The Decadence Of Prince Fanta

[Harke the Apostle]

Tomorrow I will post a Concept of the Monument To Prince Fanta in the CA Ruins discussion. I feel that there should be at least one statue of him in-game.

Prince Fanta has made only a very small incursion into TES Lore.

I feel that Prince Fanta might be included at Lainebon Place.
I feel he might have turned into an Ancient Lich, a Vampire or something even more terrible.

When I imagine Prince Fanta, I think about a Redguard with big hair (big enough to make him seem anachronistic, but not big enough to be rediculous, see American hairstyles for black men +- 1979) wearing some kind of exquisite dark clothing.
He made a deal with some Baddy, and then died in a nasty debauched way.
His halls of revelry were decorated with Lutemoth's tapirs.
He liked to drink.

What are you thoughts on Prince Fanta?

Arena:

Lainebon Place
Climate: desert
Special: port, ruler: Prince Fanta (sic!)

Not Lore:

Ancient inscription (intro to Seven Samurai):

Prince Fanta, Arrogant, Decadent,
Prince Fanta Sold His Soul To Molag Bal
Prince fanta Resides In The Halls Crypts of Lainebon Forevermore

Harke the Apostle's Showcase:

Festivals

On the 16th of Morning Star, the monument of Prince Fanta is ceremonially offered a libation of orange brine from the local lakes. The ritual coincides with the Festival of Lights, held further up north in Hammerfell. As the people of Lainebon Place don’t fish or farm, this festival has fallen into disuse there.

[Jale]

Prince Fanta?

Fanta?

[img]http://www.cogulus.com/archive/simsandwich/pics/fanta_large.jpg[/img]

Are you freaking kidding.

[Harke the Apostle]

Are you freaking kidding.

Perhaps Bethesda Softworks were in 1994. But if they were, who are you to judge them?

[Jale]

I can find no reference to him on TIL, and if he's not on TIL then its reasonable to assume that he is so ridiculously esoteric that we don't need to use a stupid name for him.

There is more 'lore' stating that King Bubba rules than there is that Prince Fanta exists. And King Bubba is a placeholder name.

[Harke the Apostle]

I can find no reference to him on TIL, and if he's not on TIL then its reasonable to assume that he is so ridiculously esoteric that we don't need to use a stupid name for him.

There is more 'lore' stating that King Bubba rules than there is that Prince Fanta exists. And King Bubba is a placeholder name.

I like both of them. I feel the names might be used to expand the TES-universe. I like the 'archaic' sound they have. But feel free to come up with another name, if you believe that is more appropriate for TR.

[edit] esoteric => good

[Nalin]

@Harke

Tell me about prince Fanta - who he is and why he's important enough to remain named Fanta...I'm kind of with Jale on the "Fanta is a beverage made by Coca Cola and everyone will laugh too much at that" thing. Beth has a history of changing things around though (The looks and voices of races - names of places (slightly) - I think i even came across an "Akavari katana" in the IC) why not just name him "Fante" or something similar...We could always say it was just another spelling error.

[Jale]

@Harke

Tell me about prince Fanta - who he is and why he's important enough to remain named Fanta...I'm kind of with Jale on the "Fanta is a beverage made by Coca Cola and everyone will laugh too much at that" thing. Beth has a history of changing things around though (The looks and voices of races - names of places (slightly) - I think i even came across an "Akavari katana" in the IC) why not just name him "Fante" or something similar...We could always say it was just another spelling error.

We need no such justification. I will give good money to a charity of your choice if you can find someone who will unprompted take issue with the change from something completely silly.

And in what Bizarro world are Bubba and Fanta archaic???

Fante, Fente, Fenta, Fonte and Fonta are all perfectly acceptible permutations.

[Harke the Apostle]

And in what Bizarro world are Bubba and Fanta archaic???

Thou sayst it.

@ Jale and Nalin:

I you don't like the name think of something more remote from Fanta, or leave it be.

Fanta is an African name. It means 'beautiful day'.

Let's move on. Should there be a ruin or a quest?
I'm thinking of a large wine-cellar.

(in case of disagreement use name as place holder)

[edit]
@ Nalin: I'm working on the backstory of Prince Fanta.
I will have to make it all up. The Monument doesn't have huge significance to Hammerfell, it's just a Lore reference to please the persistent TES-gamer & Lore fanatic.

[Jale]

Where on earth are you getting all this crap from?

Til: No mention of Fanta
Google: No mention of Fanta in TES

The fact that it is in a ridicolously obscure way african is irrelevant. It is overtly of western capitalism. For the record here are more african names you should stay away from:

Wub
Leza
Kissa
Bella
Artemis
Circe
Aphrodite
Andromeda

They are all perfectly good African names, but each has a more common western meaning which far overrides any esoteric reason. And its

Esoteric =/= Good

Esoteric + Possibly understandable if you try - overt common usage => Good

EDIT: Its also a good idea to think up a quest or setting first, and think of names later.

[Harke the Apostle]

Where on earth are you getting all this crap from?

The Hammerfell Lore topic.

Wub
Leza
Kissa
Bella
Artemis
Circe
Aphrodite
Andromeda

They are all perfectly good African names, but each has a more common western meaning which far overrides any esoteric reason.

Did you go to grammar school? Six out of eight of these names are about as African as my aunt Hildegard.
But this is beside the point everyone who has ever traveled or studied languages knows that words in other languages (Yoku) may be the same as something completely unrelated in your own.
I still remember with glee the latin lesson we had with consisted of a tale about an anus. (It turned out to be about an old woman).

[Jale]

Oh an insult about my intelligence? How wonderfully smart of you.

The reason I point those out are because they are on the only list I could find which listed Fanta as an african name. And they are greek, but found their way into african culture due to the Mediterranean influence in classical times. And you only go to show my point: they have such an overwhelming primary meaning that the fact that they can be used in an african context is pointless. Just like Fanta.

Now stop being a petulant child.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

prince fanta? wtf? LOL! Work for Fanta, don't you wanna work for Fanta...

Seriously, do not use any name that sounds like anything in real life! It will only lead to problems when someone reads it and can not think beyond the RL meaning. Prince Fanta (assuming he actually exists) was probably named such because that was what they were drinking when they thought him up.

[Sload]

I like Prince Fanta. As long as he's flaming gay.

Seriously, guys. Sail-Bad the Sinner was a few hundred times worse.

[Haplo]

And Sail-bad the Sinner is also being changed.

[Jale]

As long as he's flaming gay.

Regardless of what they are called, hammerfell needs some flaming gays.

[Sload]

So it's settled. Prince Fanta stays.

[Haplo]

erm...

[Jale]

So it's settled. Prince Fanta stays.

Yes he stays in the state from whence he came.

Completely unrelated to TES and thus not in the mod.

May his flagrant gay facsimile live a long and happy life.

[Lady Nerevar]

i dont see the point of developing what is most likly a place holder name from a minor inscription in an old game that was larger then britain into a whole elaborate part of lore (wheather it be a ruin, quest line, holyday, etc.)

i wouldnt mind some flaming gay guys in hammerfell, but not one named Fanta and so honored. its silly, dont make me make up a King Bubba story.

[Jale]

Flaming gay princeling, goddamnit!

We can have some fun quests where you have to try and instill some manliness in him for his father, the prince.

[Lady Nerevar]

can we have him hit on male characters?

[Starcrunch]

Snip

Well this has been an entertaining read. Now for a bit of criticism:

• 1. The name is not very good, and it invokes imagery that breaks the suspension of disbelief. The image of the Fanta product (and it's sales pitch) are sure to cross mots player's minds and we don't want to distract the player from our game.
• 2. There is no basis (particularly considering the picture you paint otherwise) for transforming him into a vampire or lich. In addition the ideas have little narrative purpose, and certainly retread familiar ground. Why can't a character simply be a nice, normal, decadent, whoring, shallow individual capable of great cruelty via blithe indifference? I find this to be a far more terrifyingly creature than any undead monster, since it hits so much nearer home. Even in the TES world, indifference and ignorance, even, and especially, ignorance coupled with morality, lead to far more pain and suffering than monsters.
• 3. Having big hair may (or may not) be anachronistic in modern American society, but there is no evidence that it can be considered such in Redguard society. Simply put in order for a thing to become anachronistic it must become outmoded, and that can only occur if the thing was at some point a dominant characteristic of a culture. There is no evidence that Redguards went through a "big hair" era. All in all this strikes me as shallow, and dependent on Caucasian racial stereotypes of African-Americans (i.e. it seems anachronistic not because of Redguard cultural history, but due to American racial stereotypes).*
• 4. Having him die in some horrible way due to his low morals seems not unreasonable. Why is it that all of our stories end with the "bad" folks getting their comeuppance? For writing your book maybe it would be better to illustrate his immorality (and that of his peers) via satire, rather than another tired tale that has the "right" message, but lacks the resonance of art. Most subjects in the TES world are difficult to satirize, due to the players lack of familiarity with the world, but rulers of low-moral character are much the same in the real world as the TES world, and so, in this case it can be done.

-Starcrunch

*Please don't turn this into a debate about racial politics in the US (or anywhere else), I'm only pointing out that the "big hair" idea only works with the backdrop of contemporary American racial stereotypes to prop it up.

[CleverClothe]

I like the flaming gay prince idea. Especially if it allows us to create a truely Yoku style of homosexuality.

*And I still thing Sail-bad the Sinner isn't a bad name*

[Sload]

Sorry, I kinda assumed Harke was just going to write another stupid book.

As for the flaming gay prince, that's in Gilane. Or else.

[Nomadic1]

Gilane would fit for a flaming gay guy. Let's not call him Fanta though, nor should we make him a vampire/lich with big hair.

[Harke the Apostle]

Here's the concept:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=214992#214992

If Fanta is too crappy, how about 'Prince Phantasma'?
(that keeps the Fanta running). As for depravity, rather than limiting PF to being gay, I'd like too keep all options open.

Did he drink too much?
Was he addicted to Skooma and did he execute his subjects at his whim?
Did he spend all his realm's money on lavish luxury?
Did he consort with daedra?

But perhaps these considerations are not even important.
Perhaps Prince Fanta is only present as a sculpture in the back of the yard of the homestead/inn/farm that is Lainebon Place.

[Nomadic1]

If Fanta is too crappy, how about 'Prince Phantasma'?
(that keeps the Fanta running). As for depravity, rather than limiting PF to being gay, I'd like too keep all options open.

I burst out laughing when I read "Phantasma".

Being gay isn't really depravity unless you are real-world religious (correct me if I'm wrong). It would suck arse to have that in the TES universe. Nah, I reckon just put him in and say no more. Being a flaming gay guy would make him noticable enough to the PC.

[Gnomey]

Though based on the dialogue about Crassius Curio it isn't anything that people would want to make public either.

[Hemitheon]

Hold on, if he is truly decadent then he needs to be bisexual and not solely gay. His character must not be tainted by a Western idea of decadence. In many Eastern cultures homosexuality is not decadent but a holy thing. Look at the views from Native Americans, Indians, Greeks, etc. If you make him decadent then perhaps it is more along the lines of religion, a cult if you will which performs sexual acts and debauchery for the sake of the gods. See Ophites, Dionysians, Diabolatry, Yazidi devil worship.

Perhaps he performs sexual acts and debauchery to reach a higher state of being. Ive been working on a fantasy story in which there is a debauched sorcerer named Ono'e who practices flesh magic through which he molds flesh in the hopes of attaining immortality. As for a name perhaps something less African and more Middle Eastern. Hammerfell has aspects of both.

Heck. Since there are so many Hammerfellian spirits/gods, perhaps Fanta worships a spirit which he believes is supreme to the others, like a deceiving spirit. That kind of story is common. See Solomonic views of the Cults of Moloch and Baal Peor for example.

edit 1:

OH WAIT he's dead. So forget all that other stuff. But hey maybe at like 12 pm the base of the statue opens up revealing the entrance to his hidden seraglio.

edit 2:

hey keep his name Fanta and as an easter egg he can be holding either a can or an orange.

[Harke the Apostle]

@Hemitheon:

I think it's called The Way Of Drunkeness And Abandon, and it belongs to the Left Hand Path. However The Way Of Drunkeness And Abandon belongs to a mystic, a religious person, not to a prince who is secular.
I do like the idea of Hammerfell having Dark Saints, but it's not what I had in mind for Fanta.

However he could be/have been a 'Satanist' who has made a pact with some baddy to ensnare unwary travellers.

[Jale]

Drop the fanta name.

Its not for debauchery that he is gay, its for colour, comic relief and contrast.

[Eldarion]

May I suggest you play around with a few alternate spellings that do not alter the overall phonetics of the word to a terrible degree.

F'anta (my suggestion)

[Nomadic1]

Does anyone else think that the statue of Fanta was added as an easter egg homage to one of the dev's favourite drink?

[Macar]

Heck- If we are going to go all out with sexual debauchery we should add sheep to the list (sheep are sluts)

[sapien]

what is it with you lot and gays ?

[Lady Nerevar]

i think its mostly this thread...

...i atribute it to the amazing level of testosterone on these boards since i am the only female remaining. if we had more boobs it would go hetro again

(just jokin' around, no offence to anyone)

[Sload]

what is it with you lot and gays ?

What's with you and straight people?

If the flags not a big enough hint, I'm a faggot.

Gays are underrepresented in TES, like they are in most things. Homosexuality (and sexuality in general) would be completely accepted in Hammerfell.

[Hemitheon]

To play the Devil's advocate may I remind everyone there is as of yet no out-of-the-closet lesbian in the game so who really is not being represented? How bout instead. We steer away from orientation and direct this whole issue towards fetishes. Maybe Fanta has a foot fetish or how bout a dendrophiliac? You can't tell me you wouldnt laugh if you saw a guy coming on to a tree in the game or maybe rubbing himself with bark. and for fun he makes u rub yourself with bark or collide with a tree a few times. This way sexual orientation is kept in its place, and PFLAG wont kill us for making gay characters based on stereotypes.

[sapien]

i wasnt getting at anyone for being gay , i just thought you lot were bashing them a bit much with all these gay characters. Just thought there would be way too much stereotype in the game if we had loads of gays , not that loads of gays is a bad thing !

anyways , i think like hemitheon said we should have people with bizarre fetish's , like that lady who is a necrophiliac!

that was weird and made me laugh, good thing is were not gonna get a ton of necros complaining we ripped them in the mod !

the gay communinity however might not find the humerous side in it all !

[Nomadic1]

I'm a poof too, and I can't imagine anyone I know being offended by the most outrageous gay stereotype.

The necrophiliac was the most memorable character in TESIV IMO. But I'm not sure it was a good thing - she was not at all important in any way, shape or form. I can barely remember the Emperor or Martin Septim, both far more important in the story but largely forgettable. If we do make NPCs that deviant/different/funny, we should probably make them important in quests, hence the king or whatever of Gilane being one.