Assembling the Goldmoor Region (not quick and easy)

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:02 am

Post some screens.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:03 am

Here a some from the CS.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:25 am

Personally I would put a fair few shrub type plants out, and fewer trees. I know that to make it look like a true moor (just a carpet of shrubs, rocks and grasses) would be pretty dull, but as it is it looks unnatural. The trees are small, which implies there are harsh conditions, and yet there are so many?

My reckoning? Halve the trees, double the shrubs. Maybe not so drastic but I think that would look more believable.

Unless of course my perception of scale is off, and those are massive trees...in which case they are too big

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:52 pm

[img]http://www-markinfo.slu.se/sve/mark/ago/bilder/myr5m.jpg[/img]
http://www.fsnielsen.com/norske_fjell/images_full/finnsk_myr.htm

If weÃ‚Â´re looking for anything like this I would have to agree, more shrubs and grass please

I wouldnÃ‚Â´t want alot of stones, not small ones anyway as they would probably be engulfed.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:51 pm

Actually I can proudly say that it was my bitching and whining that got us a moor section, and it was originally intended to look something like this:

[img]http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7934/moorimdovrefjell3re.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.xente.mundo-r.com/dot/dartmoor.jpg[/img]

But obviously the 'carpet' effect of real moors is a bit dull-looking, especially with low-distance foliage, so some trees are needed.

Noir: really cool, just a few too many rocks for my tastes

at least...the tall pillar rocks should be sparser.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:56 pm

[url=http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081023122ye3.jpg][img]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5026/oblivion200706081023122ye3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081023254xl7.jpg][img]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4132/oblivion200706081023254xl7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img475.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081023525qq5.jpg][img]http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/8484/oblivion200706081023525qq5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081025163wa4.jpg][img]http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8219/oblivion200706081025163wa4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081025260xj2.jpg][img]http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4910/oblivion200706081025260xj2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081026373jh9.jpg][img]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2166/oblivion200706081026373jh9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=oblivion200706081027438ei3.jpg][img]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9812/oblivion200706081027438ei3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:38 pm

Indeed, looking good. If it was up to me I would prefer a retexture of the grass to a more yellow/brownish colour as in N's photo

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:40 pm

I agree. The lighter grasses are too 'florescent.' I will darken them down.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 pm

I agree with Jale, it seems a bit much with the rocks. I think that's only the case because of the same rock being used throughout the area. Later when we have more variation (I think we'll have more variation?) I'm sure it'll look normal and less uh... whatever word you would use there.

But it looks really good. The thumbnails at first glance reminded me of a finished map 1 screenshot thumb, so I'm glad to see that Goldmoor is that far along already

*propness*

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:44 pm

I'm going to say to many tors. other then that it is looking really good. its impressive how great it looks with only basic generation.

PS when can I have the file for screenshot taking? if I don't get it before the post I will use screens above (but I would prefer some w/o UI)

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:52 pm

Once we all like what I have, I will upload the file (as Map 8-Goldmoor) and will open up the exterior claims as well.

Just know that this is the entire GM region, with 3 subregions, which took me 32 hours to generate. I did a few test regions first to make sure it was close, and then went for it. I agree with all of the comments so far. So, I will make the changes, and proceed. But just know it's not 'simple' in the sense that it can be done in a day. I have to make the changes, test those changes, and then generate the region. All-in-all, it takes about 4 days straight of work (a good portion of the time spent just letting the CS do its thing).

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:03 pm

i totaly understand. i coudnt even get 4 cells generated, so i applaud your work

PS. why dont we have a thumbs up smilly?

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:16 pm

It is looking great.... i was thinking that it for some reason looks alittle too green still....bizarre..anyways i will agree with the tors seem alittle to plentiful.....and i will have to play around with the grass density things.......it doesnt look right but thats my fault!

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:18 pm

32h to complete only the generation thing?
My pc did less than 5 minuts for a 5*5 cell.
i think also that you're using extra rocks. I mean I have never seen those big rocks and maybe trees before.
Grass doesn't have to be generated, because some ground textures have grass.
@ Noirgrim: How do you make such formations of rocks in combination with textures? just luck?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:25 pm

blackbird wrote:32h to complete only the generation thing?
My pc did less than 5 minuts for a 5*5 cell.

You've been generating a lost less that what is displyed in the thumbs. If someone has better than a 2 gig, 4.2 ghz dual core, let me know, so they can generate it.

blackbird wrote: i think also that you're using extra rocks. I mean I have never seen those big rocks and maybe trees before.

Everything used here is part of the Goldmoor set in the OoT.esm file.

blackbird wrote: Grass doesn't have to be generated, because some ground textures have grass.

You're correct. But Fairwater is talking about the density settings on the 'terrain' objects, which is part of the OoT.esm.

blackbird wrote: @ Noirgrim: How do you make such formations of rocks in combination with textures? just luck?

By choosing a texture as a 'child' of the rock. Take a look at some of the OB regions as an example.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:29 pm

Thank you for explaining my questions.
Edit: How many cells were generated and how much is the mean of the objects in a cell?

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:48 pm

Ok part of me is thinking that we should actually leave tors out of the generation buisness and make them hand placed...... that way they will appear more logicly and we can tailor them to be awe inspiring.... what do you think?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:53 pm

At the moment, the entire region is based around the Tors. When each Tor is placed, smaller rocks are placed around it. Where ever the Tors are not, trees grow. Where the trees grow, the roots and ingred plants grow. Take away the Tors from the region generation... and I don't know where to go from there.

How about just making them more sparse, like suggested above?

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:55 pm

Bit more sparse, bit more variation...probably a little shorter anyway.

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:59 pm

that works we could still generate it with tors then maybe have them moved around and tweaked by the exterior modders....you know like for some reason i always picture them being generated more at the top of hills rather at the bottom

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:07 pm

That was something I was racking my brain over when doing the generation. How to get them on the tops of the hills, but not the bottoms. I can constrain their generation to a minimal slope ~0 to ~15 degrees, and I can generate them at a range of elevations. But we need a relative elevation (ie: hill to valley difference) which the CS has no idea how to do. If I generated them at the 'average' hill height, it just won't work.

They could always be deleted from the valleys after the fact I suppose. I want to get this as close as possible leaving minimal work for the detailers. Because they still need to add roads, and places of interest over roughly 350 cells (and we all know how many OB exterior modders we have [holds up 4 or 5 fingers]).

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:29 am

Does the Goldmoor region covers 350 cells? That's why it takes so long to generate.
Am I right when i say that 1 MW exterior cell has the same size of 4 obvlivion exterior cells?
What's a tor? a large stone?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:14 am

1 OB cells is the exact same size as 1 MW cell. People will argue that MW cells are larger, and they are just plain wrong.

You can see what a Tor is in the Goldmoor forum.

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:25 am

blackbird wrote: What's a tor? a large stone?

It's where hard, Igneous rocks like Granite have formed underground, and then the soft soil has been washed away. It looks like a huge pile of stones that is strangely geometrically broken...too neat.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:43 pm

Noirgrim wrote:1 OB cells is the exact same size as 1 MW cell. People will argue that MW cells are larger, and they are just plain wrong.

You can see what a Tor is in the Goldmoor forum.

But I thought that one MW cell is 8192 units and an OB cell is 4096 units.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:46 pm

Sure, but one MW unit does not equal 1 OB unit.

IAMTHEEMPEROR · Post by **IAMTHEEMPEROR** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:49 am

I'm pretty sure Morrowind units are the same size as Oblivion units. There have been several conversions between the two games, and everything was exactly the same coming out as it went in, whether it was objects or heightmaps, or heightmaps with objects on them. The only difference I've seen is that a Morrowind cell is 2x bigger than an Oblivion cell.

And after writing this do I realize stupid me ressurected a thread a month old because he's too tired to realize the difference between June and July

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:20 pm

wtf it's July already...?

Post by **Gnomey** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:43 am

IAMTHEEMPEROR wrote:I'm pretty sure Morrowind units are the same size as Oblivion units. There have been several conversions between the two games, and everything was exactly the same coming out as it went in, whether it was objects or heightmaps, or heightmaps with objects on them. The only difference I've seen is that a Morrowind cell is 2x bigger than an Oblivion cell.

That could work for cell size and unit size, and I think that unit size does make more sense. In the conversions, the Morrowind units are probably being directly converted to OB units, so that each units counts as double the amount that it should really count as. If that makes any sense.