q1-61-Tri

[Starcrunch]

With TT3 I am simplifying things by making it so that Yishni is always dead (it seems a bit weird that if you turned up at night she hadn't already died from earlier in the day (where if you had found her she'd have been dead)). Is there anything I should have on her corpse explaining anything, or would it be fine just to know vampirism is on the loose?

Also, how do I make her a vampire, with the different face etc.?

For upcoming TT4, what should the sigil of Molag Bal be?

And finally, for TT5 is it okay if I impose a "you must be curate rank here" restriction on the quest? Because I think Ratagos would realise that things are getting serious, and would want to keep the PC safe.

It's usually done by script (I would use a current vampire as a templatel that's usually the easiest, post here with the bloodline used as that will dictate some things about the MB cult vampire). Make sure you set a journal to play when the PC checks the body letting them know she is a vampire, because if she is dead it may be difficult to notice.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Right. Should I make a vampiric clone, as it were?

Also, should I choose a bloodline, or should Molag Bal cult's vampires be unafilliated? As she'll be dead it doesn't really matter either way though, right?

[Starcrunch]

Well there is only one vampire face per race (but change the hair to whatever you like). So all vampires are clones regardless of how they are made, but cloning one that already exists and giving the new version a unique ID, name, clothes, and hair is easiest (I've never been able to get the proper face to appear any other way; it's not a selectable portrait).

Yeah you're right, bloodline doesn't matter as she's dead (that was daft of me).

EDIT: Also since she's dead you won't have to write the dialog entries for her vampire voice sounds (each vampire has a unique set of entries).

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Does it matter if I use the control variable on the various commoners that the player has to drum up support with? I've just realised that under my current system, the PC can just talk to one guy infinitely, and get an infinite amount of 'commoner points'.

[Starcrunch]

That's what it's there for . This was without a doubt my favorite decision ever made for NPC's.

EDIT: If there is concern about this interfering with other quests, you can give each commoner NPC in town a different script called exactly like TR_M1_NPC that has an extra short that is toggled just for this quest. (I use control variables rather frequently in my quests and this use could interfere if they overlap). Especially beware of doing this in PT (as two commoners are used in my Pack Rats!!! misc. quest and that quest makes use of the control variable).

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yes indeed. I do love whoever put that there.

My only concern is that there's only one of them. Perhaps for the next Map's NPCs we could have three different controls: one for general dialogue, one for quests and one for the main quest of that map, or something like that, just so I don't worry so much about it having been set to something already.

After all, it'd only be two more lines, yet so much more useful!

Any thoughts on my other questions (up in that quote at the top)

[Starcrunch]

I've edited the above with a concern about blanket usage of control variable for large portions of a cities population.

@Curate Rank: Only if the PC can achieve that rank on Map 1 (I don't think they can).

@the Sigil: This was never made... Crap we really need this done as a new amulet mesh. For now just create an amulet of any type and call it something appropriate (the mesh can be changed when one is made; if one is not made I'm not sure what we should do). Lud, what do you think we should do?

@Yishni's Body: She needs nothing special on her corpse.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Would it be possible for me just to add a "q_control" variable to the TR_m1_NPC script? Because it would take a long time to hunt down all of Port Telvannis' commoners.

If not, that's okay.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Just a bit of a bump so my questions can be seen.

New question: How should the Molag Bal guy (from TT4) be dressed, apart from the amulet? Do they have any 'signature' clothing or style, or is it just generic Daedra worshipper?

[Theo]

I don't remember this being discussed, but I believe the cultists may have some ritual clothing, which they wear during ceremonies (possibly higher members only) and some casual clothes so that they could not be distinguished by sight (mostly for low level-weaklings) and could hide from prosecution. The order is quite secretive, but I believe the uber-bosses care little of not being recognized as they can kill any opposition instantly, if they have any reason to show in public (which they usually don't having their servants to do this for them.)

[Starcrunch]

No signiture clothing, just the sigil and perhaps a daedric STEEL weapon (they are in OoT, IIRC, and are basically normal steel weapon with some deadric writing on them; they aren't the uber daedric items everybody wants.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Right. And just re-asking my previous question (regarding the control variable used by the commoners of GO and PT) that appears to have been buried under everything else.

Would it be possible for me just to add a 'second' control variable to the TR_m1_NPC script? Because it would take a long time to hunt down all of Port Telvannis' commoners.

If not, that's okay.

[Lud]

If you can't think of another way to make it work, you can add a new variable. Name it something like TempleSupport or somesuch and post up the new version of the script. I will then have to ensure that TR_data is updated to include this script instead of the old version.

However, this adds an extra layer of awkwardness, so if you could think of a better way, I'd be grateful. Perhaps a new script just for PT commoners is the best way. Unless there's a reason why this causes problems.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm wanting to create a Chimeri artifact that the player could trade for the relic in Quest 5.

The main thought me and Crunch have had so far is some kind of chitin weaponry, seeing as that's a rather archaic (in Dunmer terms i.e favoured by Ashlanders) style of weaponry, one likely used by the Chimer.

A quick backstory I've just thought up is a dagger, the weapon of a Chimeri Daedric priest.

If acceptable, I'd like to replace the dagger found at the bottom of Dadadrome with this. (Because that means that it's possible the braver pilgrim will find it, which I need to be the case, as it's one of the pilgrimage sites)

Any ideas/comments welcome.

EDIT: @Lud, I could do that, it's just partly I really don't want to have to manually ID every commoner in PT/GO , and partly if any 3rd party mod (even a future version of TR) adds a commoner to PT/GO that doesn't have my new script (if I create one), then massive dialogue errors would ensue.

[Starcrunch]

Please note also that there are commoners in GO (the two Veloth's) that I put my own unique scripts on. This is already going to cause all kinds of trouble... Could we perhaps do it via a token? Add a token (unique ID reference) when the PC talks to an NPC about the Temple the token is added to the NPC inventory and the global variable is incremented (but only if they don't already have the token).

The dialog results box would read something like this:

Code: Select all

if ( GetItemCount "TR_token" == 0 )
 set TR_My_Global to ( TR_My_Global + 1 )
 additem "TR_token 1
endif

When the quest is complete if you want all the tokens to be removed write a global script that starts when they get a token (it's targeted onto the NPC) and removes the token when the quest is called complete and removes the token from the NPC's inventory. The script should be started using startscript when the PC talks to the NPC about the temple (in the if/then block above, and remove the item when the last journal is added, then it should have a stopscript command; if this doesn't work it's not that bad that all of the NPC's that you talk to have the token anyway; and removing the tokens may not work this way but I believe that as a targeted global script it should work).

-Starcrunch

[Lud]

That Chimer weapon sounds good; if you want to have something that look chitin while also being unique, you could use TR's "Aena" set. I always thought of that set as being alternative chitin.

And on the variables, if Crunch's token thingy doesn't wor, change the map1 NPC script. Just make sure to tell me how you did so

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

<snip>

That might have worked, but thinking about it, for some idiotic reason there's no way to check an NPCs inventory via normal dialogue. Unless I'm going to include a really complex choice thing in the results box (where I can check their inventory) it can't be done without control. And I've got more than enough bonkers dialogue antics for one questline.

(Point in case "message to Port Telvannis", where it takes nine (NINE!) seperate lines of dialogue to ensure the quest wraps up properly. And don't get me started on those escorting pilgrims. (To put it simply, THIRTEEN!!!) )

Anyway, if there's any other solutions possible, I'd love to hear 'em.

EDIT: @Lud, I may have to do that. In which case, Crunch'll have to add that variable to his Gah Ouadaruhn Veloths.

[Starcrunch]

The beauty is you don't need to check in dialog conditions. The dialog will play over and over again, but the count will only increase the first time due to the if/then loop in the dialog results box.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I know that's the case, but my problem is that they'll be giving the same dialogue lines each time (even if what's going on behind the scenes is different), so there's no way for the player to know whether they've talked to that person before. It also gives those who would wish to cheat no indication that they're failing. (Which would waste alot of their precious time)

Also, if someone could come up with some suitably translated name for my Chimeri weapon (preferably in whatever language would be considered closest to Chimeri: probably the one used for town names) that'd be great.

Thanks all, once again.

[Starcrunch]

If the player is too daft to keep track of who they've already spoken to, they deserve to score lowly...

Second idea: Modify the NPC's hello setting, which I believe can be filtered for in dialog. I.e. when the PC talks to that person put the following line in the results box: SetHello 29

Nobody will ever be able to tell the difference between Hello level of 30 and a Hello level of 29 (or 31 for that matter). You can then filter it by Function->Hello->!=29 for your dialog that increments the global.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

That could just work. Is there any value that is guaranteed to be within a certain range, that I could use for a similar purpose?

Oh, and my reason for wanting this is just so that we don't get weird dialogue where you 'convince' someone repeatedly.

Also, anyone I could ask about naming the weapon? Or are you thinking about that now?

[Starcrunch]

By default Hello is set to 30. It would be stupendously improbable that anyone would set it to 29 or 31. Those values are safe. No other handle that I'm aware of is as rarely changed (and meaningless when it is changed) as Hello. Your choices here are basically Hello, Fight, Alarm, and Flee. The other 3 vary wildly and changing them will noticeably affect NPC behavior.

I'm not great with names, but I'll try to think of something. Nomadic is usually good at this stuff, and a post in the lore forum (just use the long Map 1 quest discussion topic) should get you a reasonable response.

-Starcrunch

[Nomadic1]

People could give you a name for a Chimeri weapon if you gave an idea of what the weapon would be like.

BTW: I know who you are BC You aren't that new, and, despite the fact I don't post in the quest forums, I follow what goes on here.

[Theo]

I believe "Hello" is the variable that determines the conditions under which you get the voice greeting from NPC. The higher the more likely NPC is to use voice greeting on longer distance. But it is just my hypothesis, I haven't tested it yet.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, thanks Nomadic.

The weapon in question belonged to a Chimeri Daedric Preist (so pre-Tribunal if that helps), and its model is TR's Aena set's sickle. (Short Blade)

As for enchantment, it has Absorb Magicka and Absorb Health enchantments. Absorb Magicka is 5 points, 5 secs; Absorb Health is 4-6 points, 5 secs.

If it's some other form of info you wanted, don't hesitate to ask.

And @Theo, we know what Hello does (you're right, BTW), we were just discussing a value that could be checked for in dialogue tht would likely always be the same for any given NPC. Hello is almost always left at 30, so if I change it to 31 to show that NPC's been spoken to, there's likely to be no way of telling what I've done.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

One slight problem that has just turned up is that the NPC Marcus Assirius, spoken of in the Q6 brief doesn't exist in-game.

Should I change who it is the player has to speak to, or should I create him?

Also for that quest, could I have the background for those two (Ratagos and Marcus/equivalent), and what kind of response is the player going to get from Marcus? Will he just blithely accept it (this is how I'm doing it at the minute, but it looks weird as I don't really understand either side's position here), or will he just say "I'll think about it"?

Thanks for any help.

EDIT: On a seperate note, Nomadic, any thoughts on that name?

[groza528]

speaking of hello, remember that the hello distance for a vampire should be 0 because otherwise they will greet you in an ordinary, undistorted voice. Moot if the only vampire here is dead, of course.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Don't worry, this is just a means for me to log which of PT and GO's commoners (so no vampires) the PC has spoken to. To do so I will modify their hello value to be 31, a negligible difference that will be nigh on undetectable, but still allow correct dialogue filtering.

Any thoughts on my other questions, anyone?

[Nomadic1]

For the weapon, your bets would be on "Person's Sickle" or "Sickle of Person".

I don't actually know what a Chimeri name would be like. My guess is that it would be similar to Sotha Sil or Ashlander names like Sul-Senipul. But you should probably find a smart lore person to get a better answer.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Right. Well if you get me "sickle of", I could probably come up with a suitable name (seeing as Chimeri names seem mainly to be 'Dunmer' as we know them today : I assume Divayth Fyr was a Chimer, as were Sotha Sil, Vivec and Almalexia. Also, Alandro Sul etc. and none of those (save Alma) are drastically stylisticly different as far as I can see from most Dunmer names)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Any hope with the translation, or (when Crunch gets back) my questions about Q6?

[Lud]

How about "Kana-revis" as a name for the sickle? (Revis' knife)
[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=3912&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40[/url]
(Yeah, I know that most of the TR dunmeri is just made up)

What's your question re Q6?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

These be they.

One slight problem that has just turned up is that the NPC Marcus Assirius, spoken of in the Q6 brief doesn't exist in-game.

Should I change who it is the player has to speak to, or should I create him?

Also for that quest, could I have the background for those two (Ratagos and Marcus/equivalent), and what kind of response is the player going to get from Marcus? Will he just blithely accept it (this is how I'm doing it at the minute, but it looks weird as I don't really understand either side's position here), or will he just say "I'll think about it"?

Oh, and thanks for the name. I'll go with that.

[Lud]

Crunch will have to fill you in on the backgrounds (he wrote these quests), but you can just go ahead and create Marcus.

[El Scumbago]

Edit: Ignore this, I just answered to a question that had already been answered.

[Starcrunch]

Marcus Assirius is an old NPC, if he is gone use who ever is handy in the FW IC chapel. when the questline was written the chapel was a small one-NPC room in the palace, and Marcus was either that one NPC or a new one I made up for the Imperial Cult quest line.

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, I'll use the ranking member at the Firewatch Cult in his place.

The final question still stands:

"Also for that quest, could I have the background for those two (Ratagos and Marcus/equivalent), and what kind of response is the player going to get from Marcus? Will he just blithely accept it (this is how I'm doing it at the minute, but it looks weird as I don't really understand either side's position here), or will he just say "I'll think about it"? "

[Theo]

How about Imperial Cult/Legion quests? Are they going to be made? (Perhaps few minor ones for Imperial legion should be made as well as its presence on map 1 is stronger then of Tribunal Temple.)
Also - What is the development on Molag Bal? I would be willing to submit a design, claim and make the questline, but some people are still not very satisfied with the current version.
Sorry if this is out of place.

[Starcrunch]

Okay, I'll use the ranking member at the Firewatch Cult in his place.

The final question still stands:

"Also for that quest, could I have the background for those two (Ratagos and Marcus/equivalent), and what kind of response is the player going to get from Marcus? Will he just blithely accept it (this is how I'm doing it at the minute, but it looks weird as I don't really understand either side's position here), or will he just say "I'll think about it"? "

Well there isn't really anything Marcus can do about it. Ratagos is hostile to the IC, whereas Marcus used to have a working relationship with Ratagos's predecessor (they were all about helping the people and each other as neither was powerful, i.e. the best aspects of both religions; the predecessor lost his position in part due to being overly chummy with Marcus, and Ratagos doesn't want to repeat this mistake). None of the above should indicate that Ratagos is "evil" but he does have an eye out to avoid doing things that will cost him his job. Marcus should come across as a good, competent, and above all pragmatic priest (there is an IC quest (SS1, IIRC) where Marcus tries to renew ties with the Temple and start cooperating with Ratagos who declines his request).

-Starcrunch

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, I'm going to go with: Marcus (or whoever it is) agrees, but only out of his desire to appease Ratagos.

This should be finished up relatively soon now. (Then I have to finish testing, which could take a while, seeing how many different situations and variables there are involved with this questline)

One final (almost certainly this time ) question is, can you name three expendable villagers from Ranyon-ruhn for that last quest? I couldn't find a list of Ranyon-ruhn misc or major quests anywhere, and so I've no idea who it matters to kill or not. (Assuming they go vampiric)