The Showcase

[PoHa!]

This has bugged me for a while, actually. I think we either need to reinstate a showcase moderator (not me, sorry) or encourage modders to post more feedback to others. I've seen too many showcase threads that had something along the lines of "won't anybody reply? feedback please?"

Maybe I'm biased because I started my stint as a moderator for the showcase, or maybe that gives me more insight, or maybe I'm just overeacting.

In any event, I seriously would start looking at the showcase forum as I often as I used too (ie every time I log in, make an attempt to download anything and everything posted and immediately give feedback if possible, or PM moderators of other areas for feedback), but this semester is a little more time consuming than last semester was for that sort of thing.

But maybe that's what I'm seeing? Everyone getting to busy with RL/other things to keep up with Showcase?

Even if we don't vote in a new Showcase Moderator, then I think we should at least designate someone to coordinate things... inform people of threads in their respective areas, PM admins when they think someone REALLY needs to be promoted, etc..

Last, I think this should be discussed in the Private Tavern should everyone else decide that I'm not overeacting/too biased/pulling things out of a hat.

There. I said it. And I feel better.

[Noirgrim]

Yeah, let's discuss it there, want to move this post to the PT?

[Macar]

I would like to have the power to promote. Because when I see someone I want on the project- I dont want to have to bug anyone about it.

I dont mind assuming responsability for all music showcases- and even sound. It would be nice if all moderators could do that. But I understand that 99% of our auditions are interiors- and the interior moderator has enough to worry about.

[El Scumbago]

Macar's idea is nice, it'd be nice if the moderators could promote the people they see as worthy, and whose work is the same as the moderators'. Perhaps it's too much though, a mod can just pm an admin when he's sure he found a talent in the showcase.

For starters, let's post something in the PT to announce that all of the TR Modders must give feedback to "showcasers".

[Amrod]

I had a plan to make separate usergroups for each department and make the respective heads of those departments moderator of these groups (so they can promote them, these groups will all have the same privledges as TR modders). However, there were some flaws in this plan.

First of all moderators can't give out titles, so they would still need to ask an admin to give the title. Second of all, this would put more work onto the heads of each department, as they'd have the responsibility to add members to their usergroup. Third would be the problem of what to do with current TR modders, we would probably have to reorganize them so that they get into the right department. Last but not least, we all know that modders sometimes like to do more then just one thing. Putting them into groups might give the idea that they can work for only one department. I want to make clear that it is not the intetion to limit modders to on area.

Number 1 can probably be fixed, but that will take some time, which i'm already short on. Number 2 is something that all moderators will have to agree on, because they will have even more work to do. Number 3 is a one-time, time consuming job. 4 I don't know, we could add modders to more then one group, but this would just mean even more work.

I discussed this with PoHa! he pointed out most of these flaws, and it made me seriously doubt this plan. I thought I'd post it anyways.

The easiest fix would probably be to give GM's the ability to promote members and give them the "TR Modder" title. But since this is not possible in standard phpBB, I will have to find a way to fix that, but currently the new website is my main concern.

[Macar]

I didnt meant that we put them into seperate groups- just promote them as poha does- is that not doable?

[Sload]

It is if we have an account we all have the password for running the promotation thingy mo bobby.

[PoHa!]

I didnt meant that we put them into seperate groups- just promote them as poha does- is that not doable?

Currently, I'm still set as the moderator over the "TR Modder" usergroup, which is the only reason I'm able to promote. As Amrod pointed out, there's some sort of hiccup/bug/problem/incapability with giving more than one GM that same position. Or something to that effect.

It is if we have an account we all have the password for running the promotation thingy mo bobby.

That could work. In that event, should we not have more exact "ground rules" for when to promote and when not too? I mean to say that currently, there's not much structure to the showcase forum either. [url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16687]Dexter's post[/url] seemed an attempt to give the showcase more structure and meaning, but it doesn't seem to be followed very much either.

I discussed this with PoHa! he pointed out most of these flaws, and it made me seriously doubt this plan. I thought I'd post it anyways.

Actually, I liked the idea, but if it was going to be implemented, I wanted it to be done right (not that I have the final say anyways, but you were asking my opinion ) and the different aspects thought through. The most prominent of which was the "I'm an interior modder now! oh... wait, can I make an exterior too?" situation. Of course, the new website should take precedence, and that idea can wait, IMO, while we can already get a less time-consuming fix in place.

For starters, let's post something in the PT to announce that all of the TR Modders must give feedback to "showcasers".

As in... forcing them? Or did you mean "should" instead of "must" ...?

[El Scumbago]

Force them, of course. Stalker will be the leading enforcer, since he's served as a slavedriver.

[PoHa!]

Okey, well, its been a while, and if anyone objected to this being moved to the Private Tavern, you had your chance.

So what does that mean? That means that you, TR Modders, can see this. That means that you have achieved that status, and finally, you know what it takes to mod for TR. So please, if you have the time and energy, please help out the new members. It'd be appreciated by the community as a whole, as well as by the new member. Give!

That also means that you, as TR Modders, get to give your input on this semi-important issue. So please, post what you think.

Also, I think I should add and double add that Reviewers are not the only ones that can give useful feedback to showcasers. This has come up again and again... it annoys me that some people still think thusly... [/rant]

[Nanu]

We have a pseudo-set of guidelines for the Showcase. But a few things should be done.

First, whatever happened to that REALLY long sticky about what interiors to make? You know, the one that Stalker posted. It had a bunch of great stuff in there.

Second, Sload's idea sounds like the best to me. Make an account that is head of the modders, and give the moderators the password. That is, unless Amrod feels like rebuilding the forum.

And finally, when someone does step up and try to help, don't get onto them for doing so. I was helping with showcase for a while, giving suggestions to improve it: namely the pushing the Head of Showcase position into light. All I got in return was angry PMs from moderators. I bear no resentment, but I'd like to think that we can work together on this.

We do, however, need some guidelines. I've seen some people get promoted recently that didn't need to be. I've also seen some great talent go to waste because we didn't pay them any attention.

[/rant]

[Haplo]

I think making Parted User the person in charge of TR Modder usergroup and giving the core the password is a good idea.

[Serric]

I think the single account for all mods would be the quickest and simplest...just keep it simple, you can come up with a more elaborate system later if you need to.

[PoHa!]

I think making Parted User the person in charge of TR Modder usergroup and giving the core the password is a good idea.

Well, that part makes perfect sense to me. But what about these two parts? Any thoughts?

I've seen too many showcase threads that had something along the lines of "won't anybody reply? feedback please?"

...

Even if we don't vote in a new Showcase Moderator, then I think we should at least designate someone to coordinate things... inform people of threads in their respective areas, PM admins when they think someone REALLY needs to be promoted, etc..

[Nanu]

I've seen too many showcase threads that had something along the lines of "won't anybody reply? feedback please?"

Yeah, I've seen a bunch of those come through.

I've also seen some great talent go to waste because we didn't pay them any attention.

That problem can be solved via either a SM or a coordinator for showcase.

Assuming we go that route, the person we pick needs to have free time to look over the showcases and be a good judge of character. The person also needs to be familiar with the project and know what we're looking for.

I'm willing to review any lit that is put in Showcase and recommend them based on that. I also have an idea as to how that forum is ran, as it was my baby for a while.

[Massalinie]

I think making Parted User the person in charge of TR Modder usergroup and giving the core the password is a good idea.

I agree, this way when a Moderator feels that somebody should be promoted for their area, they can promote them quickly and easily so they don't get bored waiting.

Without a showcase mod, the other moderators HAVE to be paying attention to the showcase. Lately, as PoHa said, some members have been ignored and it's no good. I know for one thing modellers seem to be a long time in the showcase, has Eyeball been paying attention to them? I haven't really been reading those threads so I don't know.

[PoHa!]

There are, right now, as I type this, Showcase threads not getting feedback, and they haven't for a while. It saddens me, because they're not even that low on the list.

Right now, I'm without power in my apartment, or I would currently be looking at one or two of them; or maybe not. I am a rather busy individual, both for TR and otherwise. I likely wouldn't have found them if I hadn't been strolling around in different areas of the forum.

I really do feel that reinstating someone as a showcase moderator, who's sole duty at TR is the checking of showcases, giving feedback, informing people who might know more about particular areas than he/she, and promoting worthy members, would vastly revitalize the showcase forum.

Every other moderator has something that they're working on, or they're finding things to work on, and checking on the showcase just falls down lower on the list than others (I know, I'm guilty of this as well). Even if we do the parted user thing, that won't help with people checking the showcase as often as it should be checked, because everyone is busy.

Can we PLEASE get a showcase moderator? Please?

[Lud]

I know I don't pay near as much attentionas I should to the showcase, but I agree with PoHa!
If it's nobody's problem, it's everybody's problem. We're missing out on lots of talented people.

[Morgoth]

I actually think that if the moderators were given the power to promote, it would make looking through the showcases seem more worthwhile. I don't think that any one person here is a good overall Showcase mod, because no-one is a jack of all trades. (Or at least not enough of one to cover all areas.)

[Gesshoku]

I think a showcase mod wouln't be a bad idea. There might not be many "jack of trades" But somebody to monitor the forum, then as showcase's appear the forum mod could direct the info to somebody that is more appropriate for the post, if necassary, then it could be decided from there if the showcase "postee" should be promoted or not.

[PoHa!]

I actually think that if the moderators were given the power to promote, it would make looking through the showcases seem more worthwhile. I don't think that any one person here is a good overall Showcase mod, because no-one is a jack of all trades. (Or at least not enough of one to cover all areas.)

My power to promote does not make me want to look through showcase any more than anyone else. My past experience as Showcase moderator might, but the power over promotion is kinda... meh...

Of course, I might also feel slightly more obligated to look through showcase, because other than Admins, I'm the only one who can promote right now. So if EVERYONE could promote, it could theoretically create the mentality of "meh, someone else will take care of it" whereas having a showcase moderator means that that someone else is YOU. Err... something.

And they don't need to be a jack of all trades. Interiors are by far and large the most showcased thing. When music, meshes, literature, or something of that sort would come up, I would try to give feedback, but I also tended to PM moderators of that respected area, and ask what they thought (often getting their say so before promoting, especially for music or lit). Thus the showcaser always received feedback, even if it was my uneducated in the area "oh, that's nice" stuff. It made them at least feel like they weren't posting to a dead forum.

These are the types of things that a showcase moderator is needed for, IMO.

[Sload]

I read every new showcase thread that doesn't specify that it isn't quests. I get all excited every time it is quests for Oblivion.

[Nanu]

We all have lives. At least, most of us do. So keep in mind of my keeping that fact in mind when you read this.

What we're doing now isn't working. I've seen some weird happenings in the Showcase of late, and I'm not happy with it.

You see, we need a Showcase Mod. BAD. The system now would and can work, but only if the Mods do what they're supposed to: look at and review the submissions in their respective fields. I don't see that happening.

I understand that Mods have enough to do already, that's why we need a Moderator that does only the job of maintaining and promoting people in the Showcase.

So, one of three things is going to happen:

1. We get a Showcase Moderator.

2. Moderators do their job in the Showcase.

3. People keep getting little to no attention.

Nothing personal, and I'm not attacking anyone; however, something has to be done.

[horodnicdragos]

I was thinking at the system we're already using for claims. There should be three diferrent categories:

-Inactive
-Pending
-Complete

Threads from the inactive category are showcases where nothing happened for some time so all of them gather here.

Threads from Pending are the active ones.

And finally the threads from the Complete section are those mmember's who got promted.

The Showcase reviewer will take care of all of these.

That would be the best solution for me. Just an idea though. You know most of the time people look at the top ten posts only.

Also have to keep in mind that this will reuqire some planning and of course quite a lot of work to get it functioning.

I for example look in all the new threads from the showcase forum but it happens not to know how to help that guy or gal. Unless it's related to modeling or texture I have nothing else to say except a non constructive sentence.

I think making Parted User the person in charge of TR Modder usergroup and giving the core the password is a good idea.

I've seen that on many forums but most of the time usres were giving the password to other people and this way there was a pure chaos.

And as far as I know there is an option in the administration panel (or maybe it's a mod I'm not sure) that will automatically match the title (TR Modder text) when a user is in a group. This way members won't have to wait for the title name which is the most fun of promption.

What do you think? :\

[Sload]

I am of the opinion that showcases should never be removed (unless they were locked because of yada yada), simply because the user could come back. As such, inactive seems like a bad idea to me.

Having a simple subforum for promoted people's showcases would be interesting. I don't think it's necessary, though, and we have quite a few forums as it is.

As to the Parted User thing, we would only give it to leet-kore members, so there would be no more chaos than there is now.

[horodnicdragos]

I am of the opinion that showcases should never be removed (unless they were locked because of yada yada), simply because the user could come back. As such, inactive seems like a bad idea to me.

I didn't say anything about locking. The inactive threads are just moved there and when the users return they can always be moved back to pending section.

Having a simple subforum for promoted people's showcases would be interesting. I don't think it's necessary, though, and we have quite a few forums as it is.

Then how about using tags? Example:
[Inactive]showcase_name
[Pending]showcase_name
[Aproved]showcase_name

I don't know how to do this though because it's the members who create the threads with whatever names they want so most probally the moderators have to rename them but it's again a chaotic idea.

Maybe I'll come with some more ideas later.

[El Scumbago]

Horodnic's idea has some potential. What if a moderator edits the title of old showcases? For example, we have "The_Black_Horse_Courier's Silver Showcase" (I said "for example", didn't I?). He's inactive, so a moderator goes and adds this in the beginning of the thread's title. So whoever visits the forum will see the status of older threads, while the new ones will have their titles intact.

[horodnicdragos]

Actually you gave me quite a good idea. The pending threads should have no tags. Only the inactive and aproved ones should.
Example:
"The_Black_Horse_Courier's Silver Showcase" - pending
"[Inactive]The_Black_Horse_Courier's Silver Showcase" - Inactive
"[Promoted]The_Black_Horse_Courier's Silver Showcase" - Uhm...aproved.

I think it's the same but I don't get it from your sentence.

[El Scumbago]

That's exactly what I meant. I think it's the best system for categorizing all those showcases. At least for the time being.

[Sload]

What is the benifit of marking inactive showcases? We know they're inactive, it doesn't tell us anything.

However, I can see the benifit of tagging showcases by members-wanting-to-be-promoted and members-promoted. We could restrict showcase posts to one of three tags: Attention (for the announcements at the top, moderator+admin only), Showcase (for showcases to-be-promoted, modders can't use it), Promoted (for modder+ showcase, modders and up only). Only problem is someone has to by-hand edit the showcase post to say Promoted, but I think we have cool enough moderators to remember to do that.

This way, you can sort by tag and get all of the regular Showcase posts, without the Promoted posts in the way, and vice-versa. Much easier.

[horodnicdragos]

What is the benifit of marking inactive showcases? We know they're inactive, it doesn't tell us anything.

To know where modders reviewers and moderators should check. Inactive showcases can be bumped up by other people but if the author have not replied that results inactivity. And this results lower priority by putting the inactive tag. Those with Pending tag get the highest priority from all members so that it will be reviewed at time and maybe later on get promoted. And finally the Promoted tab will give the lowest priority since there's no need of reviewing because the member got already promoted and will only get renamed to Pending or Inactive in case of, what do you think, yes inactivity. So let's get back to the topic. People will only look at those threads from the top of the first page. So, I think it's all clear. It's just an idea though. But it requires few work and it works very well itself.

[Nanu]

However, I can see the benifit of tagging showcases by members-wanting-to-be-promoted and members-promoted. We could restrict showcase posts to one of three tags: Attention (for the announcements at the top, moderator+admin only), Showcase (for showcases to-be-promoted, modders can't use it), Promoted (for modder+ showcase, modders and up only). Only problem is someone has to by-hand edit the showcase post to say Promoted, but I think we have cool enough moderators to remember to do that.

This way, you can sort by tag and get all of the regular Showcase posts, without the Promoted posts in the way, and vice-versa. Much easier.

Yes, I said something like that to the Core a while back, but it got ignored. I agree, though.

However, we're still left with the problem I mentioned earlier:

understand that Mods have enough to do already, that's why we need a Moderator that does only the job of maintaining and promoting people in the Showcase.

So, one of three things is going to happen:

1. We get a Showcase Moderator.

2. Moderators do their job in the Showcase.

3. People keep getting little to no attention.

What are we doing?

[horodnicdragos]

We just let the core chose someone who can take care of the showcases. I still say text tags would be the best. No tag for showcases which are waiting and two tags for complete and inactive.

Another problem would be the fact that people will only look at top 10 posts or at the first page of the showcase forum only. There should be a way to sort them by categories. That's why I thought at sub-forums the first time.

[Sload]

You can sort posts (in a forum, not in the top 10) by tags. That's the whole point of them.

I don't think a strong case has been made for an inactive tag. If someone bumps it, it takes a whole 5 seconds to realize that every post but the last is 6 months old. However, it requires time for someone to manually go around and click inactive on inactive showcase, for the gain of.. knowing that they're inactive if a dumbass bumps them for no reason. Which has happened like twice with like what, a hundred showcases inactive? Simply not worth it.

Nanu, number 2.

[horodnicdragos]

It sounds the same as it is now for me. And inactive tags will show up only if the author will, not respond. No matter other people will it's the while of time since that person last posted. Why don't we make a poll where people can chose which idea is better. I think all of them are good.

[Sload]

You're suggesting Amrod write a program that finds out first who's showcase the showcase is, and then how long it's been since they've posted in it? That's got to be very complicated, and he has a long (and growing) list of things that are more important. I just don't think it's worth the effort.

[Gez]

Making a difference between promoted and not-promoted is a nice idea. Especially if the promoted are in a subforum or have their own tag (preferably with a low alphabetic priority, so that they come out on the bottom when sorting by tabs, or something), so that our hypothetical Showcase Jesus (who has to sort wheat from chaff, perform the miracle of the multiplication of promotion, and sometimes even resurrect the dead TR modders that decide they want back in) will have an easy way to get that visual clutter out of the thread list.

But I don't see the point of differentiating between "inactive" and "pending". Inactive threads are old threads.

[Sload]

Forum tags don't get enough love, no one even knows how to sort by them!

You go to the top of a forum, click Filter posts, then click the tag you want to see. Done right, it can be like having multiple mini-forums in one.

[horodnicdragos]

You're suggesting Amrod write a program that finds out first who's showcase the showcase is, and then how long it's been since they've posted in it?

No.

But I don't see the point of differentiating between "inactive" and "pending". Inactive threads are old threads.

Then why do we need a "promoted" tag either?

I give up.

[Sload]

No, this is fun. We're discussing a legitimate idea and the pros, cons, and necessities of it.

No.

How else do you propose to find out how long it's been since the showcaser's posted?

Then why do we need a "promoted" tag either?

Because some people still use their showcases after their promoted. If I had time to do all the mod things for not-TR I want to do, I would have a showcase.

(Those are making a theatre somewhere and rewritting the mainquest. Not actually a lot, hmm..)