What's happening with Necrom?

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:00 am

I know that Veet's Necrom was going to be used at one point - and then that there was some unsurity about wether or not other buildings were going to be used?, (some problem with no interiors for veet's buildings?) Do we know what's happing with it now?

I'm not 100% sure of the lore on this suggestion - but I think this idea sounds really good so i'm going to mention it anyway

Necrom is a Necropolis and lots of really cool looking necropolises (necropoli?) are underground. Dunmer Ancestral tombs are underground and Necrom Is pretty much THE Dunmer ancestral tomb for all of Morrowind is it not?

So why is it not a giant underground city of the dead? Or at least mostly underground. Here's a few screens to help illustrate;

Firstly - a "built-into-the-mountainside-ish-tomby-place"(yes that is the proper name for it)

[url=http://i75.imagethrust.com/images/2vjX/view-image/myra-necropolis.html][img]http://i75.imagethrust.com/t/597057/myranecropolis.jpg[/img][/url]

And here is my Necrom Ordinator In an ancestral tomb;

[url=http://i75.imagethrust.com/images/2rIH/view-image/nectomb-2.html][img]http://i75.imagethrust.com/t/583215/nectomb2.jpg[/img][/url]

Think about it man!!(Said in the Jack Black way)

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:07 pm

Many, many things in map2 will have to be fixed. Necrom is just one of those (walk through Darconis to see another).

Veet's necrom meshes are about fine for exteriors, they just need their holes fixed.

If new interior tilesets are needed for Necrom ints (I think Velothi will do the trick, maybe a bit retextured), then we have plenty of free resources -- the Veldion catacombs, Barabus' graveyard, and Oom Phooyat's arched rooms are all free.

The fate of Necrom will be decided once map1 is released.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:23 pm

Veets Necrom is an impressive city...but there are parts of it that leave me scratching my head - like the pyramid...and the lack of tombs (at least tomb entrances) - and the lack of an expance of wilderness between the cemetary and the city (Incident at Necrom)...

What do others think?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:26 pm

The tombs are underground ya see...

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:53 pm

Veet's necrom confuses us all. It was an early claim... before we'd developed any sort of modding guidelines. For what I remember, the meshes aren't finished and have many errors. It was decided to just rebuild it using the velothi set. I'm not really up to date with Morrowind anymore, but i don't think that was ever started. Dex might have an idea since he's an exteriors man.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:47 pm

I know that the temple was definitely going to be redone, I even remember how it was going to be:

Three round dome-topped towers in a triangle, with a courtyard in the middle. Each tower had a main room with a statue to one of the Tribunal in it. I believe there was a pillar or something in the middle of the courtyard that was a shrine to ancestors.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:18 am

I still have the screen of it somewhere.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:50 am

I'ld love it if Necrom was redone with the proper white buildings. It just adds so much to the atmosphere. I just reckon we should make the effort if we can.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:47 am

Gez has been working on fixing all those buildings so it would sort of suck to not use them after all that work.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:46 am

Lady Nerevar wrote:I still have the screen of it somewhere.

Any chance you could dig it up and post it so i can have a look?

Nomadic1 wrote:I'ld love it if Necrom was redone with the proper white buildings. It just adds so much to the atmosphere. I just reckon we should make the effort if we can.

I think Veets buildings were almost white anyway weren't they? - the walls definitly were.

Jale wrote:Gez has been working on fixing all those buildings so it would sort of suck to not use them after all that work.

I quite like most of the buildings - my main hang-up was with the temple and the lack of ancestral tomb entrances.

I just think it would look pretty good if there was some built into mountainside-ish parts...

Plus i'm not a big fan of the main entrance into the city - how it doesn't line up with the bridge head on and how it isn't as grand as imagined it should look...Don't get me wrong though - I still think it's a very impressive looking city the way veet made it.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:12 pm

I agree, Veet had an excellent design. Just lacking on grandeur to an extent.

What I meant was that some of the buildings don't have interior pieces, and maybe we could make special white interior pieces to match the outside.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:56 pm

Nomadic1 wrote:I agree, Veet had an excellent design. Just lacking on grandeur to an extent.

What I meant was that some of the buildings don't have interior pieces, and maybe we could make special white interior pieces to match the outside.

Isn't that what Gez is doing?

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:14 pm

I think there should be a statue of Lord Nerevar in Necrom - it just needs it IMO.

So i made one;

[url=http://i77.imagethrust.com/images/1jO9/view-image/nerevarstatue-2.html][img]http://i77.imagethrust.com/t/314473/nerevarstatue2.jpg[/img][/url]

I like it and you should aswell...it took me too long for you not to!

Talk to me people

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:26 pm

Looks nice, throw it in Necrom.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:27 pm

Does he have a sword? Because I'd think that the would be a sort of symbol of Nerevar. By the way, how did you think of his features? Is there an ES picture of him, is it just your idea of him?

Anyway, great model.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:34 pm

Yeah - Trueflame would be a good idea to add...what was i thinking?! :O

And - he's my own interpretation of him - he's a better shot;

[url=http://i77.imagethrust.com/images/1jPA/view-image/nerevarstatue.html][img]http://i77.imagethrust.com/t/314562/nerevarstatue.jpg[/img][/url]

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:37 pm

I actualy like it better than without a sword. it just makes him look holier. especialy for necrom he would look strange with a trimphant pose.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:41 pm

Yeah, Necrom is a bit of an issue, and I think that it is well worth devoting resources to finishing it, because if it's done right, it could easily be on eof TR's best cities. Fixing the exterior meshes won't be that big of a job, it'll just be quite a tedious one. For the interiors, a retex of normal velothi will do for most of them, while we can just reverse the polys of the exes for those that don't have any ex.

Nalin, your Necrom stuff looks great, I can see teh place coming to life

Making sure that your armor and statue are added is a must. Would you be interested in doing some texture work on the velothi interiors?

As far as the exterior goes, maybe some re-working of small parts of the ex could lend a bit more gravitas to the city.

For the interiors, we would really just have to search & replace the old velothi stuff with new Necrom retuxured stuff, as well as building a handful of new towers and a couple of tombs.

I have some plans made for what needs to be done for Map2, but I'm not going to be getting into that until I have gotten Map1 beta released. (I'd only be distracted by it

)

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:57 pm

Macar wrote:I actualy like it better than without a sword. it just makes him look holier. especialy for necrom he would look strange with a trimphant pose.

I think you're right - plus i wanted the statue to look mournfull - but still have him look strong - the shield is there because he was the defender of all the Chimer, but i do think the sword would be too much - too agressive looking. - maybe i'll add some more detail to the "shield" - maybe not - it might overdo it...?

And Lud - Thanks for the endorsements!

Increasing the "grandeur" of necrom is something i'd like to have a go at

jackston · Post by **jackston** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:25 pm

Sorry to be a pain-in-the-ass newbie but....what the hell is a necron?

skittles · Post by **skittles** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:30 pm

is that what nerevar orginally looked like?

i dont think bethesda pasted a picture of the original nerevar.

it would just be like seeing a statue of just another dark elf.

jackston:

necrom is the sacred land of tamriel. similiar to jeruesalem or the vatican here in present day. not to say i am religous, but that is what it is like in tamriel.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:14 pm

Not really. The Vatican is Almalexia. There is no Jerusalem. There is no Mecca, but maybe Vivec.

Anyways, Necrom is just the city where they bury their dead. Very important, but not the centerpiece of their religion.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:43 pm

skittles wrote:is that what nerevar orginally looked like?

i dont think bethesda pasted a picture of the original nerevar.

it would just be like seeing a statue of just another dark elf...

That is what Nerevar looked like, But only in my mind. Imagine him to look however you want. He would have looked similar to this though - all that changed with the Chimer/Dunmer thing was skin and eye colour (at least where outward appearances are concerned).
I've never seen a Bethesda released image of Nerevar and as far as i know - there isn't one online...so, for me; this is Indoril Nerevar...

...Though if it really bothers anyone - i could put a helmet on it...

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:00 pm

Beth does have a shrine picture of Neravar, but it is really abstract. Also, it's the same as one of the other saints.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:58 am

Talking of Necrom, what's up with map2 landmass? I'd like to get my hands on some cells and fix the amazing amount of floaters and bleeders there, or decorate them some more. Is there any coordination on this matter?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:33 am

The most important issue with map2 landmass is fixing the seam with map1. Right now, the borders don't match. There's a road for which it is especially noticeable.

The second most important issue is, like it had been for map1, detailing.

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:52 pm

About the statue; I think you should keep it as it is. I was only wondering with the sword as it is his symbol, but it would be out of place in a city like Necrom. By the way, it would obviosly be wise to come to some sort of decision on how the various saints should look like if we'll be making any more statues, I don't think having five different Nerevars is the way to go.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:56 pm

Gnomey wrote:...it would obviosly be wise to come to some sort of decision on how the various saints should look like if we'll be making any more statues, I don't think having five different Nerevars is the way to go.

Good point, having one specific look for Saint Nerevar is important If anyone else want's to show him as they imagine him to look i'd be really interested to see. As for the other saints - well we pretty much know what they look like - the images of them are more clear than the one of Nerevar.

http://til.gamingsource.net/mwbooks/consolation_prayer.shtml

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:03 pm

There has been a Tedders or MK confirmation that Ordinator helmets are a depiction of Saint Nerevar; even though it is possible the design was later a bit modified to look more like Saint Olms, the founder of the Ordinators.

Don't remember exactly, but searching the official lore forum should get the thread. I think it was a thread on the golden masks and their symbolism (both the Ordinator helmets and Dagoth Ur's mask), expanded to talk about the other masks too.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:20 pm

Gez wrote:There has been a Tedders or MK confirmation that Ordinator helmets are a depiction of Saint Nerevar; even though it is possible the design was later a bit modified to look more like Saint Olms, the founder of the Ordinators.

Gez, you're an ES guru! I'm working on another face for the statue now...

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:06 pm

And here it is;

[url=http://i77.imagethrust.com/images/1lkZ/view-image/nerevarstat-ordface.html][img]http://i77.imagethrust.com/t/320353/nerevarstatordface.jpg[/img][/url]

I like it.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:16 pm

There is another model of Vehk's face: the Ash Mask.

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:33 pm

Isn't Vhek Vivec? We want Nerevar. As for the Ordinator helms, I only heard the versions that said it was Vivecs face and the one that said St. Olm's face. But it doesn't look like Vivec and I don't think St. Olms, (though you could test that by putting the helm beside the statue on the St. Olms canton), it might as well be Nerevar.

And I like the new version of the statue, Nalin.

Abramul · Post by **Abramul** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:12 pm

Oops. For some reason, it totally slipped my mind that not only was a statue of Nerevar being discussed, but additionally, a model for Vivec wouldn't even be needed, as he was already in-game...

*bangs head on wall*

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:21 pm

I think Necrom should indeed be one of our most amazing cities and it looks like we have people who are interesting in taking it on. Nalin, for one. I suggest we assemble a team of people to plan and build Necrom. Meshes (if we need them) textures and exterior and then the ints can be put up for claiming by anyone. It has a lot of potential.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:43 pm

If you are positively gagging for a religeous real-world equivalent...

Necrom is to Tribunal worship as...

The Dome of the Rock is to Muslims
Golgotha/Jerusalem is to Christians
The Ganges is to Hinduism

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:42 am

The original plan for the paramid was that it would be the cap stone to a massive underground complex. In the paramid would be public places, priestly offices, etc. Then underneath it would be many layers of halways and tombs. Older, less refined tombs on top; newer ones deeper as the city expanded.

There were also a couple of ideas about Necrom being mostly empty of remains on account of the building of the Ghost Fence.

And some talk of the Tribunal temple possibly only having nominal control over the city (since ancestor worship is a much older and deeply rooted religion).

*This is all from the spring/summer of 2003, because I left in the fall.

(Here is a discussion I found: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=7349&highlight=necrom)

But if Necrom needs a rework, it might as well get a redisgn too.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:54 am

Gnomey wrote:Isn't Vhek Vivec? We want Nerevar. As for the Ordinator helms, I only heard the versions that said it was Vivecs face and the one that said St. Olm's face. But it doesn't look like Vivec and I don't think St. Olms, (though you could test that by putting the helm beside the statue on the St. Olms canton), it might as well be Nerevar.

And I like the new version of the statue, Nalin.

I found back [url=http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=533784]the thread[/url]:

MK wrote:Not to step on anyone's toes here or take sides, but the Ordinator helmets were indeed intended to be replicas of the holy visage of Lord Indoril Nerevar.

MK wrote:Not to step on anyone's toe or take sides, the Ordinator masks *may* have become associated with the holy visage of St. Olms at a later date, as he was obviously very dear to them. I'm not sure about the lore on that.

Post by **Gnomey** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:20 pm

That sounds about right. Again, St. Olms does have a statue and I'm pretty sure he looks nothing like the ordinator helms. Which I actually think strange, as wouldn't the sculpter of St. Olms have made him look more like the helms? Instead he has the playable head three or five.

About the pyramid; How does the lower part look like? As in is it shaped like a continuation of the pyramid, an upside-down pyramid or completely random layout like other tombs?