo and behold, the next thread I check out is about this very god, with a statue already in the works! I was wondering if, when you are done, I could use perhaps the statue for my own Daedric ruin, dedicated to Herma Mora. It would be an ancient place, built by nord cultists during a time when the Nords occupied part of western Morrowind. Or possibly it was built by Chimer as a conventional Daedric place and later converted to Herma Mora's worship. Does this mean the architecture would be different? Just wondering.

Good luck with your thing, Nautilus.

Nehron

Nautilus · Post by **Nautilus** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:23 pm

Well actually Nerhon, the statue is done, if you want it go to the creatures and model section on this forum, and look for something like "Statue of Hermaeus Mora" It was made Vorrheis

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:00 pm

Very cool. I will do that. Perhaps you'd be interested in working on what promises to be a rather unique interior after you're done with your shrine? Habursanipal is a kwama egg mine at first glance, but closer investigation shows it to be mixed in with deep Daedric ruins. The ruins of a shrine to Herma Mora. PM me if you like the idea.

Nehron