Middle Class Base 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06 [Working]

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:43 pm

Morden i will do the normal maps.... i have no idea how to do specular would you mind if i send it over to you?

On another note i redid the columns UV maps to be nicer, and smoothed out all of the "rough" edges!...i am not going to export a whole other batch untill i know what everyone thinks ect.... and i can make some major changes. (exporting all of them took me 2 hours)

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:47 pm

@Morden: When making the Normal Maps, the more detailed I made them (lower 'filter type') they reflected the light even more harshly. It seemed like that the only way to get the textures to look more smooth ingame, was to raise the 'filter type' thus making them look less detailed. If you can find a nice balance between 'scale' and 'filter type' please do. It's something me and Fiar struggled with. Also, I know most of the Normal are inverted at this point (they reflect the light opposite to where they are supposed to... when doing it PS it seemed backwards to me for some reason doing it the correct way).

@N: The grey matches the stone color of GM. I think the buildings should perfectly mesh with the rest of the region.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:23 pm

The reflected light is determined by the specular map. White = brightness and reflection, Black = shadow/darkness.

All of the textures i've checked currently have solid white specular maps. This causes extreme reflection/brightness in the game. That may have been your problem.

Scale determines how rough the object appears.. so the marble would have a scale of 1.. and the stone maybe 3. Typically the scale is kept fairly low.

This is what happened when I gave the window frame texture a new normal map and a new specular map. I made the spec map too bright, and you can see how it reflects much more then the textures around it.

[url=http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=specmaplu7.jpg][img]http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7198/specmaplu7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

This is the MCWall5 texture with a scale of 3, and a new specular map (though its not a very bright one).

[url=http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normalmapwi2.jpg][img]http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/1883/normalmapwi2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:38 pm

Looking 10 times better already.

For 90% of the normal maps, I didn't give it a specular map at all (the alpha map attached to the normal map is what I think we are talking about) because I saved them out as DTX-1 (no alpha)... so maybe that defaults to white?

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:48 pm

I would assume so. Mine are DXT5 with interpolated alpha.. though I read DXT3 works as well.

Oh... and I used "4" as my filter type.

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:29 pm

Loving the buildings. Keep up the great work Fairwater.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:56 pm

Awesome job here - Keep it up!

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:34 pm

The models are fantastic, and the textures are really coming along.
In terms of color, I think it could be muddied up a bit. The blue could be less of a pure blue, and given a more dirty feel to it. The reflections seem bright too, I see areas on the texture that look like they are almost pure white.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:20 am

The reflections seem bright too, I see areas on the texture that look like they are almost pure white.

The textures don't have specular maps/or have a solid white map... and these determine the amount of reflection. They're also getting new normal maps.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:48 am

Ok morden here are the new textures with new uvs.... i removed some of the ones i am not using. The rest are here.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:29 pm

the main issues i noticed while playing was the shinyness. there were also some flashing polygons and wierd coloring (visible on several screens). all in all, it looked modgasmic and smelled of welsh cheese all over. great work mang!

[url=http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9803/mctest02lr7.jpg][img]http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/9803/mctest02lr7.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/300/mctest03qz3.jpg][img]http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/300/mctest03qz3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4060/mctest04gw2.jpg][img]http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4060/mctest04gw2.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5976/mctest05qm3.jpg][img]http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5976/mctest05qm3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5900/mctest06pp9.jpg][img]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5900/mctest06pp9.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7415/mctest10lo7.jpg][img]http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7415/mctest10lo7.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3130/mctest11ze9.jpg][img]http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3130/mctest11ze9.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4079/mctest12yl0.jpg][img]http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4079/mctest12yl0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1029/mctest13cb7.jpg][img]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1029/mctest13cb7.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3346/mctest17gz3.jpg][img]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3346/mctest17gz3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/403/mctest20ew7.jpg][img]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/403/mctest20ew7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:35 pm

I think if we could dirty or grey the gold up a little, it would work wonders. It seems almost like someone took the color gold in MS Paint and sprayed it on. For those movie lighting folks, we need to add in like 2 or 3 stops on that, mang.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:09 pm

I agree with haplo, and would also say that the pillars look a bit incoherent with the rest of the design. Maybe if we paled them out a whole lot, so they were still blue, just more whitish blue than greyish blue. Either that or make them a whole lot darker so they contrast. At the moment, they sort of just look out of place.

Other than that tiny point, this is all looking a whole bunch of superb.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:45 pm

I dont know i dont want to be the one coming down hardest on my own work, but something does seem off.... i mean, i know i still have to fix uv maps on the columns, and smooth everthing out.....but it still looks hmmm amature in comparison to beths stuff.....any ideas?

on second thoughts maybe it looks weird with the back ground?? hmmm ok,

So new gold textures.... i want to see how things look once we get mordens specular maps......and this week i will smooth everything out. But like i said i want to make sure i am near completion before i extract another bunch.

Lady N: Can you let me know where you saw flickering so i can fix it up.... i think i have an idea....on the top arches??

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:29 pm

the tower had quite a lot of different shaded polygons (one is darker then the others, but texture is correct). the inn had a wierd discoloration between polygons on the balcony (seen in the screenshot). ill tell you the rest on wich i saw flickering tomorow.

what i noticed about the textures is that you sometimes cant see where the arch leaves of and wall begins. vertex sharing, or making parts of the model/texture darker in other ways, would probably fix the problem. the flatnes and lack of shadows did stand out.

PS. i think its prety damn near beth's work, and tons above other mods.

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:09 pm

Damn amazing work Fairwater!

The doors dont look as they should though. Cant express what I mean in english as good but I will give it a try.

It looks like the doors is glued on the entrance, the door itself should be inbeaded (spelling?) in the entrance arch just 1 or 2 inches would do it.

Also the 1/3 of a pillar on the close-up of the balcony look like it has a bump-map, and the pillar next to it looks smoth.

That is what I could find on the screens, otherwise freaking great job!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:49 am

but it still looks hmmm amature in comparison to beths stuff.....any ideas?

I think the biggest factor may be that the poly count on your buildings is quite low, which is a really good thing most of the time.

Bethesda had insane poly counts, to the point where it made their game hard to run in some cases.. but it added a lot of character to their models. They decided to model many of the architectural details.. you can find extra beams, ledges, and trim, which other games would include as texture art. They also spent a lot of their poly budget on making sure they left no hard edges in easily visible areas. Take a look at the OB buildings in the CS and put one next to yours to get an idea of how we can building upon the base you've created. Its not something I noticed until yesterday when I got the rihad models into the game. In any case its best that we discover it now and not later. There is always room for improvement

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:05 am

I think Morden's last screen looked a lot nicer than LNs. Are you running yours with the graphics set lower perhaps?

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:19 am

Well if you put my model in the CS next to beth model the weirdest thing happens....you see that somehow my models are of somewhat similar poly count......which is bizzar, but on closer inspection you can see that i budgeted alot more polies for smoother arches and that is what eats up most of my polies. I am going to put them next to beths and see what i can figure out!

Edit : So it basicly comes down to this ....theirs have a whole lot more extrusions, But when we think about our inspiration ect. middle eastern houses are just more blocky in design..... i think this will be compensated for with my overhangs, canvas cover ect, which are all to come in the near future....

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:55 am

That might as well be Hindi to me, but whatever it means it sounds like you know what you're doing, and it sounds like things are going well.

So thumbs up to you and rock on for doing this, mang

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:11 am

Bethesda stuffed up the Oblivion buildings with frames and beams and a whole bunch of pointless things to give them character as Morden said. That's all that "unblockifies" them. Now, is this going to be the final texture? I mean, is it going to be grey with blue flower patterns? Fairwater, in a pic I've sent you (the one I was explaining various things about the base buiding) there is a also a part where I suggest areas to place patterns in. Furthermore, although the colors I used in the concepts weren't meant to be the final ones, I did imagine the buildings to have at least 3 different colors. If you check it, you'll see it adds to diversity but in a consistent way.

P.S. My bad, I should have noticed earlier, but the doors are meant to be inbedded, just like the windows, not stand out of the buildings.

Just a few notes.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:39 pm

i run my game on top graphics scumy (1600x1200, x4 antialiasing, bloom, ultra high). i think the difference is due to location (i have mine placed around where rihad is on the hammerfell hightmap) and in the maps. morden's were made with normal and spec maps that he himself did (iirc) and i used fair's latest set. the location changes weather settings, wich changes how the light refracts of the models as well as the general atmosphere of the screen (they dont look depresive in goldmoor, you were right noir).

if its not that i have no idea.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:13 am

What kind of monster is your comp LadyN?! I wasn't refering to the atmosphere of the scene however, just pointed out some things I've noticed (the doors being the most important). But I do believe that at least one more color would be in order, which is why I asked if these textures will be the final ones. I do like the looks of the material though, very nice work.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:27 pm

Anyways i put these down for the last week as they were making me go insane but i feel like i will pick them up and work on them again.Scummy on the note of the buildings having 3 colors they where suppose to be white gold and blue......but i guess only some of them have gold.....i could maybe try and make the arches alittle more golden....who knows that could look nice. We could also maybe get another new trim and put it around the edge of the arches.....although that might loook alittle repetitive when we have the same trim on every house, on every arch

How does everyone feel about the doors.....now remember the door is just a door frame and a door with a model will go over top of it........do you think that the door should be embedded into the wall?....that would take alot of work if we wanted that.....otherwise what i could do is have the door frame jut out than the door sink back towards the buildings again.

So any more comments any ideas?

Edit: oh yea morden how are those specular maps coming along

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:33 pm

I think a door frame would look really nice, and add some nice detail. Also, if you ares till worried about how they compare to the OB Arch styles, I might have some suggestions if you want to catch me on AIM.

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:35 pm

Fairwater wrote:what i could do is have the door frame jut out than the door sink back towards the buildings again.

That would seem the best option to me

Be careful not to burn yourself out Fairwater. Remember, there are other modellers out there who you can assign things to, don't try to do everything (like that Stirk statue as well as the houses).

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:41 pm

I know orix thanks for the concern......the problem is they seem to all be silent! i have to smoke them out of their holes!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:34 am

White, gold and blue? Hell no, that doesn't seem tolerable for a building. What note was that? Because it certainly wasn't mine. Hey, I'm kinda busy making Elfane's 2D's right now, but I'll sketch what I have in mind about the doors and upload it. Unless you already begun working on them, hang on until tomorrow.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:50 am

Ok well here is a shot with the new door frame in place....it still needs some more uvmaping but you can get the idea!

[url=http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=thenewdoorck4.jpg][img]http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/447/thenewdoorck4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:54 am

[big thumb up]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:52 am

Lookin' good. Since its going to be a spot that the PC always sees (ie: Always entering at the door), you may want to consider using more polys and smoothing out that arch. You can also help the effect by pulling in the two corners where the arch starts.

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:52 am

Much better! Great work Fairwater

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:39 pm

Ok so i have put the new doors into every building...the indented doors only goes in on the bottom, but i made a new door for the top that is if you ask me 100x times nicer than the crap model i had before....i reuved maped the collumns, smoothed out everything, used vertex shading on columns and lower frames......i could do the upper too but when ever i try my 3ds max crashes. So i am just about to export these then i will have to ask a big favor of everyone!...........but i am not going to let you know what that is untill i am done.......oh the suspense!!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:25 pm

Vast improvement, although there were a couple of things more that I wanted to show about the doors (just a couple, really), which I'll upload this weekend with Elfane's set in 2D view. So, pick a modeller, because we've got an LC set here! Gotta upload the interior shots sometime too, sigh...

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:03 am

Scummy you never cease to amaze me, i really want to see those interior sets ....great work....well to make things even more exciting i finished the modular peices today to and here they are!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:45 am

I just had a quick look at them in nifskope. I'm sure we'll be able to make some great stuff with these peices

One suggestion I have might be to add more beveling/rounding to hard edges and corners. Especially on the posts which are a part of the tent mesh. The stair cases may also need it on the steps.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:06 am

Thanks for the review morden...i will patch those up

alrigh here is the second batch of houses.....if we think these are good (never mind textures we can always change that with the click of a button)then i have a huge favor to ask. I need someone to go through each one of these in nifscope and on each of the upperstory onion frames..click "face Normals" this will get rid of any weird shading and hopefully flickering in game. If you are up for it let me know and i will fill you in on how to do it if you dont already know!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:54 pm

Just downloading the rar now. I'm getting quite a few versions collecting in my TR architecture folder. Maybe you can start a file version system for your archives?

Keep the name of your archive consisant, but change the version number:

ie:
GoldmoorMC_v1
GoldmoorMC_v1.2
GoldmoorMC_v2

ect,ect.

So far every release has had a different name, which means going back to check previous versions, or sorting out current files can become problematic.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:14 pm

BUMP.

Come on people. There is a new architecture download. Check it out.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:51 pm

dowloaded, renamed so that i dont have to place them into the game again. will post screens of it tomorow (acompanied by a news post if no major errors ocur)