Necrom - Models and Textures for OoT

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:41 pm

I have, within my clawed grasp, the meshes and textures for Necrom. The problem is, Necrom is a minefield of ! boxes, so I am not entirely sure which meshes are actually used. If anyone who knows for sure could give me a list, I would be extremely grateful.

I will be redoing the textures and hopefully fixing the meshes themselves (vertex painting, looking for gaps, and possibly redoing the uv maps, depending). Also, if anyone has any ideas or thoughts, feel free to share

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:21 pm

I have them as well. A while back I thought I would go ahead and start fixing them. After I loaded them all up and gave them a close inspection, I realised that almost all of them might as well be redone from scratch. Either because the errors are mind numbingly frustrating or the model just looks like ass. I'm not trying to discourage you.. I really appreciate you taking the time to work on this. I just think there should be an open discussion about what exactly needs to be done with these meshes.

If you need any post-UV texture help just ask.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:43 pm

IMO Necrom needs to be expanded anyway.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:25 am

Redone. Because half of interiors are also missing the meshes.

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:53 am

Interiors too? Woes. I was just given ext meshes, only one int in the pile I have.

I don't think I can do new meshes. I could probably fudge together some ext meshes, but the only architectural modeling experience I have is from 3dsmax3.11 over five years ago: some Greek styled things and a suspension bridge for a class project. I don't think I really have the knowledge toolset for making new meshes from scratch, I can only do texturing and fixing old meshes

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:39 am

For the Necrom ints, I'm of the opinion we should just retexture the existing velothi pieces.

For the exterior, there's normally all the pieces that exist in the bsa. You can use ghostwheel's "[url=http://www34.brinkster.com/ghostwheel/]bsapack[/url]" utility to extract TR_Data.bsa.

Copy TR_Data.bsa in a temporary directory, along with bsapack.exe. Then, in that directory, run the following command:

Code: Select all

bsapack unpack TR_Data.bsa

After a little while, everything will get unpacked, and you'll be able to move it in Morrowind\Data Files.

The problems I've found with the Necrom meshes are mostly that they're sometimes too small (notably the towers, which have a part where we're supposed to walk -- you can't, even when they're not half-sized, I ran some tests) and especially that they have visible seams.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:44 am

The quick way to make an interior model is to take the exterior and invert it inside-out. Most modelling programs have an invert function.

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:11 am

Gez wrote:For the Necrom ints, I'm of the opinion we should just retexture the existing velothi pieces.

For the exterior, there's normally all the pieces that exist in the bsa. You can use ghostwheel's "[url=http://www34.brinkster.com/ghostwheel/]bsapack[/url]" utility to extract TR_Data.bsa.

Copy TR_Data.bsa in a temporary directory, along with bsapack.exe. Then, in that directory, run the following command:
Code: Select all
bsapack unpack TR_Data.bsa
After a little while, everything will get unpacked, and you'll be able to move it in Morrowind\Data Files.

The problems I've found with the Necrom meshes are mostly that they're sometimes too small (notably the towers, which have a part where we're supposed to walk -- you can't, even when they're not half-sized, I ran some tests) and especially that they have visible seams.

I guess I'll just have to unpack it. I was hoping I wouldn't need to (since it'll take up some space) but I suppose it's a small sacrifice to make.

It was mentioned to me that the meshes need vertex colours applied and this would support that. If they're not listed as "solid" with vertex colours, you can't walk on them. Do you just fall through? Visible seams as in gaps in the mesh, or botched uv mapping? Both of those are easily fixable.

EDIT: I take that back. I didn't realize the gravity of how much the meshes suck when you load them in a 3D program.

*shiver*

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:23 am

Morden wrote:I have them as well. A while back I thought I would go ahead and start fixing them. After I loaded them all up and gave them a close inspection, I realised that almost all of them might as well be redone from scratch. Either because the errors are mind numbingly frustrating or the model just looks like ass. I'm not trying to discourage you.. I really appreciate you taking the time to work on this. I just think there should be an open discussion about what exactly needs to be done with these meshes.

If you need any post-UV texture help just ask.

Gah.. I just looked at the tower mesh Gez was talkng about and see just exactly what you mean. The mesh is pretty, but technically, it's a flipping nightmare.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:37 pm

Are the Necrom models/textures not in OoT?

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:17 pm

They were removed long ago, since they weren't anywhere close to Beth's standards. Or so I hear, in my limited experience I liked what I saw in the screenshots (minus the Pyramid).

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:20 pm

If it is true than the reason of their removal is beyond my comprehension. Why remove them just to break the whole city and populate it with error markers ? Why not to leave it as it is and wait for the new meshes which, quite frankly, may never appear ?

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:28 pm

El Scumbago wrote:They were removed long ago, since they weren't anywhere close to Beth's standards. Or so I hear, in my limited experience I liked what I saw in the screenshots (minus the Pyramid).

I can get screenshots later of what the current meshes look like, but the tower mesh alone is a minefield of gaps and things than really need aligned properly (it has many circles in its center while looking down, these should all be aligned, but none of their centers line up, even within the same object, it appears!). I'm betting some merging of objects might also be in order. There's some nasty clipping on the top part of the tower, where two objects come together and have a jagged seam between them.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:12 am

From what Kikai writes, it sounds like making them from scratch while having the original as a guideline is the best way to go. Kikai, do you think you can manage the job?

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:32 am

Screenshot gallery of a few fixed meshes.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/haplo12345/Necrom/

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:32 pm

Haplo wrote:Screenshot gallery of a few fixed meshes.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/haplo12345/Necrom/

Ach! Zip those up and send them to me! Also, who is doing them? I was poking at the tower mesh, but I haven't made anything in game yet. If someone else is doing them, I don't want to muck with the meshes and end up reinvinting the wheel if there's someonew else working on it.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:16 am

How's this going, Kikai?
If some of the original meshes are crap, you could just scrap 'em. We can probably get by without a few of Veet's meshes, as long as we have those twoers and walls, etc.

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:52 pm

You guys want some seamless versions of the walls and towers? I happen to have some. They aren't fixed models they are completely diferent, well the same basic shape just redone as new models.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:03 am

If you could post the file that would be excellent.

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:52 am

Whats the file folder standard right now? Where should I pack the textures and meshes to avoid retargeting headaches later?

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:33 am

Call me crazy, but I think we should just replace Necrom meshes with standard Velothi, and make a few custom meshes for other stuff with beth textures. It just doesn't look too right.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:06 am

lets see, Veet is offering us awesome replacement necrom meshes, and you say we should just use velothi, even though you haven't seen his new ones (although admittedly they sound as though they will be similar)

YOU'RE CRAZY!

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:21 am

Well I wouldn't necisarily say awesome but better.

Ok there are 4 pieces in this file; the tower, wall, pylon, and gate. The gate is the only significantly diferent object (see the screenshot) I never liked the old gate anyway. The tower and pylon have somewhat longer bases than the originals so they can be placed on uneven terain more easily, perhaps the wall piece needs this too? All the pieces are more or less the same size as the originals but not exactly, replacing will be needed rather than just pluging them into the old spots.

Let me know what you guys think. It's been a while since I've done anything for TR but I think these models are a big improvement over my old stuff.

Now if my oppinion on Necrom still matters I think that Swiftoak is only half crazy. The velothi stuff should be used because I don't think I'll have the time to redo the houses but they should be retextured to a lighter color. I think there are some pieces already floating around somewhere that are like this.

Personaly I think the whole city should be masively redone since a lot of what is there was done a long time ago when everyone (especialy myself) was trying to figure things out, so its not the best work. I have a few ideas if anyone wants to hear them.

edit

forgot to post the screenshot

/edit

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:49 am

Based solely on the screenshot: *drools*

I have always been a fan of the necrom architecture, glad to see that they are being fixed.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:11 am

Even if only the seams were fixed I would still be very greatful because it gives us a set to work with. Thanks for uploading Veet. I'll check them out when I get home from work tonight.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:04 pm

Awesome! Have you other rebuilt models?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:54 pm

VEET!

dang man, havent seen you.... well, since you left

thanks much for the models, they look fabulous

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:35 am

Awesome! Have you other rebuilt models?

Not rebuilt but I did manage to come up with this today (see attatched screenshot). Still needs a little texture fixing but the gist is there.

VEET!

dang man, havent seen you.... well, since you left

It has been a while. About a year and a half. A lot has happened in that time but I find myself with a little time lately and an inkling to use it, so I ended up here.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:04 am

You're always welcome, Veet. Awesome interior tileset piece too. Looks real nice to me

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:12 am

I wanna mod on it! :O

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:10 am

Here we go. Everything you need for basic interiors. No double height pieces or anything like that....yet.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:16 am

Nice. Can't wait to check them out after work. You may have just saved Map 3.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:16 pm

Map 2. Necrom is on map2 !

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:54 pm

glad to see you back, even for a while

the int peice looks realy nice too. necrom will realy stand out from the other cities, wich is good

[edit]
took a look at the int pieces, again very nice. the walls and floors have a lot of extra polygons though.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:20 pm

maybe Morden meant that Map 3 was indirectly saved... you know, um, because without these models map2 will be so hard we'll never get to 3... Yeah, that's it.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:23 pm

or that the entire project is Dependant on the necrom lighthouse. =P [/spam]

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:25 am

Thrignar Fraxix wrote:or that the entire project is Dependant on the Necrom lighthouse. =P [/spam]

*idea*

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:13 am

Arg, optimising is a pain. I think I can shave off about a third of the polys but its going to take some work, unless someone knows a trick. I'll work a bit on that tonight.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:36 pm

well, most of the polies are in flat areas of the wall/floor. in maya, i simply select edges and later vertexes and deleat all the surplus squares. then i just riangulate it again.

if you dont have time i could do it on monday.

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:21 pm

Try these models. I ran into an alignment issue and had to redo the floors and ceilings. I used the oportunity to get part of the indentations to. The polygons are nearly half of what they were but still a little steep. On the bright side I also did a version without the indentations that is one tenth the poly count of the original. Its not nearly as prety but more manageable. Perhaps we could use these for filler and the others for highlight. (the plain version is included in the attatchment)

If these get the aproval I can crank out the whole set, including double height pieces.

[edit]
forgot to add the attachment.
[/edit]