Virginia Tech shootings

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:07 am

For those who haven't heard yet, there was a shooting at Virginia Tech that killed 33 people today, and wounded dozens.
Majra, A long-standing honorary member who I grew very close to over my time at TR, is a student there - and I have yet to find out how he's doing. I'm praying that fate spared him from this horrible tragedy...

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:15 am

Majra's fine, he's waiting for folks he knows at Virginia Tech to contact him. No worries

(He's an alumni of VT as of '05, btw - He lives in DC atm, IIRC)

NEENJA · Post by **NEENJA** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:34 am

Geez! That's a lot of people. I wonder what happened. Was it a Coumbine kind of thing?

--the NEENJA

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:17 am

Pretty much Neenja.

They should ban all guns in America like they did here...
can't see it happening anytime soon though.

fanfas · Post by **fanfas** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:12 pm

Soon enough someone will blame GTA and other violent games... you wait and see... specially that lawyer Thompson(sp?)...

This is really sad, specially to all the families that lost their sons and daughters in a crazy way like this... after all at a school we are suposed to be safe right... What have someone in their mind that leads him to do something like this... really really sad.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:23 pm

Is anyone else shocked that the shooter isnt white? I dont mean to sound racist- but this kind of thing always seems to be a caucasian thing.

He's got such a non-thretening look- I cant imagine seing him with a gun in his hands killing incent people for no reason.

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:23 pm

You, me, everyone can snap on a certain point. If you cant reach a weapon you cant do any harm to other people. Thats why i wonder why they still dont want to restrict weapon use in the USA. Even if you save one life with it, it will be worth it.

groza528 · Post by **groza528** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:36 pm

I don't want to turn this into a debate, but in response to Orix and theviking...
Criminals typically don't acquire firearms through legal channels. Restricting guns will be a VERY minor hindrance to outlaws, but a very major hindrance to law-abiding citizens who wish to (and have a right to) defend themselves, their families, and their property.

Now that that's out of the way, thankfully the people I know at VA Tech are safe but one of them lost a friend

My heart and prayers go out to those who have lost loved ones.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:58 pm

This person acquired his gun through legal channels.

Its a fact that when guns were banned in the UK, gun crimes went down. By making it harder to get guns by taking them out of the market almost altogether, then you save lives. They are still available for sports and hunting, via the proper licences. This isn't the wild west anymore. A dog and a decent lock is all you need to defend yourself, your family and your property.

The major hinderance of outlawing guns is that it means that only outlaws would carry guns...which makes them easier to spot, and easier to punish.

Then again, all criminals find a weapon. We have a big 'knife culture' now.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:57 pm

Up here in Canada, we have a National Gun Registry that puts all legally acquired firearms under a national registry. Each gun is tagged before sale. Whoever buys the gun must be licensed to do so, and his name would appear beside the serial number in the database. That way if he does anything bad with that gun, the feds would know.

Though it has prevented alot of shootings and has made us essentialy "safer", it didn't prevent the shootings in Dawson and Echole Polytechnique.

Even with the strictest gun/crime laws, things like this are bound to happen wherever hate exists in a human heart. Nothing can stop it.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:07 pm

I agree with Swiftoak in that there really isnt anything you can do to stamp these kinds of things out. I also think that these things are going to get much worse in the future.

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:13 pm

Jale wrote:Then again, all criminals find a weapon. We have a big 'knife culture' now.

From what I hear, knuckle dusters are popular in Leicester. And a bar below where I used to live had an axe murder and fire in one swoop after some disagreement.

Heck, even if guns were replaced by tranquilliser dart guns, or tazers, or rubber bullets, that would be a start. Obviously too much of those could kill, but, heck, if you need to defend yourself it would be ideal.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:17 pm

My school banned hangers because they're potential weapons. Really if you build a wall somebody's going to find a way to get over it. Thats probably one of the world's best taught lessons.

Just ask the Chinese...

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:05 am

Tyrion wrote:Really if you build a wall somebody's going to find a way to get over it. Thats probably one of the world's best taught lessons.

Just ask the Chinese...

Or the French. *cough*

(No disrespect meant, Gez.

)

For the record, the second pistol was apparently illegal. Also, the gunman apparently broke over 16 restriction laws by doing this.

And Swiftoak, that same system is used here. Though less stringently, It seems.

And generally I agree with Tyrion and Swift, this thing has been happening since Cain killed Abel, and though it might be decreased somewhat, people will always find a way to kill if properly motivated. (And unless the government starts hacking off hands, you come equipped with two potential weapons.)

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:23 am

But you never hear about mass stabbings or mass bow shootings.

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:38 pm

I'd be very interested in seeing some statistics on lives saved by legally purchased guns vs lives taken by legally purchased guns in the US. In this "I pulled a gun at the junkie in my yard who was trying to steal my car and he ran away" does not count as "saved the life of my whole family". Neither does "there was this junkie in my house carrying away my stereos so I pulled a gun at him, then he pulled a gun at me and I shot him".

You can't prevent all gun crimes by banning guns, but it sure doesn't help to have guns lying around in every home either. IMO the biggest advantage with banning firearms is that it will eventually change peoples attitude towards them. Allowing firearms for everybody is essentially saying that guns are okay. Over here guns are not okay. It's not something you want to own. The pure thought of using a gun to defend your property sounds ridiculous to most people. Using a gun do save the lives of your family is of course a different matter, but as there are no guns around we don't feel that the lives of our families are threatened.

Instead we also have the "knife culture". The advantage with this is that a knife is easier to outrun and it's in fact quite hard to kill someone by stabbing. Mostly by the time people feel like stabbing folks, they are quite drunk and don't have the required surgical precision. We actually had a mass stabbing when some drunk guy decided to start stabbing random bypassers in the street a couple of years ago, but iirc there were no deaths.

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:02 pm

even with the gun control over here in the uk it doesnt hinder violent crimes... about 8 years ago a man walked into a primary (5-10 year olds) school with a machette and went nuts. if people are going to cause harm to others, then its essentially unstopable, even with the strictest laws...

Firearms are surely a vaild means to defend ones home and property but on the other hand, we're all forgetting that regardless of gun control and registry it, people who chose to harm others will always be able to obtain a deadly weapon be it knife, gun, chainsaw or explosive. in conclusion, we all know that guns dont kill people... its the people that kill people

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:59 pm

You know what amazes me? This is the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history, with 32 dead. That being said, we are fucking armed. I struggle to figure out why our deadliest shooting hasn't left hundreds dead.
Now, let's not let this devolve into a gun control thingy. Politic-speak isn't allowed, mostly because the majority of us don't know what we're talking about.

NEENJA · Post by **NEENJA** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:22 am

I'm not meaning to turn this into a debate, but I just want to point out that one of the citizens' rights in our Bill of Rights is the right to bare arms. For those of you who don't know, the Bill of Rights states what our basic rights are. If a law goes against the Bill of Rights, (as would making firearms illegal) there would be hell to pay for the government, as it would in effect put our whole nation our of equilibrium. The kind of thing said would be "if they take away our guns, couldn't they take away our freedom of speech?" Cause both those items are on the same level in our Bill of Rights.

--the NEENJA

Starcrunch · Post by **Starcrunch** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:27 am

Please don't discuss politics here; it all ends in tears.

-Starcrunch

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:33 am

Huzzah

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:12 am

i swear thats in the forum rules somewhere, no religeous or political discussion..... maybe

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:19 am

Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to walk down the street and buy a gun. Alas, I'll never know. Guess I'll just stick to airsoft.

That was a pretty nasty shooting... but you have to admit he had his shit together a little more then your average suicidal rampage man. The guy at Dawson college in Montreal had an assault rifle and only one person was killed. (thank god, since it could have been much worse). He walked down the street with his gun out and went into the building where he just started shooting. The Montreal city cops ran straight in and shot him without hesitation (using their 9mm pistols)... as they've been trained to do.

This VT guy had two pistols.. a Glock ala Counterstrike terrorist.. and a 22 caliber pistol.. plus a 50 round clip. And to make it worse he chained the building doors from the inside and padlocked them.. trapping his victims inside. Shows quite a bit of nasty premeditation.

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:59 am

Banning guns isnt gonna be an easy step , especially with the NRA holding rallies all the time , look at collumbine when that happened the NRA held a rally in the same town like a couple days after the shootings.

Its really sickening , america has the highest gun crime rate of any country , The UK was sensible when dunblane happened we banned guns , even owning one for your work "gamekeepers" requires alot of applications and red tape to own it .

Although there is still some gun crime in the uk in london and various areas , they are almost neglible.

The police always have those amnesty days and thousands of weapons turn up at police stations and are destroyed.

America needs to lose their gun laws , and stop being so paranoid , and defensive.

When those shootings happen everyone is quick to blame anything from rock music to the parents , when simply its the righ to bare arms thats at fault .

amend the amendment to the amendment !

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:08 am

If someone wants to kill, he'll kill. Ban kitchen knives if you want to, it'll make no real difference since a pen can be as lethal as a knife. Plus, I think we're all mislead. The point here isn't to try and figure out what to do with all the firepower that's freely available, the point is to see that an average person took a gun and blasted away 40 kilos of brain mass. I don't think that every kid that started shooting people in the US or anywhere else had a condition. I believe though that they were affected by their environment and some simple thoughts like; "will I ever have time to live my life?"

I know I wanted to kill today. I was so pissed off with that bitch I would tear her scull apart and still smiled. But it wouldn't be my fault, nor would it be hers. Honestly, it would be because of the way we're taught to think and view things. And that's the bottom line of the Virginia shootout imo.

P.S. Don't kill. You'll only make the media and local shrinks wealthier.

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:15 am

here here

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:31 pm

One more post about gun controll and I'm locking this.

baevermannen · Post by **baevermannen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:12 pm

I heard that on the news that this massacre-guy think he was like Jesus or something

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:13 pm

As a student of a technical university I can understand where he was coming from, as they tend to be high-stress environments. I don't quite understand, however, how you can take an English Major in a TU.

Guns are the enchanted weapons of Earth...

baevermannen wrote:I heard that on the news that this massacre-guy think he was like ***** or something

More like the Nerevarine who got bored after finishing the Main Quest.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:49 pm

He did some messianic coments. But they, along with the rest of his manifesto didnt make sense. I'm suprized that this guy got into a competative school with such terrible writing skills. Dude, just because you repeate stuff like "I've been crucified" "You've torched my soul" and "You hedonistic ritch kids" dosent make your writing profound. In fact, it just makes it repetative emo bullshit.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:03 am

Tragedy.

The Second Amendment is rooted in the idea that a government occasionally needs to be overthrown.

NeoKatoth · Post by **NeoKatoth** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:40 am

that guy was a nut plain and simple...i just wonder why they let him out of the mental hospital....seriously...

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:29 pm

NeoKatoth wrote:that guy was a nut plain and simple...i just wonder why they let him out of the mental hospital....seriously...

I agree. From what I read, it was because he displayed "clear judgement" at the time.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:37 pm

They actually did take him to the school counceling, and he was under court order to see a psychiatrist...apparently the parents didn't comply. A quick prescription for 40mg of prozac a day would have probably been sufficient to prevent this kind of thing.

The problem is distinguishing people who will go off and kill people and those with problems who won't.

My entire Jr. High thought I was going to go on a columbine rampage after it happened because I was always picked on, and I played these "murder simulators" tv news loves to demonize. I fit their, and this guy's profile exactly, yet I'm completely stable and wouldn't even imagine doing something like this. So how do you differentiate between me and one of these violent psychos?

As for guns. Guns don't kill people, blood loss from holes in vital organs kill people.

EDIT: HAHAHAHA apparently the forum code thinks I'm an add bot because I mentioned prescribing a common medicine! Again showing the biggest underlying problem with any security measure, the false positive

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:28 pm

The word prescription (I assume that's what it was, may be a different one) was used maybe once or twice in the history of this board except for the spam bots

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:30 pm

Been hearing abut aprts of this all week, but never actual realised it was recent. Terrible.

Neenja thats just crap, the Bill of Rights was written virtually at the start of the 1800's, 1790 or nearby. Times have changed significantly, the ammendmants need to adopt to this new world.

Anyway, like a kind of resounding point, if people have the will they'll find a way. It's just a shame so many people are so determined to get there.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:02 am

The first sign of intelligence is the ability to follow directions.