Models needed for Morrowind

[Lud]

There are a number of models we need in order to progress with the Morrowind project. Having started on Tear, I have a few ideas for some simple mesh edits and retextures that could be used to create a semi-unique Dres architecture, based on the Redguard comic. I'll post exactly what I mean soon. In the meantime, this thread will be used for listing needed objects. To start off:
-Shrines for both Soth Sil and Almalexia, in a similar style to Vivec's

More to come, if anybody knows of more objects needed, post here.(Things that are actually necessary, obviously)

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I have a few ideas for some simple mesh edits and retextures that could be used to create a semi-unique Dres architecture

Why? I thought we were going to use velothi, in fact, I KNOW we said we were going to do velothi, I KNOW many of the towns have been redone, I KNOW I am currently doing Silnim dale in Velothi. Do we REALLY need to switch tilesets AGAIN?

oh, and I oculd have sworn there were some dres banners in TR_Data, but I can't seem to find them. We need those, or I need a smack on the head and a point in the right direction.

[Tyrion]

Don't we have Almalexia statues already?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I think he means the triangle things. you know, the actual activator shine-a-majigs.

[Tyrion]

Ohhhhh the trioliths, or whatever they're called. We're actually making different ones for Almalexia and Sotha Sil? I'm either a: very out of the loop on whats going on, b: thinking of the wrong triangle shrine thing, c: thinking that Beth already used regular trioliths in Mournhold.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

You stole my post, Lud!

Yep, those trioliths are needed for Temple pilgrimages (currently we're using rotated Tribunal trioliths).

Here is what I tried, and failed, to post yesterday:

• Anyway, one object sorely missing from Morrowind's TR_Data is a "just Almalexia" and "just Sotha Sil" triolith. These are needed to make our Temple pilgrimages more authentic, and shouldn't be too much hastle to make. All that's needed are two standard "one face" trioliths, with the Ayem/Seht images from the Tribunal triolith on them.
  
  When this is put in TR_Data/wherever it goes, it would be extremely handy if the base object is an activator already, so that questing folk like myself don't have to muck around with BSAs to get the things into activator form.

On another note, there's also a couple of meshes that could do with fixing/remaking. I'll be back with the list shortly.

This is possibly too OTT, but here's the list of stuff that I'd (personally) like to see improved, from the Object Error thread:

• Object: tr_ex_statue_felms01
  Error: Vertices are very obvious on it. Could use smoothing.
  
  Object: TR_ex_statue_llothis01
  Error: Looks slightly "hunchbacked" from the front. Not important, though.
  
  Object: TR_ex_statue_soldier01
  Error: From certain angles, the helm's chin has a hole in it.
  
  Object:TR_ex_statue_SS01
  Error: Pose is unweildy, and helm is broken (á la dead Sotha) Helm should be fixed. I would really love to see this statue done even better, and perhaps a couple other Tribunal related statues in general.
  
  Object: Mounted Dres Guard
  Error: The Mounted Dres Guard's idle anim looks jerky.
  
  Object: Silt Strider (wild)
  Error: Silt Striders have no turning animation, and just snap to their new direction. (This could be something you can't fix though)
  
  Object: Vermai
  Errors:
  1)It's "too fat"
  2)If viewed in Preview window in CS from the back one can see that the parts of the legs are not completely connected.
  3)Their collision boxes are twice as large as the actual size of the creature (particularly noticable in Lord Dral's chamber).
  4)The Vermai's forwards running animation looks slightly 'anti-gravity', and 'slo-mo'.
  5)Also, when dead, parts of it's body just dissapear depending on how what angle the player looks at it.

[Lud]

I'm talking about things like some Dres screens and such. Just some various add-ons for the Velothi set so that it looks a bit more "Dres-y". Not a new set, just some retextured existing meshes and such. I'll show you what I mean when I give some Tear screenies. (This is minor stuff, I assure you )

[Haplo]

What? Screenshots of Tear? What's this? *perks up*

[Tyrion]

So the answer was (b), I was thinking of the wrong traingle things...

Anyway, since this is all going into map6 which isn't looking at being finished for a while yet then we've got plenty of time to add a few new pieces to make it look unique. I'd say if we're going to try and crank map6 out as fast as we can then just do everything in velothi, but if we're taking a leisurely approach than let's not skimp on anything.

[Nalin]

I'm talking about things like some Dres screens and such. Just some various add-ons for the Velothi set so that it looks a bit more "Dres-y". Not a new set, just some retextured existing meshes and such. I'll show you what I mean when I give some Tear screenies. (This is minor stuff, I assure you )

I'm working on something a little more bug-like for some unique dres architecture - inspired by the Redguard comic... I appreciate the many hours of work our exterior (and int) world builders do - but I think we really need to have more of a "we're-Dres-we-love-our-land-and-our-bugs" feel - screens will follow regardless.

[Nomadic1]

Some things the people rebuilding the Dres cities in Velothi style, as well as modders on other maps, will appreciate are simple meshes to cover the holes in the arses of the Velothi buildings. ATM we have to come up with some elaborate ways to add things like towers and manors in certain places, and a simple fix would be appreciated.

[xeth-ban]

There is a Dres banner done in the guarskin style in the TR_data file, the one with the image of some kind of bug on it. It can be found somewhere among the statis if memory serves correct.....

Where exactly can you find this redguard comic? i saw it mentioned on the Bethsoft front page a few time, but there didn't seem to be anything to click or anything

[El Scumbago]

Unless we're done replacing the dres with velothi, I'd be delighted to put my arse down and design a new set. Got some nice ideas already.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Being a greedy type (and having nothing to do with exterioring ), I too would love to see some proper Dres architecture, or atleast 'bits' that could be shoved on top of Velothi to make it look unique.

[theviking]

If you want to make a new Dres set, I would love it. It just has to be done in my opinion. After all, all the great houses have unique architecture. My suggestion is to begin with the standard velothi set and then begin to replace that. That is the only way this new set would work. After all the work that has been done on the dres cities, it would be better to do a simple search&replace than making them all over again, again.

Also don't forget the interiors, if the new set is going to be velothi-like, we can do with a replacement of the velothi tileset or the necrom tileset. If else these also have to be made. So the only solution for this problem is to make the Dres set velothi-like.

[El Scumbago]

Yes, I agree that the shapes should be close to Velothi so that we can use the same interior pieces, which we'll only need to retexture to match the exterior. Before I do anything though, I'd like to hear Ludovic's opinion on this as he's leading the Morrowind side of TR, and see if someone except of Fairwater and Advary would be interested in modelling the set. Perhaps Jellew, who's more of a Morrowind modder and has already proved he can model and texture.

[Lud]

As far as Dres goes, what I would like to have would be some modular extra pieces that we can use to distinguish Dres-velothi from places like Vivec and Blacklight. The idea I had was to use Nifskope to cut up some of TR's bug models and fashion these into overhangs, screens, blinds, etc to adorn the Velothi buldings. Adding a large set of uniquely coloured and distinct banners and hangings would really allow Dres stuff to stand out. The point here is that all of these could be added to towns that were already re-made as Velothi with minimum hassle.
If somebody would be so kind as to do as Nomadic suggested, (full house models) I would be eternally grateful; the Velothi set is a bit of a bitch to work with.

Xeth: [url=http://til.gamingsource.net/rgbooks/cyrus_index.shtml]The Origin of Cyrus[/url]
(This was the first look at Morrowind since Arena)

Haplo: Not quite at "pretty screenie" level yet, sorry. Give me a little while

Nalin: what exactly do you have planned? Perhaps you could work some of your ideas into the "add-ons" I was talking about. Either way, dying to see what you come up with. Alternatively, if we had soemthing that was akin to a Dres equivalent of shacks, we would be away with ourselves.

[blackbird]

How does the arena version of tear look like?

[xeth-ban]

As far as Dres goes, what I would like to have would be some modular extra pieces that we can use to distinguish Dres-velothi from places like Vivec and Blacklight. The idea I had was to use Nifskope to cut up some of TR's bug models and fashion these into overhangs, screens, blinds, etc to adorn the Velothi buldings. Adding a large set of uniquely coloured and distinct banners and hangings would really allow Dres stuff to stand out. The point here is that all of these could be added to towns that were already re-made as Velothi with minimum hassle.
If somebody would be so kind as to do as Nomadic suggested, (full house models) I would be eternally grateful; the Velothi set is a bit of a bitch to work with.

Xeth: [url=http://til.gamingsource.net/rgbooks/cyrus_index.shtml]The Origin of Cyrus[/url]
(This was the first look at Morrowind since Arena)

Haplo: Not quite at "pretty screenie" level yet, sorry. Give me a little while

Nalin: what exactly do you have planned? Perhaps you could work some of your ideas into the "add-ons" I was talking about. Either way, dying to see what you come up with. Alternatively, if we had soemthing that was akin to a Dres equivalent of shacks, we would be away with ourselves.

About the shacks, maybe they should be built out of bug carapace? i remember it being mentioned in an interview with various people, where a dunmer mocked the nords for taking pride in their wolf pelt decorations and stuff, and said that dunmer built whole houses out of their prey;bugs

Edit:what i was talking about is shown in the Redguard comic....Correct me if im wrong, but did they say that the small place with a couple of giant bug carapaces and a wooden wall was Tear? the whole comic is a bit chaotic, like all stuff written by MK

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

As far as Dres goes, what I would like to have would be some modular extra pieces that we can use to distinguish Dres-velothi from places like Vivec and Blacklight. The idea I had was to use Nifskope to cut up some of TR's bug models and fashion these into overhangs, screens, blinds, etc to adorn the Velothi buldings. Adding a large set of uniquely coloured and distinct banners and hangings would really allow Dres stuff to stand out. The point here is that all of these could be added to towns that were already re-made as Velothi with minimum hassle.

If we do it as Viking and Scumbago suggest, then the new buildings would share the 'footprint' etc. of the current Velothi ones, so that to update the cities it would just be a search and replace deal, rather than sticking bits on, so perhaps it would be even easier.

Of course, if we could get some truly distinctive 'bits' (so that it doesn't just look like "Velothi buildings with bugs hanging off") then that might be superior, as it would give more freedom to the exteriorers..

[Nalin]

Nalin: what exactly do you have planned? Perhaps you could work some of your ideas into the "add-ons" I was talking about. Either way, dying to see what you come up with. Alternatively, if we had soemthing that was akin to a Dres equivalent of shacks, we would be away with ourselves.

[url=http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresbuildingconceptll5.jpg][img]http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7821/dresbuildingconceptll5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Just a concept - no texture work applied.

Not exactly something to be stuck on the side of a velothi piece - I'm sure I can make some "add-ons" - give me a general feel and I'll start cutting up meshes and sticking them back together in interesting ways

Correct me if im wrong, but did they say that the small place with a couple of giant bug carapaces and a wooden wall was Tear?

It's a slave camp in Tear - it's not Tear itself (not the town centre)

[Jale]

Tear, I believe, has Vivec-esque Cantons, and there are nearby manors which have traditional roofs with eaves:

For several warm summer days in the year 3E 407, a young, pretty Dunmer woman in a veil regularly visited one of the master armorers in the city of Tear....

When the news came that Kemillith Torom, Peliah's husband-to-be, had been found outside of a canton, his head on a spike some feet away, she did not have to pretend to grieve. Her father knew she did not want to marry him.

Vision blurring, he climbed up to the eaves of the house to Peliah's window and rapped.

Ill get concepting.

Anyway here are a few drawings from the collectors book which are appropriate:

http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p18.jpg - perfect shrine of almalexia
http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p21.jpg -bottom bit could make a good dres manor house
http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p20.jpg - this became vivec, but would make cool Tear cantons too.

[xeth-ban]

Nalin;Thanks, they were never really clear about that(not that i noticed anyways)....MK's writing confuses me 90% of the time.

Jale:Hm, i always imagined Tear as a huge version of something Necrom like, with white architecture and stuff, don't ask me why....
"Dresified" cantons seems awesome though....

[Harke the Apostle]

http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p20.jpg - this became vivec, but would make cool Tear cantons too.

I always liked Molag Mar for having its public space outdoors, rather than having it inside like in the Vivec Cantons. This concept looks that way too. Access via bridges from canton to canton and the important buildings on the squares at the top of the cantons.

[kebra]

If some new meshes have to be created, i suggest to wait BL, because some new Int could be welcome even if not absolutely necessary.(I can PM the city with my old meshes and a really dirty file, if needed)

Agree with Lud and Nomadic1.
For Velothi we need also elements to hide the void of the meshes, things like planks, plain walls (each sides), plain balconies...

Also one or two elements could be a little bit retextured, i'm actually in a rush, but i will send BL then after, with a list of what's needed.(i can finish with what i have, that will come in more, an upgrade)

A lot of the Dress cities are (re)done or quite, if it's to rerestart the work, i WANT an absolute perfect, complete and varius set no less, or we will have to rererestart
again and again.

PS: look at Poha's work in the 6-26.

[xeth-ban]

Harke;The canton cities never made sense to me.....
Originaly, Vvardenfell was supposed to have ash storms everywhere, so the domed kind of canton kinda fit that, but they changed what seemed like their original plan, so why are they still domed? it make no sense....And why is Molag Mar, a city in an ash storm area, not protected in any good way against the ash? it never made sense....

[Tyrion]

Balsan Mar has been done multiple times, yes. Personally I think doing velothi replacements is going to be our best choice. These settlements have been done two or three times already, so if we're redoing their appearance again it should be as simple as possible, since the buildings are already in place.

This is not to say I don't think we should put some work into it. I think that if house Dres ends up all in velothi it will feel more like an extension of the Tribunal Temple, not a new great house. I always pictured Dres as being a cross between a Vivec Canton style city and the Redoran bug carapace dwellings, but better suited for the hot and humid enviroment. I'd like to see lots of opened aired spaces and rooftop sitting/lounge areas. Lots of windows, which is something you didnt see in Redoran architecture. If I knew how to draw I would draw what I have on my mind but....

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I think that if house Dres ends up all in velothi it will feel more like an extension of the Tribunal Temple, not a new great house.

That's indeed my biggest worry about using Velothi too, it will be hard to know what's Dres and what's not.

[Nalin]

I think that if house Dres ends up all in velothi it will feel more like an extension of the Tribunal Temple, not a new great house.

That's indeed my biggest worry about using Velothi too, it will be hard to know what's Dres and what's not.

A simple distinct colour scheme would solve that problem straight away - Not that i'm saying that's all we need. Dres colours (I imagine white buildings similar to the armour i made) and plenty of outdoor living spaces and bugshell adornments. I'm a big fan of the Vivec building concept with the ovalish balcony/room/windowthing on top - more like that would be awesome - I'll work on some and post screens when i can.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Sounds good. It doesn't have to be mindblowingly different, like you say, just different enough so I know when I'm in a Dres town, and when I'm in Ranyon-ruhn or Vos.

[Jale]

My take on it is that villages should be buggish, but cities should be like an interim between the stronghold construction style and the Velothi style...like the missing architectural link. Big slabby monoliths and so forth. This is what I doodled for Tear, and Im gonna go do a very very simple block model to get some interesting views of the cityscape and see if it works. This is all really exagerrated size-wise.

[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/Tear.png][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/th_Tear.png[/img][/url]

As far as a colour scheme goes, I would have thought a dark, muddy red would be appropriate. It would contrast nicely with the greenery, and look very dark and imposing. A nice earthy colour would also look slightly more primitive in construction...like a plaster daubed over the stonework of the strongholds.

This is in no means an alternative to the bugshape houses: both coexist.

[Lady Nerevar]

if we make dres houses basicaly the same (shape, size, etc.) as velothi ones we could do search and replace in the cities to make it more unique. a good retex would probably be best, and it would realy give the dres cities back some uniqueness (something that was lost with the set conversion)

[Tyrion]

What if we did a step-pyramid? Modeled after the Vivec cantons but it'll look a bit more like the tomb of Djoser (for those who don't know, Djoser is the third dynasty pharoh that built the first step-pyramid at Saqqara). Basically I'm thinking of a large terraced structure, maybe three or four steps each having open air markets/gardens/whatever on the terrace and typical Vivec canton interiors only redone to suit the Dres architecture. It would be a bit like the step pyramids of Mereen (Lady N knows what I mean)

[Lady Nerevar]

with or without blood stained bricks Tyr?

personaly, i think something along the lines of a step pyramid could look good, especialy with the described canton image.

[kebra]

Just retecture is a good option, with a little set of little architectural elements to make the buildings definitively uniques, things like windows, arches, doors, rails...
The cities already redone need the exact meshes.

I don't like the idea of a pyramid, modular meshes are more usefull.
PS: i can do a step pyramid with the actual set, even a rond step one.

[Nalin]

What if we did a step-pyramid? Modeled after the Vivec cantons but it'll look a bit more like the tomb of Djoser (for those who don't know, Djoser is the third dynasty pharoh that built the first step-pyramid at Saqqara). Basically I'm thinking of a large terraced structure, maybe three or four steps each having open air markets/gardens/whatever on the terrace and typical Vivec canton interiors only redone to suit the Dres architecture. It would be a bit like the step pyramids of Mereen (Lady N knows what I mean)

Are you going to model it? I know that sounds blunt - but I really thing that we shouldn't get too carried away with completely new models.

We have excelent "base meshes" just sitting around on the construction set CD waiting for us to take them and make them into what we want (at the same time assuring that we keep the same stylistic "flow" throughout the mod).

Recoloured Velothi with new addons really seems like the way forward for House Dres - It's possible to end up with them looking very unique and hardly noticable as just tweaked velothi at all.

It's not so hard to build cantons out of resized velothi pieces, so we could get some nice looking (Vivec concept art) open topped cantons going on.

@Jale - Not fond of the red "primitive looking" colour scheme for the "velothi" pieces - Dres are wealthy and "stuck up" primitive doesn't fit well with that.

[Jale]

Fuck velothi. I hate velothi. There is nothing interesting about it. And don't think of it as primitive, think of it as traditional. Its primitive to build stone houses in an age of brick, but people do anyway. Why? Traditional.

And yes If needs be I will help to model new architecture. The dres set needs at least a couple of unique pieces to make it look interesting.

Anyhoo heres a rubishy concept block model
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/Dres3.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/th_Dres3.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/Dres2.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/th_Dres2.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/Dres1.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Dark_Jale/th_Dres1.jpg[/img][/url]

Most of it is pretty fantastical (ie not reasonable), but these are elements I think we should keep:
- Caste-based segregation: Foreigners, nobles/clergy, middle class, lower class
- Large slab-cantons at different levels
-Location next to cliffs

[Tyrion]

with or without blood stained bricks Tyr?

Well some of the Dres nobility are rumored to be vampires...

And I never said we needed to make a whole new set... or maybe I did. Either way I think it's possible to make something unique and new and Dres looking (my pyramid for example) without redoing everything. As I said before that's not necassry, at least not for every Dres settlement.

[xeth-ban]

I must say i agree with Nalin on this, recolored velothi with new addons sounds good.

And i don't really like the idea of red brick Dres....Just doesn't seem, well Dres could probably fit in the smaller villages, or slave camps but not in a city i imagine as quite a glorious one; Tear

As for the monolith stuff Jale came up with, wasn't that part of the reason the previous Dres set got dropped? because some people for some reason thought that the buildings looked like spaceships and that kind of thing?

Speaking of the Old Dres set, i think that colour scheme would fit the Dres set quite well. Maybe mix in other elements from that one aswell?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Recoloured Velothi with new addons really seems like the way forward for House Dres - It's possible to end up with them looking very unique and hardly noticable as just tweaked velothi at all.

I agree, and as long as we get a couple of unique add-ons, for doors, arches and walls and things like that, then it'll look great.

In addition, similarity to Velothi can kinda be backed up by lore.

House Dres represents the past of pre-Tribunal Great House culture, a persistent tradition of Daedra- and ancestor-worshipping civilized Dunmer clans.

So if they're the most 'stuck in the past' (as it were) House, then having architecture very similar to that of their forebears seems fitting.



EDIT: On the subject of 'Models Needed', what about the Necrom architecture? Is that being worked on, or do we need it, because I believe that's one of the big delays in getting Map 2 to the beta release stage.