City Walls (fortifications)

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:45 pm

Hi! The last week I was working with Fairwaters help on this Concept Art:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/ConceptArt/Model%20Concepts/HF-RSFortifications.jpg

This is what I got now:
[url=http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wallsbrightny1.jpg][img]http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/673/wallsbrightny1.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wallsbrightdwaad5.jpg][img]http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9306/wallsbrightdwaad5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

It's still WIP. The second tower has to be done(a simple modification of the first). I have to remove some vertices and add better uvw mapping. And the textures on this are only an example. I also tought about creating some kind of gate or entrance for this set. If someone has any ideas about the gates or adding something more to this set, please post it here!

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:52 pm

Yea i was just going to say that we need to figure out a gate.... i just want to hear what everyone else says before we move on to that!

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:24 pm

Well there are a few options:

1. Gate literally built into the wall with little ornamentation...simple archway.
2. Gate flanked by towers, but still built into the wall.
3. Proper Gatehouse with all the pageantry that goes with it.

Number 1 would be pretty strange...you don't usually see the walls simply without towers, so in that case it would be very unique.

Number 2 is pretty much what they did in Cyrodiil and is fairly dull and easy

Number 3 is quite fun, and certainly more imposing, but it does necessitate some form of interior too: typically a public building like a court, guardhouse or guildhall. Would be pretty good for militia stuff.

Personally I would go for 3, but its more work.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:31 pm

Part of me is looking at that tower and saying..... wouldnt it be awesome if they were way taller?.... what does everone think?

Yea jale, number 3 would be nice.... it reminds me of Dark messiahs of miht and magic...that opening sequence. But i have a feeling like it might just be to much work for the gain it brings.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:31 pm

One way of it to look at it, if you assume that it would become the guard house in every city that uses it, then you don't need a guard house model instead.

And they are usually very impressive structures, which would be nice. Usually very very tall and imposing.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:37 pm

Looking good. Just remember that the wall has to be taller then the highest viewpoint within the city.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:48 pm

They look really good mate

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat May 12, 2007 1:46 pm

Thanks Haplo! I made some changes. Here's a small list:
-fixed some smoothing issues
-reduced unecessary polies
-made the tower a bit higher
-aligned the tower to the wall
-improved the uvw mapping

Screens:
[url=http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highertowergy0.jpg][img]http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5466/highertowergy0.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highertower02ss7.jpg][img]http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1729/highertower02ss7.th.jpg[/img][/url]
If you look at the second screen, you can see I have a problem. What to do with this... The wall shape has to stay as it is, but it just doesn't match the tower the way it is now. Should I just make the wall more narrow?

I'm also a fan of number 3. And shouldn't we make more elements for the city walls? Now there are only two tower versions and a wall. Isn't that too generic?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:25 pm

looking great

Joco · Post by **Joco** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:43 pm

Yea, a really nice mesh and nice texture man! Looks Oblivionous!

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:49 pm

*warning! I know jack shit about modeling!*

To fix your problem, couldn't you just make the wall part a bit longer while leaving the tower things in place? (so you would have enough to actually go into the tower.)

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:37 pm

The walls must be exactly the same from two sides, so that modders can put them in a row, just like the first screens(3wall segments put in a row)....

after a minute:

No, that's ok, I have an idea

Thanks Thrignar!
Thank you Lady N., thank you Joco. But those textures are going to be replaced

With better ones

And that was my idea:
[url=http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=idea0001xc8.jpg][img]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7951/idea0001xc8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I just added few faces and scaled them down and moved a bit.
I don't know what Faiwater would say abuot this, it's a weird solution, but it works!

We still have to decide about the gates

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:02 pm

gate, hms. here is a quick concept i put together by splicing El Scum's:

[url=http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gatelq5.jpg][img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3747/gatelq5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

basicaly, the gate is slightly taller then the rest of the walls but follows the general style.

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:23 pm

I like the gate house option best.

Also, I think the walls should be made to look like you can walk on them (like the standard Oblivion walls), even if they player won't be able to.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:26 pm

ok lets do the gate house.... now we need a concept!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:53 am

Nobody recalls that the poor scum would prefer to design these anew. Bah, nevermind, the meshes are beautiful.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:55 am

haha scummy scummy these are great.... concepts you should love your own work. Anyways...part of me is feeling unsatified with the tower..... i think we need to do something to it.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:58 am

Let the Daedra take care of the tower!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:09 am

I'd have to agree with scummy. Beautiful mesh, but he should given the chance to design something which matches Rihad's architectural style. These are very old wall concepts. Perhaps these walls can we used for a special purpose.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:33 am

You know these could be the walls for the palace! scummy let me know if you still want to make a new wall set!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:37 am

Yes, I'd like to give it a shot. If all goes well, I'll upload the pics by Monday.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:04 am

I feel excited to model out some new walls. Can't wait for you concepts "Scummy"

But I'm sure these walls are going to fit somewhere. Fairwater, please wait for me to model the second tower, it can be more interesting than this one. BTW, new textures:
[url=http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brickversion01wo8.jpg][img]http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7108/brickversion01wo8.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brickversion02lu3.jpg][img]http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6212/brickversion02lu3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:56 am

I do have a concept for the doors in trhe gate coming. Will you be modeling those at this point, or will they be added at a later stage?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:04 pm

Fairwater should make a decision. Those meshes are almost finished and ready to export. In any case, it would be nice to see those concepts

New Tower:
[url=http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kopianewtowersv8.jpg][img]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/534/kopianewtowersv8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:12 pm

Dont worry yourself aro these meshs are awesome and they will be used i think they might work perfectly as ornate walls surrounding the palaces.... lets just wait and see what scummy whips up before we jump to any conclusions though

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:42 pm

I agree, those walls are really nice and I want to create a similar arch style to put them in use. And, I now I said monday, and it's monday right now, but I'm never on time. Which means the job'll be done tomorrow.

agram · Post by **agram** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:03 pm

These walls look excelent, great work aro101.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:53 pm

Hello there aro! The wall looks great. Anyways, shouldn't the wall be two separate meshes? As far as I know, cities are sort of an interior. So, why do you need the outer part of the wall, when you're only able to see the inner part and vice versa?

Greetings

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:02 pm

ah good point. Horodnic, where'd you come form?

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:11 pm

ah good point. Horodnic, where'd you come form?

From the hardest school year. I'm going to have my last exam in two days. I'll have more time for other stuff than school. It's one month from now until the holiday. Can't wait for it!

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:22 pm

Hi! I used to play a lot Morrowind, not Oblivion, and as you know, in MW almost all cities are just normal exteriors

And also...

Also, I think the walls should be made to look like you can walk on them (like the standard Oblivion walls), even if they player won't be able to.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:25 pm

The way you are doing it it fine Aro. This way we don't need two sets of walls, one for outside the city and one for inside the city.

Have you fixed up the minor problems you found in your meshes? If so, wanna upload the max or 3ds files?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue May 15, 2007 4:47 pm

Hmm... I fixed everything I was supposed to fix! Thanks Noirgrim, I got only to remove some faces... I upload the files in few hours. Just give me some time

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:20 pm

And here it is! BTW, does someone know how to make relative paths in 3dsmax? And when I was exporting the mesh into .3ds it told me something about renaming the textures... I just wonder why. I hope I figure it out soon

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:41 pm

Go with the first option because Jale said it was strange.

Morden wrote:I'd have to agree with scummy. Beautiful mesh, but he should given the chance to design something which matches Rihad's architectural style. These are very old wall concepts. Perhaps these walls can we used for a special purpose.

Except that it shouldn't match Rihad specifically cause its for the whole province.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Wed May 16, 2007 12:23 am

The only thing that should match the city specifly should be the gaurd towers!

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:43 pm

So what's the decision for the walls and towers?

And I wonder how are El Scumbagos new concepts...

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:20 am

here aro i am going to throw the "offical texture on the walls right now!" see how they look!

edit.... it seems the uv map is distorted in exporting... Aro could you apply the finals? we are just finishing up and i will send them over soon!

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:02 pm

Do you know why it gets distorted in exporting? Yeah, I can try to export it as soon, as you send me the textures. But I still don't have Oblivion. I'm planning to get it in two weeks.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:42 pm

Dont worry you actually dont need oblivion to export it...which is good....all you actually need is the cs.... and i beleive the cs can run without having oblvion installed but you have the oblivion .esm but you can still check your models in it quickly. Once we get the textures to you and you are ready let me know and i will help you with exporting!