Materials and Items

[El Scumbago]

I'm starting this thread because of Ghogiel's thread, in which the matter of materials became apparent. So, skipping the intros, here is a brief list of materials and items they're associated to. Check through the list and then say your opinions about new types of materials, where can they be used, and how are they justified by lore.

Oblivion Materials
------------------
Mithril - Armor


Morrowind Materials
-------------------
Resin - Weapons & Armor
Bone - Weapons & Armor


Materials Common In Both
------------------------
Leather - Clothes & Armor
Fur - Clothes & Armor
Iron - Weapons & Armor
Steel - Weapons & Armor
Silver - Weapons & Clutter
Ebony - Weapons & Armor
Glass - Weapons, Armor & Clutter
Daedric - Weapons & Armor
Clay - Clutter
Stone - Clutter
Wood - Clutter


This Is The New Shit
----------------------------
1) Porcelain - Armor (possibly clutter as well)
Concept1: Lutemothian Armor
2)Ceramics - Armor (and certainly clutter)

Alloys and unique stuff (like the ones used by Elven armor ar obviously not to get in the list).

Now, some have suggested ceramics as armor material. All I can say is what I've already said, this material is essentially clay. Except if you can find a workaround.

Now, there are certain materials like Bone and Leather that can make for many different items, depending on the type of animal they're taken rom, but it wouldn't be too wise to over-use them. We can certainly have some glass clutter like in Morrowind, since glass itself is something very common, if we exclude the volcaninc glass that's used for the armor. Daedric, which is empowered Ebony, can obviously have no other use, except perhaps for a new design of armor/weapon. While Leather and Bone can be sufficient for qute a few stuff, we should think of something else as well.

Note that coming up with a new material every time you wanna make an item is not necessary, we can avoid this by naming the item after the people/area/faction that use it. But since the matter was brought up, here we go.

[Sload]

It should also be noted that bonemold, which is not real bone, is unique to Morrowind, and thus can not or should not be used by any other provinces.

Coming up with new materials is better because its Hammerfell and it should have some of its own ways of making things. These don't necessarily have to make sense in that whole science shit that people do.

[Haplo]

Well there was one helmet... Like... a troll helmet or something, that was bone. But yes, bonemold is isn't bone, 'tis resin n' shiz. Like chitin. Only better.

[Nomadic1]

There is Orichalc. We know the Redguards have gone to Yokuda to bring back Orichalc stuff if the Vivec and Cyrus story is anything to go by.

[Eraser]

Mithril's good for weapons and essentially anything that can be made of metal. In OB mithril isn't quite as good as it used to be, in daggerfall it was just under adamantium in quality, which we're also forgetting

Morrowind material items, we could have, obviously traded, but they should be very rare, and more expensive considering where they came from.

[Gnomey]

In Morrowind there was silver armour, though it doesn't seem so common, but as the duke's guards used silver you might want to put it in none the less.

And I still don't see how you can say that ceramic armour makes no sense with things like resin, glass (volcanic or not) and crushed insect shell being used as armour.

[Eraser]

Ceramics are brittle and shatter easily. As an arrow, wouldn't be a bad idea, the fragmenting making it deadlier, but for armor, it'd be a one hit deal.

[Gnomey]

Well, my point is that there are other materials used in ES armour etc. that would technically by a hazard to the wearer, so why bother if someone comes up with another such armour? Tamriel and our world can have variations on materials and their strength, you know.

I'll stop going on about it now.

[Eraser]

How would any of the TES armors be hazardous? Glass is volcanic crystal, not real glass like windows and in MW at least(OB's glass armor is all green) the true armored parts were some other metal or stone, with glass more like a decoration with tthe purpose of deflecting blows.

Bugshell and resin, ever tried to squash a roach that just refused to die? chitin, bonemold, dreugh and indoril armor, the bugshell/resin base is pretty tough, more like a crab or lobster shell but multilayered.

[Haplo]

I don't know about you but when I can kill people with 1 hit and I toss a warhammer with all my strength at some glass, I expect it to shatter. If you're wearing glass armor and it shatters (which, well, duh. It should, since it's glass), then you've got glass in your eye. And that's hazardous.

[Sload]

Science: SNORE

Porcelain armor is magick porcelain that isn't really porcelain but magick non-shattery porcelain clay. Magick magick magick!

Thematics is what actually matters. Not science.

[Eyeball88]

Science: SNORE

Porcelain armor is magick porcelain that isn't really porcelain but magick non-shattery porcelain clay. Magick magick magick!

Thematics is what actually matters. Not science.

Sload is right. It is a good idea to look at things through a scientific angle when there's obviously a very gaping logical hole, or something that will stick out glaringly when someone looks into it. But the porcelain armor thing doesn't have to be one of these.

It can be an armor unique to Hammerfell, as glass is unique to Vvardenfell (the mining of the glass, anyway.) A secret of ancient Yokudan culture, they have found a mixture of various materials that they mix into the clay to give it a much hardier shell.

[Lutemoth]

To help the ceramic material, it's based on a plate metal, which helps cushion its rigidity (although the metal cannot be seen), and has gone through a material/tempering process in which it is only useful to them (much like bonemold and glass is moreso useful to the dunmer).

Ceramic armour is one of those things I have to stand by, as it's one of those oddities people appreciate when traveling. If they were curious, they could ask how it's made (I doubt any claysmith would give them a detailed answer of it, however)

[Eraser]

as long as its made well I guess, but what would it look like?

[Sload]

Fine China.

And this:
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7627/ceramickv1.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/4820/serpentine6jy.jpg

[CleverClothe]

What if the clay wasn't fired to be completely hard? And what if it was reinforced with a steel mesh. Perhaps there is a special ingredient (or mixture) that binds the clay together better.

[Lutemoth]

Materials that go into the process are perhaps more important than the tempering of the porcelain. Ceramic and china are key words, as they may have the texture and appearance of a beautifully painted masterwork, but have little in common with conventional redwares/china/ceramics/easily breakable clays.

[Rockwell]

My personal opinion is that Hammerfell should have a unique material associated with them, but that it shouldn't be clay. I know that this is a fantasy game, but there have to be some kind of limits. I mean, why couldn't I just make a paper towl armor? It's imbued with mystical magical powers that deflect even the strongest of blows. Obviously, that's a little far fetched. I think the clay idea is a little far fetched as well.

As for glass for armor, I always thought of it as some kind of exotic material that was seperate from common glass that's normaly used for stuff like cups, windows, etc. And the chitin/bonemold armor, I think it makes complete sense seeings as how morrowind is home to some strangely exotic and very large insect life, which the dunmer are able to utilize for their armor.

Is adamantium exclusive to any province? If not, maybe that could be a Hammerfell specialty. It wouldn't be exclusive to Hammerfell, but there could be a Yokuda variety known for it's strength and or resistance to wear and tear.

[Sload]

My personal opinion is that Hammerfell should have a unique material associated with them, but that it shouldn't be clay. I know that this is a fantasy game, but there have to be some kind of limits. I mean, why couldn't I just make a paper towl armor? It's imbued with mystical magical powers that deflect even the strongest of blows. Obviously, that's a little far fetched. I think the clay idea is a little far fetched as well.

As for glass for armor, I always thought of it as some kind of exotic material that was seperate from common glass that's normaly used for stuff like cups, windows, etc. And the chitin/bonemold armor, I think it makes complete sense seeings as how morrowind is home to some strangely exotic and very large insect life, which the dunmer are able to utilize for their armor.

My personal opinion is that Morrowind should have unique materials associated with them, but that it shouldn't be glass. I know that this is a fantasy game, but there have to be some kind of limit. I mean, why couldn't I just make a paper towl armor? It's imbued with mystical magical powers that deflect even the strongest of blows. Obviously, that's a little far fetched. I think the glass idea is a little far fetched as well.

As for porcelain for armor, I always thought of it as some kind of exotic materious that was seperated from common clay that's normally used for stuff like cups, bowls, etc. And it also makes complete sense seeing as how Hammerfell is home to an enormous desert, which the ragu are able to utilize for their armor.

Is adamantium exclusive to any province? If not, maybe that could be a Hammerfell specialty. It wouldn't be exclusive to Hammerfell, but there could be a Yokuda variety known for it's strength and or resistance to wear and tear.

Adamantium is not ragu stylistically. It can't be ragu stylistically. It's a very Tamrio-Nedic material.

But this discussion can't be finished without mentioning how the Altmer's three main materials are crystal, bug wings, and sunlight.

Made of crystal and solidified sunlight, with wings though they do not fly, and prows that elongate into swirling Sun-Birds, and gem-encrusted mini-trebuchets fit for sailing which fire pure aetheric fire, and banners, banners, banners, listing their ancestors all the way back to the Dawn.

This is Old Mary at Water.

[Rockwell]

I can understand your point Sload, and how you can use my argument as a case against glass as well. But to be purely honest, clay just sounds wierd to me to be used as an armor, and doesn't seem like a great idea to me. But, if the majority wants clay, I'll go along with it. Is there some other material we can think up? And does there have to be a new exclusive material anyways?

[El Scumbago]

I can go with orihalc, it's a concept far better than porcelain and refined rock, although too similar to iron and copper.

[Sload]

Orichalc is not only rare, it is unheard of. There just might be three weapons made of it in our entire mod. Besides, its a translucent metal, doesn't that break all your fancy science rules?

And does there have to be a new exclusive material anyways?

No. There needs to be new armor. This just happens to be a really good armor idea.

Two general points for you guys:

First, Lutemoth-ae-Raga. He has their brand of alien in his blood.

Second, Tamriel != Earth. Tamriel is alien and wierd. Sunlight is a perfectly acceptable material here. Get our of your boring square worlds. Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

FAKE IT TIL YOU MAKE IT

[El Scumbago]

Let's talk science, at last. Orihalc is metal tougher and shiner than copper but less than iron. It was forged about 5.000 years ago for the first time and got abandoned as soon as tougher alloys and metals were discovered. We can make a different kind of orihalc for HF, since its rust-like color matches the overall scenery. All we will change is the durability and flexibility of the material.

[Rockwell]

There has to be limits! If not, then I want my paper towel armor idea thrown into the mod. With a cardboard tube as a sword. And a cereal box as a helmet . . . and I can shoot lasers out of my eyes . . .

[Sload]

Yoku orichalc is about as related to orichalc from Earth as Lorkhan's ebony blood is related to the ebony tree.

And yes, Rockwell, there are limits. The thing all of you don't understand is that they're aesthetic, not scientific. Sunlight armor! SUNLIGHT!

[Gnomey]

Guess I'm butting in again. If people really think that porcelain doesn't make much sense or doesn't sound good, what if it has a protective layer of resin? (Resin still doesn't seem to make much more sense than porcelain, but it's at least a good laminate as far as I've heard). That way the porcelain would be protected from damage and the armour would "make sense".

[Haplo]

Sunlight armor?

[Lutemoth]

There has to be limits! If not, then I want my paper towel armor idea thrown into the mod. With a cardboard tube as a sword. And a cereal box as a helmet . . . and I can shoot lasers out of my eyes . . .

And I can wear my molded bone armour, and glass boots! Those won't shatter, right?

I simply don't understand the logic here. If anything, glass forged armour and caste grown bonemold are weirder than clays made to form a sturdy and protective shielding! If the star-broken east can use tears of the red mountain, is it not likely the warrior west picked up the very soil in their hands and, with the knowledge of their fathers, used the land to repel the infidels forthwith? It speaks the Raga hardship, and their way of life!

[Sload]

Sunlight armor?

Not explicit, but I think a sunlight ship is a even more bizarre.

And a little birdy told me that its porcelain made of Morwha's milk.

Emekh-i says that if he writes more about the Yoku, they'll wear porcelain armor. I think I win now, no?

[Adanorcil]

I see a lot of criticism against porcelain here. Yes, ceramics are brittle. Yes, ceramic objects break easily. If you make tea cups of it, they do. What is a tea cup? It has to be light (hence, thin), smooth and somewhat eye-pleasing too. Following that description, you're left with a thin, low density material, with many weak spots where the decoration and handle are connected. Yes. You don't go making armor out of that.

However, people also make fake teeth out of the same material. A lot depends on the production process. By changing the material mix and by applying processes, you can make it a lot harder. Now throw some two-thousand year old Yoku mumbo-jumbo in it. Also, porcelain would be quite insulative, which is not bad in a hot climate.

Now I imagine some of you are thinking about full one-piece ceramic armors. That would seem unlikely indeed, unless we make up a reason why it is so hard. (Which is not very hard.) It could just as well be used as scales placed on top of a cloth or leather base. Small and relatively thick pieces of glaced ceramic would be provide ample protection against arrows and even deflect blows, and would work fine as an alternative for very expensive and hard-to-make steel. Also, it could also serve a decorative purpose, being painted with designs or symbols.

All in all, I see no reason why not to use this, in my opinion, awesome idea.


And just to give you all some more inspiration, here's a little something from our favorite God of Show Me Some Gold, who says hi, too:

"Porcelain armor has exactly the exoticness that seems appropriate to the stone-worshipping people of the Hammerfell. Like glass armor, its name confounds expectations, which inherently pushes it into the fantastic (and look how glass armor is accepted nowadays). *Of course* raga porcelain is enchanted and blessed by the Gods through the hands of its craftsman, and thus a viable (and beneficial because of its lightness) form of protection. "And they mixed its powder with the milk of Morwha, the mother of all sands, and it stood firm, and sounded of small music as its porcelain scales shook with the wearer, and so did they sing along their ranks as they did in Old Yokuda among the saints." I would see these same scales painted each by hand as if in a mosaic, with ocean patterns that moved like the waves of the Eltheric, confusing the enemies of the sons and daughters of the orichalc isles. Warrior wave, indeed."

Simply put, he likes the idea.

[Eraser]

jeez, solidified sunlight? from MK none the less, I'll not complain about materials unless its paper towel armor or something just plain stupid.

There needs to be some sort of psuedo science to things, not real science, but some way that things make sense in the context of the world.

well then again, bethesda seems to do whatever the hell they want with shivering isles with the excuse of sheogorath.

So now how will we be any different from ST?(aside from not redoing morrowind )

Who's Emehk-i?

[Rockwell]

OK, here goes my opinion again. I'm not an Elder Scrolls scholar or anything, so correct me if I'm wrong in some sense. But like I stated before, it's my belief that the glass that is used in armor and weapons in Morrowind is substantially different than the glass that is used for cups, windows, etc. Or in otherwords, it's a completely different material. It seems to me that all glass used in armor and weaponry is green, and that that color is a specific characteristic of that substance, thus distinguishing itself from common glass. On the other hand, the typical, or common glass is used for applications not requiring great durability, such as the aformentioned cups, windows, whatever. I believe that it's only an unfortunate case that both substances, being radically different and having very different applications, share the same name.

Also, though hardly an authoritative source of information regarding the Elder Scrolls, Wikipedia has a list of fictional materials used in novels/tv series and movies/videogames. Glass is found in that list. Therefore, it can be deducted that glass is a fictional material that has qualities different from common glass. The list can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_chemical_substances%2C_A-M

I hope that explains it. So, for the clay/ceramic armor, it could be that it has the same misfortune of sharing the same name of a lesser material. Or, if it literally is the same substance, then crap, I certaintly wouldn't want to have that as my armor.

But besides all of that, if it comes to a consensus and everyone wants clay armor, I'll back it 100%, and I'll just assume that it's a super strong clay.[/i]

[CleverClothe]

Yup, this definitely isn't the best of the best. But it can be made effective and benificial enough.

The armor wouldn't heat up in the desert, but would provide more protection than cloth or leather. Consider how fighting tactics and battlefield conditions affect armor use.

[Sload]

Who's Emehk-i?

Emekh-i is the God of Show Some Gold. Also known as Emkay to those who don't speek yoku good.

I think Roswell finally got it.

[Eraser]

Clay does associate it with breakable stuff. Porcelain or ceramic would be better naming, they do have ceramic guns, which damn well better not be fragile if you're using one

[Rockwell]

So, are you saying that the clay/ceramic to be used in-game is a fictional clay that is stronger than typical clay, being a completely different material? Then I say 'good to go'.

Actually, if it is different, why not call it something else so that there isn't any confusion!?!??! ! ! ? ? . . !

There is a combination of metal and clay called cermet. I'd imagine it being good for armor maybe but not weapons . . I'm not sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet

Was Roswell refering to me? =)

[Sload]

Because Porcelain Armor is cooler.

Yes, sorry. I blame aliens.

[Rockwell]

Sorry for being all controversial and stuff, but procelain sounds like something I'd learn in home economics or some arts and crafts class or something.

[Eraser]

Who's Emehk-i?

Emekh-i is the God of Show Some Gold. Also known as Emkay to those who don't speek yoku good.

I don't speak yoku at all. Please explain.

[Sload]

Try saying Emkay outloud a few times.